[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 161

Cloud9157

United States2968 Posts

January 11 2012 05:51 GMT

#3201

On January 11 2012 14:45 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Is it possible to jungle cow? His ganks would be pretty sick right?

At WCG, I believe it was team Poland that jungled him game 1 vs Canada.

I've also seen Shushei do it before. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention, but his clear time seems pretty high.

NotSorry

United States6722 Posts

January 11 2012 05:55 GMT

#3202

you really can only do 100% sure kill ganks with him or you fall way behind due to poor clear times

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

January 11 2012 05:55 GMT

#3203

On January 11 2012 14:47 barbsq wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 11 2012 14:35 tobi9999 wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:26 Alzadar wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:16 tobi9999 wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:05 Alzadar wrote:

On January 11 2012 13:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Lets have a little thought experiment with ezreal:

1- Corki or Ezreal, equal farm, who do you want (either build, triforce or standard ad carry items)
2- Vayne or Ezreal (standard items)
3- Graves or Ezreal
4- Kog or Ezreal
5- Cait or Ezreal. ect...

Time for some answers:
1- Corki. He does everything Ez does, only better. Even if you go for the mid game power build, corki does it better.
2- Vayne. Do I even need to explain this?
3- Graves. Post level 2 he has more lane power, can control the lane much better, and come teamfights he can melt an entire team in 2 abilities. His steroid is better, and his w is incredibly useful for controlling space.
4- Kog. See answer #2.
5- Cait. Her early game is better because she can control the wave and poke better than ez can, and her late game is better because her range is obscene. But of all the hypotheticals I listed, this is the closest, and even then ONLY if you go IE PD instead of the shitty midgame power build

What does Corki do better than Ezreal, except maybe shred armor? Ezreal's poke is much better and their escape ability is about equal (although the animation for Ezreal is much faster).

what doesn't Corki do better?

In lane, Corki can completely deny people CS because the threat of just Q + Auto attack is too high if he's playing with an aggressive support.
Corki can clear waves about 20 times faster
Corki has muchmuch better poke contrary to what you believe
Corki has way more damage assuming same farm.
Corki can actually build IE + PD ..... It honestly just isn't that good on Ezreal.

Also, Ezreal's ult is useless in 1v1, and his steroid is way harder to charge up.

Just want to discuss the poking ability real quick:
Corki's missiles have a range of 1200, 260 base damage and scale with 0.2 of his AD. He can store 7 missiles and after that he gets one every 10 seconds. They deal magic damage, and do a bit of splash.
Ezreal's mystic shot has 1100 range, 115 base damage and scales with 1.0 of his AD. He has unlimited ammo and a 4 second CD, 3 seconds if he lands a hit. Mystic Shot deals physical damage and applies on-hit effects.

Mystic Shot does much more damage than Missiles and will keep coming long after Corki's out of missiles. The only thing Corki has going for him is the splash, but nobody is going to clump up while Corki is bombarding them with missiles. I suppose the burst when you've stockpiled missiles is good, but the longer the race, the further ahead Ezreal gets.

Extra 100 range and 1/3 the CD. and it's magic damage, people tend to have A LOT less MR. At least the ones that are affected by poke. Poking with ezreal seems to have a very minor effect, poking with Corki makes people feel like they can't keep staying there although, you are right about the disadvantage with the missile charge. But missiles are harder to dodge, and can splash so hiding behind minions isn't really possible

EDIT: Also, Lol wtf. Corki true damage outscales Vayne's at all stages of the game, unless someone decided to build a quick warmogs while Vayne decides to max silver bolts first. it starts at 10 and goes up to like 150. Which is 30 - 450 in terms of 3 hits, which Vayne can't match against sub 5k hp opponents.

um... what?

ppl tend to balance armor and mres pretty well (@ 1500ish elo, which isn't even very high), except for squishy targets, and ranged AD tend to buy qss.... which means they're going to have more mres than armor.

edit: also, vayne's base dmg on silver bolts start at 20 true dmg without the 8% modifier, so i think you're wrong when you say that 10 true dmg is more than 20

I'm sorry, but are you trolling me?
10 true damage per hit vs 20 true damage per 3 hits?
Like, I'm fine with having arguments with stubborn people, but I absolutely despise having my time wasted by trolls -_-

EDIT: Also, like I said, vs people who actually care about getting poked, AKA squishies, they don't balance their armor out.
and if you're poking at 25 minutes + when people have QSS, then you're not playing AD carry right because you're going to get raped if they decide to initiate on you. By poke I meant like pushing down the first or second tower in a lane, or poking people at dragon.

anmolsinghmzn2009

India1783 Posts

January 11 2012 05:56 GMT

#3204

On January 11 2012 14:49 NotSorry wrote:

Show nested quote +

If by cow you mean Alistar then yea it possible in the old jungle and much easier now, however his clear times aren't very good

Well I just got thinking since smash said in current jungle camping lanes is way better. A tanky alistar would also disrupt teamfights so well.

Alzadar

Canada5009 Posts

January 11 2012 05:59 GMT

#3205

On January 11 2012 14:48 overt wrote:
You can jungle Alistar.

Corki is better than Ezreal because who cares if Ezreal may or may not have better poke. You won't be poking forever and in a straight 1v1 Corki will always win. Even in a teamfight Corki is going to be putting out more damage than Ez.

edit:
Has anyone tried skipping Trinity and going straight for IE/PD on Corki? You'd basically be trading a stronger early/midgame for a monster of a late game.

Corki vs Ezreal 1v1 is very situational I'd say, but it can go either way and is definetely not a stomp for Corki. If Ezreal can start the fight with his passive stacked and not stand in gatling gun, he should win easily. If Corki can prevent Ezreal from getting stacks, land a good gatling gun and dodge Essence Flux, he'll win handily. Missile ammo at the start of the fight is pretty relevant too. Not sure where you get the teamfight thing from, Gatling Gun is Corki's main strength there and the problem is he either can't kite while it's on or he loses out on some of the damage. Ezreal can kite six ways from Sunday while still using all his abilities and autoattacking. Again, each have their own strengths and weaknesses.

On January 11 2012 14:55 tobi9999 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 11 2012 14:47 barbsq wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:35 tobi9999 wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:26 Alzadar wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:16 tobi9999 wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:05 Alzadar wrote:

What does Corki do better than Ezreal, except maybe shred armor? Ezreal's poke is much better and their escape ability is about equal (although the animation for Ezreal is much faster).

How do you initiate on someone 1100-1200 distance away with a 600 range quick jump or a 475 range instant blink? Even Malphite's super strong initiating skills can't catch Corki or Ezreal.

Corki's true damage is obviously higher than Vayne's at the start of the game (since hers has to be leveled up and scales with target health), but in the endgame (when true damage is actually relevant because people have high armor), Vayne's is stronger, although not by a huge amount and it has the disadvantage of requiring 3 hits to proc.

barbsq

United States5348 Posts

January 11 2012 05:59 GMT

#3206

On January 11 2012 14:55 tobi9999 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 11 2012 14:47 barbsq wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:35 tobi9999 wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:26 Alzadar wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:16 tobi9999 wrote:

On January 11 2012 14:05 Alzadar wrote:

What does Corki do better than Ezreal, except maybe shred armor? Ezreal's poke is much better and their escape ability is about equal (although the animation for Ezreal is much faster).

forgot about the 3 hit condition, my mistake

seRapH

United States9756 Posts

January 11 2012 06:00 GMT

#3207

Only done cow jungle a few times. It's almost like blitz jungle where you can't counter-jungle or farm because you're too slow, so you have to gank at every opportunity to keep up with the enemy jungle. It certainly doesn't hurt that your ganks are SUPER strong tho ^^

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

January 11 2012 06:05 GMT

#3208

@barbs ah I see xD

On January 11 2012 14:59 Alzadar wrote:

Show nested quote +

I always go for IE first on Corki, it's slowly becoming more prevalent in pro AD carries as well. I know v8 aphromoo only goes IE first on corki, and never triforce. Chaox does sometimes one and sometimes the other :/

I feel that Tri Force is just the most retarded OP item you can get on Corki if you're facing squishies, because you can seriously just valkyrie in and one shot them sometimes. But if the enemy is tanky, Tri Force feels almost useless outside of kiting.

And yes I agree, Ezreal is the best kiter by far. He is also the most independent, since if he gets stunned he'll still blink unlike trist and corki. He doesn't need peel which is by far his greatest strength. Hence why Dignitas picks him when they run double assassin comps without peel.

EDIT: Also, to comment on Ezreal vs Corki in a 1v1 situation. Corki does win most of the time, but ezreal can actually kite him around. If Ezreal does not expect Corki, and he just comes out of nowhere and starts attacking him, then Ezreal has no chance. However, if you're Ezreal and you see Corki chasing you, then you can use your abilities to your advantage and maybe pull out a draw or even a win if you're lucky.

Shikyo

Finland33997 Posts

January 11 2012 06:22 GMT

#3209

Hmm i played a game as ryze vs anivia mid, my jungler gave me every blue and opposing warwick jungler gave the anivia 0 blue buffs throughout the game. I went 3-0 vs the anivia as she couldn't do much after spending all her mana twice on clearing the creepwave, and then I farmed 300 minions at 33min as I had freefarm(pretty proud of that!).

Then at the end of the game the warwick goes "gg mid feed reported" >_>

It's amazing how clueless some people are about jungling.

barbsq

United States5348 Posts

January 11 2012 06:23 GMT

#3210

i dont think it's terribly relevant to compare corki and ezreal in a 1v1 situation, but tbh i'd actually put my money on ezreal. Assuming both hit everything, ezreal's 5 second, 40% attackspeed debuff is going to be pretty significant, unless you think that corki will 100-0 ezreal in 1 burst round.

altho, i have to say i'm pretty biased, my experiences with corki in my games is pretty low (tho not zero) whereas i have 2 very good ezreal players that i play with.

wussleeQ

United States3130 Posts

January 11 2012 06:25 GMT

#3211

On January 11 2012 14:45 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Is it possible to jungle cow? His ganks would be pretty sick right?

yes you can. really strong early game. falls off a bit though. i like to build him mainly as a tank since all my attempts at tanky dps cow start off 6-0 and end 8-10. Just gotta learn how to hit the WQ combo everytime for it to work very well. level 6 dive is also supa strongggg

infinitestory

United States4053 Posts

January 11 2012 06:29 GMT

#3212

so i hear there is some Chinese showmatch about to happen with iG, WE, and 2 other teams
something about WGT (the chinese event)

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

January 11 2012 06:30 GMT

#3213

On January 11 2012 15:23 barbsq wrote:
i dont think it's terribly relevant to compare corki and ezreal in a 1v1 situation, but tbh i'd actually put my money on ezreal. Assuming both hit everything, ezreal's 5 second, 40% attackspeed debuff is going to be pretty significant, unless you think that corki will 100-0 ezreal in 1 burst round.

altho, i have to say i'm pretty biased, my experiences with corki in my games is pretty low (tho not zero) whereas i have 2 very good ezreal players that i play with.

Eh, Corki is a really really weird hero. His damage is deceiving. You just see him last hitting and then poking you for a bit, and you're like k this hero isn't that much damage I can take him!

Then he activates gatling gun and valks into you then q+r's you and all of a sudden you're dead in less than 3 auto attacks.

one thing you have to take into consideration, is that Corki Q+R combo which takes .5 seconds to cast, hits higher than Ezreals ult, which misses most of the time xD

Cloud9157

United States2968 Posts

January 11 2012 06:31 GMT

#3214

On January 11 2012 15:22 Shikyo wrote:
Hmm i played a game as ryze vs anivia mid, my jungler gave me every blue and opposing warwick jungler gave the anivia 0 blue buffs throughout the game. I went 3-0 vs the anivia as she couldn't do much after spending all her mana twice on clearing the creepwave, and then I farmed 300 minions at 33min as I had freefarm(pretty proud of that!).

Then at the end of the game the warwick goes "gg mid feed reported" >_>

It's amazing how clueless some people are about jungling.

People that don't know which champions NEED blue make me rage. Its not that hard to think about it: Is anyone constantly spamming spells/have no way of regenerating mana (Malzahar and Swain)? They probably need blue then.

anmolsinghmzn2009

India1783 Posts

January 11 2012 06:31 GMT

#3215

On January 11 2012 15:25 wussleeQ wrote:

Show nested quote +

Tanky AP cow like singed? Does decent damage and his ult gives him cool survivabilty just like singed. Also he's awesome at disrupting enemy team's positioning and stuff.

Edit: also graves+lebonk support so stronk lol. Lvl6 double kill npnp.

Parnage

United States7414 Posts

January 11 2012 06:35 GMT

#3216

Give ezreal's q an armor reduction bonus. Bam, just solved the ezreal problem.

Seriously though, he's best at games ending before 25-30 minutes. Then his midgame/early game falls off and until he gets his late late late game items other ad's pull ahead. In short, he requires tons of farm or kills to be good by late game, other ad carries this is not that case. However if you can win his early game that solves most of the problems.

-_o Also, I am becoming more and more only support player, I can feel my top and jungler skills fading away.. HALP

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

January 11 2012 06:36 GMT

#3217

On January 11 2012 15:31 Cloud9157 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Malzahar isn't that dependent on blue XD, but that's probably because I don't spam for tons of passive critters.
Swain, Kassadin, and Anivia are hopeless though lol.

They're just like, clear wave go gank np solid strat.
Then they're like shit too much mana used gg

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

January 11 2012 06:39 GMT

#3218

Corki v Ez also depends on a lot of skill. Hitting/dodging skillshots, not standing in Gatling Gun, keeping Ez's passive up... but like people say, it's Ez's game to win more than it is Corki's to lose.

I think whoever has the first shot wins. If Corki can initiate, you jump, GG on his face, peg with R, and win. If Ez initiates, you R from outside vision (pretty darn good damage later on), then run in and spam. His W's debuff is painful.

That said, how they 1v1 isn't important. Teamplay is. Ezreal's poke is stronger, and if you're running an AoE comp (Galio/Sona/Cass ult to initiate), his R hitting all 5 targets can be devestating, and gives you a big buff. W's passive is very nice in teamfights, especially if your team has, like, a Trynd or Irelia or something.

Conversely, Corki's armor shred is amazing, unless you're running some sort of double AP WotA style, where it will only really be useful for you. His ult's splash damage is good too, but loses out in sustained fights with it's ammo and being used as pre-fight pokes.

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

January 11 2012 06:46 GMT

#3219

On January 11 2012 15:35 Parnage wrote:
Give ezreal's q an armor reduction bonus. Bam, just solved the ezreal problem.

Seriously though, he's best at games ending before 25-30 minutes. Then his midgame/early game falls off and until he gets his late late late game items other ad's pull ahead. In short, he requires tons of farm or kills to be good by late game, other ad carries this is not that case. However if you can win his early game that solves most of the problems.

-_o Also, I am becoming more and more only support player, I can feel my top and jungler skills fading away.. HALP

More like, make it so his w gives himself a steroid, and not just his teammates