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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 26 2012 16:32 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
its not the system. In starcraft you're all alone so the outcome of your game is your own sole responsibility. In league you have 4 others on your team; 5 on the opposite team.
Match-making can only account for the numerical mathematical algorithms. It can't take in account when one of your teammate decides to derp/feed/disconnect, is having a bad game, feels like being a douche whatever.
What everyone who bitches about elo hell doesn't understand is this:
Assuming each game has one guy who goes batshit insane (which is an overstatement anyway) this is what happens:
Long term YOUR team will have 4/5 games with baddies, feeders and afkers while the ENEMY team will have 5/5 of those.
IF you are not one of those guys, this statement will be true for every single person at every possible elo under every possible circumstance.
The type of games which are incredibly one sided have NO influence on your elo since it's, to use poker terms, a WA/WB (way ahead/way behind) situation whenever any person on any team is much worse than the rest of their team. Why? Because they happen just as often, actually 20% MORE often for the enemy team than for your team.
Anyone who denies that is a fool who has no basic grasp of math and should be punished with 3 hours of teemo taunts and jokes.
The trick if you want to gain elo is to be able to distinguish which games are WA/WB and not worry too much about them and to focus on the only variable you have influence over instead of all the ones you have no influence over: Yourself.
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Well to behonest everyone in my team or opposing team who's been whining about elo hell has actually played really poorly themselves, so yeah indeed it seems like an excuse.
However it can sometimes be pretty difficult to see why you lose and what you yourself could have done differently. When you start the game 9-0 and then get caught giving the enemy team baron, you basically lost your team the game despite going 9-0. This is extremely difficult for most people to grasp, and stupid decisions later on in the game, even if you always do well early on, can make you lose games that you should have won, and it indeed ends up with you not knowing what you did wrong and you're going to be blaming your team despite going like 8-0 or 10-1 to begin with, while losing indeed was your fault.
There's also the leadership and warding factor. Most of the time you can make your team ward the good spots if you just ask them to, and then if you look at the minimap you can ping it for them if they don't see it. This reduces the amount of ganks your entire team suffers, and tends to be something you yourself have at least some control over.
Then there's timing buffs and wards. If you don't ever do it, the enemy team has a 20% higher chance of having someone do this. However, if you yourself make a habit of always timing them, your team suddenly has a 100% chance of having someone do that, while the enemy team plenty of the time won't have anyone. Then if you use the chat to organize buff steals(not everyone will comply but some will), you might be able to snowball the game in your favor with such a small thing, that really has nothing to do with your core skill.
Another thing to realize is that people are going to rage alot in solo queue. You can turn a losing game into a victory if you just decide to bully someone who you deem the weakest person in their team. Even if it's very inconsequential that their solo top is going 0-5 when the mid and bot are both decimating your team, it can make the enemy team start raging and flaming and playing worse themselves, giving them poor morale and so on. You can assist this by taunting them in the all-chat in such a way that makes them realize how poorly that player is doing but so that it still isn't super obvious you are just trying to make them mad.
Then again I have no idea how solo queue works because I tend to lose when I try to win and win when I try to lose. However if you think of LoL as poker in a way, these are all positive EV plays. Another thing you can do to just boost your personal skill is to just play 1v0 with the champion you play in the lane you play, and just practice lasthitting. Getting 100 lasthits by 10min is as far as I know perfect, so if you can get like 90-95 or so 10 times in a row with no +AD from items or masteries and only using basic attacks, you're probably well-suited to outfarming every lane and skyrocketing to at least 1500 elo even if you're like sub 1k to begin with, and almost solely by lasthitting. (It's surprising what you can get away with when you have 4 finished items and the opposing team has 1-2)
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On February 26 2012 21:07 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 16:32 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
its not the system. In starcraft you're all alone so the outcome of your game is your own sole responsibility. In league you have 4 others on your team; 5 on the opposite team.
Match-making can only account for the numerical mathematical algorithms. It can't take in account when one of your teammate decides to derp/feed/disconnect, is having a bad game, feels like being a douche whatever. What everyone who bitches about elo hell doesn't understand is this: Assuming each game has one guy who goes batshit insane (which is an overstatement anyway) this is what happens: Long term YOUR team will have 4/5 games with baddies, feeders and afkers while the ENEMY team will have 5/5 of those. IF you are not one of those guys, this statement will be true for every single person at every possible elo under every possible circumstance. The type of games which are incredibly one sided have NO influence on your elo since it's, to use poker terms, a WA/WB (way ahead/way behind) situation whenever any person on any team is much worse than the rest of their team. Why? Because they happen just as often, actually 20% MORE often for the enemy team than for your team. Anyone who denies that is a fool who has no basic grasp of math and should be punished with 3 hours of teemo taunts and jokes. The trick if you want to gain elo is to be able to distinguish which games are WA/WB and not worry too much about them and to focus on the only variable you have influence over instead of all the ones you have no influence over: Yourself.
Great post.
I'd add 6 hours of lux laugh to the punishment though. The severity of the issue should not be underestimated.
When I started playing ranked I blamed my team for a loss as the standard response. Now that I look at my own mistakes before I look at others', I'm slowly but steadily climbing the ladder. Feels good mang.
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On February 26 2012 21:51 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 21:07 r.Evo wrote:On February 26 2012 16:32 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
its not the system. In starcraft you're all alone so the outcome of your game is your own sole responsibility. In league you have 4 others on your team; 5 on the opposite team.
Match-making can only account for the numerical mathematical algorithms. It can't take in account when one of your teammate decides to derp/feed/disconnect, is having a bad game, feels like being a douche whatever. What everyone who bitches about elo hell doesn't understand is this: Assuming each game has one guy who goes batshit insane (which is an overstatement anyway) this is what happens: Long term YOUR team will have 4/5 games with baddies, feeders and afkers while the ENEMY team will have 5/5 of those. IF you are not one of those guys, this statement will be true for every single person at every possible elo under every possible circumstance. The type of games which are incredibly one sided have NO influence on your elo since it's, to use poker terms, a WA/WB (way ahead/way behind) situation whenever any person on any team is much worse than the rest of their team. Why? Because they happen just as often, actually 20% MORE often for the enemy team than for your team. Anyone who denies that is a fool who has no basic grasp of math and should be punished with 3 hours of teemo taunts and jokes. The trick if you want to gain elo is to be able to distinguish which games are WA/WB and not worry too much about them and to focus on the only variable you have influence over instead of all the ones you have no influence over: Yourself. Great post. I'd add 6 hours of lux laugh to the punishment though. The severity of the issue should not be underestimated. When I started playing ranked I blamed my team for a loss as the standard response. Now that I look at my own mistakes before I look at others', I'm slowly but steadily climbing the ladder. Feels good mang.
Hey, I didn't say that what you need to gain elo is the same as what you need to improve your own game. =P
To gain elo all you have to do ANYTHING POSSIBLE to play stronger than your current level. If you do that all of the above applies and you will gain elo until you reach a level where you can't keep up anymore.
To improve your game it is sometimes necessary to put yourself into situations with a negative EV (expected value) when it comes to your elo.
If my junglers are 1500 elo on average, however my Udyr at 1200 elo but my Maokai at 1800 then whenever I decide to play Udyr I'm making a conscious decision to NOT work on gaining elo but to gain more skill/experience with a certain champion.
If I'm in a 1500 average game, pick Udyr, lose and then bitch about how unfair the game is I'm retarded. After all, at that moment I'm one of the guys who perform below average and drag the team down.
...basicly ANY conscious decision to not play your strongest champs is a conscious decision to not work on your elo right now right here but to look for longterm improvement.
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Òr you could be a 2300 udyr player and only play udyr because you wanna be a 2500 udyr player :3
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On February 26 2012 22:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Òr you could be a 2300 udyr player and only play udyr because you wanna be a 2500 udyr player :3
<3
WAIT WHAT YOU HIT 2.3k.
grats. =D
Edit: You better post a screenshot of that matchhistory somewhere, sexy upswing. =P
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I got kinda carried I can post a couple replays was pretty pleased with my irelia play.
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Im more curious about that Gunblade Maokai game...
Reppack of the last 10 games gogo.
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I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs.
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On February 26 2012 23:01 Slayer91 wrote:
I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs.
It's k, I was attention whoring for you cause you never do it but 2.3k is definitely something to be proud of. <3
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Im confused. I was sort of pretty sick yesterday. Why did I get dragged into the elo hell argument? I'm assuming it was an T_D is terrible joke, which im all for, I just dont get it. Still post sick stupidity I guess.
I WANNA LAUGH AT MYSELF TOOOOOOO
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On February 26 2012 23:01 Slayer91 wrote:
I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs.
No reason until you're playing in a competitive team(Or especially if playing with just a semicasual team with your buddies and youre the best player by far) and then get banned out
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On February 26 2012 21:07 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 16:32 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
its not the system. In starcraft you're all alone so the outcome of your game is your own sole responsibility. In league you have 4 others on your team; 5 on the opposite team.
Match-making can only account for the numerical mathematical algorithms. It can't take in account when one of your teammate decides to derp/feed/disconnect, is having a bad game, feels like being a douche whatever. What everyone who bitches about elo hell doesn't understand is this: Assuming each game has one guy who goes batshit insane (which is an overstatement anyway) this is what happens: Long term YOUR team will have 4/5 games with baddies, feeders and afkers while the ENEMY team will have 5/5 of those. IF you are not one of those guys, this statement will be true for every single person at every possible elo under every possible circumstance. The type of games which are incredibly one sided have NO influence on your elo since it's, to use poker terms, a WA/WB (way ahead/way behind) situation whenever any person on any team is much worse than the rest of their team. Why? Because they happen just as often, actually 20% MORE often for the enemy team than for your team. Anyone who denies that is a fool who has no basic grasp of math and should be punished with 3 hours of teemo taunts and jokes. The trick if you want to gain elo is to be able to distinguish which games are WA/WB and not worry too much about them and to focus on the only variable you have influence over instead of all the ones you have no influence over: Yourself.
You also have to admit that this is true only for very high amounts of games.
If you have the skills to have a 60% win ratio, going 50/50 on 100 matches is statistically coherent.
You literally need to play hundreds of matches to be well placed in LoL.
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On February 26 2012 23:26 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 21:07 r.Evo wrote:On February 26 2012 16:32 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
its not the system. In starcraft you're all alone so the outcome of your game is your own sole responsibility. In league you have 4 others on your team; 5 on the opposite team.
Match-making can only account for the numerical mathematical algorithms. It can't take in account when one of your teammate decides to derp/feed/disconnect, is having a bad game, feels like being a douche whatever. What everyone who bitches about elo hell doesn't understand is this: Assuming each game has one guy who goes batshit insane (which is an overstatement anyway) this is what happens: Long term YOUR team will have 4/5 games with baddies, feeders and afkers while the ENEMY team will have 5/5 of those. IF you are not one of those guys, this statement will be true for every single person at every possible elo under every possible circumstance. The type of games which are incredibly one sided have NO influence on your elo since it's, to use poker terms, a WA/WB (way ahead/way behind) situation whenever any person on any team is much worse than the rest of their team. Why? Because they happen just as often, actually 20% MORE often for the enemy team than for your team. Anyone who denies that is a fool who has no basic grasp of math and should be punished with 3 hours of teemo taunts and jokes. The trick if you want to gain elo is to be able to distinguish which games are WA/WB and not worry too much about them and to focus on the only variable you have influence over instead of all the ones you have no influence over: Yourself. You also have to admit that this is true only for very high amounts of games. If you have the skills to have a 60% win ratio, going 50/50 on 100 matches is statistically coherent. You literally need to play hundreds of matches to be well placed in LoL.
Yeah agree. There are so many variables that the variance is kinda hard to grasp for most people.
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On February 26 2012 23:20 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 23:01 Slayer91 wrote:
I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs. No reason until you're playing in a competitive team(Or especially if playing with just a semicasual team with your buddies and youre the best player by far) and then get banned out
Difference is getting a high level on 1 champ makes your off champs better by default so you don't need to train them as hard.
Every time you play a new champ you have to process all the intricacies of the new champ as well as of play in general so it's a less efficient improvement method. Also you have to have different playstyles for champs so it means you don't know when certani styles are working or certain champs are working for you.
For example, flash is probably an extremely high level zerg player, probably better than any foreign player ever but he got to his level by only playing terran and practicing offraces minimally.
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On February 26 2012 23:36 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 23:20 Shikyo wrote:On February 26 2012 23:01 Slayer91 wrote:
I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs. No reason until you're playing in a competitive team(Or especially if playing with just a semicasual team with your buddies and youre the best player by far) and then get banned out Difference is getting a high level on 1 champ makes your off champs better by default so you don't need to train them as hard. Every time you play a new champ you have to process all the intricacies of the new champ as well as of play in general so it's a less efficient improvement method. Also you have to have different playstyles for champs so it means you don't know when certani styles are working or certain champs are working for you. For example, flash is probably an extremely high level zerg player, probably better than any foreign player ever but he got to his level by only playing terran and practicing offraces minimally.
SC2 has 3 races.
LoL has close to 100 heroes.
Believe me, if you're awesome with Ryze, it won't make good with Cassio :p
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On February 26 2012 22:23 r.Evo wrote:
To gain elo all you have to do ANYTHING POSSIBLE to play stronger than your current level. If you do that all of the above applies and you will gain elo until you reach a level where you can't keep up anymore.
Or you make your allies play better than they usually would and get them to carry you (the how-to-carry-as-support). Chat is OP.
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On February 27 2012 00:32 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 23:36 Slayer91 wrote:On February 26 2012 23:20 Shikyo wrote:On February 26 2012 23:01 Slayer91 wrote:
I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs. No reason until you're playing in a competitive team(Or especially if playing with just a semicasual team with your buddies and youre the best player by far) and then get banned out Difference is getting a high level on 1 champ makes your off champs better by default so you don't need to train them as hard. Every time you play a new champ you have to process all the intricacies of the new champ as well as of play in general so it's a less efficient improvement method. Also you have to have different playstyles for champs so it means you don't know when certani styles are working or certain champs are working for you. For example, flash is probably an extremely high level zerg player, probably better than any foreign player ever but he got to his level by only playing terran and practicing offraces minimally. Believe me, if you're awesome with Ryze, it won't make good with Cassio :p
Eh, Cass is just ryze with double the range and half the tanky
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On February 27 2012 00:39 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 00:32 mr_tolkien wrote:On February 26 2012 23:36 Slayer91 wrote:On February 26 2012 23:20 Shikyo wrote:On February 26 2012 23:01 Slayer91 wrote:
I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs. No reason until you're playing in a competitive team(Or especially if playing with just a semicasual team with your buddies and youre the best player by far) and then get banned out Difference is getting a high level on 1 champ makes your off champs better by default so you don't need to train them as hard. Every time you play a new champ you have to process all the intricacies of the new champ as well as of play in general so it's a less efficient improvement method. Also you have to have different playstyles for champs so it means you don't know when certani styles are working or certain champs are working for you. For example, flash is probably an extremely high level zerg player, probably better than any foreign player ever but he got to his level by only playing terran and practicing offraces minimally. Believe me, if you're awesome with Ryze, it won't make good with Cassio :p Eh, Cass is just ryze with double the range and half the tanky
Cass is all skillshot, ryze is all faceshot, if you play an awesome ryze then you should be able to play a good cass, if not, your ryze clearly isn't awesome.
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On February 27 2012 00:32 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 23:36 Slayer91 wrote:On February 26 2012 23:20 Shikyo wrote:On February 26 2012 23:01 Slayer91 wrote:
I have the replays, there were 4 ranked 5's on a new team so I trolled those games but the other ones are legit I sort out a writeup in the ierlia and udyr threads in you like but I'm playing go4troll atm.
I wasn't trying to attention whore btw, I don't see the reason of trying to improve champs 1 by 1 when you can just play the most fun one and concentrate on that, that way you don't have to constantly relearn the role for different champs. No reason until you're playing in a competitive team(Or especially if playing with just a semicasual team with your buddies and youre the best player by far) and then get banned out Difference is getting a high level on 1 champ makes your off champs better by default so you don't need to train them as hard. Every time you play a new champ you have to process all the intricacies of the new champ as well as of play in general so it's a less efficient improvement method. Also you have to have different playstyles for champs so it means you don't know when certani styles are working or certain champs are working for you. For example, flash is probably an extremely high level zerg player, probably better than any foreign player ever but he got to his level by only playing terran and practicing offraces minimally. SC2 has 3 races. LoL has close to 100 heroes. Believe me, if you're awesome with Ryze, it won't make good with Cassio :p
Does Flash really play SC2? (stopped following the SC1 scene like a year ago)
It's way easier to switch champs in LOL than to switch races in SC.
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EPT
