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M5 while not the favorites to win, will surely have a chance to prove themselves on big event as they've been doing good work in scrims against top teams lately.
TSM has been upping the scrimming lately, or at least been streaming them far more, so I'm hoping that pays off for them.
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On January 13 2012 06:15 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:11 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 06:05 Seuss wrote:On January 13 2012 05:50 Craton wrote:
Trynd is not going to have 2.0 attack speed until lategame, if at all. Not relevant in a laning scenario at all. 4 attacks is wishful thinking, but the ability is still relevant in a laning scenario. Even if Trynd has only 0.7 attack speed it'll be possible to dodge 2 attacks with a modicum of timing. Unless you have incredible and consistent luck that level of performance is ridiculously improbable with the current Counterstrike. At the moment Counterstrike grants 10% dodge at rank 1. If you assume every trade involves 10 auto attacks (which can hardly be called a "trade" at that point) the probability of dodging 2 or more attacks is only 26.4%. Even if you increase the number of attacks to 15 you still only have a 45% chance of dodging 2 or more attacks. Anything you can really call a trade is going to be on the order of 4-7 auto attacks at most, meaning 85-95% of the time the new Counterstrike will be better. All of the %s in the above post were calculated using a binomial distribution calculator. Edit: Jax very clearly auto-attacks while Counterstriking vs Tryndamere at ~4:55-5:00 in the spotlight. It's hard to tell in the timing, as he's still swinging his lantern above his head. Is it an attack or is it the stun damage? I'm pretty sure its not an attack. You notice that there's a pretty long delay during Counterstrike where Trynd is not taking damage.
At 4:56 you can see Tryndamere being damaged by a proc from Jax' ult, despite Counterstrike being in progress. At 4:59 there's still a quarter of the Counter-strike buff icon left to go and Tryndamere has mysteriously suffered a 175 critical. Where did those come from if not from auto-attacks?
Edit: The pretty long delay is because Phreak super-slowed down the video during that point in the exchange, hence the giant clock on the left side of the screen.
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Also- CLG:EU scrimmin TSM soon.
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On January 13 2012 06:18 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:15 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2012 06:11 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 06:05 Seuss wrote:On January 13 2012 05:50 Craton wrote:
Trynd is not going to have 2.0 attack speed until lategame, if at all. Not relevant in a laning scenario at all. 4 attacks is wishful thinking, but the ability is still relevant in a laning scenario. Even if Trynd has only 0.7 attack speed it'll be possible to dodge 2 attacks with a modicum of timing. Unless you have incredible and consistent luck that level of performance is ridiculously improbable with the current Counterstrike. At the moment Counterstrike grants 10% dodge at rank 1. If you assume every trade involves 10 auto attacks (which can hardly be called a "trade" at that point) the probability of dodging 2 or more attacks is only 26.4%. Even if you increase the number of attacks to 15 you still only have a 45% chance of dodging 2 or more attacks. Anything you can really call a trade is going to be on the order of 4-7 auto attacks at most, meaning 85-95% of the time the new Counterstrike will be better. All of the %s in the above post were calculated using a binomial distribution calculator. Edit: Jax very clearly auto-attacks while Counterstriking vs Tryndamere at ~4:55-5:00 in the spotlight. It's hard to tell in the timing, as he's still swinging his lantern above his head. Is it an attack or is it the stun damage? I'm pretty sure its not an attack. You notice that there's a pretty long delay during Counterstrike where Trynd is not taking damage. At 4:56 you can see Tryndamere being damaged by a proc from Jax' ult, despite Counterstrike being in progress. At 4:59 there's still a quarter of the Counter-strike buff icon left to go and Tryndamere has mysteriously suffered a 175 critical. Where did those come from if not from auto-attacks?
Possible, I agree, as Counter Strike can't crit. It might just be a delayed number coming up from the last attack before CS was put up, though.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 13 2012 06:16 daemir wrote:
M5 while not the favorites to win, will surely have a chance to prove themselves on big event as they've been doing good work in scrims against top teams lately.
This, 100%.
I could totally see M5 pulling upsets at Kiev. But again, they aren't going into their first IEM as favorites.
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On January 13 2012 06:15 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:10 dooraven wrote:
"@Neo- Meh, If it was old dig they would for sure be the number 2, but god, an already slumping Dig without their best player AND playcaller? I seriously think Dig may be dead as a top competitive team."
Wait what? Dignitas just won the last tournament they entered in. Dignitas does well whenever they practise because they have commitment issues. Whenever they practise they do well, whenever they don't have time they slump. They won a tourney which was missing 1 of the top 3 US teams, and won the finals over another top 3 team that was missing its usual line up. Was it a decent accomplishment? Sure. I just dont think they could stand up to a full EG, TSM, or (functioning) CLG.
Agreed on your points, I guess we will have to see in Kiev what Dignitas does.
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On January 13 2012 05:50 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 05:44 JackDino wrote:On January 13 2012 05:14 Seuss wrote:On January 13 2012 05:01 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 12 2012 20:33 RogerX wrote:
Well I agree, we'll just have to see his numbers when he becomes released into the wild.
well since his ult scales off AP and AD im curious to how his new build will be.
lol something metaish with a mix of AP perhaps?
lantern, Warmogs, atmas, ryalis, rageblade
trololol? idk, i can't think of an efficent build The thread moves faster than I can reverse engineer numbers, so pages have elapsed since the Jax discussion. However, here are the numbers on Jax' ult as they were in the spotlight. 20/35/50 AP/AD base, +20% of AP as additional AP and +20% of Bonus AD as additional AD. Bonuses are determined at cast time and do not update as buffs/procs fade. That ain't bad at all. Probably not strong enough to warrant building straight damage over tanky dps/bruiser/metablargl/whatever you want to call it, but pretty damn good. Do you happen to know the CD on it? Other than that, I kind of want to know the actual numbers on his new Counterstrike. I'm not on the bandwagon of "worst change ever", but they'll have to be pretty careful of making it too bad/good. The CD looks to be 75s at level 12 and 60s at level 18, so I assume it's probably 90s at level 6. The new Counterstrike reads to me like Jax can win exchanges at will against Tryndamere and Udyr, but I don't know of any other solo top champions who primarily auto-attack. The new counterstrike is trash against trynd, the old counterstrike is way better in lane. In no way is 2sec dodge on a 10sec cd better than having a passive dodge against autoattackers. 2 seconds of assured dodge against Trynd can very well block 4 attacks, and then he's stunned for ~1 second. 3 seconds of immunity to Trynd every ~10 seconds is technically better than his 5 seconds of immunity to death every 90 seconds. Of course, not as amazing against AP, but you get the idea.
In the spotlight, counter strike looks to have an 18 second cd at rank 1 (or 20 seconds from cast), and doesnt reach 10 until max rank. If Jax only trades when E is up, Udyr will out-sustain easily, while Trynd probably won't.
As far as trading goes, this is complete trash in comparison to Riven's 11/10/9/8/7 cd stun that has a 1.0 AD ratio and costs no mana, and her 1.0 AD 10/9/8/7/6 cd shield+dash that works against more than just auto-attacks. It is also free.
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On January 13 2012 06:26 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 05:50 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 05:44 JackDino wrote:On January 13 2012 05:14 Seuss wrote:On January 13 2012 05:01 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 12 2012 20:33 RogerX wrote:
Well I agree, we'll just have to see his numbers when he becomes released into the wild.
well since his ult scales off AP and AD im curious to how his new build will be.
lol something metaish with a mix of AP perhaps?
lantern, Warmogs, atmas, ryalis, rageblade
trololol? idk, i can't think of an efficent build The thread moves faster than I can reverse engineer numbers, so pages have elapsed since the Jax discussion. However, here are the numbers on Jax' ult as they were in the spotlight. 20/35/50 AP/AD base, +20% of AP as additional AP and +20% of Bonus AD as additional AD. Bonuses are determined at cast time and do not update as buffs/procs fade. That ain't bad at all. Probably not strong enough to warrant building straight damage over tanky dps/bruiser/metablargl/whatever you want to call it, but pretty damn good. Do you happen to know the CD on it? Other than that, I kind of want to know the actual numbers on his new Counterstrike. I'm not on the bandwagon of "worst change ever", but they'll have to be pretty careful of making it too bad/good. The CD looks to be 75s at level 12 and 60s at level 18, so I assume it's probably 90s at level 6. The new Counterstrike reads to me like Jax can win exchanges at will against Tryndamere and Udyr, but I don't know of any other solo top champions who primarily auto-attack. The new counterstrike is trash against trynd, the old counterstrike is way better in lane. In no way is 2sec dodge on a 10sec cd better than having a passive dodge against autoattackers. 2 seconds of assured dodge against Trynd can very well block 4 attacks, and then he's stunned for ~1 second. 3 seconds of immunity to Trynd every ~10 seconds is technically better than his 5 seconds of immunity to death every 90 seconds. Of course, not as amazing against AP, but you get the idea. In the spotlight, counter strike looks to have an 18 second cd at rank 1 (or 20 seconds from cast), and doesnt reach 10 until max rank. If Jax only trades when E is up, Udyr will out-sustain easily, while Trynd probably won't. As far as trading goes, this is complete trash in comparison to Riven's 11/10/9/8/7 cd stun that has a 1.0 AD ratio and costs no mana, and her 1.0 AD 10/9/8/7/6 cd shield+dash that works against more than just auto-attacks. It is also free.
Well, you can't really compare any melee to Riven, as she's completely OP. Just... don't tell anyone.
I don't expect Jax to become top pick/ban overnight, but I just don't think this is as devastating as people are making it out to be. Since he's rarely seen in games as it is, this change probably isn't going to kill him off or make him less viable than he is.
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On January 13 2012 06:31 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:26 Flakes wrote:On January 13 2012 05:50 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 05:44 JackDino wrote:On January 13 2012 05:14 Seuss wrote:On January 13 2012 05:01 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 12 2012 20:33 RogerX wrote:
Well I agree, we'll just have to see his numbers when he becomes released into the wild.
well since his ult scales off AP and AD im curious to how his new build will be.
lol something metaish with a mix of AP perhaps?
lantern, Warmogs, atmas, ryalis, rageblade
trololol? idk, i can't think of an efficent build The thread moves faster than I can reverse engineer numbers, so pages have elapsed since the Jax discussion. However, here are the numbers on Jax' ult as they were in the spotlight. 20/35/50 AP/AD base, +20% of AP as additional AP and +20% of Bonus AD as additional AD. Bonuses are determined at cast time and do not update as buffs/procs fade. That ain't bad at all. Probably not strong enough to warrant building straight damage over tanky dps/bruiser/metablargl/whatever you want to call it, but pretty damn good. Do you happen to know the CD on it? Other than that, I kind of want to know the actual numbers on his new Counterstrike. I'm not on the bandwagon of "worst change ever", but they'll have to be pretty careful of making it too bad/good. The CD looks to be 75s at level 12 and 60s at level 18, so I assume it's probably 90s at level 6. The new Counterstrike reads to me like Jax can win exchanges at will against Tryndamere and Udyr, but I don't know of any other solo top champions who primarily auto-attack. The new counterstrike is trash against trynd, the old counterstrike is way better in lane. In no way is 2sec dodge on a 10sec cd better than having a passive dodge against autoattackers. 2 seconds of assured dodge against Trynd can very well block 4 attacks, and then he's stunned for ~1 second. 3 seconds of immunity to Trynd every ~10 seconds is technically better than his 5 seconds of immunity to death every 90 seconds. Of course, not as amazing against AP, but you get the idea. In the spotlight, counter strike looks to have an 18 second cd at rank 1 (or 20 seconds from cast), and doesnt reach 10 until max rank. If Jax only trades when E is up, Udyr will out-sustain easily, while Trynd probably won't. As far as trading goes, this is complete trash in comparison to Riven's 11/10/9/8/7 cd stun that has a 1.0 AD ratio and costs no mana, and her 1.0 AD 10/9/8/7/6 cd shield+dash that works against more than just auto-attacks. It is also free. Well, you can't really compare any melee to Riven, as she's completely OP. Just... don't tell anyone. I don't expect Jax to become top pick/ban overnight, but I just don't think this is as devastating as people are making it out to be. Since he's rarely seen in games as it is, this change probably isn't going to kill him off or make him less viable than he is.
Actually the change might fuck up a lot of lanes against autoattackers, although the removal of tabi plays a part in this aswell.
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On January 13 2012 06:32 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:31 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 06:26 Flakes wrote:On January 13 2012 05:50 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 05:44 JackDino wrote:On January 13 2012 05:14 Seuss wrote:On January 13 2012 05:01 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 12 2012 20:33 RogerX wrote:
Well I agree, we'll just have to see his numbers when he becomes released into the wild.
well since his ult scales off AP and AD im curious to how his new build will be.
lol something metaish with a mix of AP perhaps?
lantern, Warmogs, atmas, ryalis, rageblade
trololol? idk, i can't think of an efficent build The thread moves faster than I can reverse engineer numbers, so pages have elapsed since the Jax discussion. However, here are the numbers on Jax' ult as they were in the spotlight. 20/35/50 AP/AD base, +20% of AP as additional AP and +20% of Bonus AD as additional AD. Bonuses are determined at cast time and do not update as buffs/procs fade. That ain't bad at all. Probably not strong enough to warrant building straight damage over tanky dps/bruiser/metablargl/whatever you want to call it, but pretty damn good. Do you happen to know the CD on it? Other than that, I kind of want to know the actual numbers on his new Counterstrike. I'm not on the bandwagon of "worst change ever", but they'll have to be pretty careful of making it too bad/good. The CD looks to be 75s at level 12 and 60s at level 18, so I assume it's probably 90s at level 6. The new Counterstrike reads to me like Jax can win exchanges at will against Tryndamere and Udyr, but I don't know of any other solo top champions who primarily auto-attack. The new counterstrike is trash against trynd, the old counterstrike is way better in lane. In no way is 2sec dodge on a 10sec cd better than having a passive dodge against autoattackers. 2 seconds of assured dodge against Trynd can very well block 4 attacks, and then he's stunned for ~1 second. 3 seconds of immunity to Trynd every ~10 seconds is technically better than his 5 seconds of immunity to death every 90 seconds. Of course, not as amazing against AP, but you get the idea. In the spotlight, counter strike looks to have an 18 second cd at rank 1 (or 20 seconds from cast), and doesnt reach 10 until max rank. If Jax only trades when E is up, Udyr will out-sustain easily, while Trynd probably won't. As far as trading goes, this is complete trash in comparison to Riven's 11/10/9/8/7 cd stun that has a 1.0 AD ratio and costs no mana, and her 1.0 AD 10/9/8/7/6 cd shield+dash that works against more than just auto-attacks. It is also free. Well, you can't really compare any melee to Riven, as she's completely OP. Just... don't tell anyone. I don't expect Jax to become top pick/ban overnight, but I just don't think this is as devastating as people are making it out to be. Since he's rarely seen in games as it is, this change probably isn't going to kill him off or make him less viable than he is. Actually the change might fuck up a lot of lanes against autoattackers, although the removal of tabi plays a part in this aswell.
Yeah, so he'll go from never being played in tournaments or scrims to never being played in tournaments or scrims. I don't know, maybe I'm just optimistic that it won't fuck up too bad. And hell, if it is, and he becomes terrible on an Eve level, it gives them reason to buff him to something usable.
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On January 13 2012 04:12 Shikyo wrote:
21k people are watching hotshotgg failing horribly like 5 times in a row and blaming his team =S
sounds like everytime he fails to me
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On January 13 2012 05:01 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 12 2012 20:33 RogerX wrote:
Well I agree, we'll just have to see his numbers when he becomes released into the wild.
well since his ult scales off AP and AD im curious to how his new build will be.
lol something metaish with a mix of AP perhaps?
lantern, Warmogs, atmas, ryalis, rageblade
trololol? idk, i can't think of an efficent build The thread moves faster than I can reverse engineer numbers, so pages have elapsed since the Jax discussion. However, here are the numbers on Jax' ult as they were in the spotlight. 20/35/50 AP/AD base, +20% of AP as additional AP and +20% of Bonus AD as additional AD. Bonuses are determined at cast time and do not update as buffs/procs fade. That ain't bad at all. Probably not strong enough to warrant building straight damage over tanky dps/bruiser/metablargl/whatever you want to call it, but pretty damn good. Do you happen to know the CD on it? Other than that, I kind of want to know the actual numbers on his new Counterstrike. I'm not on the bandwagon of "worst change ever", but they'll have to be pretty careful of making it too bad/good.
Am I really the only person who saw those numbers and thought "LOL HI RELASE VAYNE HI" when I read about his new ult? :S
A part of me thinks something along the lines of Wriggles -> Triforce -> GA or Wriggles -> Atmogs is your best bet. Throw in a random wota and everyone is happy. Tbh he's getting so much free shit from his ult that he might be great for Atmogs, kinda like Jarvan was at one point.
Edit: Anyone got full numbers on all skills/stats somewhere? Wiki isn't updated yet.
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On January 13 2012 06:49 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 05:01 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 12 2012 20:33 RogerX wrote:
Well I agree, we'll just have to see his numbers when he becomes released into the wild.
well since his ult scales off AP and AD im curious to how his new build will be.
lol something metaish with a mix of AP perhaps?
lantern, Warmogs, atmas, ryalis, rageblade
trololol? idk, i can't think of an efficent build The thread moves faster than I can reverse engineer numbers, so pages have elapsed since the Jax discussion. However, here are the numbers on Jax' ult as they were in the spotlight. 20/35/50 AP/AD base, +20% of AP as additional AP and +20% of Bonus AD as additional AD. Bonuses are determined at cast time and do not update as buffs/procs fade. That ain't bad at all. Probably not strong enough to warrant building straight damage over tanky dps/bruiser/metablargl/whatever you want to call it, but pretty damn good. Do you happen to know the CD on it? Other than that, I kind of want to know the actual numbers on his new Counterstrike. I'm not on the bandwagon of "worst change ever", but they'll have to be pretty careful of making it too bad/good. Am I really the only person who saw those numbers and thought "LOL HI RELASE VAYNE HI" when I read about his new ult? :S
If he would actually start throwing lamppoles instead of being in melee range then yes.
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On January 13 2012 06:52 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:49 r.Evo wrote:On January 13 2012 05:01 Requizen wrote:On January 13 2012 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 12 2012 20:33 RogerX wrote:
Well I agree, we'll just have to see his numbers when he becomes released into the wild.
well since his ult scales off AP and AD im curious to how his new build will be.
lol something metaish with a mix of AP perhaps?
lantern, Warmogs, atmas, ryalis, rageblade
trololol? idk, i can't think of an efficent build The thread moves faster than I can reverse engineer numbers, so pages have elapsed since the Jax discussion. However, here are the numbers on Jax' ult as they were in the spotlight. 20/35/50 AP/AD base, +20% of AP as additional AP and +20% of Bonus AD as additional AD. Bonuses are determined at cast time and do not update as buffs/procs fade. That ain't bad at all. Probably not strong enough to warrant building straight damage over tanky dps/bruiser/metablargl/whatever you want to call it, but pretty damn good. Do you happen to know the CD on it? Other than that, I kind of want to know the actual numbers on his new Counterstrike. I'm not on the bandwagon of "worst change ever", but they'll have to be pretty careful of making it too bad/good. Am I really the only person who saw those numbers and thought "LOL HI RELASE VAYNE HI" when I read about his new ult? :S If he would actually start throwing lamppoles instead of being in melee range then yes.
dno, 2.5k+ gold value in offensive stats for 15 seconds before bonus AP/AD seems pretty damn strong to me if you build tanky.
Edit: Waitwat. New Jax not even out on EU. Real tease~
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oh my god is there only one german ad in own3d? i am gonna lose it after one more stepstone.de ad.
Also, since when are the teams doing these sparrings every night? thats really nice to watch sometimes :D
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Joy CLG EU bringing out the top lane Vayne
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Just hit 1700 rating. The majority of games are still decided before the 20th minute though. People only going tryhard comps, and just now I've seen the first jungle skarner not carrying his team to win.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 13 2012 07:01 NotSorry wrote:
Joy CLG EU bringing out the top lane Vayne
If teams practiced more, we should see more Sivir and Vayne solo top.
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Wow that Alistar gank for two kills looked real easy in the CLG.eu game.
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EPT
