EPT[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 159
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
"No no not yet, Graves has bad matchups"- Double "Don't listen to him, he's a lying piece of shit"-SV "Maybe I should pick Ezreal"-Double "Don't do it, I'll cut your balls off" -SV | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
I feel SV has an irrational hate towards malphite and ezreal. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On January 11 2012 12:34 UniversalSnip wrote: just not that much gold value I'm referring to the concept of opacity, which in the sense I learned it is simply whether the rule set of a game indicates a clear path to optimal play. For example, imagine chess in which it becomes clear very quickly after you've learned the rules that you want to control the center of the board. Now imagine some incredibly complex hobby game in which you have no clear sense until you've played hundreds of games what indicates whether a move is good or bad. There might not even be a general guideline for the quality of a move, you might have to individually calculate each alternative according to a mathematical formula rather than narrowing it down by saying 'this kind of move tends to be good'. That's a lot of text for what's actually a very small complaint but the gist is, look at a 21 offense hero and tell me exactly how much benefit they are getting and how good the masteries are, and look at a 21 utility hero and it'll be much harder to explain. Sage looks like garbage, but unless I look up the experience tables and see it'll take 15 kills/assists to go halfway from level 10 to 11 I'm basically just guessing that because 40 'looks' like a small number. Mana, Mana regen, movement speed, buff duration, cooldown reduction, extra experience, base gold, gold per 5, summoner spell cooldown, they all seem pretty tangible (opaque if you like) to me. Just don't get the shitty masteries that give gold/exp on kill/assist. I do agree that the summoner spell masteries are stupid and should be done away with, seems like a relic from the old system and now it's just a silly format that stifles variety in summoner spell choice. On January 11 2012 13:20 Two_DoWn wrote: Fully justified. Ezreal sucks balls. He is the only ad carry who doesnt scale into late game. At all. You want burst? Get graves. Harass? Cait. Or you can just get corki who does everything better than ezreal anyway. How does he not scale into late game? He's got average range, a pretty strong attack speed steroid that is up perpetually in a fight, the best sustained poke of all the ranged ADs (Corki will run out of missiles, Kog will run out of mana and does less damage), tied for highest mobility, and an attack speed debuff that allows him to 1v1 any other ranged AD (except Vayne if she stuns). | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:17 dignity wrote: So far seasons have been yearly. been yearly. I feel SV has an irrational hate towards malphite and ezreal. Malphite is kinda weak, but with the possible exception of Urgot (who might just be a bruiser outright) Ezreal is by far the worst-scaling AD carry. | ||
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FR4CT4L
Australia697 Posts
 .Also how hard do you feel it would be to get to a reasonable level of play? I feel like the main burden is going to be match-up knowledge and game sense. I get the feeling I'm going to get 100-0 comboed by a lot of stuff if I don't have someone to explain that X+Y+Z champs can do the "omega manoeuvre" or whatever. I'm going to reserve judgement on Jax until I get some playtime on the remake. 100% dodge sounds pretty neat. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:20 Two_DoWn wrote: Fully justified. Ezreal sucks balls. He is the only ad carry who doesnt scale into late game. At all. You want burst? Get graves. Harass? Cait. Or you can just get corki who does everything better than ezreal anyway. he's also the only champ who consistently crushes vayne in lane, and is probably the most slippery ranged AD making him a fantastic pick against hyper-initiation teams. He also very strong in a 1v1 ranged AD vs ranged AD fight due to his atkspeed reduction. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:22 Niton wrote: Malphite is kinda weak, but with the possible exception of Urgot (who might just be a bruiser outright) Ezreal is by far the worst-scaling AD carry. How does he scale worse than Corki, Caitlyn or Ashe? 10% true damage is good but not as good as 50% attack speed, double damage every 7th attack is pretty subpar, and Ashe has no steroid at all. In terms of max items only auto attack damage, it probably goes Kog = Vayne > Tristana > Twitch > Sivir > Graves > Ezreal = Miss Fortune > Corki > Caitlyn > Ashe = Urgot | ||
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Skithiryx
Australia648 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:26 dignity wrote: Despite a lot of people complaining about the leveling up of your account and unlocking of characters, its actually a good way to learn all the champions. You start off your first days of LoL learning the champions that are free, and slowly build your way up. The one flaw with this system though is that most of the champions now cost a lot of IP to unlock, which is annoying for most people. And it's a bit of skewed system with runes also costing IP, alot of people will want to buy more champions because they're fun/bigger pool is great/saw someone do good with them, but the problem is they won't have any of the runes for them and can be left feeling like a hero is subpar. Good example is my friend who just bought Talon and then sits their wondering why he doesn't do that much damage, I explain that he needs runes and to at least get the two basic kits of runes, his answer "disregard runes, acquire heroes" and i don't honestly blame him, playing the same limited pool of heroes does get pretty boring and with the MASSIVE pool to choose from on play/style/looks/etc... it can be hard to not just spend all your ip on Lee Sin o_o | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
I tried the augments and Death seems by far the best, Q is too short and slow. W is a great skill, basically a wall. The times I got fed as viktor I was carrying harder than I've ever carried, 2 shotting people and melting the entire team with ult. His skills have like no synergy whatsoever, but his E is go good that it doesn't even matter. He farms so well that he's impossible to zone. I can definetely see him being played in a poking composition, as he can out-range anyone and strongly dissuade any jumps with W and be strong in teamfight with his shield and R. I see a ton of terrible Viktors missing every E, but if you smartcast it its really easy to use. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:32 Alzadar wrote: How does he scale worse than Corki, Caitlyn or Ashe? 10% true damage is good but not as good as 50% attack speed, double damage every 7th attack is pretty subpar, and Ashe has no steroid at all. I'm pretty sure the reason he's viewed as scaling really poorly is because everyone buys items to synergize with his Q rather than his autoattacks, if you've ever seen infinity edge phantom dancer ezreal the damage is pretty unreal. Just other builds are stronger midgame so people go for that | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:32 Alzadar wrote: How does he scale worse than Corki, Caitlyn or Ashe? 10% true damage is good but not as good as 50% attack speed, double damage every 7th attack is pretty subpar, and Ashe has no steroid at all. corki also has armor reduction and caitlyn has superior range (which, while hard to quantify as a 'steroid' is certainly a strong factor in damage output). So i would believe it if he didnt scale quite as well other ranged AD (ashe is also kinda weird, kus while she doesn't have the best dmg output, she has undeniably the best initiation skill of any ranged AD period). Ezreal still has the benefit of incredibly high mobility as well as that attackspeed debuff and his passive attackspeed. There's no way that he is convincingly the worst ranged AD by a significant margin. edit: also in ur chart urgot is significantly worse than ashe in terms of auto attack dmg due to her + crit passive, and the fact that urgot doesn't itemize in crit. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:17 dignity wrote: So far seasons have been yearly. been yearly. I feel SV has an irrational hate towards malphite and ezreal. nah, malphite is a shitty jungle he's a decent top in certain scenarios | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:46 barbsq wrote: edit: also in ur chart urgot is significantly worse than ashe in terms of auto attack dmg due to her + crit passive, and the fact that urgot doesn't itemize in crit. The passive seems pretty marginal since it probably gives about an extra 20% crit chance and only on the first hit. We're assuming for the sake of comparison that all of them have the same items. | ||
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Attakijing
United States693 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:51 Alzadar wrote:some of the best initiation in the game (Reverie your team, ult in, Randuins their team) uhhh | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
1- Corki or Ezreal, equal farm, who do you want (either build, triforce or standard ad carry items) 2- Vayne or Ezreal (standard items) 3- Graves or Ezreal 4- Kog or Ezreal 5- Cait or Ezreal. ect... Time for some answers: 1- Corki. He does everything Ez does, only better. Even if you go for the mid game power build, corki does it better. 2- Vayne. Do I even need to explain this? 3- Graves. Post level 2 he has more lane power, can control the lane much better, and come teamfights he can melt an entire team in 2 abilities. His steroid is better, and his w is incredibly useful for controlling space. 4- Kog. See answer #2. 5- Cait. Her early game is better because she can control the wave and poke better than ez can, and her late game is better because her range is obscene. But of all the hypotheticals I listed, this is the closest, and even then ONLY if you go IE PD instead of the shitty midgame power build And because you brought her up- I would rather have late game ashe because she wins games with her arrow, volly spam hurts like hell, and the ability to chase and slow bruisers is incredibly useful in fractured fights. | ||
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Bwaaaa
Australia969 Posts
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