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On January 04 2012 10:50 Cloud9157 wrote:
What will stop the gankee from simply flashing away as soon as they see the big circle?
The fact that Pantheon's W will still hit them after flash if he queued it up? cmon man.
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On January 04 2012 10:50 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 10:40 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:33 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:22 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:19 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Are you suggesting that a gap closer is worse than a movespeed steroid? If you let Udyr walk up and bear you then you're doing it wrong as well. I suggest that Panth's is. Care to elaborate why is that? k I'm going to compare his gap closing ability to the champions I mentioned in my OP (Trundle Irelia Renek Udyr) Trundle without a doubt has amazing gap closing. Movement speed+reduced CC when on Contaminate. Irelia has BS that is similar to Panth's W (minus the stun) but her passive makes her even stronger at getting close to a carry. Renek has double dash. Udyr is the one I was questioned about. First off, you're fucking udyr. You are tanky. Your MS is rivaled by few champions (Singed ult Trundle contaminate). Pantheon, I feel, doesn't have the best ability to be a top lane bruiser. Not tanky compared to commonly ran top lanes and no form of CC reduction. Like I mentioned, if you land W on a carry, game over, but treat Panth like you would Yi: CC the fuck out of him. If he never gets in range of a carry, he does shit all. Udyr is much harder for this to apply to, as pretty much every Udyr that I've seen gets Merc Treads, where as pretty much every Pantheon I've seen gets zerkers. Just my observations. I've had a few Panths on my team, and most of the time they were unable to really do that much damage as a bruiser. I'm really not trying to be a dick, but your opinions on Panth are hardly valid if they are based on Panths who get Zerkers. That being said, Ult-W is barely dodgable because it will cast way beyond it's range if you smash W during your ult and what exactly is gonna stop you from Flash -> W? I'm not sure how you can defend Panth being a bruiser when he gets zerkers. He will get CC raped. What will stop the gankee from simply flashing away as soon as they see the big circle? I understand Panth isn't meant to be a bruiser top, but this all goes back to that I'd rather have someone top that will still be of more use than him mid/late game. edit: Ryuu how is his gap closing possibly better than Trundle's? AoE slow, and Contaminate gives him reduced CC effects and MS. Udyr is better (imo) because he gets a steroid and can survive a lot of the damage thrown at him.
What are you talking about? I never said he was a bruiser and he is NOT supposed to get Zerkers at all.
They will still get hit by W, that's what stops them. Wasted flash.
If you play Panth and the enemy top laner reaches late game anywhere nearly as useful as you, you did something wrong.
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Stop trying to make people understand how good Pantheon is, goddammit! 
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On January 04 2012 11:15 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 10:50 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:40 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:33 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:22 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:19 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Are you suggesting that a gap closer is worse than a movespeed steroid? If you let Udyr walk up and bear you then you're doing it wrong as well. I suggest that Panth's is. Care to elaborate why is that? k I'm going to compare his gap closing ability to the champions I mentioned in my OP (Trundle Irelia Renek Udyr) Trundle without a doubt has amazing gap closing. Movement speed+reduced CC when on Contaminate. Irelia has BS that is similar to Panth's W (minus the stun) but her passive makes her even stronger at getting close to a carry. Renek has double dash. Udyr is the one I was questioned about. First off, you're fucking udyr. You are tanky. Your MS is rivaled by few champions (Singed ult Trundle contaminate). Pantheon, I feel, doesn't have the best ability to be a top lane bruiser. Not tanky compared to commonly ran top lanes and no form of CC reduction. Like I mentioned, if you land W on a carry, game over, but treat Panth like you would Yi: CC the fuck out of him. If he never gets in range of a carry, he does shit all. Udyr is much harder for this to apply to, as pretty much every Udyr that I've seen gets Merc Treads, where as pretty much every Pantheon I've seen gets zerkers. Just my observations. I've had a few Panths on my team, and most of the time they were unable to really do that much damage as a bruiser. I'm really not trying to be a dick, but your opinions on Panth are hardly valid if they are based on Panths who get Zerkers. That being said, Ult-W is barely dodgable because it will cast way beyond it's range if you smash W during your ult and what exactly is gonna stop you from Flash -> W? I'm not sure how you can defend Panth being a bruiser when he gets zerkers. He will get CC raped. What will stop the gankee from simply flashing away as soon as they see the big circle? I understand Panth isn't meant to be a bruiser top, but this all goes back to that I'd rather have someone top that will still be of more use than him mid/late game. edit: Ryuu how is his gap closing possibly better than Trundle's? AoE slow, and Contaminate gives him reduced CC effects and MS. Udyr is better (imo) because he gets a steroid and can survive a lot of the damage thrown at him. What are you talking about? I never said he was a bruiser and he is NOT supposed to get Zerkers at all. They will still get hit by W, that's what stops them. Wasted flash. If you play Panth and the enemy top laner reaches late game anywhere nearly as useful as you, you did something wrong.
You said my opinions can't be valid because I see Panths get zerkers... Therefore saying that I'm wrong about him not being a bruiser?
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On January 04 2012 11:52 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 11:15 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:50 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:40 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:33 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:22 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:19 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Are you suggesting that a gap closer is worse than a movespeed steroid? If you let Udyr walk up and bear you then you're doing it wrong as well. I suggest that Panth's is. Care to elaborate why is that? k I'm going to compare his gap closing ability to the champions I mentioned in my OP (Trundle Irelia Renek Udyr) Trundle without a doubt has amazing gap closing. Movement speed+reduced CC when on Contaminate. Irelia has BS that is similar to Panth's W (minus the stun) but her passive makes her even stronger at getting close to a carry. Renek has double dash. Udyr is the one I was questioned about. First off, you're fucking udyr. You are tanky. Your MS is rivaled by few champions (Singed ult Trundle contaminate). Pantheon, I feel, doesn't have the best ability to be a top lane bruiser. Not tanky compared to commonly ran top lanes and no form of CC reduction. Like I mentioned, if you land W on a carry, game over, but treat Panth like you would Yi: CC the fuck out of him. If he never gets in range of a carry, he does shit all. Udyr is much harder for this to apply to, as pretty much every Udyr that I've seen gets Merc Treads, where as pretty much every Pantheon I've seen gets zerkers. Just my observations. I've had a few Panths on my team, and most of the time they were unable to really do that much damage as a bruiser. I'm really not trying to be a dick, but your opinions on Panth are hardly valid if they are based on Panths who get Zerkers. That being said, Ult-W is barely dodgable because it will cast way beyond it's range if you smash W during your ult and what exactly is gonna stop you from Flash -> W? I'm not sure how you can defend Panth being a bruiser when he gets zerkers. He will get CC raped. What will stop the gankee from simply flashing away as soon as they see the big circle? I understand Panth isn't meant to be a bruiser top, but this all goes back to that I'd rather have someone top that will still be of more use than him mid/late game. edit: Ryuu how is his gap closing possibly better than Trundle's? AoE slow, and Contaminate gives him reduced CC effects and MS. Udyr is better (imo) because he gets a steroid and can survive a lot of the damage thrown at him. What are you talking about? I never said he was a bruiser and he is NOT supposed to get Zerkers at all. They will still get hit by W, that's what stops them. Wasted flash. If you play Panth and the enemy top laner reaches late game anywhere nearly as useful as you, you did something wrong. You said my opinions can't be valid because I see Panths get zerkers... Therefore saying that I'm wrong about him not being a bruiser?
We are saying you are basing your opinions on bad Pantheons.
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On January 04 2012 11:52 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 11:15 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:50 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:40 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:33 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:22 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:19 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Are you suggesting that a gap closer is worse than a movespeed steroid? If you let Udyr walk up and bear you then you're doing it wrong as well. I suggest that Panth's is. Care to elaborate why is that? k I'm going to compare his gap closing ability to the champions I mentioned in my OP (Trundle Irelia Renek Udyr) Trundle without a doubt has amazing gap closing. Movement speed+reduced CC when on Contaminate. Irelia has BS that is similar to Panth's W (minus the stun) but her passive makes her even stronger at getting close to a carry. Renek has double dash. Udyr is the one I was questioned about. First off, you're fucking udyr. You are tanky. Your MS is rivaled by few champions (Singed ult Trundle contaminate). Pantheon, I feel, doesn't have the best ability to be a top lane bruiser. Not tanky compared to commonly ran top lanes and no form of CC reduction. Like I mentioned, if you land W on a carry, game over, but treat Panth like you would Yi: CC the fuck out of him. If he never gets in range of a carry, he does shit all. Udyr is much harder for this to apply to, as pretty much every Udyr that I've seen gets Merc Treads, where as pretty much every Pantheon I've seen gets zerkers. Just my observations. I've had a few Panths on my team, and most of the time they were unable to really do that much damage as a bruiser. I'm really not trying to be a dick, but your opinions on Panth are hardly valid if they are based on Panths who get Zerkers. That being said, Ult-W is barely dodgable because it will cast way beyond it's range if you smash W during your ult and what exactly is gonna stop you from Flash -> W? I'm not sure how you can defend Panth being a bruiser when he gets zerkers. He will get CC raped. What will stop the gankee from simply flashing away as soon as they see the big circle? I understand Panth isn't meant to be a bruiser top, but this all goes back to that I'd rather have someone top that will still be of more use than him mid/late game. edit: Ryuu how is his gap closing possibly better than Trundle's? AoE slow, and Contaminate gives him reduced CC effects and MS. Udyr is better (imo) because he gets a steroid and can survive a lot of the damage thrown at him. What are you talking about? I never said he was a bruiser and he is NOT supposed to get Zerkers at all. They will still get hit by W, that's what stops them. Wasted flash. If you play Panth and the enemy top laner reaches late game anywhere nearly as useful as you, you did something wrong. You said my opinions can't be valid because I see Panths get zerkers... Therefore saying that I'm wrong about him not being a bruiser?
I'm really confused right now. Where did I ever say he was a bruiser?
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On January 04 2012 10:08 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 09:21 Kaneh wrote:On January 04 2012 09:12 Cloud9157 wrote:
I don't get what the big deal about Pantheon is.
He has a ridiculous early game, but he is such garbage once mid game arrives. Also, I don't really like him taking up the top lane spot. Udyr Trundle Irelia and Renekton are all champions that I would rather have top over him. Sustain and amazing mobility, which should be used to jump on enemy carries. Pantheon's kit is just... Meh really. His ult hurts, but if you aren't being CC'd to hell, you can make it out of there easily. If he can land a W on a carry, then yeah, I think its over for that champ, but he has no means of getting close to people.
Thinking Udyr would just shit on this guy, along with Irelia when she gets later into the game. AS>Pantheon. 1) you underestimate burst 2) because you can't ward ult ganks. 3) jungle him sometime also, you really just said panth has no means of getting close? really? compared to like... udyr? really? 1 Given 2. His ult is shit and doesn't reach past mid from top. Like I said, his ult is just shit. Takes far too long for him to land. If anyone being ganked by it stays close enough for him to W right when he lands, then they're doing it wrong. 3. Have yet to see jungle Panth. Heard its good, but I was talking bout top Pantheon. I guess you have never heard of bear stance from Udyr... Really?
imagine if TFs ult did dmg, didnt have to wait to lock in gold card and point blank card throw hit for like twice as much
youve just made pantheon... :D
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Poor Saint. I'm impressed he kept his cool with such a terrible team, carrying them kicking and screaming only to have them throw the game.
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We're saying your opinion is uninformed because you're comparing a Mercs Udyr to a Zerker Pantheon. First of all when making item comparions you should make sure they cost about the same amount. Second of all, good pantheons buy mercs. If your sole reason for thinking Udyr's Bear > Pantheon W is that one has mercs and one doesn't then what if they both have mercs like any decent player would do?
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On January 04 2012 10:51 Abenson wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 10:48 Ryuu314 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:33 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:22 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:19 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Are you suggesting that a gap closer is worse than a movespeed steroid? If you let Udyr walk up and bear you then you're doing it wrong as well. I suggest that Panth's is. Care to elaborate why is that? k I'm going to compare his gap closing ability to the champions I mentioned in my OP (Trundle Irelia Renek Udyr) Trundle without a doubt has amazing gap closing. Movement speed+reduced CC when on Contaminate. Irelia has BS that is similar to Panth's W (minus the stun) but her passive makes her even stronger at getting close to a carry. Renek has double dash. Udyr is the one I was questioned about. First off, you're fucking udyr. You are tanky. Your MS is rivaled by few champions (Singed ult Trundle contaminate). Pantheon, I feel, doesn't have the best ability to be a top lane bruiser. Not tanky compared to commonly ran top lanes and no form of CC reduction. Like I mentioned, if you land W on a carry, game over, but treat Panth like you would Yi: CC the fuck out of him. If he never gets in range of a carry, he does shit all. Udyr is much harder for this to apply to, as pretty much every Udyr that I've seen gets Merc Treads, where as pretty much every Pantheon I've seen gets zerkers. Just my observations. I've had a few Panths on my team, and most of the time they were unable to really do that much damage as a bruiser. Panth gapcloser is by far stronger than any of the ones u mentioned except maybe renek and irelia. If it's not an instant gapcloser you can get kited super easily. and honestly, if you're basing your observations on pantheons who get zerkers i highly doubt you've seen good pantheons. zerkers are sometimes good on panth for splitpushing, but merc treads are much much better 99% of the time. Panth isn't worthless mid or even late game. His ability to blow squishies up last throughout the whole game. As panth, you want to be splitpushing and ulting into a teamfight, not acting as a tank or bruiser for your team. Anyone that watches Loci's stream can tell you that Panth is really strong late game and if built correctly can continue to do well lategame by hopping onto the enemy carry and split pushing
Even Loci's panth struggled to stay useful when the game got late enough and he'd usually be super fed.
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On January 04 2012 10:50 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 10:40 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:33 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:22 Shiv. wrote:On January 04 2012 10:19 Cloud9157 wrote:On January 04 2012 10:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Are you suggesting that a gap closer is worse than a movespeed steroid? If you let Udyr walk up and bear you then you're doing it wrong as well. I suggest that Panth's is. Care to elaborate why is that? k I'm going to compare his gap closing ability to the champions I mentioned in my OP (Trundle Irelia Renek Udyr) Trundle without a doubt has amazing gap closing. Movement speed+reduced CC when on Contaminate. Irelia has BS that is similar to Panth's W (minus the stun) but her passive makes her even stronger at getting close to a carry. Renek has double dash. Udyr is the one I was questioned about. First off, you're fucking udyr. You are tanky. Your MS is rivaled by few champions (Singed ult Trundle contaminate). Pantheon, I feel, doesn't have the best ability to be a top lane bruiser. Not tanky compared to commonly ran top lanes and no form of CC reduction. Like I mentioned, if you land W on a carry, game over, but treat Panth like you would Yi: CC the fuck out of him. If he never gets in range of a carry, he does shit all. Udyr is much harder for this to apply to, as pretty much every Udyr that I've seen gets Merc Treads, where as pretty much every Pantheon I've seen gets zerkers. Just my observations. I've had a few Panths on my team, and most of the time they were unable to really do that much damage as a bruiser. I'm really not trying to be a dick, but your opinions on Panth are hardly valid if they are based on Panths who get Zerkers. That being said, Ult-W is barely dodgable because it will cast way beyond it's range if you smash W during your ult and what exactly is gonna stop you from Flash -> W? I'm not sure how you can defend Panth being a bruiser when he gets zerkers. He will get CC raped. What will stop the gankee from simply flashing away as soon as they see the big circle? I understand Panth isn't meant to be a bruiser top, but this all goes back to that I'd rather have someone top that will still be of more use than him mid/late game. edit: Ryuu how is his gap closing possibly better than Trundle's? AoE slow, and Contaminate gives him reduced CC effects and MS. Udyr is better (imo) because he gets a steroid and can survive a lot of the damage thrown at him.
I'm really not sure how to convince you that an instant flash-like gapcloser with a stun is better than a simple movespeed boost...one can be kited and one can't? If you honestly believe Trundle and Udyr's gapclosing capabilities is stronger than Pantheon's then I suspect we have completely different views on what is "good."
You should watch smash or loci play some pantheon. Panth is definitely still really strong mid/late game. Like, there's no denying that champs like Udyr/Irelia definitely scale much much harder than Pantheon lategame, but Panth is still good at those stages of the game. At those stages of the game he's basically a splitpusher who can also assassinate squishies quite well. Ofc, if you think assassins are worthless in general then w/e.
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Smash playing Panth right now. Watch and learn.
edit: oh god the darth vader sounds lol
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It almost looks like he's in a slump.....really off his game. :S
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what's a good build for panth?
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On January 04 2012 12:50 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
what's a good build for panth?
boots 5x bt
i thinks standard
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Yeah sure. Make me read ANOTHER whole champion thread. As if I don't already spend half my day on TL 
@arb isn't that the standard build for sivir?? :O
Edit: holy shit. Giant wall of text by smash in that thread. Gotta read it asap
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United States37500 Posts
On January 04 2012 13:29 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Yeah sure. Make me read ANOTHER whole champion thread. As if I don't already spend half my day on TL @arb isn't that the standard build for sivir?? :O Edit: holy shit. Giant wall of text by smash in that thread. Gotta read it asap
L2TL son
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On January 04 2012 14:02 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 13:29 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Yeah sure. Make me read ANOTHER whole champion thread. As if I don't already spend half my day on TL @arb isn't that the standard build for sivir?? :O Edit: holy shit. Giant wall of text by smash in that thread. Gotta read it asap L2TL son
Have mercy on a TL noobie D:
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What exactly do you open with as jungle panth? I play jungle mostly and opening cloth with him seems very weak compared to other junglers. I tried opening boots too but if you fail to gank u just fall behind compared to their jungler.
I still haven't adapted to the new health pendant opening on junglers so that might be another possible opinion, although that seems like a bad idea on panth.
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