EPT[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 16
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On January 18 2012 03:28 starfries wrote: Ghostblade/Brutalizer Ashe was my very first character, after I finished the tutorial and googled "Ashe guide" I think I ran Ghost/Revive because although the guide called for Flash I didn't have it and I thought Revive was the best thing ever edit: wow meant to hit edit, not quote :/ | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 18 2012 03:21 turdburgler wrote: but initiate isnt what your ad is for. whats the point of being the ad carry if your tool kit doesnt allow you to carry. compare her to vayne because they are both good at chasing down people. vayne doesnt need to land a hit to chase, and her passive out ranges attack ranges, ashe needs to be in range to continue to chase. vayne is just plain better. vayne also have a movement ability, allows better chasing and survival, ashe has her slow as her main ability, her passive is terrible in team fights as it only boost your late game crit by 10% (if your lucky) once. ashes stun allows the fight to start, but its a skill shot and scales from ap. this enable it to sometimes fail, vaynes stun is a target, requires some skill but even when its not possible to stun its still a peel of equal use to ashes. once the fight starts ashe has less damage straight up, vayne has small ad boost from ult and then silver bolts. ashe has her spread shot which deals moderate damage once. vayne again is just flat out superior. IF heroes like skarner, gp, rammus, amumu. and items like reverie didnt exist, ashe MIGHT be viable because of a unique ability to get the engage you want. but they do exist and they are in the form of either 1 item on 1 person, or a hero who is also strong. ashe has no niche and no damage. pretty easy to see why she fell off You say that like every team only needs one form of initiation and every other is wasted. Being able to ashe arrow something and then follow up with a Skarner ultimate or use one now and one before the other is off cooldown isn't bad. Having multiple initiations is a very good thing and opens more options. Your other problem is comparing one of the hardest scaling ad carries to the least scaling ad carries. If instead you compare say Ashe and Caitlyn who both don't really have much kit scaling damage. They each have a poke, but Ashe can initiate and Caitlyn can set up and control an area through traps. If you compare the raw damage output of Vayne to almost any of the ad carries (neglect Tristana/Kog'Maw) then they look awful if that's all you look at. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 18 2012 03:28 Slayer91 wrote: I wouldn't advise theorycrafting based on bad opponents. I've played warmogs/randuins/shurelyas sona in normals and just right clicked to the other end of their team and it won teamfights for us like 3 times in a row before they f igured out to ignore me. Yeah but sadly, this is what works in solo queue. People real dumb. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
What sets her appart from other carry is 1) her W that deal huge damage on tanky heroes 2) her ulti that tripple her passiv bonus. In fact her basic mov speed was already quite low. They should have nerfed their W and the bonus speed from her R (twice and not triple her passiv for exemple ?). But well who cares too late. I'm laughing at graves' nerfs... Also I just bought tryndalolololmere and they nerf it ;( | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
I think it gets a bad rap as 'antifun' because NA was so blatantly OP for some time in DotA, it really is an interesting mechanic that has incredible strategic depth and possibility in use. That's my main problem with Zilea philosophy. I agree that some mechanics are just blatantly unfun(most of his 'absolute no' mechanics come from hardcore RPGs though, where the intention is artificially gating players from progress to add a sort of game length or time requirement), but there are a lot of things that I don't see really hurting peoples enjoyment of the game that could add significantly to the competitive side of LoL(by adding depth to the game in general); but they are left alone because the designers don't want to risk the casual enjoyment on mechanics that require more complexity and higher levels of risk/reward from the player. Edit: To add to this, I think this is exactly why I feel like Blizzards 'DotA' will 'fail'(in the sense that it is supposed to be DotA, not that it won't be popular), because they're afraid of the required learning curve of the genre. Now, the designers at Blizzard are certainly better at their jobs than I am(lol), but I just can't think of how you keep complex high risk mechanics in the game without them requiring a learning curve. If they blend the two that would be magnificent(it's clearly their goal, as they have said they want 'easy to learn, hard to master.' That could just end up like LoL though, where learning the mechanics is very easy, mastering the flow of the game and the level of teamwork required is still difficult though). | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On January 18 2012 03:41 sob3k wrote: No, truly skilled teams run Tf mid GP top and GP10 Ashe maxing hawkshot first. Farm until the gold spills onto the ground. jungle ashe maxing hawkshot with a tf in the team would get like 10 gold / small creep. the farm would be pretty crazy | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On January 18 2012 03:48 red_ wrote: FWIW Mana Burn would've never been overpowered in LoL unless they just completely fucked up the numbers. Mana is so much more meaningless(or literally non existent for many) in this game in the sense that is more abundant, regens faster, and generally is less costly per ability. I think it gets a bad rap as 'antifun' because NA was so blatantly OP for some time in DotA, it really is an interesting mechanic that has incredible strategic depth and possibility in use. That's my main problem with Zilea philosophy. I agree that some mechanics are just blatantly unfun(most of his 'absolute no' mechanics come from hardcore RPGs though, where the intention is artificially gating players from progress to add a sort of game length or time requirement), but there are a lot of things that I don't see really hurting peoples enjoyment of the game that could add significantly to the competitive side of LoL(by adding depth to the game in general); but they are left alone because the designers don't want to risk the casual enjoyment on mechanics that require more complexity and higher levels of risk/reward from the player. There was a Mana Burn in LoL, it was called Wit's End before they changed (nerfed) it. It was dumb because it allowed AD carries/anyone with high AS to completely shut down casters. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 18 2012 03:54 Requizen wrote: There was a Mana Burn in LoL, it was called Wit's End before they changed (nerfed) it. also it was pretty OP. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Niche item used by WW because he proc'd it quickly with his ult = OP? Wit's End before the remake was hardly a commonly bought item. Edit: Also, it fucked over 'tanks' far more than it had any effect on casters walking around with RoA's and blue buffs. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Like getting mana burned on ezreal sucked, same with other champs who had small mana pools but relied on abilities. On the other hand most aps who you actually would want to burn have huge mana pools thanks to items, and the simple fact that they just burst the shit out of everyone and it doesnt really matter if they have mana or not afterwards. So realistically it was a concept carried over from an older game into a game that had no use for it. | ||
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 18 2012 04:00 Two_DoWn wrote: The problem with mana burn in lol is that for most champs getting burned is meaningless, while for a select few it basically destroys that champion. Like getting mana burned on ezreal sucked, same with other champs who had small mana pools but relied on abilities. On the other hand most aps who you actually would want to burn have huge mana pools thanks to items, and the simple fact that they just burst the shit out of everyone and it doesnt really matter if they have mana or not afterwards. So realistically it was a concept carried over from an older game into a game that had no use for it. It's why they removed it, either you bought wit's end and it was really really good, or it was really bad and you didn't even notice it. | ||
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warscythes
365 Posts
On January 18 2012 04:02 dooraven wrote: Great comeback by CLG eu in scrim 1. Krepo's calls are amazing. Do you remember the line up for both teams? | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On January 18 2012 04:02 JackDino wrote: It's why they removed it, either you bought wit's end and it was really really good, or it was really bad and you didn't even notice it. yep | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 18 2012 03:59 red_ wrote: Niche item used by WW because he proc'd it quickly with his ult = OP? Wit's End before the remake was hardly a commonly bought item. Edit: Also, it fucked over 'tanks' far more than it had any effect on casters walking around with RoA's and blue buffs. people didn't buy it because they were retards back then, lol. Teemo vs. mana user in lane was basically the most lopsided shit even when you got wit's end. and yea, it fucked tanks over far more than casters. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On January 18 2012 04:06 Zhiroo wrote: What about having a champ with some mana burn spell? I always thought why there isn't one like that. Same problem as wits. Its either great against some champs or shitty against others. And silence is overall a much better mechanic than mana burn. | ||
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