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On February 02 2012 07:44 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:39 arb wrote:
So i know i asked this before, but what is the amount of cs you should have by 20 minutes?
I was told in the other thread around 160, but in a lane where neither of us are exactly winning,(i.e it'd be really easy to get that much) i can barely manage like 130ish by 20 minutes, assuming no kills blah blah dumb shit etc.
Or is 5k @ 20 still an acceptable amount of gold earned? Work on it in a game without anyone else. Tell yourself "gj" for every cs you get and "stupid thing" for every one you miss. Then do the same vs bots. In a real game play about 3-5 in a role where your goal is to maximize CS - NO MATTER WHAT. Don't harass. Ignore the minimap. Ignore chat. Ignore your support setting up perfect spots to harass or kill someone. Tell your jungler to gtfo your lane. Invest about 5-6h of focussed gameplay into the above and then play normally, "just like before". Your average cs will have increased by 20%+. You can thank me later.
Now repeat with the next champion you want to last hit with XD
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On February 02 2012 07:45 Dgiese wrote:
Depends on the lane. but 200 by 20 is a good target to aim for on AD.
I mostly play solo top, i guess i shoulda mentioned that
ignoring harass there is a good way to die pretty fast imo
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160+ is about right for 20 minutes. 200 by then is pretty rare even at really high levels.
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On February 02 2012 07:27 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:19 BlackMagister wrote:On February 02 2012 07:18 mordek wrote:
Is Madred's -> Wriggle's a normal pick for jungle nunu...? Watching Saint's stream. He's trying attack speed Nunu I think. He said he was going to before game and has been doing Nunu top with on hit items. Also be careful what you learn from Saint lol. OI. I am a 1700+ player thanks to learnin shit by watchin SV. Like literally, its actually kind of sad. Ask Soniv or anyone I play with regularly. I play jungle like a clone of saint with 75% of his abilities.
FYI Two_Down obviously typoed and meant 7.5%.
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i find my cs getting lower as i play in higher level games because there's constant need to join the team to control objectives and such, and just more action in general, even though my cs'ing skill is the same or higher since i started
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On February 02 2012 07:44 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:39 arb wrote:
So i know i asked this before, but what is the amount of cs you should have by 20 minutes?
I was told in the other thread around 160, but in a lane where neither of us are exactly winning,(i.e it'd be really easy to get that much) i can barely manage like 130ish by 20 minutes, assuming no kills blah blah dumb shit etc.
Or is 5k @ 20 still an acceptable amount of gold earned? Work on it in a game without anyone else. Tell yourself "gj" for every cs you get and "stupid thing" for every one you miss. Then do the same vs bots. In a real game play about 3-5 in a role where your goal is to maximize CS - NO MATTER WHAT. Don't harass. Ignore the minimap. Ignore chat. Ignore your support setting up perfect spots to harass or kill someone. Tell your jungler to gtfo your lane. Invest about 5-6h of focussed gameplay into the above and then play normally, "just like before". Your average cs will have increased by 20%+. You can thank me later.
Bold part is pretty stupid advice.Never,ever,ignore the minimap
It's like saying ignore the minimap if you have problems with drone production and injects and than next thing you know you make 6 drones more than you used to but loose 40 to drops because you didn't pay attention to the map.
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On February 02 2012 07:46 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:44 r.Evo wrote:On February 02 2012 07:39 arb wrote:
So i know i asked this before, but what is the amount of cs you should have by 20 minutes?
I was told in the other thread around 160, but in a lane where neither of us are exactly winning,(i.e it'd be really easy to get that much) i can barely manage like 130ish by 20 minutes, assuming no kills blah blah dumb shit etc.
Or is 5k @ 20 still an acceptable amount of gold earned? Work on it in a game without anyone else. Tell yourself "gj" for every cs you get and "stupid thing" for every one you miss. Then do the same vs bots. In a real game play about 3-5 in a role where your goal is to maximize CS - NO MATTER WHAT. Don't harass. Ignore the minimap. Ignore chat. Ignore your support setting up perfect spots to harass or kill someone. Tell your jungler to gtfo your lane. Invest about 5-6h of focussed gameplay into the above and then play normally, "just like before". Your average cs will have increased by 20%+. You can thank me later. Now repeat with the next champion you want to last hit with XD
-_-;; - diaf.
tbh that's why I said "role". A Graves isn't THAT far from an Ashe or a Caitlyn when it comes to this aspect of the game. A Riven and an Irelia aren't that far from each other. Yes, individual champions will need individual work on certain aspects, but for farming roles I'd say you only have melee AD / AP / ranged AD.
Learning how to farm better with one of those 3 will improve farming on all champs in that category (and most likely the other categories as well). I don't believe anyone who says he doesn't farm as well because he is mechanically incapable of it, it is most likely a poor distribution of focus. - Something you can get rid of very easily with focussed practice.
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The new bots are not hard at all. They're also really buggy. Sometimes they'll just stand still and let you kill them without fighting back.
edit:
Apparently I didn't refresh and thought I was still on page 14. My bad. 
another edit:
I usually get 140-150 CS by 20 minutes on AP or AD carry. Sometimes will have 170-180 if I'm dominating the lane. Thanks for making me feel better about myself TL.
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On February 02 2012 07:49 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:44 r.Evo wrote:On February 02 2012 07:39 arb wrote:
So i know i asked this before, but what is the amount of cs you should have by 20 minutes?
I was told in the other thread around 160, but in a lane where neither of us are exactly winning,(i.e it'd be really easy to get that much) i can barely manage like 130ish by 20 minutes, assuming no kills blah blah dumb shit etc.
Or is 5k @ 20 still an acceptable amount of gold earned? Work on it in a game without anyone else. Tell yourself "gj" for every cs you get and "stupid thing" for every one you miss. Then do the same vs bots. In a real game play about 3-5 in a role where your goal is to maximize CS - NO MATTER WHAT. Don't harass. Ignore the minimap. Ignore chat. Ignore your support setting up perfect spots to harass or kill someone. Tell your jungler to gtfo your lane. Invest about 5-6h of focussed gameplay into the above and then play normally, "just like before". Your average cs will have increased by 20%+. You can thank me later. Bold part is pretty stupid advice.Never,ever,ignore the minimap.
Thank you for calling my advice stupid without giving proper reasoning, that will help the discussion along!
If you want to improve at a single specific task you should put your entire focus on only that task. Playing a game where you ONLY watch the minimap at the cost of your farming and harass, then playing a game where you ONLY focus on farming and then playing a game where you ONLY focus on harassing is the proper strategy to improve those specific skills.
Trying to improve all those 3 aspects at the same time is something you can start with once the individual skills are up to the level where you want them.
Integretation of different skills into a larger skillset is something entirely different than improving on those skills individually.
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On February 02 2012 07:48 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:27 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 02 2012 07:19 BlackMagister wrote:On February 02 2012 07:18 mordek wrote:
Is Madred's -> Wriggle's a normal pick for jungle nunu...? Watching Saint's stream. He's trying attack speed Nunu I think. He said he was going to before game and has been doing Nunu top with on hit items. Also be careful what you learn from Saint lol. OI. I am a 1700+ player thanks to learnin shit by watchin SV. Like literally, its actually kind of sad. Ask Soniv or anyone I play with regularly. I play jungle like a clone of saint with 75% of his abilities. FYI Two_Down obviously typoed and meant 7.5%.
Fine, next time I let Nid bend you over and rape you with a broomstick that has glass glued to it.
What you think about that?
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On February 02 2012 07:50 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:46 mordek wrote:On February 02 2012 07:44 r.Evo wrote:On February 02 2012 07:39 arb wrote:
So i know i asked this before, but what is the amount of cs you should have by 20 minutes?
I was told in the other thread around 160, but in a lane where neither of us are exactly winning,(i.e it'd be really easy to get that much) i can barely manage like 130ish by 20 minutes, assuming no kills blah blah dumb shit etc.
Or is 5k @ 20 still an acceptable amount of gold earned? Work on it in a game without anyone else. Tell yourself "gj" for every cs you get and "stupid thing" for every one you miss. Then do the same vs bots. In a real game play about 3-5 in a role where your goal is to maximize CS - NO MATTER WHAT. Don't harass. Ignore the minimap. Ignore chat. Ignore your support setting up perfect spots to harass or kill someone. Tell your jungler to gtfo your lane. Invest about 5-6h of focussed gameplay into the above and then play normally, "just like before". Your average cs will have increased by 20%+. You can thank me later. Now repeat with the next champion you want to last hit with XD -_-;; - diaf. tbh that's why I said "role". A Graves isn't THAT far from an Ashe or a Caitlyn when it comes to this aspect of the game. A Riven and an Irelia aren't that far from each other. Yes, individual champions will need individual work on certain aspects, but for farming roles I'd say you only have melee AD / AP / ranged AD. Learning how to farm better with one of those 3 will improve farming on all champs in that category (and most likely the other categories as well). I don't believe anyone who says he doesn't farm as well because he is mechanically incapable of it, it is most likely a poor distribution of focus. - Something you can get rid of very easily with focussed practice.
It was more in jest  Some champs are just way different was all I was getting at. I don't disagree with the advice.
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On February 02 2012 07:52 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:49 TheKefka wrote:On February 02 2012 07:44 r.Evo wrote:On February 02 2012 07:39 arb wrote:
So i know i asked this before, but what is the amount of cs you should have by 20 minutes?
I was told in the other thread around 160, but in a lane where neither of us are exactly winning,(i.e it'd be really easy to get that much) i can barely manage like 130ish by 20 minutes, assuming no kills blah blah dumb shit etc.
Or is 5k @ 20 still an acceptable amount of gold earned? Work on it in a game without anyone else. Tell yourself "gj" for every cs you get and "stupid thing" for every one you miss. Then do the same vs bots. In a real game play about 3-5 in a role where your goal is to maximize CS - NO MATTER WHAT. Don't harass. Ignore the minimap. Ignore chat. Ignore your support setting up perfect spots to harass or kill someone. Tell your jungler to gtfo your lane. Invest about 5-6h of focussed gameplay into the above and then play normally, "just like before". Your average cs will have increased by 20%+. You can thank me later. Bold part is pretty stupid advice.Never,ever,ignore the minimap. Thank you for calling my advice stupid without giving proper reasoning, that will help the discussion along! If you want to improve at a single specific task you should put your entire focus on only that task. Playing a game where you ONLY watch the minimap at the cost of your farming and harass, then playing a game where you ONLY focus on farming and then playing a game where you ONLY focus on harassing is the proper strategy to improve those specific skills. Trying to improve all those 3 aspects at the same time is something you can start with once the individual skills are up to the level where you want them. Integretation of different skills into a larger skillset is something entirely different than improving on those skills individually.
What discussion?There is no discussion when you tell someone to ignore the minimap.I edited my response to put it into perspective of SC.
I don't know what to tell you apart from that.Other advice was good.
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On February 02 2012 07:48 requiem wrote:
i find my cs getting lower as i play in higher level games because there's constant need to join the team to control objectives and such, and just more action in general, even though my cs'ing skill is the same or higher since i started
I find the exact opposite, the better the people are the longer and more stable the laning phase lasts, leading to more CS.
In 1100 ELO games nobody has any idea how to trade damage or play safe. Lanes rapidly feed 3-4 kills, destabilize, and one side loses tower etc....
Also bad players have no idea when to engage and will go in 4v5 etc so even if I'd rather stay in my lane and CS I have to go walk with them just to avoid losing consecutive retarded teamfights
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On February 02 2012 07:27 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:19 BlackMagister wrote:On February 02 2012 07:18 mordek wrote:
Is Madred's -> Wriggle's a normal pick for jungle nunu...? Watching Saint's stream. He's trying attack speed Nunu I think. He said he was going to before game and has been doing Nunu top with on hit items. Also be careful what you learn from Saint lol. OI. I am a 1700+ player thanks to learnin shit by watchin SV. Like literally, its actually kind of sad. Ask Soniv or anyone I play with regularly. I play jungle like a clone of saint with 75% of his abilities.
On February 02 2012 07:48 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:27 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 02 2012 07:19 BlackMagister wrote:On February 02 2012 07:18 mordek wrote:
Is Madred's -> Wriggle's a normal pick for jungle nunu...? Watching Saint's stream. He's trying attack speed Nunu I think. He said he was going to before game and has been doing Nunu top with on hit items. Also be careful what you learn from Saint lol. OI. I am a 1700+ player thanks to learnin shit by watchin SV. Like literally, its actually kind of sad. Ask Soniv or anyone I play with regularly. I play jungle like a clone of saint with 75% of his abilities. FYI Two_Down obviously typoed and meant 7.5%.
It's actually quite interesting having played with both Monte and T_D frequently. I find Monte plays more like OddOne (more of a support jungler) while Two_Down plays extremely similarly to SV (carry jungler, only ganks when it's worth it).
Playing A LOT with T_D, I've learned to be stronger and exchange better in lane. He needs to be able to rely on me to hold my lane well without ganks, and I need to rely on him to help the derpy solo q-ers win their lanes. When either of us struggle or fail, it's extremely evident in the turn out of the game.
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On February 02 2012 07:57 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:50 r.Evo wrote:On February 02 2012 07:46 mordek wrote:On February 02 2012 07:44 r.Evo wrote:On February 02 2012 07:39 arb wrote:
So i know i asked this before, but what is the amount of cs you should have by 20 minutes?
I was told in the other thread around 160, but in a lane where neither of us are exactly winning,(i.e it'd be really easy to get that much) i can barely manage like 130ish by 20 minutes, assuming no kills blah blah dumb shit etc.
Or is 5k @ 20 still an acceptable amount of gold earned? Work on it in a game without anyone else. Tell yourself "gj" for every cs you get and "stupid thing" for every one you miss. Then do the same vs bots. In a real game play about 3-5 in a role where your goal is to maximize CS - NO MATTER WHAT. Don't harass. Ignore the minimap. Ignore chat. Ignore your support setting up perfect spots to harass or kill someone. Tell your jungler to gtfo your lane. Invest about 5-6h of focussed gameplay into the above and then play normally, "just like before". Your average cs will have increased by 20%+. You can thank me later. Now repeat with the next champion you want to last hit with XD -_-;; - diaf. tbh that's why I said "role". A Graves isn't THAT far from an Ashe or a Caitlyn when it comes to this aspect of the game. A Riven and an Irelia aren't that far from each other. Yes, individual champions will need individual work on certain aspects, but for farming roles I'd say you only have melee AD / AP / ranged AD. Learning how to farm better with one of those 3 will improve farming on all champs in that category (and most likely the other categories as well). I don't believe anyone who says he doesn't farm as well because he is mechanically incapable of it, it is most likely a poor distribution of focus. - Something you can get rid of very easily with focussed practice. It was more in jest Some champs are just way different was all I was getting at.
zzz I know.
For me it's like "then you suddenly play any random AP, lose 200 elo, decide that you didn't want to play that role anyway and stop playing them" =D
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On February 02 2012 07:52 overt wrote:The new bots are not hard at all. They're also really buggy. Sometimes they'll just stand still and let you kill them without fighting back. edit: Apparently I didn't refresh and thought I was still on page 14. My bad. another edit: I usually get 140-150 CS by 20 minutes on AP or AD carry. Sometimes will have 170-180 if I'm dominating the lane. Thanks for making me feel better about myself TL.
Yeah, they as weak as the old ones. Supposedly they making expert bots that are harder and use a jungler though.
That being said, Cass is kind of a scary bot. lol.
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On February 02 2012 07:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:27 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 02 2012 07:19 BlackMagister wrote:On February 02 2012 07:18 mordek wrote:
Is Madred's -> Wriggle's a normal pick for jungle nunu...? Watching Saint's stream. He's trying attack speed Nunu I think. He said he was going to before game and has been doing Nunu top with on hit items. Also be careful what you learn from Saint lol. OI. I am a 1700+ player thanks to learnin shit by watchin SV. Like literally, its actually kind of sad. Ask Soniv or anyone I play with regularly. I play jungle like a clone of saint with 75% of his abilities. Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:48 Seuss wrote:On February 02 2012 07:27 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 02 2012 07:19 BlackMagister wrote:On February 02 2012 07:18 mordek wrote:
Is Madred's -> Wriggle's a normal pick for jungle nunu...? Watching Saint's stream. He's trying attack speed Nunu I think. He said he was going to before game and has been doing Nunu top with on hit items. Also be careful what you learn from Saint lol. OI. I am a 1700+ player thanks to learnin shit by watchin SV. Like literally, its actually kind of sad. Ask Soniv or anyone I play with regularly. I play jungle like a clone of saint with 75% of his abilities. FYI Two_Down obviously typoed and meant 7.5%. It's actually quite interesting having played with both Monte and T_D frequently. I find Monte plays more like OddOne (more of a support jungler) while Two_Down plays extremely similarly to SV (carry jungler, only ganks when it's worth it). Playing A LOT with T_D, I've learned to be stronger and exchange better in lane. He needs to be able to rely on me to hold my lane well without ganks, and I need to rely on him to help the derpy solo q-ers win their lanes. When either of us struggle or fail, it's extremely evident in the turn out of the game.
Unless Im on GP. But thats just cuz GP is fucking stupid. You have to be REAL bad to lose a game as GP.
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United States37500 Posts
On February 02 2012 07:57 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:48 requiem wrote:
i find my cs getting lower as i play in higher level games because there's constant need to join the team to control objectives and such, and just more action in general, even though my cs'ing skill is the same or higher since i started I find the exact opposite, the better the people are the longer and more stable the laning phase lasts, leading to more CS. In 1100 ELO games nobody has any idea how to trade damage or play safe. Lanes rapidly feed 3-4 kills, destabilize, and one side loses tower etc.... Also bad players have no idea when to engage and will go in 4v5 etc so even if I'd rather stay in my lane and CS I have to go walk with them just to avoid losing consecutive retarded teamfights
He's talking from a personal perspective though. At lower elo, you can afford to stay in lane longer because there is a lack of early dragons and counterjungling.
High levels, everyone has better CS'ing skills but there's also a lot more time spent out of lane for team objectives. So better CS skills doesn't always translate to more CS.
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On February 02 2012 07:59 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 07:52 overt wrote:The new bots are not hard at all. They're also really buggy. Sometimes they'll just stand still and let you kill them without fighting back. edit: Apparently I didn't refresh and thought I was still on page 14. My bad. another edit: I usually get 140-150 CS by 20 minutes on AP or AD carry. Sometimes will have 170-180 if I'm dominating the lane. Thanks for making me feel better about myself TL. Yeah, they as weak as the old ones. Supposedly they making expert bots that are harder and use a jungler though. That being said, Cass is kind of a scary bot. lol.
Jungler would be good just so new players or bad players (who are the primary users of AI games imo) can get used to there being a jungler. I've got like 80+ AI games just playing with some of my friends who "want to try out a new champ" or something and it's just always a roll because the bots just go full on aggressive and then take free harass.
It'd be nice if they could implement truly challenging bots so that when I play with my friends who "aren't ready for a real game with this champion!" I can at least have fun. Still, it's really hard to create AI for a game like LoL or other RTS games that aren't incredibly predictable and thus really easy to beat.
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On February 01 2012 18:18 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 18:14 Veclada wrote:On February 01 2012 17:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On February 01 2012 17:37 gtrsrs wrote:
yo steve protip from your best friend
AD sona is super strong - try her from the jungle so you can run a legit AD carry too. wriggles zeal -> mass phantom dancers. she clears camps super fast, she has great dueling power thanks to passive and decent ganks (fantastic once ult is up) to boot. i don't know a good route, but i saw a guy go from like 1300 to basically 1800 playing nothing but jungle AD sona oooh i haven't tried jungling as sona yet. in the games i played today i successfully 1v1d a graves, sivir (both our ults LOL), and ezreal because i fucking smashed them in the face with power chord. i've been going cloth+5 -> wriggles + zerkers + 1-2 dorans -> pd -> ie -> lw ...rofl. its so much fun, seriously try it. half the fun is being charismatic enough that your team doesn't freak out during champ select (4/4 on that front thx) edit: any trip reports on solo top bruiser taric? :D at what rating and wich runes/masteries do you run with this? <1200 ( ) arpen armor mr, quints ad, 21/0/9 or 21/9/0 depending on the lane
just played her in a normal game, went as jungle sona acctualy got 20/4/12 running 3 PD, IE and wriggles
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EPT
