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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 16 2011 10:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:02 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 16 2011 09:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 08:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Cait is a good late game carry because of her range. Its the reason kog maw is so good- range wins fights.
I mean, your talking about ad carry, a role that does most of its damage on autoattacks, with the same items across the board. They are going to do similar damage. The differentiating factors between them is if A) they have an escape, B) some sort of damage steroid, and C) their range.
Cait has an advantage in terms of a and c. Vayne has a and b. Kog'Maw was good because he had the highest range? No, his W does % max health damage! His range is certainly a plus as well, but he didn't penta teams because he had the highest range in the game. If you think this you're very silly. Range is definitely a part of it, but it's not even that important if it can be made up for in other areas see Vayne. I'd take a 80 or 90% aspd steroid over range any day. If you listened to any pro talk about kog maw back when he was super in fad for the IEMs it was his range, not the shred on his w that made him op. As for why he isnt played much anymore I expect it has something to do with the fact people are getting better at abusing matchups bot lane so that somebody who is weaker early like kog can get brutally raped and murdered in the laning phase. or the fact that he was nerfed significantly. I don't remember any pro talk about Kog'Maw being good because of his range during the IEMs although you could just assume that because the most played carries with Caitlyn and Kog'Maw, but I still think his %max health damage is more significant than his range.
No, it's not. The ONLY reason the bonus damage matters is because he has amazing range to go with it. With low range and zero escapes it doesn't matter how high your potential DPS is because you're always in harm's way and will never get to just sit there and right-click. If you really think maximum theoretical damage is the only thing that matters, then why do you suppose people don't only play Twitch and Vayne?
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Kog's range used to be highest in the game, now it's below Trist and it's conditional.
Kog fell out of favor because if you want a late-game beast you'll go with Trist, who also has a pretty strong early game. Not to mention the introduction of Cait and Graves meant that there are super abusive bot lane duos that can rape a Kog lane. Vayne has also been rising in popularity 'cause of her relatively strong laning and beast lategame. Yorick becoming more standard as a pick also means you can run shit like Yorick+Zil+Vayne and really abuse Vayne's insane dps. Corki was played a decent amount at WCG as people discovered his burst in lane isn't that bad and his poke/late game dps is quite powerful due to his passive+ability to use Triforce.
Ashe isn't used cause her ulti simply isnt worth giving up the strength other champs provide in other areas. MF isn't used 'cause her niche of AoE monster/lane bully has been taken over by Graves/Cait. Twitch isn't used 'cause his range is pathetic unless he uses ulti, but even then he's just rather UP against good teams.
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On December 16 2011 09:42 57 Corvette wrote:
Wtf...
I play a ranked game, lose because of a griefer, whatever.
Next ranked game I start, go through champ select, game starts, gives me an error when it tries to launch, saying I don't have some DLL file.
>_>
And after restarting my client like 4 times, it works
Wierd
User was warned for this post
You don't have LOL Replay running do you?
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On December 16 2011 09:48 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:45 emucxg wrote:
anybody knows when will the winter skins go off sale Launcher says next patch. Which makes it right around Xmas.Uh, "off sale". I'd assume sales last around one patch. So some time Jan most likely.
thanks, time to farm ip 4 mokai =P
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Random thought: why has no one mentioned Corki?
Still deals very good damage, great poke, great escape skill....?
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On December 16 2011 10:31 Schmieds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:42 57 Corvette wrote:
Wtf...
I play a ranked game, lose because of a griefer, whatever.
Next ranked game I start, go through champ select, game starts, gives me an error when it tries to launch, saying I don't have some DLL file.
>_>
And after restarting my client like 4 times, it works
Wierd
User was warned for this post You don't have LOL Replay running do you?
Yeah, could that be the problem?
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On December 16 2011 10:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Random thought: why has no one mentioned Corki?
Still deals very good damage, great poke, great escape skill....?
Low attack range and everyone rushes Trinity on him so he has good midgame but worse lategame than the AD carries that build standard.
edit:
Although, I really love Corki so I hope players start playing him again. He's the most fun AD carry to play imo.
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On December 16 2011 10:27 TieN.nS) wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:02 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 16 2011 09:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 08:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Cait is a good late game carry because of her range. Its the reason kog maw is so good- range wins fights.
I mean, your talking about ad carry, a role that does most of its damage on autoattacks, with the same items across the board. They are going to do similar damage. The differentiating factors between them is if A) they have an escape, B) some sort of damage steroid, and C) their range.
Cait has an advantage in terms of a and c. Vayne has a and b. Kog'Maw was good because he had the highest range? No, his W does % max health damage! His range is certainly a plus as well, but he didn't penta teams because he had the highest range in the game. If you think this you're very silly. Range is definitely a part of it, but it's not even that important if it can be made up for in other areas see Vayne. I'd take a 80 or 90% aspd steroid over range any day. If you listened to any pro talk about kog maw back when he was super in fad for the IEMs it was his range, not the shred on his w that made him op. As for why he isnt played much anymore I expect it has something to do with the fact people are getting better at abusing matchups bot lane so that somebody who is weaker early like kog can get brutally raped and murdered in the laning phase. or the fact that he was nerfed significantly. I don't remember any pro talk about Kog'Maw being good because of his range during the IEMs although you could just assume that because the most played carries with Caitlyn and Kog'Maw, but I still think his %max health damage is more significant than his range. No, it's not. The ONLY reason the bonus damage matters is because he has amazing range to go with it. With low range and zero escapes it doesn't matter how high your potential DPS is because you're always in harm's way and will never get to just sit there and right-click. If you really think maximum theoretical damage is the only thing that matters, then why do you suppose people don't only play Twitch and Vayne?
If all he had was the highest range he wouldn't be good either, and I don't recall ever saying that having the maximum potential DPS is the only thing that matters, especially in a laughable case like Twitch. I sure hope all five enemies on the team line up so I can get a pentakill! We can argue about this all night, but I still believe that the %maximum health is far more significant than anybody has given it credit for. There's obviously more than one thing an ad carry needs to be useful, so how you weigh them isn't going to be the same for everyone.
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On December 16 2011 11:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:27 TieN.nS) wrote:On December 16 2011 10:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:02 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 16 2011 09:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 08:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Cait is a good late game carry because of her range. Its the reason kog maw is so good- range wins fights.
I mean, your talking about ad carry, a role that does most of its damage on autoattacks, with the same items across the board. They are going to do similar damage. The differentiating factors between them is if A) they have an escape, B) some sort of damage steroid, and C) their range.
Cait has an advantage in terms of a and c. Vayne has a and b. Kog'Maw was good because he had the highest range? No, his W does % max health damage! His range is certainly a plus as well, but he didn't penta teams because he had the highest range in the game. If you think this you're very silly. Range is definitely a part of it, but it's not even that important if it can be made up for in other areas see Vayne. I'd take a 80 or 90% aspd steroid over range any day. If you listened to any pro talk about kog maw back when he was super in fad for the IEMs it was his range, not the shred on his w that made him op. As for why he isnt played much anymore I expect it has something to do with the fact people are getting better at abusing matchups bot lane so that somebody who is weaker early like kog can get brutally raped and murdered in the laning phase. or the fact that he was nerfed significantly. I don't remember any pro talk about Kog'Maw being good because of his range during the IEMs although you could just assume that because the most played carries with Caitlyn and Kog'Maw, but I still think his %max health damage is more significant than his range. No, it's not. The ONLY reason the bonus damage matters is because he has amazing range to go with it. With low range and zero escapes it doesn't matter how high your potential DPS is because you're always in harm's way and will never get to just sit there and right-click. If you really think maximum theoretical damage is the only thing that matters, then why do you suppose people don't only play Twitch and Vayne? If all he had was the highest range he wouldn't be good either, and I don't recall ever saying that having the maximum potential DPS is the only thing that matters, especially in a laughable case like Twitch. I sure hope all five enemies on the team line up so I can get a pentakill! We can argue about this all night, but I still believe that the %maximum health is far more significant than anybody has given it credit for. There's obviously more than one thing an ad carry needs to be useful, so how you weigh them isn't going to be the same for everyone.
... Look at Caitlyn, who only has one pitiful steroid. Why is she good? Because her range allows her to hit people without getting hit back, and affords her the ability to position and right-click in situations that would be suicidal for ADs with lesser range.
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On December 16 2011 11:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:27 TieN.nS) wrote:On December 16 2011 10:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:02 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 16 2011 09:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 08:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Cait is a good late game carry because of her range. Its the reason kog maw is so good- range wins fights.
I mean, your talking about ad carry, a role that does most of its damage on autoattacks, with the same items across the board. They are going to do similar damage. The differentiating factors between them is if A) they have an escape, B) some sort of damage steroid, and C) their range.
Cait has an advantage in terms of a and c. Vayne has a and b. Kog'Maw was good because he had the highest range? No, his W does % max health damage! His range is certainly a plus as well, but he didn't penta teams because he had the highest range in the game. If you think this you're very silly. Range is definitely a part of it, but it's not even that important if it can be made up for in other areas see Vayne. I'd take a 80 or 90% aspd steroid over range any day. If you listened to any pro talk about kog maw back when he was super in fad for the IEMs it was his range, not the shred on his w that made him op. As for why he isnt played much anymore I expect it has something to do with the fact people are getting better at abusing matchups bot lane so that somebody who is weaker early like kog can get brutally raped and murdered in the laning phase. or the fact that he was nerfed significantly. I don't remember any pro talk about Kog'Maw being good because of his range during the IEMs although you could just assume that because the most played carries with Caitlyn and Kog'Maw, but I still think his %max health damage is more significant than his range. No, it's not. The ONLY reason the bonus damage matters is because he has amazing range to go with it. With low range and zero escapes it doesn't matter how high your potential DPS is because you're always in harm's way and will never get to just sit there and right-click. If you really think maximum theoretical damage is the only thing that matters, then why do you suppose people don't only play Twitch and Vayne? If all he had was the highest range he wouldn't be good either, and I don't recall ever saying that having the maximum potential DPS is the only thing that matters, especially in a laughable case like Twitch. I sure hope all five enemies on the team line up so I can get a pentakill! We can argue about this all night, but I still believe that the %maximum health is far more significant than anybody has given it credit for. There's obviously more than one thing an ad carry needs to be useful, so how you weigh them isn't going to be the same for everyone.
the thing is he has no escapes, so without high range he's going to get dived all day. his DPS is ok but still not as great as you think. although his steroid scales with health, it's magic damage and doesn't scale multiplicatively with any stat except attack speed, unlike Trist's steroid who scales with everything.
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On December 16 2011 10:58 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Random thought: why has no one mentioned Corki?
Still deals very good damage, great poke, great escape skill....? Low attack range and everyone rushes Trinity on him so he has good midgame but worse lategame than the AD carries that build standard. edit: Although, I really love Corki so I hope players start playing him again. He's the most fun AD carry to play imo.
iunno if he has worse lategame...his burst potential in midgame becomes a pretty insane sustained damage in lategame. not as high as vayne, but still quite strong. his biggest weakness is his low range, but that doesn't stop graves/vayne from being played.
corki's passive is ridic when you have Triforce+BT
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On December 16 2011 11:08 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:58 overt wrote:On December 16 2011 10:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Random thought: why has no one mentioned Corki?
Still deals very good damage, great poke, great escape skill....? Low attack range and everyone rushes Trinity on him so he has good midgame but worse lategame than the AD carries that build standard. edit: Although, I really love Corki so I hope players start playing him again. He's the most fun AD carry to play imo. iunno if he has worse lategame...his burst potential in midgame becomes a pretty insane sustained damage in lategame. not as high as vayne, but still quite strong. his biggest weakness is his low range, but that doesn't stop graves/vayne from being played. corki's passive is ridic when you have Triforce+BT
But Triforce+BT isn't as good as IE+PD on the other AD carries. And IE+PD is cheaper.
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On December 16 2011 07:51 Requizen wrote:
Have we talked about the new Tabi yet? 30 armor 10% Damage Reduction from auto attacks?
Better than the movement collision one, imo. o.O
erm there are possible reasons why new one could be better.
assuming the dmg reduction works on stuff like parleyy and mystic shot, then it could be better
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On December 16 2011 11:04 TieN.nS) wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 11:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:27 TieN.nS) wrote:On December 16 2011 10:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:02 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 16 2011 09:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 08:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Cait is a good late game carry because of her range. Its the reason kog maw is so good- range wins fights.
I mean, your talking about ad carry, a role that does most of its damage on autoattacks, with the same items across the board. They are going to do similar damage. The differentiating factors between them is if A) they have an escape, B) some sort of damage steroid, and C) their range.
Cait has an advantage in terms of a and c. Vayne has a and b. Kog'Maw was good because he had the highest range? No, his W does % max health damage! His range is certainly a plus as well, but he didn't penta teams because he had the highest range in the game. If you think this you're very silly. Range is definitely a part of it, but it's not even that important if it can be made up for in other areas see Vayne. I'd take a 80 or 90% aspd steroid over range any day. If you listened to any pro talk about kog maw back when he was super in fad for the IEMs it was his range, not the shred on his w that made him op. As for why he isnt played much anymore I expect it has something to do with the fact people are getting better at abusing matchups bot lane so that somebody who is weaker early like kog can get brutally raped and murdered in the laning phase. or the fact that he was nerfed significantly. I don't remember any pro talk about Kog'Maw being good because of his range during the IEMs although you could just assume that because the most played carries with Caitlyn and Kog'Maw, but I still think his %max health damage is more significant than his range. No, it's not. The ONLY reason the bonus damage matters is because he has amazing range to go with it. With low range and zero escapes it doesn't matter how high your potential DPS is because you're always in harm's way and will never get to just sit there and right-click. If you really think maximum theoretical damage is the only thing that matters, then why do you suppose people don't only play Twitch and Vayne? If all he had was the highest range he wouldn't be good either, and I don't recall ever saying that having the maximum potential DPS is the only thing that matters, especially in a laughable case like Twitch. I sure hope all five enemies on the team line up so I can get a pentakill! We can argue about this all night, but I still believe that the %maximum health is far more significant than anybody has given it credit for. There's obviously more than one thing an ad carry needs to be useful, so how you weigh them isn't going to be the same for everyone. ... Look at Caitlyn, who only has one pitiful steroid. Why is she good? Because her range allows her to hit people without getting hit back, and affords her the ability to position and right-click in situations that would be suicidal for ADs with lesser range.
I wouldn't call Caitlyn good personally, and she also has a kit that allows her to bully very very hard. When was the last time you won a game as Caitlyn when you got later in the game on equal terms? Probably never because range differentials really aren't all that.
On December 16 2011 11:06 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 11:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:27 TieN.nS) wrote:On December 16 2011 10:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:02 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 16 2011 09:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 16 2011 08:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Cait is a good late game carry because of her range. Its the reason kog maw is so good- range wins fights.
I mean, your talking about ad carry, a role that does most of its damage on autoattacks, with the same items across the board. They are going to do similar damage. The differentiating factors between them is if A) they have an escape, B) some sort of damage steroid, and C) their range.
Cait has an advantage in terms of a and c. Vayne has a and b. Kog'Maw was good because he had the highest range? No, his W does % max health damage! His range is certainly a plus as well, but he didn't penta teams because he had the highest range in the game. If you think this you're very silly. Range is definitely a part of it, but it's not even that important if it can be made up for in other areas see Vayne. I'd take a 80 or 90% aspd steroid over range any day. If you listened to any pro talk about kog maw back when he was super in fad for the IEMs it was his range, not the shred on his w that made him op. As for why he isnt played much anymore I expect it has something to do with the fact people are getting better at abusing matchups bot lane so that somebody who is weaker early like kog can get brutally raped and murdered in the laning phase. or the fact that he was nerfed significantly. I don't remember any pro talk about Kog'Maw being good because of his range during the IEMs although you could just assume that because the most played carries with Caitlyn and Kog'Maw, but I still think his %max health damage is more significant than his range. No, it's not. The ONLY reason the bonus damage matters is because he has amazing range to go with it. With low range and zero escapes it doesn't matter how high your potential DPS is because you're always in harm's way and will never get to just sit there and right-click. If you really think maximum theoretical damage is the only thing that matters, then why do you suppose people don't only play Twitch and Vayne? If all he had was the highest range he wouldn't be good either, and I don't recall ever saying that having the maximum potential DPS is the only thing that matters, especially in a laughable case like Twitch. I sure hope all five enemies on the team line up so I can get a pentakill! We can argue about this all night, but I still believe that the %maximum health is far more significant than anybody has given it credit for. There's obviously more than one thing an ad carry needs to be useful, so how you weigh them isn't going to be the same for everyone. the thing is he has no escapes, so without high range he's going to get dived all day. his DPS is ok but still not as great as you think. although his steroid scales with health, it's magic damage and doesn't scale multiplicatively with any stat except attack speed, unlike Trist's steroid who scales with everything.
I don't remember saying Kog'Maw's late game damage scales better than tristana, and his high range doesn't prevent him from getting dived either. It definitely helps him when he does get dived, but you need to stop thinking in absolutes about everything. His range and the %maximum damage were a factor in why he was good. There is this gray area that exists that I think you need to consider. I suggest we just agree to disagree if you're really that adamant about changing my opinion because that's all you're going to get.
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On December 16 2011 11:20 nyxnyxnyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 07:51 Requizen wrote:
Have we talked about the new Tabi yet? 30 armor 10% Damage Reduction from auto attacks?
Better than the movement collision one, imo. o.O erm there are possible reasons why new one could be better. assuming the dmg reduction works on stuff like parleyy and mystic shot, then it could be better
and more armor vs spears and shit
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On December 16 2011 11:15 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 11:08 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 16 2011 10:58 overt wrote:On December 16 2011 10:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Random thought: why has no one mentioned Corki?
Still deals very good damage, great poke, great escape skill....? Low attack range and everyone rushes Trinity on him so he has good midgame but worse lategame than the AD carries that build standard. edit: Although, I really love Corki so I hope players start playing him again. He's the most fun AD carry to play imo. iunno if he has worse lategame...his burst potential in midgame becomes a pretty insane sustained damage in lategame. not as high as vayne, but still quite strong. his biggest weakness is his low range, but that doesn't stop graves/vayne from being played. corki's passive is ridic when you have Triforce+BT But Triforce+BT isn't as good as IE+PD on the other AD carries. And IE+PD is cheaper.
I don't think you can make blanket statements like that. If IE+PD was definitely better than Triforce+BT then everyone would just get IE+PD on corki.
On December 16 2011 11:20 nyxnyxnyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 07:51 Requizen wrote:
Have we talked about the new Tabi yet? 30 armor 10% Damage Reduction from auto attacks?
Better than the movement collision one, imo. o.O erm there are possible reasons why new one could be better. assuming the dmg reduction works on stuff like parleyy and mystic shot, then it could be better
I'm pretty sure it's only autoattacks. No reduction v. parleyy and mystic shot.
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On December 16 2011 10:56 57 Corvette wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:31 Schmieds wrote:On December 16 2011 09:42 57 Corvette wrote:
Wtf...
I play a ranked game, lose because of a griefer, whatever.
Next ranked game I start, go through champ select, game starts, gives me an error when it tries to launch, saying I don't have some DLL file.
>_>
And after restarting my client like 4 times, it works
Wierd
User was warned for this post You don't have LOL Replay running do you? Yeah, could that be the problem?
Yes, I have the same thing and the only thing that stops it is closing LOL Replay. Unfortunately.
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On December 16 2011 11:22 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I don't remember saying Kog'Maw's late game damage scales better than tristana, and his high range doesn't prevent him from getting dived either. It definitely helps him when he does get dived, but you need to stop thinking in absolutes about everything. His range and the %maximum damage were a factor in why he was good. There is this gray area that exists that I think you need to consider. I suggest we just agree to disagree if you're really that adamant about changing my opinion because that's all you're going to get.
if Tristana's late game damage scales better than Kog's, then what does Kog have that Trist doesn't? and that was actually my first post on the topic so I don't know why you think I'm adamant about Kog being a sucky pick. I just don't get where you're coming from since all you basically said was "Kog's % based magic damage is good, I promise" without really explaining how it's better than Vayne's true damage or building a Madred's Bloodrazor on Trist.
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Scarra spilling the IPL beans on SotL (unless this has been announced elsewhere?)
He is saying that there will be 4 LAN events next year, once every three months.
And, to "take a page from SotG" perhaps, they are going to have a drinking episode next week... So transparent.
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EPT
