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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 27 2012 02:10 Gondlem wrote:
As a jungler just starting to focus on ranked (1419 highest rating so far, so nothing high level), the massive walls of QQ every game are a huge issue for me. I find that in ranked, way more than in organised play with friends or in normal games, I spend a huge amount of time trying to help lanes because people are always asking for help or blaming me if they get behind. Consequently I get behind in cs/level compared to the lanes and enemy jungle, and if it's a longer game I become relatively useless, especially on champs like warwick where I don't normally buy gp10s.
For people who've successfully raised their ELO through jungling, is the best approach to just completely ignore what people say and focus on being decently farmed and only help lanes if they look gankable, or should I be spending my time trying to babysit lanes and hope they win and can carry the game?
Never ever listen to laners. If there's one thing laners are bad at, it's jungling. They have no idea when it's a good time to gank and whether the lane can be salvaged. If necessary /ignore all and try to concentrate on your own whether it's best to gank or farm. You know better than they do.
Laners should be able to play the entire game without a gank, generally you'll gank once or twice or more but if you camp one lane you can't gank other lanes because you'll fall too far behind and be screwed. You can't gank if you're too low level. Don't just try to gank every lane just to keep them happy. Also, try to warn them if you think their jungler will gank and its obvious to you. Some people think that the jungler might come but they won't change their play unless they get another opinion.
A sucessful gank is better than 3 failed ganks/brush camps and lets you farm WAY more. Coming at a bad time snowballs your jungle because not only do you still need to gank again to make it worthwhile you also lost jungle camp time for no reason.
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On February 26 2012 18:10 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 16:26 Zooper31 wrote:On February 26 2012 15:01 whatwhatanut wrote:On February 26 2012 14:18 HazMat wrote:On February 26 2012 14:13 whatwhatanut wrote:
I have a 995 elo account you can borrow. I don't understand how I earn 5 points for a 990 elo game when it was a full 5v5? How would I ever raise it? Must have been a loss forgiven win. Or someone duoed with a really high Elo so you won very little Elo. I don't know how it would be lf because there was no server issues at the time so it musta been that a high-elo duo quer. I feel like the system screws people who just want to improve their skill. Definitely needs to be some kind of kda ratio/xp or something. Cause I usually do well but I'm not quite good enuf to hard carry a team. I'm like just a guy who fits in and does his job but doesn't really shine beyond that. I agree with you man. I can carry alot of games if my team doesn't go full retard and feed every lane, but those are few and far between. Most games I do above average and win my lane, not enough to hyper carry of course all the time but just average imo. Thats why elo hell exists. If you're an average player, not feeding, not hyper-carrying, just doing your job correctly and holding your ground you will not rise in elo. You're simply in the hands of the 4 strangers on your team and hope that between them they don't collectively feed the game out of your hands. Odds are in solo Q that your team will feed and you will lose, it's simply a fact I've grown acustomed too over my 300games in ranked. Started ranked with no knowledge at lvl30, had a high of 1468 and a low of 900. I don't understand how a system can so consistently give you huge winning and losing streaks with no sign of them stopping. It's kinda like gambling, Q for ranked, hope for jackpot teamates and not dueces all around. Currently happy on a 6game win streak to put me within a win away of breaking my top rating. I have no expectations other than that my streak will end and at anytime I'll jump on a massive lose streak and tank 100-200pts in a week even if I never feed in any game. If you don't hyper carry, and just hold your lane, only going a few cs above or below your opponent then yes you are at the mercy of your allies. Chances are there are inconsistent allies on your team that play a style where they are overaggressive but mechanically sound so they may win some games and carry hard and some games feed really hard. You'll also get people who engage in 3v5's under tower after going 12-1 in lane. It's not that these guys are worse than you, it's that they're just more inconsistent. Yes I do feel like games are too much of a lottery with all the random dcers and troll leavers. Elo drops and rises with your rating and it feels like you're at a roulette table hoping to win your elo back. But overall the system is fair, if as you've stated, inconsistent.
Obviously any system that applies the same analytic to each player is fair. That says nothing about its accuracy, consistency, and is kind of a pointless statement. I don't think anyone complains that the system isn't the same for everyone. The big problem is that at low elos the inconsistency is exacerbated.
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Alright, thanks, both of you. That's sort of what I've been trying to do, and I definitely notice that if the opposing jungler tries to gank a lot and fails, I can have a pretty big influence on the game with my superior farm. The problem is when they are repeatedly successful because of poor play in the lane and get ahead of me that way, which is out of my hands I guess, and the complaining from my team about not ganking a lot. Seems like all the games I lose when I'm trying to focus on farming a decent amount someone will lose their lane hard and repeatedly die and then blame me.
In fact, even when you do gank a lot, there will always be a lane that gets less attention and complains about it. I guess it's just a symptom of being low ELO, and I have to learn to ignore it until people realise my job isn't to carry every lane.
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On February 27 2012 02:28 Gondlem wrote:
Alright, thanks. That's sort of what I've been trying to do, and I definitely notice that if the opposing jungler tries to gank a lot and fails, I can have a pretty big influence on the game with my superior farm. The problem is when they are repeatedly successful because of poor play in the lane and get ahead of me that way, which is out of my hands I guess, and the complaining from my team about not ganking a lot. Seems like all the games I lose when I'm trying to focus on farming a decent amount someone will lose their lane hard and repeatedly die and then blame me.
In fact, even when you do gank a lot, there will always be a lane that gets less attention and complains about it. I guess it's just a symptom of being low ELO, and I have to learn to ignore it until people realise my job isn't to carry every lane.
Its not a symptom of low elo. It happens at high elo all the fucking time. People are just bad and assume that they are the only lane in the game.
For most laners, a gank consists of ~15 seconds of lost farm. For the jungle, a gank is usually more than 1 minute. And no laner is actually capable of understanding that.
The best is when you get lanes who pull the "oh but the enemy jungle ganked me 3 times! You havent come once!" And no amount of explaining will get it through their heads that you have a level and 30 cs on the enemy because you didnt waste time.
But then they invariably start to die because they dont ward, then they KEEP blaming you. Its at this point you should REALLY stop listening because even if you HAD ganked for them, they would have still thrown the lead away because they just suck.
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Tried Battleraka today with DCap, Abyss and WotA. Sadly it was a bit underwhelming and not as cool as I thought it'd be.
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You're concentrating too much on what people say, and what's actually happening. If their jungler is ganking the same lane consistently then you have to think about ganking because most likely it will be pushed and the laner who got ganks will play more aggressive, meaning you have a chance to stop the lane snowballing completely. If they still push and die you can't do anything, but just keep an open mind. If their jungler gets sucessful ganks good on him, you have to accept that he got those sucessful ganks and not just write off your laners as bad.
AP soraka is really bad IMO. Her ratios are really bad. If you want to go "battle soraka" you just go full tank and cdr. Randuins/Shurelyas/Rylais/FoN. That kind of stuff. You have max CDR and spam Q in fights reducing MR, healing, and consistently outputting damage while being unkillable.
At the end of the day if you see an opportunity for a good gank that has a high chance of a kill it's probably worth going for it. One gank can snowball the lane for the rest of the game, and it lets you farm more in the long run. It's mostly a game of risk+reward. Their jungler ganking doesn't have much to do with you unless you should predict and countergank, but it chances the laning dynamic which can open gank opportunities.
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On February 27 2012 02:42 Slayer91 wrote:
You're concentrating too much on what people say, and what's actually happening. If their jungler is ganking the same lane consistently then you have to think about ganking because most likely it will be pushed and the laner who got ganks will play more aggressive, meaning you have a chance to stop the lane snowballing completely. If they still push and die you can't do anything, but just keep an open mind. If their jungler gets sucessful ganks good on him, you have to accept that he got those sucessful ganks and not just write off your laners as bad.
Sometimes I try to think that, then my teammate starts talking. And that usually shuts down that train of thought pretty hard.
But ya, I do generally try to at least look for a gank to see if I can get them back into the game. But normally it just isnt worth it. Too much time that could be spent elsewhere for greater gains.
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On February 27 2012 02:42 Slayer91 wrote:
AP soraka is really bad IMO. Her ratios are really bad. If you want to go "battle soraka" you just go full tank and cdr. Randuins/Shurelyas/Rylais/FoN. That kind of stuff. You have max CDR and spam Q in fights reducing MR, healing, and consistently outputting damage while being unkillable.
Sounds like an idea, I'll give it a go =D
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On February 27 2012 02:10 Gondlem wrote:
As a jungler just starting to focus on ranked (1419 highest rating so far, so nothing high level), the massive walls of QQ every game are a huge issue for me. I find that in ranked, way more than in organised play with friends or in normal games, I spend a huge amount of time trying to help lanes because people are always asking for help or blaming me if they get behind. Consequently I get behind in cs/level compared to the lanes and enemy jungle, and if it's a longer game I become relatively useless, especially on champs like warwick where I don't normally buy gp10s.
For people who've successfully raised their ELO through jungling, is the best approach to just completely ignore what people say and focus on being decently farmed and only help lanes if they look gankable, or should I be spending my time trying to babysit lanes and hope they win and can carry the game?
Eventually you learn when and how to gank lanes to get the best results. You have to gauge whether ganking when someone wants one will actually amount to anything and if your time is better spent elsewhere rather than just blindly agreeing.
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id say the first thing to learn about ganking is when the lane is a no hope situation, if the guy is 0-2/3 in the first few minutes, soon he wont actually be worth any gold when he dies, but if you get him a kill he will be worth even more gold when he dies some more.
or even worse, the guy hes against might be so fed and powerful that the gank results in a reverse double kill. some lanes you just have to let die, if you can focus the other lanes then maybe you can cause your other team members to get fed up enough to win the game.
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A quick question on Soraka's q actually. Is the times on the mres shred refreshed with every stack? Cause even with max cdr it'd only possible to stack 6 times within the shred's 8 sec duration.
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yes it refreshes the debuff
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On February 27 2012 03:03 midnight.tokyo wrote:
A quick question on Soraka's q actually. Is the times on the mres shred refreshed with every stack? Cause even with max cdr it'd only possible to stack 6 times within the shred's 8 sec duration.
yes
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On February 27 2012 02:42 Slayer91 wrote:
You're concentrating too much on what people say, and what's actually happening. If their jungler is ganking the same lane consistently then you have to think about ganking because most likely it will be pushed and the laner who got ganks will play more aggressive, meaning you have a chance to stop the lane snowballing completely. If they still push and die you can't do anything, but just keep an open mind. If their jungler gets sucessful ganks good on him, you have to accept that he got those sucessful ganks and not just write off your laners as bad.
AP soraka is really bad IMO. Her ratios are really bad. If you want to go "battle soraka" you just go full tank and cdr. Randuins/Shurelyas/Rylais/FoN. That kind of stuff. You have max CDR and spam Q in fights reducing MR, healing, and consistently outputting damage while being unkillable.
At the end of the day if you see an opportunity for a good gank that has a high chance of a kill it's probably worth going for it. One gank can snowball the lane for the rest of the game, and it lets you farm more in the long run. It's mostly a game of risk+reward. Their jungler ganking doesn't have much to do with you unless you should predict and countergank, but it chances the laning dynamic which can open gank opportunities.
The main problem is that some people don't understand how ganking works. If someone gets killed in lane and then pushes immediatly out again... there is no hope. Just ignore them. Help a lane that can be salvaged and pray that come midgame, they didn't feed too hard. Trying to gank a pushed lane will just set you further behind.
EDIT: Oh and instead of ganking, drop a ward for them. It actually helps sometimes.
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On February 27 2012 02:46 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 02:42 Slayer91 wrote:
You're concentrating too much on what people say, and what's actually happening. If their jungler is ganking the same lane consistently then you have to think about ganking because most likely it will be pushed and the laner who got ganks will play more aggressive, meaning you have a chance to stop the lane snowballing completely. If they still push and die you can't do anything, but just keep an open mind. If their jungler gets sucessful ganks good on him, you have to accept that he got those sucessful ganks and not just write off your laners as bad. Sometimes I try to think that, then my teammate starts talking. And that usually shuts down that train of thought pretty hard. But ya, I do generally try to at least look for a gank to see if I can get them back into the game. But normally it just isnt worth it. Too much time that could be spent elsewhere for greater gains.
Well, it doesn't matter if your laner is bad or not, you're stuck with him for the next 30 minutes so you have to make the best of it.
Anyway, it's not just a matter of getting him back in the game, it might just be a free kill giving you some nice gold and also stopping hmi snowballing and roaming later on. Also, if the laner has to b you have like 2 free waves of cs as well as a kill :3
Just dont get double killed, but if you farm a lot and only gank on full hp, this should never happen.
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On February 27 2012 04:27 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 02:46 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 02:42 Slayer91 wrote:
You're concentrating too much on what people say, and what's actually happening. If their jungler is ganking the same lane consistently then you have to think about ganking because most likely it will be pushed and the laner who got ganks will play more aggressive, meaning you have a chance to stop the lane snowballing completely. If they still push and die you can't do anything, but just keep an open mind. If their jungler gets sucessful ganks good on him, you have to accept that he got those sucessful ganks and not just write off your laners as bad. Sometimes I try to think that, then my teammate starts talking. And that usually shuts down that train of thought pretty hard. But ya, I do generally try to at least look for a gank to see if I can get them back into the game. But normally it just isnt worth it. Too much time that could be spent elsewhere for greater gains. Well, it doesn't matter if your laner is bad or not, you're stuck with him for the next 30 minutes so you have to make the best of it. Anyway, it's not just a matter of getting him back in the game, it might just be a free kill giving you some nice gold and also stopping hmi snowballing and roaming later on. Also, if the laner has to b you have like 2 free waves of cs as well as a kill :3 Just dont get double killed, but if you farm a lot and only gank on full hp, this should never happen.
Depends. Ganking a cassio having a strong edge on her lane (2 kills) is really dangerous as hell. Ganking a LB or an Orianna in the same case isn't as dangerous.
But seriously, I've seen SO MUCH Cassio get double kills on ganks when they get ahead it's gross. Once, Ocelote go a double kill at lvl5 when ganked, against a decent team (can't remember which one).
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On February 27 2012 04:43 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:27 Slayer91 wrote:On February 27 2012 02:46 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 02:42 Slayer91 wrote:
You're concentrating too much on what people say, and what's actually happening. If their jungler is ganking the same lane consistently then you have to think about ganking because most likely it will be pushed and the laner who got ganks will play more aggressive, meaning you have a chance to stop the lane snowballing completely. If they still push and die you can't do anything, but just keep an open mind. If their jungler gets sucessful ganks good on him, you have to accept that he got those sucessful ganks and not just write off your laners as bad. Sometimes I try to think that, then my teammate starts talking. And that usually shuts down that train of thought pretty hard. But ya, I do generally try to at least look for a gank to see if I can get them back into the game. But normally it just isnt worth it. Too much time that could be spent elsewhere for greater gains. Well, it doesn't matter if your laner is bad or not, you're stuck with him for the next 30 minutes so you have to make the best of it. Anyway, it's not just a matter of getting him back in the game, it might just be a free kill giving you some nice gold and also stopping hmi snowballing and roaming later on. Also, if the laner has to b you have like 2 free waves of cs as well as a kill :3 Just dont get double killed, but if you farm a lot and only gank on full hp, this should never happen. Depends. Ganking a cassio having a strong edge on her lane (2 kills) is really dangerous as hell. Ganking a LB or an Orianna in the same case isn't as dangerous. But seriously, I've seen SO MUCH Cassio get double kills on ganks when they get ahead it's gross. Once, Ocelote go a double kill at lvl5 when ganked, against a decent team (can't remember which one).
He was lvl 2 and it was TSM.
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Been playing around with Lux on the PBE. The buffs aren't game-changing, but they're definitely fun utility changes. Using E for utility purposes (vision and covering retreat paths) is now a much safer move; you'll have it back up in another 3 seconds and can hence perpetually slow chasing enemies with some CDR (from a rather safe distance). The "vision on travel" was also a lot more helpful than I thought it'd be. Even if they're right on the E, you still gain vision of them about half a second faster (nevermind if you threw it right over them). Vision on the Laser is a nice touch, though more or less cosmetic.
I really hope jiji or Salce pick up Lux. Then I can finally ask for Lux Mid without having to argue with my team half the time.
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On February 27 2012 05:13 ManyCookies wrote:
Been playing around with Lux on the PBE. The buffs aren't game-changing, but they're definitely fun utility changes. Using E for utility purposes (vision and covering retreat paths) is now a much safer move; you'll have it back up in another 3 seconds and can hence perpetually slow chasing enemies with some CDR (from a rather safe distance). The "vision on travel" was also a lot more helpful than I thought it'd be. Even if they're right on the E, you still gain vision of them about half a second faster (nevermind if you threw it right over them). Vision on the Laser is a nice touch, though more or less cosmetic.
I really hope jiji or Salce pick up Lux. Then I can finally ask for Lux Mid without having to argue with my team half the time.
Just ask mid then lock lux and just play, no reason to argue with them unless it's blind pick.
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@slayer91 can you post some of your udyr replays please? I'm trying to get good at him but I'm just really bad at optimizing my own farm, as well as playing out teamfights correctly. it would really helpful to see a good player in action.
Also, can we just have a replays thread? People like smash and teut can post some of their good replays of their mains and stuff. Could be a really good resource in addition to all the champion threads.
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EPT
