EPTOh wow Saint took a timer!
[Patch 1.0.0.133: Ziggs] General Discussion - Page 17
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Heed these two simple warnings. It will help make our GD a better place. Consider this fair notice to all users. Warning will be dished out this patch. Thanks. Neo, 31.01.12 | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
Oh wow Saint took a timer! | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On February 02 2012 07:57 TheKefka wrote: What discussion?There is no discussion when you tell someone to ignore the minimap.I edited my response to put it into perspective of SC. I don't know what to tell you apart from that.Other advice was good. He wasn't telling someone to ignore the minimap always. He said while your are working on CS don't allow yourself to be distracted by anything else. Just get that CS. Always get that CS. Your point about drones isn't well taken, either. Go back to the Chill's Challenge series from Weapon of Choice. He helped countless people improve their game by telling them to only do one thing at a time and ignore everything else. He'd have people just work on macro and then just a-move their units across the map without looking at them. Of course he didn't mean that people should always a-move their units and never micro them, but when trying to work on a particular task that other stuff is just noise getting in the way of improvement. | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
On February 02 2012 07:49 TheKefka wrote: Bold part is pretty stupid advice.Never,ever,ignore the minimap It's like saying ignore the minimap if you have problems with drone production and injects and than next thing you know you make 6 drones more than you used to but loose 40 to drops because you didn't pay attention to the map. Actually, that is very close to the advice zergs give / get for economy management. Drone. Then drone some more. Drone *ridiculously*. Drone to the detriment of everything else. That's the only way you can learn what you can get away with. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On February 02 2012 07:57 TheKefka wrote: What discussion?There is no discussion when you tell someone to ignore the minimap.I edited my response to put it into perspective of SC. I don't know what to tell you apart from that.Other advice was good. I also told him to ignore harassing the enemy and I also told him to ignore what his team does. All of this is incredibly stupid advice if someone wants to play to WIN the game, but it's also incredibly strong advice if he wants to improve at a specific skill. It's like saying ignore the minimap if you have problems with drone production and injects and than next thing you know you make 6 drones more than you used to but loose 40 to drops because you didn't pay attention to the map. Exactly this is a good way to practice. Good practice doesn't mean that you're going to win those games. Good practice means that you improve more during the invested time than you would have if you invested that time otherwise. If you want to improve your macro, forget everything else ("forget" meaning "leave it completely on autopilot with no conscious effort invested in it"). The same applies for micro, strategy or tactics. It is completely fine to die in a horrible fire because you had no units left after that fucking awesome micro you just pulled off, if (!!!) you aimed to work on your micro in the first place. If you want to win games you try to put everything together to actually play the best. Focussed practice is considered as the strongest way of practicing in pretty much any field where humans want to improve. Doesn't matter whether it's chess, golf, medicine, starcraft or martial arts. You're probably confusing "Playing to win" vs "Playing to practice" though and that's where your confusion comes from. =P Edit: All those people ninja'ing me in my own discussion. fml. <3 | ||
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TheTurk
United States732 Posts
 Ziggs is the most broken character blizzard has ever made. He's my new main. :D | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 02 2012 08:08 TheTurk wrote: Ashe buffs are nice. Ziggs is the most broken character blizzard has ever made. He's my new main. :D When did Blizzard start doing design work for riot? lol. I also don't think he is that overly strong, he has the same power as most AP champions. | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
It's on ranked lol... User was warned for this post | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
Normal Draft. HSGG is on a smurf that's not level 30. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
anyone else having this issue? | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
A lvl 18 garen with warmogs, atmas, and FoN (aka almost full tank) can 80-0 a lvl 18 twitch in 3 seconds.... If twitch were doing something like split pushing, he would be able to duel more opponents because he had more lifesteal, even surviving garen's combo. 340 from Garen's Q prearmor 1386 from E pre armor 73 armor on twitch twitch loses 1000 life and goes from 1660 to 660 life. 710 damage from Garne's ult vs 30 mr twitch kills twitch. Theoretically you could also just build a warmogs or GA on twitch, and he'd survive garen's combo, but that's more expensive. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
On February 02 2012 08:08 r.Evo wrote: I also told him to ignore harassing the enemy and I also told him to ignore what his team does. All of this is incredibly stupid advice if someone wants to play to WIN the game, but it's also incredibly strong advice if he wants to improve at a specific skill. Exactly this is a good way to practice. Good practice doesn't mean that you're going to win those games. Good practice means that you improve more during the invested time than you would have if you invested that time otherwise. If you want to improve your macro, forget everything else ("forget" meaning "leave it completely on autopilot with no conscious effort invested in it"). The same applies for micro, strategy or tactics. It is completely fine to die in a horrible fire because you had no units left after that fucking awesome micro you just pulled off, if (!!!) you aimed to work on your micro in the first place. If you want to win games you try to put everything together to actually play the best. Focussed practice is considered as the strongest way of practicing in pretty much any field where humans want to improve. Doesn't matter whether it's chess, golf, medicine, starcraft or martial arts. You're probably confusing "Playing to win" vs "Playing to practice" though and that's where your confusion comes from. =P Edit: All those people ninja'ing me in my own discussion. fml. <3 When you want to train a specific task, then do it. And it is obviouly a good thing to do. But why play agianst "real" opponents in that situation then? The advice of playing against a bot or even without bot and just last hitting is good. Actually real good and helps alot. When I played BW alot of times I played against comp just playing the BO I wanted to learn and macroing to 200 or something. That is fine. But going into a game against real player and ignoring everything just brings you into bad habbits. You can still focus on something, but ignoring the minimap in a real game is just bad and not helpful. If you want to improve last hitting, just stick to games vs bots. If you feel comfortable there, do it against real opponents, but without ignoring everything. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On February 02 2012 08:07 Node wrote: Actually, that is very close to the advice zergs give / get for economy management. Drone. Then drone some more. Drone *ridiculously*. Drone to the detriment of everything else. That's the only way you can learn what you can get away with. Droning because its the main objective,like cs,and focusing on it as your main objective is one thing,while IGNORING others is something completely different. I guess I just have different views on how to improve something than you guys. Csing isn't something so hard that you can't do something else while you are focusing on it. The best advice I can give the guy,which none of you told him(at least I didn't see it),is to not focus on something vague as GET EVERY CS NAU.What you want to focus on is paying attention to how much damage your minions are taking and how fast they are being damage by enemy creeps. Are 3 creeps attacking one at the same time,is the damage spread out,is every minion attack just one creep at a time? The most cs lost for players bad at csing is right at the start of the game while you do not do as much damage. Once you learn to notice how much damage each minion is taking and how fast it will go down,I guarantee you,you won't have problems with csing. There is not much to it,and its not like it will change much depending on what hero you play.If you learn how to approximate the damage on each minion you will suddenly find so much time during your play in which you can just do whatever you want. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 02 2012 07:54 Two_DoWn wrote: Fine, next time I let Nid bend you over and rape you with a broomstick that has glass glued to it. What you think about that? Fine, 8%, happy? (I jest I jest, if anyone was playing at 7.5% last night, it was me). On February 02 2012 07:59 jcarlsoniv wrote: It's actually quite interesting having played with both Monte and T_D frequently. I find Monte plays more like OddOne (more of a support jungler) while Two_Down plays extremely similarly to SV (carry jungler, only ganks when it's worth it). Playing A LOT with T_D, I've learned to be stronger and exchange better in lane. He needs to be able to rely on me to hold my lane well without ganks, and I need to rely on him to help the derpy solo q-ers win their lanes. When either of us struggle or fail, it's extremely evident in the turn out of the game. I think you're insulting TheOddOne. >.> On the subject of support vs carry jungling, that's actually one of the reasons I've been so obsessed with jungle Kayle lately. There are very few junglers who can act both as a support and/or as a carry. Gangplank is another one. In the worst case if either falls way behind they still have their ults and 1-2 other useful abilities that aren't dependent upon farm or items. In the best case you have another carry or bruiser. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On February 02 2012 08:29 Shikyo wrote: Like doublelift this whole game has been calling the new locket useless... Whaaaat o_o It's like super strong... Is he serious? the entire team is calling it worthless which tbh it seems | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
Few reasons why: 1) Kills-Most people don't have enough micro to harass, or go for them kills while getting the cs. Kills gold>cs gold. And if you don't have the skills to do both, you are only going to focus on csing, and miss out on potential kills and stuff. Or the opposite way around. Some people only focus on the csing part of the game and they go for cs when they shouldn't trying to stay even, or not be as behind and then take major harasses in the face and then get owned, when they shouldn't be going for cs. 2) Cs should be taken as a my cs vs their cs type thing. And a my scaling vs their scaling type thing. If you have 80 cs by 20 minutes, and the enemy carry has 30 cs by 20 minutes, you're doing better than 200 cs vs 190 cs by 20 minutes. Or on the flipside, you can have 200 cs, they can have 150, and they can have 2 kills on you, and a tower, and 2 drags. That's them having more gold than you and outplaying you and your cs lead. Or they can have corki farming lane cs, and jungle cs while you just farm lane cs and you fall behind. You should focus more on scaling. What items you have vs what items enemy carries have, the type of dmg you have vs the tankiness of enemy tanks, and how dangerous is the enemy ap carry at a certain time. You can have less cs than your opponent, but if you're winning in overall gold, you shouldn't even really focus on cs, and should just press your advanatage. Also, sometimes you just lose in cs or can't cs as much because you are a weaker carry than the opposing carry. Then, it's all about scaling and game sense. One time I had an even game where my support gave up fb and fucked me up in lane vs graves sona. I was forced to miss cs and graves was pushing adv real nicely and net about a 25 cs lead by just pushing me, harassing, and trying to deny me. This fucker was almost 2K elo so he wasn't missing anyways. Fb on my alistar also gave him a 400 gold lead. He used that 400 gold lead to buy 3 dorans. After FB, I knew I was behind and was going to get f'ed in lane and have no chance of beating sona graves. So I made the decision to go one dorans, and cut out lifesteal and dorans from my build. Anyways, long story short. I ended up getting IE faster than graves, and I told my team to force teamfights, and OP graves with his no IE and me with my IE ended up winning an even game. So don't worry about cs. 3) Just don't miss cs. If you don't miss cs, you don't even need to worry about how much you have at a certain time in the game. You are perfect, and have done everything you needed to do to, then you will naturally get much gold without worrying about cs anyways. Also, to really get good at csing, you go into a practice game with no1. You clear runes and masteries, pick a champion, and then practice csing. If you get to a level of perfection, aka you can play a practice game and get 50 or over 50 cs at the 5 min mark csing, 10/10 times you do this, then you move on to practicing with a bot. With a bot, you practice, hitting the bot as much as possible while getting all last hits, and improving your timing at harassing while last hitting at the same time. If you can get perfect cs, while killing that bot like a boss, you then move on to playing games with some1 else/more than 1 person and then practice csing while trying to get last hits. You still have everything cleared so that in real games, it is like 2x easier for you to cs. At this point, against other people you learn how to time everything even more perfectly by abusing when they go for cses and then harass them while not taking dmg in return, and understanding everything about the lane, aka creepwaves and etc. But this isn't hardcore enough. You need to get a new mouse/make your mouse more sensitive so you can react faster to things. Also, the tjhing about csing is that after lvl 4 it takes no skills. Your ad is huge enough that even a baby could cs. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 02 2012 08:38 Shikyo wrote: Well 2200 gold for 35 armor and 300 hp and 15 hp5 and the active building from HoG hmm... I guess if you compare it to aegis it's kind of behind, but the active should still be useful =D The active is the worst part. | ||
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