[Patch 1.0.0.133: Ziggs] General Discussion - Page 23

On February 02 2012 17:33 Ryuu314 wrote:
I don't think Jax is OP at all. I think he's still underwhelming. Sure he can do tons of damage, but his laning is weak as hell and he still requires a shitton of farm to get the ball rolling. I honestly don't see him being all that strong/viable in competitive play especially since the metagame is pretty geared towards early-mid game domination.

On February 02 2012 18:43 locodoco wrote:
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=122786&db=issue
interviewed by fomos :D

On February 02 2012 18:44 Alaric wrote:
I never understood the chalice or clarity on Morgana. If you pay enough attention to your mana, runes and masteries are enough to me (scaling mp5 yellows). Come level 4-5, I'd need to cast a lot of exceed Q/W to go oom. Although it's tricky if I'm already low and my opponent tries to make me spend more, because the balance isn't too positive.

On February 02 2012 18:39 mr_tolkien wrote:

I think people with Jax still think you need to build damage to melt faces. Once they'll get that you don't need this at ALL, Jax will be perma ban status.

On February 02 2012 18:41 starfries wrote:
Maybe it works on Morgana, but I'd never get it on Ryze. You need to rush tears so you can charge it, and tears gives Ryze enough mana to work with anyways, although he really needs blue to charge it quickly. But I'd much rather conserve my mana and charge tears slowly than have a chalice and nothing to use my mana on.

On February 02 2012 18:44 Alaric wrote:
I never understood the chalice or clarity on Morgana. If you pay enough attention to your mana, runes and masteries are enough to me (scaling mp5 yellows). Come level 4-5, I'd need to cast a lot of exceed Q/W to go oom. Although it's tricky if I'm already low and my opponent tries to make me spend more, because the balance isn't too positive.

Edit: now that's frustrating, most of us can't read korean.

On February 02 2012 18:50 starfries wrote:

He still does get abused in lane early on though because of the long cd on his E and I don't think that will change. You have to be really clever about when you use it or people will bait it out and then destroy you while it's down. Once you hit 7ish you become really scary and you can chunk people hard enough that they won't even want to eat a single E so the cooldown doesn't matter too much anymore. But he does have weak matchups (more so than say, Irelia or GP) so I think that will keep him down.

On February 02 2012 18:43 locodoco wrote:
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=122786&db=issue
interviewed by fomos :D

On February 02 2012 19:07 Mondieu wrote:
How can you be succesful in outpicking Ziggs from other players ? Like when I click "Play now" to go to the character selection screen there's already a ziggs selected ! How can I do it so I pick faster myself?

On February 02 2012 18:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I'm the only one I know that rushes chalice on morg so it may not be right, but I find that if I ever try to harass my opponent with 2 Q/W combos (eg when they are in that narrow section by the tower/ trying to engage on me) I immediately have to be more careful with my mana usage. It's completely possible to just W every wave, not harass, and end the game with just a doran's ring on Morgana. In fact I often feel like I can stay in lane forever as morg. Chalice makes that easier.

I think clarity is relatively useless though. In the laning phase teleport does the same thing and you should rarely be so low on mana in lane that it costs you a kill. It's only come teamfights, if a lot of people on your team are low on mana in a heated moment that I think clarity might be good.

On February 02 2012 19:15 Niton wrote:


Well, even then Clarity isn't good, because the mana is almost insignificant to teammates. Clarity got left behind and went from super niche to plain terrible with the mastery changes.

Chalice, though? Do the math - 2x DRing adds another 27 raw damage to Dark Binding, and another 6 raw damage to each tick of Tormented Soil that you land. Does that do more for you than 4 immediate mp5 (jumping up to 8 mp5 after a second immediate combo, scaling up to 14ish mp5 near empty)? If the extra 8-10 MP5 has a meaningful difference on your laning, than it's worth going for - it's definitely cheaper than 2x DRing, offers the mana of 3, and its survivability benefit goes from 'on par' to 'far superior' depending on how long you hold onto it.

Caveat: Chalice is definitely more powerful if you have good reason to add lots of Black Shields into the mix, because that ups the mp5 value of Chalice significantly while retaining equal EH from the shield (MR vs AP).