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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 30 2011 01:30 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 01:24 Unentschieden wrote:
Yeah, while Death is the obvious augment for maximum DPS I can see Gravity being the more usefull overall since W is such a nasty CC that also adresses Viktors key weakness: low range.
The Power augment is weird to me, it´s the defensive one but it gives the MS boost on his lowest ranged ability and it activates when you get the shield, aka the point when you WANT to trade hits. Wait, are you joking me? That "e" and that ulti, and the giant aoe from his "w" (remember aoe only has to be 50% of it in the range) is "low range". Can't tell if trolling. If anything, Viktor's strength is his long range poke, not to mention a lot of AoE damage, also a lot of his abilities makes it look he can kite a lot of people.
In an actual game people will try to dodge his stuff - W is meh if you only catch someone on the edge since they can run out of it, not only migitating the stun but also the reaplication of the slow. His E is among the slowest moving shots in the game. Even Q is weakened somewhat since the longer it´s in the air the less reliable it is for migitating damage. And just to keep the theme R moves slow if far away from Viktor.
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Malphite jungle so much fun.
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On December 30 2011 01:47 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 01:30 wei2coolman wrote:On December 30 2011 01:24 Unentschieden wrote:
Yeah, while Death is the obvious augment for maximum DPS I can see Gravity being the more usefull overall since W is such a nasty CC that also adresses Viktors key weakness: low range.
The Power augment is weird to me, it´s the defensive one but it gives the MS boost on his lowest ranged ability and it activates when you get the shield, aka the point when you WANT to trade hits. Wait, are you joking me? That "e" and that ulti, and the giant aoe from his "w" (remember aoe only has to be 50% of it in the range) is "low range". Can't tell if trolling. If anything, Viktor's strength is his long range poke, not to mention a lot of AoE damage, also a lot of his abilities makes it look he can kite a lot of people. In an actual game people will try to dodge his stuff - W is meh if you only catch someone on the edge since they can run out of it, not only migitating the stun but also the reaplication of the slow. His E is among the slowest moving shots in the game. Even Q is weakened somewhat since the longer it´s in the air the less reliable it is for migitating damage. And just to keep the theme R moves slow if far away from Viktor.
His E is no slower than Rumble's ulti, and considering the variety of motions, as long as you're not trying to hit him with the very tip of the E, you should be able to reliably hit whoever you want.
Though I agree with the Q, I'm sure you can open up with that, upon closer range, then as they run away, follow up with a E.
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On December 29 2011 21:27 Blyf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Yes Vayne's W doesn't make up a huge portion of her damage. Neither does any other steroid in the game
The thing about Vayne's W is that if you math out the gold value in terms of equivalent real AD, it has significantly higher gold value than even activatable steroids, such as Tristana's W, even if you account for the unreliability of having to hit 3 consecutive times.
To illustrate:
Consider an average tanky target HP lategame with 3000 HP and 150 armor. From a practical standpoint, this 150 armor is only actually worth about 70 armor, after ArPen marks and LW/10% ArPen mastery. This is a 41% damage reduction, which means that true damage is worth 70% more than plain AD.
The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD. 170 normal AD is worth 5610 gold (based on BF Sword which is 1650 gold for 50 AD), which is worth more than TWICE as much as the gold value of Tristana's Q (based on Recurve Bow, which is 40% aspd for 1050 gold). Put a different way, even if you only get to proc Vayne's W once every 7 attacks, it's still worth more gold in steroid value than Tristana's Q, and Tristana's Q isn't always on.
It's probably not on it's own what makes her strong, but when one of your skills is significantly stronger than all comparable skills on similar champions, it makes making your kit well rounded somewhat awkward. This calculation leaves out the fact that Vayne's W does not scale with crit, which is significant. Gold value from the bonus AD from W should be compared to the gold value of on hit modifiers like Wit's End or Madred's Bloodrazor - they also do not scale with crit, hence the lower gold cost per AD. On hit AD modifiers are tricky to value in gold, so let us look at the end result instead. Consider your case of a 3000 hp tank with 150 armor, resulting in an equivalent 170 AD gain per attack from W. Now let us compare Vayne to Tristana at at level 18, with an inventory consisting of Berserkers Greaves, Phantom Dancer, Infinity Edge and Last Whisper. (Standard AD carry runes, masteries etc.) Damage per second: Vayne without W: 695 Vayne with W: 959 Bonus dps from W: 264 Tristana without Q: 661 Tristana with Q: 915 Bonus dps from Q: 254 So Vayne's 264 are actually very close to Tristana's 254 making the steroids comparable. And don't forget the advantagous case for Vayne. For any target with lower hp/armor Tristana's Q will come out more valuable, and likewise any extra dps items purchased will add to Tristana's Q pulling ahead. And this is assuming max amount of procs from Vayne's W. TL;DR The above post left out the exponentially scaling properties of dps items. Tristana's Q adds comparable or more dps than Vayne's W in most circumstances (unless the target is very tanky). PS. TheYango I enjoy your posts as they are always informative.
YAY
A response with actual evidence1
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT
