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On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything.
He needs the Philo to sustain himself in the jungle (he needs both mana and HP regen) and most Nocs get a HoG anyway.
Edit: also, how do you get them way too late? Without any successful ganks, you should have both GP10s+Boots at around 8-10 minutes and then start working on your Wriggle's. I don't see how that is too late. Besides, Wriggle's don't exactly turn your ganks into beasts, it does not offer THAT much damage after all. You want GP10s in the new jungle because of it's nature, and you want Wriggle's to keep up with your clearing speed. I don't see how it DOESN'T make sense.
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On January 24 2012 00:32 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 23:38 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:On January 23 2012 23:30 mr_tolkien wrote:On January 23 2012 23:14 ChaoSbringer wrote:
Any tips on Yorick? Just bought him and I got manhandled by a GP who must have been running crit runes + cloak/zeal opening. GPs Q range feels more than E and about even with W, making it hard to come the better out of trades. General tips also appreciated. QWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWEQWE. brb buying yorick for free wins  Really though, sounds a lot like my favorite AP - ryze. Ryze requires timing and planification, as well as positionning. Yorick doesn't.
Similar as in they both like to spam their abilities. I just find spammy champions really fun. yorick still looks pretty boring tho . . . :/
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On January 24 2012 00:51 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. He needs the Philo to sustain himself in the jungle (he needs both mana and HP regen) and most Nocs get a HoG anyway. Edit: also, how do you get them way too late? Without any successful ganks, you should have both GP10s+Boots at around 8-10 minutes and then start working on your Wriggle's. I don't see how that is too late. Besides, Wriggle's don't exactly turn your ganks into beasts, it does not offer THAT much damage after all. You want GP10s in the new jungle because of it's nature, and you want Wriggle's to keep up with your clearing speed. I don't see how it DOESN'T make sense.
How about wriggles into gp10?
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On January 24 2012 01:00 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 00:51 Shiv. wrote:On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. He needs the Philo to sustain himself in the jungle (he needs both mana and HP regen) and most Nocs get a HoG anyway. Edit: also, how do you get them way too late? Without any successful ganks, you should have both GP10s+Boots at around 8-10 minutes and then start working on your Wriggle's. I don't see how that is too late. Besides, Wriggle's don't exactly turn your ganks into beasts, it does not offer THAT much damage after all. You want GP10s in the new jungle because of it's nature, and you want Wriggle's to keep up with your clearing speed. I don't see how it DOESN'T make sense. How about wriggles into gp10?
Why would you?
Seriously, if you get an early gank in, you have your philo like 4 minutes in. I don't see how Wriggle's before Philo+HoG does Jarvan any good.
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On January 24 2012 01:03 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:00 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:On January 24 2012 00:51 Shiv. wrote:On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. He needs the Philo to sustain himself in the jungle (he needs both mana and HP regen) and most Nocs get a HoG anyway. Edit: also, how do you get them way too late? Without any successful ganks, you should have both GP10s+Boots at around 8-10 minutes and then start working on your Wriggle's. I don't see how that is too late. Besides, Wriggle's don't exactly turn your ganks into beasts, it does not offer THAT much damage after all. You want GP10s in the new jungle because of it's nature, and you want Wriggle's to keep up with your clearing speed. I don't see how it DOESN'T make sense. How about wriggles into gp10? Why would you? Seriously, if you get an early gank in, you have your philo like 4 minutes in. I don't see how Wriggle's before Philo+HoG does Jarvan any good.
Hmm that makes sense I guess. But do you really need to rush BOTH before wriggles? Maybe HoG after wriggles? I dunno, I just feel uncomfortable delaying wriggles that long.
Btw I'm just a noob trying to learn the thought-process behind these decisions.
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On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything.
nocturne's main purpose in ganks is to deal damage. he doesn't have an instant gap closer, or instant CC, so he cannot really come in relying on teammates for damage. he also does 1 spell/camp to clear with mostly autoattacking.
Jarman has an instant gap closer that CCs opponents with a 2nd form of CC to follow up with, letting him lean more heavily on teammate damage. He does 2 spells/camp to clear and relies on those spells base damages moreso than auto-attacking.
There's nothing wrong with going wriggle's first on Jarman, but I have had more success with double gold/10 pre-wriggle's than wriggle's rush on Jarman.
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On January 24 2012 00:31 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 22:36 WhiteDog wrote:On January 23 2012 20:58 wussleeQ wrote:Oh man. Regi responding to SV's reddit post. and also + Show Spoiler +http://solomid.net/blog.php?v=18322Him Quoting Saintvicious
"eh.... aggressive counter-jungling takes advantage of weak junglers and weak lane picks.
Moscow 5 took advantage of rain mans weak top lane performance/picks as well as oddones poor adaptability. I was really disappointed in how oddone played and I thought he would adapt better. Moscow 5 knows how to group and plays well in that sense but I think the aggressive counter jungling strat is extremely flawed and would not work against a solid jungler/top lane. CLG EU has shown this with their consistant wins vs moscow 5 in scrims."
"Also for people who say clg comes off as arrogant, clg as hands down double if not tripple any teams overall tourney wins on the history of competitive league. We are also one of the oldest teams in league as well. I give my opinion from that point and nothing else. It's like John Madden critiquing a play in football and then someone coming out and saying madden is an arrogant idiot for doing so. I speak from a long line of experience and nothin more.
M5 is going to end up being the next dig, do well one tourney and get overhyped." ENDQUOTE
Team Solomid has always had a very outspoken attitude and it is a trait that has garnered the love and hope of so many fans. TSM has not had an amazing track record in tournaments and while we relish our victories, we show humility in defeat. Unfortunately, not every team follows our same philosophy, as one could see from the above quote on Reddit from CLG's Saintvicious.
All teams appreciate constructive criticism, however Saint's comments were anything but. While Saintvicious and TheOddOne do have an intense rivalry, there is a limit. As a team, we acknowledge our own mistakes and work to address them, but Saint's comments on a public forum are ones stemming from arrogance and are of no reasonable value. This isn't the first time, after MLG Providece, HotshotGG posted on Reddit stating, "my hero repertoire hard counters their Yorick, I know it wouldn't have been a problem for me." Instead of congratulating TheRainMan on his impressive play at MLG, he instead claims that if it were him there, there would simply be no contest between the two.
Though Saintvicious claims that "he speaks from a long line of experience," CLG has not won a single LAN tournament with their full roster since WCG 2010, including a 0-2 loss to MiG in the recent Korean tournament in which CLG was the only western team present. CLG speaks with authority, but lacks the force to back it up and it has been showing with their recent slump resulting in the departure of long-time member, Elementz.
Moscow 5 played amazing at IntelEM Kiev, impressing everyone and garnering the attention of hundreds of thousands worldwide. Despite such an impressive play, CLG's only comment are that they will never become a top tier team and that had CLG been there, it would have been a victory for CLG. This is not the attitude that any team should take in regards to upcoming superstars. CLG should show a bit more respect to any team that are not themselves and work on their own play instead of criticizing every other team's.
As for us, we plan to continue to practice as much as possible and we will be playing on the Europe-West server in preparation for future tournaments. Also, on behalf of Team Solomid, we congratulate Moscow 5 for their victory over us in the grand finals of IntelEM Kiev in the best matches of the tournament. I wish them the best of luck in upcoming events and in the rest of their LoL careers. Sometime I see solomid as a team of kids, with all their "bro" and "dude", but some other time they impress me with their sportmanship, especially in defeat, like that time when TRM just said they lost because their opponent played better. This is a great answer, it was TSM vs M5 and not TRM vs Dar1en, and all that bash on TRM and now theoddone seems very very mean. Just accept the defeat, as cocky as they were M5 were just impressive. lol, Regi just had to fire something back, and the best way to save face in this situation is by saying that their opponents were good, not that they were bad. This statement from Regi is almost more childish than Saint's reddit post to be honest. If Jatt writes another analysis post and bashes their decisions, is he going to throw out another blog entry to say how Jatt isn't competitive anymore and shouldn't be talking? If they are going to man up and take criticisms, this post was completely unnecessary. That the post went up at all is an indication that they are still hung up over it and in fact, didn't want to take criticisms. Especially not from a rival team that they feel like is worse than them.
I think you didn't understand his point at all. It's not about the criticising, it's about criticising one specific player and not the team as a whole, in which he is completly right. Just like Xspecial answers to saintvicious on reddit : it's about TSM's bad decision, and not TRM or TOO's individuals skills.
Getting wriggles or not was one of my main difficulty with jarman jungle, will tryout gp5/wriggles/triforce/warmog thing.
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On January 24 2012 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 00:31 Ecael wrote:On January 23 2012 22:36 WhiteDog wrote:On January 23 2012 20:58 wussleeQ wrote:Oh man. Regi responding to SV's reddit post. and also + Show Spoiler +http://solomid.net/blog.php?v=18322Him Quoting Saintvicious
"eh.... aggressive counter-jungling takes advantage of weak junglers and weak lane picks.
Moscow 5 took advantage of rain mans weak top lane performance/picks as well as oddones poor adaptability. I was really disappointed in how oddone played and I thought he would adapt better. Moscow 5 knows how to group and plays well in that sense but I think the aggressive counter jungling strat is extremely flawed and would not work against a solid jungler/top lane. CLG EU has shown this with their consistant wins vs moscow 5 in scrims."
"Also for people who say clg comes off as arrogant, clg as hands down double if not tripple any teams overall tourney wins on the history of competitive league. We are also one of the oldest teams in league as well. I give my opinion from that point and nothing else. It's like John Madden critiquing a play in football and then someone coming out and saying madden is an arrogant idiot for doing so. I speak from a long line of experience and nothin more.
M5 is going to end up being the next dig, do well one tourney and get overhyped." ENDQUOTE
Team Solomid has always had a very outspoken attitude and it is a trait that has garnered the love and hope of so many fans. TSM has not had an amazing track record in tournaments and while we relish our victories, we show humility in defeat. Unfortunately, not every team follows our same philosophy, as one could see from the above quote on Reddit from CLG's Saintvicious.
All teams appreciate constructive criticism, however Saint's comments were anything but. While Saintvicious and TheOddOne do have an intense rivalry, there is a limit. As a team, we acknowledge our own mistakes and work to address them, but Saint's comments on a public forum are ones stemming from arrogance and are of no reasonable value. This isn't the first time, after MLG Providece, HotshotGG posted on Reddit stating, "my hero repertoire hard counters their Yorick, I know it wouldn't have been a problem for me." Instead of congratulating TheRainMan on his impressive play at MLG, he instead claims that if it were him there, there would simply be no contest between the two.
Though Saintvicious claims that "he speaks from a long line of experience," CLG has not won a single LAN tournament with their full roster since WCG 2010, including a 0-2 loss to MiG in the recent Korean tournament in which CLG was the only western team present. CLG speaks with authority, but lacks the force to back it up and it has been showing with their recent slump resulting in the departure of long-time member, Elementz.
Moscow 5 played amazing at IntelEM Kiev, impressing everyone and garnering the attention of hundreds of thousands worldwide. Despite such an impressive play, CLG's only comment are that they will never become a top tier team and that had CLG been there, it would have been a victory for CLG. This is not the attitude that any team should take in regards to upcoming superstars. CLG should show a bit more respect to any team that are not themselves and work on their own play instead of criticizing every other team's.
As for us, we plan to continue to practice as much as possible and we will be playing on the Europe-West server in preparation for future tournaments. Also, on behalf of Team Solomid, we congratulate Moscow 5 for their victory over us in the grand finals of IntelEM Kiev in the best matches of the tournament. I wish them the best of luck in upcoming events and in the rest of their LoL careers. Sometime I see solomid as a team of kids, with all their "bro" and "dude", but some other time they impress me with their sportmanship, especially in defeat, like that time when TRM just said they lost because their opponent played better. This is a great answer, it was TSM vs M5 and not TRM vs Dar1en, and all that bash on TRM and now theoddone seems very very mean. Just accept the defeat, as cocky as they were M5 were just impressive. lol, Regi just had to fire something back, and the best way to save face in this situation is by saying that their opponents were good, not that they were bad. This statement from Regi is almost more childish than Saint's reddit post to be honest. If Jatt writes another analysis post and bashes their decisions, is he going to throw out another blog entry to say how Jatt isn't competitive anymore and shouldn't be talking? If they are going to man up and take criticisms, this post was completely unnecessary. That the post went up at all is an indication that they are still hung up over it and in fact, didn't want to take criticisms. Especially not from a rival team that they feel like is worse than them. I think you didn't understand his point at all. It's not about the criticising, it's about criticising one specific player and not the team as a whole, in which he is completly right. Just like Xspecial answers to saintvicious on reddit : it's about TSM's bad decision, and not TRM or TOO's individuals skills.
That is silly, TSM made a bad decision, that doesn't mean that the individual players performed up to par.
The team's bad decision made these two the spotlight and placed additional responsibility on them to not fail. When people perform under such pressure, we call them good players. When they fail, we recognize that they themselves have a part of the blame, but it isn't entirely their fault. The team as a whole were required to adapt to the situation that they are placed in, but most of all the players that are stuck in the thick of it (in this case, jungle and top) have to understand their position and play to make the most of it. That didn't happen. To ignore one side of the problems and lump it all on the other is nonsensical.
Saint's post was criticism for the sake of criticism. Regi was just saving face and letting out some steam. There was nothing sportsman like here to commend.
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i don't think there's anything wrong with going wriggles after gp10... just not that into going wriggles on junglers anymore. Ive been going philo hog directly into aegis or triforce
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On January 24 2012 01:25 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. nocturne's main purpose in ganks is to deal damage. he doesn't have an instant gap closer, or instant CC, so he cannot really come in relying on teammates for damage. he also does 1 spell/camp to clear with mostly autoattacking. Jarman has an instant gap closer that CCs opponents with a 2nd form of CC to follow up with, letting him lean more heavily on teammate damage. He does 2 spells/camp to clear and relies on those spells base damages moreso than auto-attacking. There's nothing wrong with going wriggle's first on Jarman, but I have had more success with double gold/10 pre-wriggle's than wriggle's rush on Jarman.
This is more convincing. I skimmed through your vods to see if you had any Jarvan jungle games after the jungle and mastery changes, but I couldn't find any before I had to leave to catch the bus. I wasn't sure about Jarvan's mana dependency when it comes to jungling, but if he's spell reliant in clearing camps then philo makes sense. I'm just going to assume he runs out of mana quickly without blue. Shiv's arguments just were not convincing at all because even with the jungle changes going gold before wriggles on auto-attack reliant junglers like Nocturne and Lee Sin just isn't good. The only way that kind of thing would make sense is on junglers that are highly spell reliant on clearing like Maokai and Pheonix Udyr, for example, and they don't get wriggles because it's unnecessary and delays other items that work with them better. I guess Jarvan is different from these two since even though he is spell reliant, he makes use of the cost efficient wriggles more fully.
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On January 24 2012 01:25 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. nocturne's main purpose in ganks is to deal damage. he doesn't have an instant gap closer, or instant CC, so he cannot really come in relying on teammates for damage. he also does 1 spell/camp to clear with mostly autoattacking. Jarman has an instant gap closer that CCs opponents with a 2nd form of CC to follow up with, letting him lean more heavily on teammate damage. He does 2 spells/camp to clear and relies on those spells base damages moreso than auto-attacking. There's nothing wrong with going wriggle's first on Jarman, but I have had more success with double gold/10 pre-wriggle's than wriggle's rush on Jarman.
Whenever I play top with bruiser, I go either wriggles first, or gp10, but rarely both.
But for jarvan it makes plenty of sense to do it. Jarvan's mana problems almost requires some sort of mana regen item (philo stone), and adding more health through hog helps jarvan a lot. It synergizes with jarvan really well, as compared to other champions.
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On January 24 2012 01:40 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 24 2012 00:31 Ecael wrote:On January 23 2012 22:36 WhiteDog wrote:On January 23 2012 20:58 wussleeQ wrote:Oh man. Regi responding to SV's reddit post. and also + Show Spoiler +http://solomid.net/blog.php?v=18322Him Quoting Saintvicious
"eh.... aggressive counter-jungling takes advantage of weak junglers and weak lane picks.
Moscow 5 took advantage of rain mans weak top lane performance/picks as well as oddones poor adaptability. I was really disappointed in how oddone played and I thought he would adapt better. Moscow 5 knows how to group and plays well in that sense but I think the aggressive counter jungling strat is extremely flawed and would not work against a solid jungler/top lane. CLG EU has shown this with their consistant wins vs moscow 5 in scrims."
"Also for people who say clg comes off as arrogant, clg as hands down double if not tripple any teams overall tourney wins on the history of competitive league. We are also one of the oldest teams in league as well. I give my opinion from that point and nothing else. It's like John Madden critiquing a play in football and then someone coming out and saying madden is an arrogant idiot for doing so. I speak from a long line of experience and nothin more.
M5 is going to end up being the next dig, do well one tourney and get overhyped." ENDQUOTE
Team Solomid has always had a very outspoken attitude and it is a trait that has garnered the love and hope of so many fans. TSM has not had an amazing track record in tournaments and while we relish our victories, we show humility in defeat. Unfortunately, not every team follows our same philosophy, as one could see from the above quote on Reddit from CLG's Saintvicious.
All teams appreciate constructive criticism, however Saint's comments were anything but. While Saintvicious and TheOddOne do have an intense rivalry, there is a limit. As a team, we acknowledge our own mistakes and work to address them, but Saint's comments on a public forum are ones stemming from arrogance and are of no reasonable value. This isn't the first time, after MLG Providece, HotshotGG posted on Reddit stating, "my hero repertoire hard counters their Yorick, I know it wouldn't have been a problem for me." Instead of congratulating TheRainMan on his impressive play at MLG, he instead claims that if it were him there, there would simply be no contest between the two.
Though Saintvicious claims that "he speaks from a long line of experience," CLG has not won a single LAN tournament with their full roster since WCG 2010, including a 0-2 loss to MiG in the recent Korean tournament in which CLG was the only western team present. CLG speaks with authority, but lacks the force to back it up and it has been showing with their recent slump resulting in the departure of long-time member, Elementz.
Moscow 5 played amazing at IntelEM Kiev, impressing everyone and garnering the attention of hundreds of thousands worldwide. Despite such an impressive play, CLG's only comment are that they will never become a top tier team and that had CLG been there, it would have been a victory for CLG. This is not the attitude that any team should take in regards to upcoming superstars. CLG should show a bit more respect to any team that are not themselves and work on their own play instead of criticizing every other team's.
As for us, we plan to continue to practice as much as possible and we will be playing on the Europe-West server in preparation for future tournaments. Also, on behalf of Team Solomid, we congratulate Moscow 5 for their victory over us in the grand finals of IntelEM Kiev in the best matches of the tournament. I wish them the best of luck in upcoming events and in the rest of their LoL careers. Sometime I see solomid as a team of kids, with all their "bro" and "dude", but some other time they impress me with their sportmanship, especially in defeat, like that time when TRM just said they lost because their opponent played better. This is a great answer, it was TSM vs M5 and not TRM vs Dar1en, and all that bash on TRM and now theoddone seems very very mean. Just accept the defeat, as cocky as they were M5 were just impressive. lol, Regi just had to fire something back, and the best way to save face in this situation is by saying that their opponents were good, not that they were bad. This statement from Regi is almost more childish than Saint's reddit post to be honest. If Jatt writes another analysis post and bashes their decisions, is he going to throw out another blog entry to say how Jatt isn't competitive anymore and shouldn't be talking? If they are going to man up and take criticisms, this post was completely unnecessary. That the post went up at all is an indication that they are still hung up over it and in fact, didn't want to take criticisms. Especially not from a rival team that they feel like is worse than them. I think you didn't understand his point at all. It's not about the criticising, it's about criticising one specific player and not the team as a whole, in which he is completly right. Just like Xspecial answers to saintvicious on reddit : it's about TSM's bad decision, and not TRM or TOO's individuals skills. That is silly, TSM made a bad decision, that doesn't mean that the individual players performed up to par. The team's bad decision made these two the spotlight and placed additional responsibility on them to not fail. When people perform under such pressure, we call them good players. When they fail, we recognize that they themselves have a part of the blame, but it isn't entirely their fault. The team as a whole were required to adapt to the situation that they are placed in, but most of all the players that are stuck in the thick of it (in this case, jungle and top) have to understand their position and play to make the most of it. That didn't happen. To ignore one side of the problems and lump it all on the other is nonsensical. Saint's post was criticism for the sake of criticism. Regi was just saving face and letting out some steam. There was nothing sportsman like here to commend.
It's not silly, it's how it is, a team game... Regi is defending the integrity of his team, and it's perfectly normal when you read all the shit TRM is getting on reddit, despite being one of the most efficient solo top in the tourney (with something like 7/1/8 KDA).
And saying congrats to M5, especially considering the history between the teams, is pretty classy, weither you like it or not.
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On January 24 2012 01:08 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:03 Shiv. wrote:On January 24 2012 01:00 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:On January 24 2012 00:51 Shiv. wrote:On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. He needs the Philo to sustain himself in the jungle (he needs both mana and HP regen) and most Nocs get a HoG anyway. Edit: also, how do you get them way too late? Without any successful ganks, you should have both GP10s+Boots at around 8-10 minutes and then start working on your Wriggle's. I don't see how that is too late. Besides, Wriggle's don't exactly turn your ganks into beasts, it does not offer THAT much damage after all. You want GP10s in the new jungle because of it's nature, and you want Wriggle's to keep up with your clearing speed. I don't see how it DOESN'T make sense. How about wriggles into gp10? Why would you? Seriously, if you get an early gank in, you have your philo like 4 minutes in. I don't see how Wriggle's before Philo+HoG does Jarvan any good. Hmm that makes sense I guess. But do you really need to rush BOTH before wriggles? Maybe HoG after wriggles? I dunno, I just feel uncomfortable delaying wriggles that long. Btw I'm just a noob trying to learn the thought-process behind these decisions.
I am sure you can get away with Wriggle's->Philo->HoG, Philo->Wriggle's->HoG AND Philo->HoG->Wriggle's.
The reason I like Philo -> HoG -> Wriggle's the best is based on this thought process:
You can get away with starting Regrowth+Pot instead of Cloth+5 without delaying your jungling speed or ganking potential at all. Obviously, you want to do that, because who likes burning 150 gold on pots? I like to take advantage of Jarman's strong lvl 2 ganks, so I do wolves->blue->gank, resulting in FB more often than not. You potentially have your Philo finished before you even touched your wraith camp. I like to grab boots after that and the reason I do not go Wriggle's at this point is that the jungle mobs are still pretty weak and the earlier you get HoG, the better your gold income. I don't see Wriggle's benefiting me at all at this point while the HoG sets you up for insane mid game dominance. You still clear your jungle fast without the proccs, you don't really need the armor of life steal at this point, the damage you get from wriggle's won't improve your ganks all that much, seeing how reliant you are on your team mates to follow up correctly either way. (See Smash's post for elaboration). If everything goes well enough, you still have your wriggle's 12-15 minutes in.
Personally, I realized I do better copying someone who actually has a clue and is good at this game and his playstyle rather than trying to figure out everything on my own. I don't have the time to do so at the moment and I have no urge to feel like a unique little snow flake. I have read Smash's guide, tried it, tried changing things up a little, ended up pretty much where I started. It works really well for me and even after thinking it through, I see no reason not to get 2 GP10 before your Wriggle's.
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On January 24 2012 01:47 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:40 Ecael wrote:On January 24 2012 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 24 2012 00:31 Ecael wrote:On January 23 2012 22:36 WhiteDog wrote:On January 23 2012 20:58 wussleeQ wrote:Oh man. Regi responding to SV's reddit post. and also + Show Spoiler +http://solomid.net/blog.php?v=18322Him Quoting Saintvicious
"eh.... aggressive counter-jungling takes advantage of weak junglers and weak lane picks.
Moscow 5 took advantage of rain mans weak top lane performance/picks as well as oddones poor adaptability. I was really disappointed in how oddone played and I thought he would adapt better. Moscow 5 knows how to group and plays well in that sense but I think the aggressive counter jungling strat is extremely flawed and would not work against a solid jungler/top lane. CLG EU has shown this with their consistant wins vs moscow 5 in scrims."
"Also for people who say clg comes off as arrogant, clg as hands down double if not tripple any teams overall tourney wins on the history of competitive league. We are also one of the oldest teams in league as well. I give my opinion from that point and nothing else. It's like John Madden critiquing a play in football and then someone coming out and saying madden is an arrogant idiot for doing so. I speak from a long line of experience and nothin more.
M5 is going to end up being the next dig, do well one tourney and get overhyped." ENDQUOTE
Team Solomid has always had a very outspoken attitude and it is a trait that has garnered the love and hope of so many fans. TSM has not had an amazing track record in tournaments and while we relish our victories, we show humility in defeat. Unfortunately, not every team follows our same philosophy, as one could see from the above quote on Reddit from CLG's Saintvicious.
All teams appreciate constructive criticism, however Saint's comments were anything but. While Saintvicious and TheOddOne do have an intense rivalry, there is a limit. As a team, we acknowledge our own mistakes and work to address them, but Saint's comments on a public forum are ones stemming from arrogance and are of no reasonable value. This isn't the first time, after MLG Providece, HotshotGG posted on Reddit stating, "my hero repertoire hard counters their Yorick, I know it wouldn't have been a problem for me." Instead of congratulating TheRainMan on his impressive play at MLG, he instead claims that if it were him there, there would simply be no contest between the two.
Though Saintvicious claims that "he speaks from a long line of experience," CLG has not won a single LAN tournament with their full roster since WCG 2010, including a 0-2 loss to MiG in the recent Korean tournament in which CLG was the only western team present. CLG speaks with authority, but lacks the force to back it up and it has been showing with their recent slump resulting in the departure of long-time member, Elementz.
Moscow 5 played amazing at IntelEM Kiev, impressing everyone and garnering the attention of hundreds of thousands worldwide. Despite such an impressive play, CLG's only comment are that they will never become a top tier team and that had CLG been there, it would have been a victory for CLG. This is not the attitude that any team should take in regards to upcoming superstars. CLG should show a bit more respect to any team that are not themselves and work on their own play instead of criticizing every other team's.
As for us, we plan to continue to practice as much as possible and we will be playing on the Europe-West server in preparation for future tournaments. Also, on behalf of Team Solomid, we congratulate Moscow 5 for their victory over us in the grand finals of IntelEM Kiev in the best matches of the tournament. I wish them the best of luck in upcoming events and in the rest of their LoL careers. Sometime I see solomid as a team of kids, with all their "bro" and "dude", but some other time they impress me with their sportmanship, especially in defeat, like that time when TRM just said they lost because their opponent played better. This is a great answer, it was TSM vs M5 and not TRM vs Dar1en, and all that bash on TRM and now theoddone seems very very mean. Just accept the defeat, as cocky as they were M5 were just impressive. lol, Regi just had to fire something back, and the best way to save face in this situation is by saying that their opponents were good, not that they were bad. This statement from Regi is almost more childish than Saint's reddit post to be honest. If Jatt writes another analysis post and bashes their decisions, is he going to throw out another blog entry to say how Jatt isn't competitive anymore and shouldn't be talking? If they are going to man up and take criticisms, this post was completely unnecessary. That the post went up at all is an indication that they are still hung up over it and in fact, didn't want to take criticisms. Especially not from a rival team that they feel like is worse than them. I think you didn't understand his point at all. It's not about the criticising, it's about criticising one specific player and not the team as a whole, in which he is completly right. Just like Xspecial answers to saintvicious on reddit : it's about TSM's bad decision, and not TRM or TOO's individuals skills. That is silly, TSM made a bad decision, that doesn't mean that the individual players performed up to par. The team's bad decision made these two the spotlight and placed additional responsibility on them to not fail. When people perform under such pressure, we call them good players. When they fail, we recognize that they themselves have a part of the blame, but it isn't entirely their fault. The team as a whole were required to adapt to the situation that they are placed in, but most of all the players that are stuck in the thick of it (in this case, jungle and top) have to understand their position and play to make the most of it. That didn't happen. To ignore one side of the problems and lump it all on the other is nonsensical. Saint's post was criticism for the sake of criticism. Regi was just saving face and letting out some steam. There was nothing sportsman like here to commend. It's not silly, it's how it is, a team game... Regi is defending the integrity of his team, and it's perfectly normal when you read all the shit TRM is getting on reddit, despite being one of the most efficient solo top in the tourney (with something like 7/1/8 KDA). And saying congrats to M5, especially considering the history of the teams, is pretty classy, weither you like it or not.
When did we chalk every problem in a team game to the decision of a team and not the performance of the individual? Yes, the Reddit bandwagon is retarded and TRM isn't entirely at fault. That in no way absolves him of all responsibility. That just means that his performance needs to be viewed with the team's decision in mind. He still didn't do well. You are not "defending the integrity" of a team by saying that they made a mistake as a team and ignoring all the other aspects of the individual plays. If Regi stayed silent, then I wouldn't really have minded much. But if he is going to bother to talk back, then I'd much rather not see half-assed talks about how they work as a team mixed with retorts about CLG being CLG.
Lip service is lip service. TSM is doing better than say, CLG. But if we are to look that far down for sportsmanship we might as well as not look at all. People all shake hands after say, a match of tennis. Does that automatically make every tennis player a stellar example of sportsmanship?
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On January 24 2012 01:47 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:25 Mogwai wrote:On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. nocturne's main purpose in ganks is to deal damage. he doesn't have an instant gap closer, or instant CC, so he cannot really come in relying on teammates for damage. he also does 1 spell/camp to clear with mostly autoattacking. Jarman has an instant gap closer that CCs opponents with a 2nd form of CC to follow up with, letting him lean more heavily on teammate damage. He does 2 spells/camp to clear and relies on those spells base damages moreso than auto-attacking. There's nothing wrong with going wriggle's first on Jarman, but I have had more success with double gold/10 pre-wriggle's than wriggle's rush on Jarman. Whenever I play top with bruiser, I go either wriggles first, or gp10, but rarely both. But for jarvan it makes plenty of sense to do it. Jarvan's mana problems almost requires some sort of mana regen item (philo stone), and adding more health through hog helps jarvan a lot. It synergizes with jarvan really well, as compared to other champions.
we're talking about jungle. It's rare that I get gold/10 in lane with Jarman as I never feel like I can delay the power in my build since Jarman's 1v1 power is relatively low (he's a teamfighter, not a duelist).
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On January 24 2012 01:56 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:47 WhiteDog wrote:On January 24 2012 01:40 Ecael wrote:On January 24 2012 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 24 2012 00:31 Ecael wrote:On January 23 2012 22:36 WhiteDog wrote:On January 23 2012 20:58 wussleeQ wrote:Oh man. Regi responding to SV's reddit post. and also + Show Spoiler +http://solomid.net/blog.php?v=18322Him Quoting Saintvicious
"eh.... aggressive counter-jungling takes advantage of weak junglers and weak lane picks.
Moscow 5 took advantage of rain mans weak top lane performance/picks as well as oddones poor adaptability. I was really disappointed in how oddone played and I thought he would adapt better. Moscow 5 knows how to group and plays well in that sense but I think the aggressive counter jungling strat is extremely flawed and would not work against a solid jungler/top lane. CLG EU has shown this with their consistant wins vs moscow 5 in scrims."
"Also for people who say clg comes off as arrogant, clg as hands down double if not tripple any teams overall tourney wins on the history of competitive league. We are also one of the oldest teams in league as well. I give my opinion from that point and nothing else. It's like John Madden critiquing a play in football and then someone coming out and saying madden is an arrogant idiot for doing so. I speak from a long line of experience and nothin more.
M5 is going to end up being the next dig, do well one tourney and get overhyped." ENDQUOTE
Team Solomid has always had a very outspoken attitude and it is a trait that has garnered the love and hope of so many fans. TSM has not had an amazing track record in tournaments and while we relish our victories, we show humility in defeat. Unfortunately, not every team follows our same philosophy, as one could see from the above quote on Reddit from CLG's Saintvicious.
All teams appreciate constructive criticism, however Saint's comments were anything but. While Saintvicious and TheOddOne do have an intense rivalry, there is a limit. As a team, we acknowledge our own mistakes and work to address them, but Saint's comments on a public forum are ones stemming from arrogance and are of no reasonable value. This isn't the first time, after MLG Providece, HotshotGG posted on Reddit stating, "my hero repertoire hard counters their Yorick, I know it wouldn't have been a problem for me." Instead of congratulating TheRainMan on his impressive play at MLG, he instead claims that if it were him there, there would simply be no contest between the two.
Though Saintvicious claims that "he speaks from a long line of experience," CLG has not won a single LAN tournament with their full roster since WCG 2010, including a 0-2 loss to MiG in the recent Korean tournament in which CLG was the only western team present. CLG speaks with authority, but lacks the force to back it up and it has been showing with their recent slump resulting in the departure of long-time member, Elementz.
Moscow 5 played amazing at IntelEM Kiev, impressing everyone and garnering the attention of hundreds of thousands worldwide. Despite such an impressive play, CLG's only comment are that they will never become a top tier team and that had CLG been there, it would have been a victory for CLG. This is not the attitude that any team should take in regards to upcoming superstars. CLG should show a bit more respect to any team that are not themselves and work on their own play instead of criticizing every other team's.
As for us, we plan to continue to practice as much as possible and we will be playing on the Europe-West server in preparation for future tournaments. Also, on behalf of Team Solomid, we congratulate Moscow 5 for their victory over us in the grand finals of IntelEM Kiev in the best matches of the tournament. I wish them the best of luck in upcoming events and in the rest of their LoL careers. Sometime I see solomid as a team of kids, with all their "bro" and "dude", but some other time they impress me with their sportmanship, especially in defeat, like that time when TRM just said they lost because their opponent played better. This is a great answer, it was TSM vs M5 and not TRM vs Dar1en, and all that bash on TRM and now theoddone seems very very mean. Just accept the defeat, as cocky as they were M5 were just impressive. lol, Regi just had to fire something back, and the best way to save face in this situation is by saying that their opponents were good, not that they were bad. This statement from Regi is almost more childish than Saint's reddit post to be honest. If Jatt writes another analysis post and bashes their decisions, is he going to throw out another blog entry to say how Jatt isn't competitive anymore and shouldn't be talking? If they are going to man up and take criticisms, this post was completely unnecessary. That the post went up at all is an indication that they are still hung up over it and in fact, didn't want to take criticisms. Especially not from a rival team that they feel like is worse than them. I think you didn't understand his point at all. It's not about the criticising, it's about criticising one specific player and not the team as a whole, in which he is completly right. Just like Xspecial answers to saintvicious on reddit : it's about TSM's bad decision, and not TRM or TOO's individuals skills. That is silly, TSM made a bad decision, that doesn't mean that the individual players performed up to par. The team's bad decision made these two the spotlight and placed additional responsibility on them to not fail. When people perform under such pressure, we call them good players. When they fail, we recognize that they themselves have a part of the blame, but it isn't entirely their fault. The team as a whole were required to adapt to the situation that they are placed in, but most of all the players that are stuck in the thick of it (in this case, jungle and top) have to understand their position and play to make the most of it. That didn't happen. To ignore one side of the problems and lump it all on the other is nonsensical. Saint's post was criticism for the sake of criticism. Regi was just saving face and letting out some steam. There was nothing sportsman like here to commend. It's not silly, it's how it is, a team game... Regi is defending the integrity of his team, and it's perfectly normal when you read all the shit TRM is getting on reddit, despite being one of the most efficient solo top in the tourney (with something like 7/1/8 KDA). And saying congrats to M5, especially considering the history of the teams, is pretty classy, weither you like it or not. When did we chalk every problem in a team game to the decision of a team and not the performance of the individual? Yes, the Reddit bandwagon is retarded and TRM isn't entirely at fault. That in no way absolves him of all responsibility. That just means that his performance needs to be viewed with the team's decision in mind. He still didn't do well. You are not "defending the integrity" of a team by saying that they made a mistake as a team and ignoring all the other aspects of the individual plays. If Regi stayed silent, then I wouldn't really have minded much. But if he is going to bother to talk back, then I'd much rather not see half-assed talks about how they work as a team mixed with retorts about CLG being CLG. Lip service is lip service. TSM is doing better than say, CLG. But if we are to look that far down for sportsmanship we might as well as not look at all. People all shake hands after say, a match of tennis. Does that automatically make every tennis player a stellar example of sportsmanship?
There are things you seems to fail to understand man... Of course they made mystakes, they lost that game you know. Nobody is denying this.
But is reddit, is saintvicious, or any other random reddit poster, well placed enough to criticise TSM ?
In france we say that dirty laundry is washed in familly. TSM will surely discussed together what was the reason of their loss, but not on reddit, and not with all the lol community giving their point of view.
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On January 24 2012 01:59 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:47 wei2coolman wrote:On January 24 2012 01:25 Mogwai wrote:On January 24 2012 00:35 koreasilver wrote:
Getting wriggles after philo and hog seems way too late. Wriggles allows you to farm faster and it makes your ganks stronger than philo + hog, and it gives you a lot of sustain. I haven't played Jarvan before so maybe I'm missing something, but it really doesn't make much sense to me. What exactly makes Jarvan different from Nocturne when it comes to the question of prioritizing between wriggles and gold? I'm really not seeing anything. nocturne's main purpose in ganks is to deal damage. he doesn't have an instant gap closer, or instant CC, so he cannot really come in relying on teammates for damage. he also does 1 spell/camp to clear with mostly autoattacking. Jarman has an instant gap closer that CCs opponents with a 2nd form of CC to follow up with, letting him lean more heavily on teammate damage. He does 2 spells/camp to clear and relies on those spells base damages moreso than auto-attacking. There's nothing wrong with going wriggle's first on Jarman, but I have had more success with double gold/10 pre-wriggle's than wriggle's rush on Jarman. Whenever I play top with bruiser, I go either wriggles first, or gp10, but rarely both. But for jarvan it makes plenty of sense to do it. Jarvan's mana problems almost requires some sort of mana regen item (philo stone), and adding more health through hog helps jarvan a lot. It synergizes with jarvan really well, as compared to other champions. we're talking about jungle. It's rare that I get gold/10 in lane with Jarman as I never feel like I can delay the power in my build since Jarman's 1v1 power is relatively low (he's a teamfighter, not a duelist).
Oh, wasn't keeping up with convo. tehehehe
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(Junglers not taken into account)
a) Enemy picks Irelia. You are allowed to counterpick top. Who do you pick and why?
b) Enemy picks Rumble. You are allowed to counterpick top. Who do you pick and why?
c) Enemy picks Kennen (let's assume we somehow know he will be top or mid & AP). You are allowed to counterpick. Who do you pick and why?
Those 3 are like the bane of my existance in lane. :S
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On January 24 2012 02:00 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:56 Ecael wrote:On January 24 2012 01:47 WhiteDog wrote:On January 24 2012 01:40 Ecael wrote:On January 24 2012 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 24 2012 00:31 Ecael wrote:On January 23 2012 22:36 WhiteDog wrote:On January 23 2012 20:58 wussleeQ wrote:Oh man. Regi responding to SV's reddit post. and also + Show Spoiler +http://solomid.net/blog.php?v=18322Him Quoting Saintvicious
"eh.... aggressive counter-jungling takes advantage of weak junglers and weak lane picks.
Moscow 5 took advantage of rain mans weak top lane performance/picks as well as oddones poor adaptability. I was really disappointed in how oddone played and I thought he would adapt better. Moscow 5 knows how to group and plays well in that sense but I think the aggressive counter jungling strat is extremely flawed and would not work against a solid jungler/top lane. CLG EU has shown this with their consistant wins vs moscow 5 in scrims."
"Also for people who say clg comes off as arrogant, clg as hands down double if not tripple any teams overall tourney wins on the history of competitive league. We are also one of the oldest teams in league as well. I give my opinion from that point and nothing else. It's like John Madden critiquing a play in football and then someone coming out and saying madden is an arrogant idiot for doing so. I speak from a long line of experience and nothin more.
M5 is going to end up being the next dig, do well one tourney and get overhyped." ENDQUOTE
Team Solomid has always had a very outspoken attitude and it is a trait that has garnered the love and hope of so many fans. TSM has not had an amazing track record in tournaments and while we relish our victories, we show humility in defeat. Unfortunately, not every team follows our same philosophy, as one could see from the above quote on Reddit from CLG's Saintvicious.
All teams appreciate constructive criticism, however Saint's comments were anything but. While Saintvicious and TheOddOne do have an intense rivalry, there is a limit. As a team, we acknowledge our own mistakes and work to address them, but Saint's comments on a public forum are ones stemming from arrogance and are of no reasonable value. This isn't the first time, after MLG Providece, HotshotGG posted on Reddit stating, "my hero repertoire hard counters their Yorick, I know it wouldn't have been a problem for me." Instead of congratulating TheRainMan on his impressive play at MLG, he instead claims that if it were him there, there would simply be no contest between the two.
Though Saintvicious claims that "he speaks from a long line of experience," CLG has not won a single LAN tournament with their full roster since WCG 2010, including a 0-2 loss to MiG in the recent Korean tournament in which CLG was the only western team present. CLG speaks with authority, but lacks the force to back it up and it has been showing with their recent slump resulting in the departure of long-time member, Elementz.
Moscow 5 played amazing at IntelEM Kiev, impressing everyone and garnering the attention of hundreds of thousands worldwide. Despite such an impressive play, CLG's only comment are that they will never become a top tier team and that had CLG been there, it would have been a victory for CLG. This is not the attitude that any team should take in regards to upcoming superstars. CLG should show a bit more respect to any team that are not themselves and work on their own play instead of criticizing every other team's.
As for us, we plan to continue to practice as much as possible and we will be playing on the Europe-West server in preparation for future tournaments. Also, on behalf of Team Solomid, we congratulate Moscow 5 for their victory over us in the grand finals of IntelEM Kiev in the best matches of the tournament. I wish them the best of luck in upcoming events and in the rest of their LoL careers. Sometime I see solomid as a team of kids, with all their "bro" and "dude", but some other time they impress me with their sportmanship, especially in defeat, like that time when TRM just said they lost because their opponent played better. This is a great answer, it was TSM vs M5 and not TRM vs Dar1en, and all that bash on TRM and now theoddone seems very very mean. Just accept the defeat, as cocky as they were M5 were just impressive. lol, Regi just had to fire something back, and the best way to save face in this situation is by saying that their opponents were good, not that they were bad. This statement from Regi is almost more childish than Saint's reddit post to be honest. If Jatt writes another analysis post and bashes their decisions, is he going to throw out another blog entry to say how Jatt isn't competitive anymore and shouldn't be talking? If they are going to man up and take criticisms, this post was completely unnecessary. That the post went up at all is an indication that they are still hung up over it and in fact, didn't want to take criticisms. Especially not from a rival team that they feel like is worse than them. I think you didn't understand his point at all. It's not about the criticising, it's about criticising one specific player and not the team as a whole, in which he is completly right. Just like Xspecial answers to saintvicious on reddit : it's about TSM's bad decision, and not TRM or TOO's individuals skills. That is silly, TSM made a bad decision, that doesn't mean that the individual players performed up to par. The team's bad decision made these two the spotlight and placed additional responsibility on them to not fail. When people perform under such pressure, we call them good players. When they fail, we recognize that they themselves have a part of the blame, but it isn't entirely their fault. The team as a whole were required to adapt to the situation that they are placed in, but most of all the players that are stuck in the thick of it (in this case, jungle and top) have to understand their position and play to make the most of it. That didn't happen. To ignore one side of the problems and lump it all on the other is nonsensical. Saint's post was criticism for the sake of criticism. Regi was just saving face and letting out some steam. There was nothing sportsman like here to commend. It's not silly, it's how it is, a team game... Regi is defending the integrity of his team, and it's perfectly normal when you read all the shit TRM is getting on reddit, despite being one of the most efficient solo top in the tourney (with something like 7/1/8 KDA). And saying congrats to M5, especially considering the history of the teams, is pretty classy, weither you like it or not. When did we chalk every problem in a team game to the decision of a team and not the performance of the individual? Yes, the Reddit bandwagon is retarded and TRM isn't entirely at fault. That in no way absolves him of all responsibility. That just means that his performance needs to be viewed with the team's decision in mind. He still didn't do well. You are not "defending the integrity" of a team by saying that they made a mistake as a team and ignoring all the other aspects of the individual plays. If Regi stayed silent, then I wouldn't really have minded much. But if he is going to bother to talk back, then I'd much rather not see half-assed talks about how they work as a team mixed with retorts about CLG being CLG. Lip service is lip service. TSM is doing better than say, CLG. But if we are to look that far down for sportsmanship we might as well as not look at all. People all shake hands after say, a match of tennis. Does that automatically make every tennis player a stellar example of sportsmanship? There are things you seems to fail to understand man... Of course they made mystakes, they lost that game you know. Nobody is denying this. But is reddit, is saintvicious, or any other random reddit poster, well placed enough to criticise TSM ? In france we say that dirty laundry is washed in familly. TSM will surely discussed together what was the reason of their loss, but not on reddit, and not with all the lol community giving their point of view.
Criticisms will come from everywhere once you reach a certain level of public fame, Regi firing back childishly is my issue with the response here. Words are cheap. My main point is that Regi did nothing commendable that I can see, not that others are justified.
A forum is a forum, you can't stop people from discussing from discussing your actions unless you moderate and censor the said forum. I am pretty disappointed at how TSM handled the finals myself even if I don't think that TRM did as badly as people are making him out to be given the situations.
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On January 24 2012 02:09 r.Evo wrote:
(Junglers not taken into account)
a) Enemy picks Irelia. You are allowed to counterpick top. Who do you pick and why?
b) Enemy picks Rumble. You are allowed to counterpick top. Who do you pick and why?
c) Enemy picks Kennen (let's assume we somehow know he will be top or mid & AP). You are allowed to counterpick. Who do you pick and why?
Those 3 are like the bane of my existance in lane. :S
Maybe it's just me and I don't lane a lot now, but my Vlad has always had really great success against all 3. Vlad op
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EPT
