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[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 18

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Public Service Announcement
Use the Champion threads whenever appropriate.
Don't use General Discussion simply out of ease.
=====
If you want to whine about server lag, use the QQ thread. We all suffer alike when Riot servers kaput. No need to make a post about it in GD.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
January 17 2012 20:00 GMT
#341
On January 18 2012 04:45 NeoIllusions wrote:
trololol... talking to Smash about Jangle Jarman over AIM right now.

fkin saint goes 6 0 7 off Vamp, Wriggles, Merc, HoG, Atma, Phage.
dat build.

starting vamp is a bit goofy, but I still think you just underestimate the raw efficiency of atma's. you really don't need much for it to be a good item when you use AD, Crit and Amor.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
warscythes
Profile Joined December 2011
365 Posts
January 17 2012 20:01 GMT
#342
On January 18 2012 04:58 Offhand wrote:
Item changes for Teemo? Want to run ionic, wits, and nashors on Teemo now.


Personally I don't think nashor is great on teemo.

I think right now is probably like wriggles(sustain+pushing+ward)/boots/ionic spark(on hit, more pushing, bit hp for teemo taunt, aspd)/wits end(standard on hit)/mallet(for kiting)/

Dunno what to do with the last 2 slots though.
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
January 17 2012 20:01 GMT
#343
On January 18 2012 05:00 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 04:45 NeoIllusions wrote:
trololol... talking to Smash about Jangle Jarman over AIM right now.

fkin saint goes 6 0 7 off Vamp, Wriggles, Merc, HoG, Atma, Phage.
dat build.

starting vamp is a bit goofy, but I still think you just underestimate the raw efficiency of atma's. you really don't need much for it to be a good item when you use AD, Crit and Amor.

If you have like, 2k hp(he had hog and phage), that's 40 ad, that's like almost a bf.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
G3CKO
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1430 Posts
January 17 2012 20:04 GMT
#344
Sejuani's kit just doesn't make sense.
┌⋉⊳∀⊲) ☆ If your soul has not truly given up, then you can hear the sound that races through the end of the world.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 17 2012 20:05 GMT
#345
On January 18 2012 05:01 warscythes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 04:58 Offhand wrote:
Item changes for Teemo? Want to run ionic, wits, and nashors on Teemo now.


Personally I don't think nashor is great on teemo.

I think right now is probably like wriggles(sustain+pushing+ward)/boots/ionic spark(on hit, more pushing, bit hp for teemo taunt, aspd)/wits end(standard on hit)/mallet(for kiting)/

Dunno what to do with the last 2 slots though.

I usually start with Malady just so the magic damage hits that much harder, but the scaling on it is kinda eh. Atma is decent for the armor and random auto damage boost. Zhonya's is funny for your global taunt.
It's your boy Guzma!
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-17 20:08:49
January 17 2012 20:06 GMT
#346
On January 18 2012 05:05 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 05:01 warscythes wrote:
On January 18 2012 04:58 Offhand wrote:
Item changes for Teemo? Want to run ionic, wits, and nashors on Teemo now.


Personally I don't think nashor is great on teemo.

I think right now is probably like wriggles(sustain+pushing+ward)/boots/ionic spark(on hit, more pushing, bit hp for teemo taunt, aspd)/wits end(standard on hit)/mallet(for kiting)/

Dunno what to do with the last 2 slots though.

I usually start with Malady just so the magic damage hits that much harder, but the scaling on it is kinda eh. Atma is decent for the armor and random auto damage boost. Zhonya's is funny for your global taunt.

Full AP is the only build, shroom everything and push, anyone who comes runs trough a field of 1k dmg shrooms. Shroom around baron, farm bot and deny enemy baron.
Saint:Luckily mundo is really good at csing under the tower. He literally missed half the cs.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
January 17 2012 20:18 GMT
#347
nashors got buffed really hard, wouldn't be surprised if it's playable now
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 17 2012 20:23 GMT
#348
On January 18 2012 05:18 UniversalSnip wrote:
nashors got buffed really hard, wouldn't be surprised if it's playable now

I suppose, but it's still really niche. I really only see it on Kayle and Teemo (maybe hybrid TF, I guess), neither of whom are superstars right now. That said, 100g less and +10 AP is pretty nice for them.
It's your boy Guzma!
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
January 17 2012 20:24 GMT
#349
On January 18 2012 05:06 JackDino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 05:05 Requizen wrote:
On January 18 2012 05:01 warscythes wrote:
On January 18 2012 04:58 Offhand wrote:
Item changes for Teemo? Want to run ionic, wits, and nashors on Teemo now.


Personally I don't think nashor is great on teemo.

I think right now is probably like wriggles(sustain+pushing+ward)/boots/ionic spark(on hit, more pushing, bit hp for teemo taunt, aspd)/wits end(standard on hit)/mallet(for kiting)/

Dunno what to do with the last 2 slots though.

I usually start with Malady just so the magic damage hits that much harder, but the scaling on it is kinda eh. Atma is decent for the armor and random auto damage boost. Zhonya's is funny for your global taunt.

Full AP is the only build, shroom everything and push, anyone who comes runs trough a field of 1k dmg shrooms. Shroom around baron, farm bot and deny enemy baron.
Saint:Luckily mundo is really good at csing under the tower. He literally missed half the cs.

Nashor's is an excellent compliment to that build I would say, CDR gives him more shrooms, the attack speed will multiply decently with the AP on his poison, and it also throws in more AP.

But I'm not sure how serious you are anyway, Teemo is such a strange champion :|
3.
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
January 17 2012 20:24 GMT
#350
I'm thinking Nashor's on Jax might actually be pretty good
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-17 20:28:16
January 17 2012 20:27 GMT
#351
On January 17 2012 12:37 TheYango wrote:
I'm confused why Riot has this weird attitude about Crystal Slash.

Why are the only choices between low and flat mana cost, and high and scaling? Why couldn't they have just made the mana cost 22 flat at all ranks, instead of having scaling mana cost?

Yeah, this confuses me too. They go and DOUBLE/HALVE the cost on it every time they change it. 20-25 flat or so would have been fine. 15 was so low that you ignored your mana bar and just pressed it always [even when not killing things to keep your GRB stacks!] and now its so high that you need to hog blue :/

They need to realize that adding 13 mana cost to a skill with 3 seconds CD (faster really, when you're attacking) is not the same as adding 10 mana cost to skills with 8-10 second CD.

At least shurelia/glacial shround is standard so it should still give him the mana he needs?
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-17 20:28:39
January 17 2012 20:27 GMT
#352
On January 18 2012 05:24 Inschato wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 05:06 JackDino wrote:
On January 18 2012 05:05 Requizen wrote:
On January 18 2012 05:01 warscythes wrote:
On January 18 2012 04:58 Offhand wrote:
Item changes for Teemo? Want to run ionic, wits, and nashors on Teemo now.


Personally I don't think nashor is great on teemo.

I think right now is probably like wriggles(sustain+pushing+ward)/boots/ionic spark(on hit, more pushing, bit hp for teemo taunt, aspd)/wits end(standard on hit)/mallet(for kiting)/

Dunno what to do with the last 2 slots though.

I usually start with Malady just so the magic damage hits that much harder, but the scaling on it is kinda eh. Atma is decent for the armor and random auto damage boost. Zhonya's is funny for your global taunt.

Full AP is the only build, shroom everything and push, anyone who comes runs trough a field of 1k dmg shrooms. Shroom around baron, farm bot and deny enemy baron.
Saint:Luckily mundo is really good at csing under the tower. He literally missed half the cs.

Nashor's is an excellent compliment to that build I would say, CDR gives him more shrooms, the attack speed will multiply decently with the AP on his poison, and it also throws in more AP.

But I'm not sure how serious you are anyway, Teemo is such a strange champion :|

Not serious enough to do it in a ranked game:p
They should've kept skarners Q mana cost 15/20 at lower lvls, atleast at rank 1 and increase it at higher lvls.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
January 17 2012 20:28 GMT
#353
its ok to hog blue though because you can just pick rumble or kennen and have an op mage who doesnt even have a mana bar to ignore.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 17 2012 20:28 GMT
#354
On January 18 2012 05:24 starfries wrote:
I'm thinking Nashor's on Jax might actually be pretty good

Actually, I wonder how he'd do with some CDR items as well. Max CDR = Counterstrike at 7.8 second CD? Not too terrible.
It's your boy Guzma!
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
January 17 2012 20:36 GMT
#355
Nashor's on Cho and possibly Skarner. I wouldn't get it on Teemo, and probably not on Kayle either.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5714 Posts
January 17 2012 20:38 GMT
#356
On January 18 2012 04:27 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 04:22 Takkara wrote:
I've been playing some SWTOR PvP lately with buddies of mine, and while we rant about the state of their release balance, we have been talking about anti-fun with respect to the classes and figuring out what should and should not be nerfed.

Two examples on different sides of the anti-fun spectrum are the Mercenary and the Operative.

The Mercenary is mentioned quite a bit in "who is most OP" because of a single spammable ability they have that does high damage from range and has a high critical percentage. If a Mercenary gets a good vantage point and catches someone in the open, they can shread pretty much any class in the game. However, despite this the Mercenary should not be considered OP nor should the Tracer Missile be considered anti-fun. An opponent who is being spammed has the opportunity to find line-of-sight to escape being spammed, they could gap-close to interrupt the missile spam, or they avoid the Mercenary altogether and not be caught in the open in the first place. As an opposing player, I can make mistakes, and be punished for them, but I should always be able to say to myself that there was a way to avoid my fate that is roughly on par in terms of difficulty (relative to what I would do normally) with what the Mercenary player must do to cause me to make that mistake.

The Operative comes at this from another angle. The Operative has stealth, some long-length stuns, and incredible burst. (As a point of comparison, the Operative can open from stealth with a 4k single hit against people with an average of 12-16k life, and the full burst goes about 8-12k from stealth during stun). If an Operative catches you from stealth, you will be at roughly 25% or less of your total life before you regain control of your character to respond. Even if you immediately counter their stun, they can generally still run the rest of their burst combo at slightly reduced effectiveness. But, sheer lethality is not why the class is anti-fun. If you happen to have a healer that heals you through the initial burst, then the Operative almost auto-loses because of their low-level of survivability and generally low non-burst damage output. So, an entire fight revolves around this odd binary (can the Operative open on you/kill you in his opener). If yes, he wins. If no, you win. There's no compelling gameplay, not much in the way of mitigation play on either side, and opening on someone from stealth generally takes a low-level of skill relative to the skill and level of preparation required to prevent it. It's also not well-designed or fun for the Operative, because if he fails to kill someone with his burst, then he dies or is forced to run with little opportunity to make a winning play.

These are generalities, so if you are familiar with SWTOR and think this is too high-level or too-sweeping, then I apologize. However, I think it's interesting because in both cases people call the two things "OP", but the power-levels of the two classes/abilities are not what make them fun/anti-fun. OP/UP is, in many ways, distinct from fun/anti-fun. Things can be OP and fun or UP and anti-fun. Most of the times when I consider the "fun" or "anti-fun" of things, I think about two things:

1) The amount of effort I, as the person employing the scrutinized class/character/ability, have to expend (relative to what you normally do) to put myself into a reasonable situation to succeed.
2) The amount of effort you, as the person against which the scrutinized class/character/ability is employed, have to expend (relative to what you normally do) to avoid having yourself be in a situation where you will not succeed.

In the end it's still subjective, but I like to think of it in these terms.

You know, people keep telling me how close SWToR is to WoW and I didn't believe it. But just looking at this description makes me think of old WoW PvP, back in the day when Rogues and PoMPyro Mages could instagib pretty much anyone out there, or old Frost Mages.

Good times, from a Mage player.


Dito good times from a Rogue player. Ye olden days of ambushing for 1k and BS'ing for ~600 when the classes literally have 2k HP max.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 17 2012 20:42 GMT
#357
I seriously think that the only 3 ways to open in jungle now are boots, regrowth, or vamp. Cloth 5 is dead, longsword is pointless, dblade kinda sucks cuz most champs dont have the movespeed to make it worthwhile.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
January 17 2012 20:50 GMT
#358
On January 18 2012 04:44 warscythes wrote:
I am assuming Vayne is still strong despite the QQ yes?

About Jarvan yea, his jungle was already pretty strong. It just get better now because he is not as dependent on blue buff. Jarvan's kit is broken so he gets strong pretty easily without huge buffs. Is just difficult for Jarvan to be terrible unless they nerf his kit or just chainsaw him.

Vayne is now on the same level as every other ad carry instead of being above them.

Jarvan has the same weakness all bruisers have, if they can't catch you, they can't kill you. Now he has a better kit with how much ground he could cover with qe flash and r, but if he does that all he can do is auto. If a bruiser dives onto you, peel and just kill him is usually the best solution.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
January 17 2012 20:50 GMT
#359
dblade isn't bad on everyone, clear hard and long with yi and olaf opening dblade
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-17 20:57:41
January 17 2012 20:56 GMT
#360
I liked that spells proced red buff, I'm kind of sad they removed it especially since it helps me secure kills on low dps junglers like malphite.
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