[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 118

On January 08 2012 10:04 emperorchampion wrote:
In case it hasn't already been posted, CLG and TSM scrimming in about 15min

On January 08 2012 09:44 turdburgler wrote:
maybe i am completely wrong but since as bonus work off your base speed not current attack speed gets worse and worse the more you get, so how is PD WORSE on people with no steroid? if you have no steroid you will get the most benefit from PD in terms of pure dps.

are we also talking vayne specific because for her attack speed helps 1 of her abilities, also graves e scales with as but on the other hand ezreal doesnt get any other bonus to as except more autohit dmg



if you are talking about a soraka lane then theres probably something going full retard if you are getting poked out, im talking about situations where u clearly arent being healed enough.


i also think movement speed in general is so underrated, if you cant catch people you do 0 dps, if you run faster you do dps. you see people every day of the week running away at 10% hp. in that situation zeal is infinitely better than IE let alone PDvsIE

On January 08 2012 10:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I feel bad saying this, but BF sword only gives 45 AD now instead of 50 Yango

On January 08 2012 10:34 Shikyo wrote:
movespeed should with logic give you more creeps and probably also let you survive better at times so it's difficult to measure

On January 08 2012 09:56 Ryuu314 wrote:

When was the last time a progamer went PD first on an AD carry not named Kog/Vayne?

TRM went PD first on Corki in M5 v. TSM, but he was a non-factor in team fights until he got LW and he said so himself. Not to mention that was the first time I've ever seen TRM play Corki.


Builds are more important than you think they are. Getting the right build is similar to using the right build order in SC2, albeit less crucial. I'd argue that builds have a bigger impact in teamfights than in lane. Getting a crucial item (IE, Dcap, PD, LW, etc...) at X minutes allows your team to make plays based on the jump in power on specific champions. For example, after most AP carries get their dcap, their damage potential jumps a shitload, allowing their team to play more aggressive and contest objectives.

On January 08 2012 10:38 tobi9999 wrote:


I don't agree with that about builds at all.

Farm is farm, obviously you need MR over Armor, or vice versa in some cases. But TANK STATS ARE TANK STATS, AND DAMAGE IS DAMAGE. GOLD IS WHAT DECIDES WHO WINS, NOT WHAT YOU DO WITH IT. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT A TEAM 10K+ UP IS GOING TO LOSE A TEAMFIGHT UNLESS OUT-TEAMCOMPED. 99% of the time it doesn't have to do with the items you build. The game doesn't care what you build as long as it gives you the stats you need, the game cares about who has more $.

Like, on GP I built aegis then banshees then GA for no particular reason but just because I had enough money for those items at the time. IMO I honestly felt like playing my hero was still the exact same as if I built warmog atmas + something else. I still had the exact same sort of presence, because in both cases the stats made me just incredibly tanky.
If you troll on AD carry and build ghostblade first, you will literally be okay as long as you are 600~ gold ahead of the other AD carry. Sometimes I build questionable things on AD carry to troll and have fun, and the ONLY item that ever makes a huge difference is LW I feel. Tiamat isn't optimal but it doesn't make you that much weaker where you can't win when you have a 1k gold lead ;D.

On January 08 2012 10:38 tobi9999 wrote:
Farm is farm, obviously you need MR over Armor, or vice versa in some cases. But TANK STATS ARE TANK STATS, AND DAMAGE IS DAMAGE. GOLD IS WHAT DECIDES WHO WINS, NOT WHAT YOU DO WITH IT. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT A TEAM 10K+ UP IS GOING TO LOSE A TEAMFIGHT UNLESS OUT-TEAMCOMPED. 99% of the time it doesn't have to do with the items you build. The game doesn't care what you build as long as it gives you the stats you need, the game cares about who has more $.

On January 08 2012 10:38 tobi9999 wrote:
Like, on GP I built aegis then banshees then GA for no particular reason but just because I had enough money for those items at the time. IMO I honestly felt like playing my hero was still the exact same as if I built warmog atmas + something else. I still had the exact same sort of presence, because in both cases the stats made me just incredibly tanky.
If you troll on AD carry and build ghostblade first, you will literally be okay as long as you are 600~ gold ahead of the other AD carry. Sometimes I build questionable things on AD carry to troll and have fun, and the ONLY item that ever makes a huge difference is LW I feel. Tiamat isn't optimal but it doesn't make you that much weaker where you can't win when you have a 1k gold lead ;D.

On January 08 2012 10:41 wei2coolman wrote:
so just smart casted the first time with kat, zomg, i now know what i've been missing all my life.

On January 08 2012 10:42 TheYango wrote:

Games are won and lost primarily on the fights that happen when the teams are close on global gold. Of course a team that's 10k up is going to win fights. But they didn't win the game at that point. They won the game at the point when they were fighting fights on even gold or with 1-2k gold difference and started stretching out the global gold difference by winning those fights and taking objectives. And in those fights, item selection makes a bigger difference. How much of a difference it makes compared to other factors such as team coordination, positioning, target selection, and general overall micro is up for debate.

On January 08 2012 10:46 turdburgler wrote:
except its a pointless debate, how you spend your gold is in no way related to your ap just running off and trying to split push turrets even though you want to 5v5 or have a yi/garen.

On January 08 2012 10:47 tobi9999 wrote:
I would argue that League is so much of a snowball game that a large portion of games are swung heavily enough in a teams favor before item builds start diverging so much that item builds aren't as important as team composition.
Most times where I've ever seen a game where a team has a gold lead lose is when the other AD/AP carries opted to build VS/LW and the team with the lead did not. And so the gold value did not matter anymore because those items are broken.

On January 08 2012 10:48 TheYango wrote:

Yes minor issues like item selection are outweighed by idiots being idiots in solo queue.

But seeing as this whole debate started with regard to Rain Man in a scrim, I assumed that we were discussing this as it pertains to high level play, where small differences ARE relevant.

Theorycraft is by nature pretty useless at low levels because of how many mistakes are made compared to optimal play (those gold values at various levels won't even match up properly to the levels I gave for someone who can't lasthit at least decently).