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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 29 2011 15:40 icemanzdoinwork wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 15:28 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 15:12 Ryalnos wrote:On December 29 2011 15:05 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 14:30 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:41 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly". I enjoy that you state a lot of scenarios that you can actually avoid. You simply just listed a lot of instances where the player can actually just avoid or take advantage of the situation. Caitlyn camping bush? Lead CV and Headbutt Pulv with alistar and vayne shits on caitlyn into wall. Getting stunned by ashe from across the map? Learn to move faster when you see a huge fucking arrow on your screen. Getting poked by Kog and Corki's R? Dodge it. Getting baited by sivir's shield? Don't be stupid. You really cannot avoid vayne if she choses to engage you into a fight due to her passive. Especially pre-6 with a support can provides CC, she can generally put the other carry in a duel. a. Please learn reading comprehension. "Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn" =/= "Caitlyn camping bush". "Not being able ot harass sivir with spells..." =/= "Getting baited by sivir's shield". Sorry for being rude but you're kinda calling me a moron based on not accurately reading what I wrote. b. So your logic is that against ashe arrow/kog poke, well, you can dodge that. But against Vayne, well, if she wants to fight you then theres absolutely nothing you can do? I'm sorry but that's just wrong. If you're playing a character that loses in duels against Vayne (and there are some that don't, like Graves), then you can.... not duel her. And yeah she has a decent turn of speed so take that into account and just don't everextend. Its that simple. Oh yeah, and simple =/= easy. So I'm not saying "don't overextend" is easy to do.... but neither is "just dodge Kog R". Wait, does Graves actually win 1v1, and what stage of the game (early mid late) are we talking about? In my (limited) experience Graves beats vayne 1v1 in early through mid game; I don't know enough to tell you when vayne becomes stronger (or if, but I'd assume that it happens at some point). Other people who play vayne seem to agree on that. I'm no authority, though - you'd have to ask someone better than me. I'm not that great either, but graves is just such a problem for me early game. It's even worst if he has sona/Ali. If I'm top pick. I just ban him. I want to say his passive is op, but I dont know.
He's also got a ridiculous level 6 burst combo - QR is 475 (+2.6 bonus AD) damage, and with Sona, a DBlade and Flat Damage runes..
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Graves vs Vayne might be a bit graves favored, I still believe it comes down more to your skill and the skill of your support. I've won countless vayne vs graves lanes but i also remember losing some
Though whenever i see they have graves I just pick caitlyn and win anyway
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On December 29 2011 15:51 OutlaW- wrote:
Graves vs Vayne might be a bit graves favored, I still believe it comes down more to your skill and the skill of your support. I've won countless vayne vs graves lanes but i also remember losing some
Though whenever i see they have graves I just pick caitlyn and win anyway
I would definitely say laning phase is usually in favor of graves, but late game if you're a decent vayne and kept on par with farm, vayne RAPES late game.
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On December 29 2011 15:46 wei2coolman wrote:That "e" poke looks broken.....
yeah range looks a little bit bonkers. Click and drag spells seem hard to dodge too, gonna have to look into maxing that first for sure!
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On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal.
i'm a bit late here but actually most of that reddit post is garbage in my opinion
obviously i always look to TheYango to give more solid and proveable mathematical numbers, but just look at it from a logical standpoint too. let's say you're tristana with infinite edge and phantom dancer and you hit enemy MF with 70 armor and 2000 HP. each hit is gonna do X damage and it's gonna take Y amount of hits to kill her, right? now let's say rammus rushes you, he's got 350 armor with his W on, and 3000 HP. each hit is gonna do like X/10 damage or something ridiculously low, and it's gonna take 20Y hits to kill him. the armor he has is ridiculously strong against you, each point of armor makes each point of HP better, and vice versa
now let's say you're vayne with IE/PD, attacking the same targets. it's gonna take you about the same to kill MF, BUT when attacking rammus, your attacks do *more* damage because (a) they bypass his armor, (b)he has more health, and (c) they do %-based damage. it's just a stupid concept
not to mention what other people have said, the reddit guy ignores her biggest strengths: her free reposition that also empowers her next attack AND makes her invisible, her ability to chase anyone because of passive, her tristana ult every 10s on her E that ALSO stuns if you fight in the forest/anywhere that's not middle of mid lane or river.
plus throw in the fact that he actually used a comparison that "well her damage only comes from her auto attacks, other champs have abilities that do damage too!!!" like that's a good thing lol. when do you ever use piltover or double-up in a teamfight? only when you want to interrupt your 1.8AS damage output for a weak nuke. that's another point he used against vayne when really it's in her favor
basically dodge and -AS counter vayne atm. and riot is removing dodge soon. so that means the only reliable counter to vayne will be -AS. vayne will be a top pick/ban as soon as it happens because she'll be in a league of her own for AD. which will in turn make malphite a top pick/ban too as the best counter to her
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Hi guys which skin do you think is better?
Poll: Which skin is betterEaster Bunny Teemo (14) 52% Astronaut Teemo (13) 48% 27 total votes Your vote: Which skin is better (Vote): Astronaut Teemo
(Vote): Easter Bunny Teemo
(the answer should be obvious)
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On December 29 2011 16:04 deskscaress wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. i'm a bit late here but actually most of that reddit post is garbage in my opinion obviously i always look to TheYango to give more solid and proveable mathematical numbers, but just look at it from a logical standpoint too. let's say you're tristana with infinite edge and phantom dancer and you hit enemy MF with 70 armor and 2000 HP. each hit is gonna do X damage and it's gonna take Y amount of hits to kill her, right? now let's say rammus rushes you, he's got 350 armor with his W on, and 3000 HP. each hit is gonna do like X/10 damage or something ridiculously low, and it's gonna take 20Y hits to kill him. the armor he has is ridiculously strong against you, each point of armor makes each point of HP better, and vice versa now let's say you're vayne with IE/PD, attacking the same targets. it's gonna take you about the same to kill MF, BUT when attacking rammus, your attacks do *more* damage because (a) they bypass his armor, (b)he has more health, and (c) they do %-based damage. it's just a stupid concept not to mention what other people have said, the reddit guy ignores her biggest strengths: her free reposition that also empowers her next attack AND makes her invisible, her ability to chase anyone because of passive, her tristana ult every 10s on her E that ALSO stuns if you fight in the forest/anywhere that's not middle of mid lane or river. plus throw in the fact that he actually used a comparison that "well her damage only comes from her auto attacks, other champs have abilities that do damage too!!!" like that's a good thing lol. when do you ever use piltover or double-up in a teamfight? only when you want to interrupt your 1.8AS damage output for a weak nuke. that's another point he used against vayne when really it's in her favor basically dodge and -AS counter vayne atm. and riot is removing dodge soon. so that means the only reliable counter to vayne will be -AS. vayne will be a top pick/ban as soon as it happens because she'll be in a league of her own for AD. which will in turn make malphite a top pick/ban too as the best counter to her
did you read the redit post? he didn't ignore tumble at all. the whole point of his post was that while w is good vaynes real power comes from the slipperiness and ad scaling her other 3 skills give her. from reading your post it sonds like you think the redit guy just said that vayne and her skills are poop.
also why when people talk about strong champs do they say they get "free" sustain/damage/defensive stats/ect. it makes it sound like every other champ only just has empty skill bars.
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Nasus, Lee Sin, Gragas and Ezreal all also have strong attack speed debuffs.
If you're really worried about Vayne, you could field those four as team plus Malphite/Nunu/Teemo as support. Easy win. 
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On December 29 2011 16:35 jadoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 16:04 deskscaress wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. i'm a bit late here but actually most of that reddit post is garbage in my opinion obviously i always look to TheYango to give more solid and proveable mathematical numbers, but just look at it from a logical standpoint too. let's say you're tristana with infinite edge and phantom dancer and you hit enemy MF with 70 armor and 2000 HP. each hit is gonna do X damage and it's gonna take Y amount of hits to kill her, right? now let's say rammus rushes you, he's got 350 armor with his W on, and 3000 HP. each hit is gonna do like X/10 damage or something ridiculously low, and it's gonna take 20Y hits to kill him. the armor he has is ridiculously strong against you, each point of armor makes each point of HP better, and vice versa now let's say you're vayne with IE/PD, attacking the same targets. it's gonna take you about the same to kill MF, BUT when attacking rammus, your attacks do *more* damage because (a) they bypass his armor, (b)he has more health, and (c) they do %-based damage. it's just a stupid concept not to mention what other people have said, the reddit guy ignores her biggest strengths: her free reposition that also empowers her next attack AND makes her invisible, her ability to chase anyone because of passive, her tristana ult every 10s on her E that ALSO stuns if you fight in the forest/anywhere that's not middle of mid lane or river. plus throw in the fact that he actually used a comparison that "well her damage only comes from her auto attacks, other champs have abilities that do damage too!!!" like that's a good thing lol. when do you ever use piltover or double-up in a teamfight? only when you want to interrupt your 1.8AS damage output for a weak nuke. that's another point he used against vayne when really it's in her favor basically dodge and -AS counter vayne atm. and riot is removing dodge soon. so that means the only reliable counter to vayne will be -AS. vayne will be a top pick/ban as soon as it happens because she'll be in a league of her own for AD. which will in turn make malphite a top pick/ban too as the best counter to her did you read the redit post? he didn't ignore tumble at all. the whole point of his post was that while w is good vaynes real power comes from the slipperiness and ad scaling her other 3 skills give her. from reading your post it sonds like you think the redit guy just said that vayne and her skills are poop. also why when people talk about strong champs do they say they get "free" sustain/damage/defensive stats/ect. it makes it sound like every other champ only just has empty skill bars.
yes i read the reddit post and like i said it was garbage. it made no sense whatsoever and was blatantly wrong, probably written by someone who builds madred's bloodrazor on pantheon
and by "free" i meant no manacost, no cooldown, extra stats
compare corki's jump which has 6times the cooldown, or tristana's jump which doesn't give her 60% bonus AD on next attack, or cait's which doesn't stealth her. vayne's is just better in every aspect except it doesn't apply a slow, but then again she has hard CC unlike the above 3
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On December 29 2011 16:43 Alzadar wrote:Nasus, Lee Sin, Gragas and Ezreal all also have strong attack speed debuffs. If you're really worried about Vayne, you could field those four as team plus Malphite/Nunu/Teemo as support. Easy win.
nasus and leesin, yes, i totally forgot about them, herp
nasus definitely has the best and leesin's is nothing to scoff at
a good vayne will never get hit by a gragas barrel tho so i didn't count him, although i considered him. ezreal probably won't ever get in range to use his -AS on vayne, they are usually attacking the other team's respective bruisers/tanks instead of each other. does nunu's iceball slow AS or just MS? if so, okay, nunu too. so 3 champs out of 90 lol. i know my 3 bans if i want to pick vayne
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On December 29 2011 16:04 deskscaress wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. i'm a bit late here but actually most of that reddit post is garbage in my opinion obviously i always look to TheYango to give more solid and proveable mathematical numbers, but just look at it from a logical standpoint too. let's say you're tristana with infinite edge and phantom dancer and you hit enemy MF with 70 armor and 2000 HP. each hit is gonna do X damage and it's gonna take Y amount of hits to kill her, right? now let's say rammus rushes you, he's got 350 armor with his W on, and 3000 HP. each hit is gonna do like X/10 damage or something ridiculously low, and it's gonna take 20Y hits to kill him. the armor he has is ridiculously strong against you, each point of armor makes each point of HP better, and vice versa now let's say you're vayne with IE/PD, attacking the same targets. it's gonna take you about the same to kill MF, BUT when attacking rammus, your attacks do *more* damage because (a) they bypass his armor, (b)he has more health, and (c) they do %-based damage. it's just a stupid concept not to mention what other people have said, the reddit guy ignores her biggest strengths: her free reposition that also empowers her next attack AND makes her invisible, her ability to chase anyone because of passive, her tristana ult every 10s on her E that ALSO stuns if you fight in the forest/anywhere that's not middle of mid lane or river. plus throw in the fact that he actually used a comparison that "well her damage only comes from her auto attacks, other champs have abilities that do damage too!!!" like that's a good thing lol. when do you ever use piltover or double-up in a teamfight? only when you want to interrupt your 1.8AS damage output for a weak nuke. that's another point he used against vayne when really it's in her favor basically dodge and -AS counter vayne atm. and riot is removing dodge soon. so that means the only reliable counter to vayne will be -AS. vayne will be a top pick/ban as soon as it happens because she'll be in a league of her own for AD. which will in turn make malphite a top pick/ban too as the best counter to her
I agree completely. What I would say, that in a 1v1 duel between AD carries, I would probably rank vayne somewhere in the middle. But in terms of overall ability to decimate tanks, and bruisers, puts her on top of the AD carry class. The only thing that I would says is a huge negative about Vayne is just a lack of an AoE skill to wipe a wave quickly.
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On December 29 2011 15:38 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 07:34 DoXa wrote:On December 29 2011 07:02 wei2coolman wrote:On December 29 2011 06:56 Requizen wrote:
So I decided to treat myself to $20 worth of RP and the 300 extra, bringing me to 3600+. What should I do with it? I usually use IP boost. skins aren't important to me. Champion sales, like Vayne was on sale for 290RP a few weeks back, and usually she's a 6300IP champ, so totally got a great deal for her. Best use of RP in terms of content unlock is usually IP boost, and Rune page. IP boost is a waste of RP unless you play ~7hours a day. math and comparison made in a reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/nrjws/have_rp_and_want_champs_ip_boost_or_outright_buy/ Is it bad that when IP boost I do a 24 hour binge? lol EDIT: Usually after a midterm, and my friend doesn't have work, we section off 24 hours just for ip boost. we grind all day, SO MUCH IP.
I think you're better off buying champions with RP when they're on sale. I doubt u farm more than 3k IP when you got the IP boost. that means over 30-50 wins, depending on your game durations.
As a side note. I'm thinking of banning Soraka at ~1500 elo just because as an AD carry it seems I can't carry my team very well because I can't just faceroll my opponents. I always trade better, but at the end of the day we don't get kills.
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OMG VIKTOR OUT NOW SDASDASKJDFJDSKAFGDKJFG
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First impressions:
His laning is a problem.
His harass is much weaker than many current AP mids and his mana costs don't allow for constant harass. He also can't even clear minions easily without maxing his LAZOR first, which is a viable strategy but maxing Q first seems more natural/allows easier time of harassing with shield.
W is pretty good, range is kinda meh. No reason to max it above other damage abilities.
Damage is decent, problem is he takes a while to ramp up and by that time most other champs are stronger than him.
Ult is HELLA strong if you can follow someone with it while tossing out other spells at the same time. NOT easy to do.
Um...yeah. Main issue I see is his laning will kill him completely. He's strong in teamfights but he will have a hard time keeping up. His poke is really great.
Could be completely wrong about all of this analysis btw. Try him out for yourselves.
Edit: Kyuubicake streaming him right now, 5HITCOMBO/Navitar duo queue on her team? Fun times.
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Teemo support or tristana > vayne
I ban her all the time because in soloqueue you can't trust your allie, but the way to destroy vayne is to either pick tristana, or teemo as support. + Show Spoiler +She beats ALL the other ad's, including graves, if equally skilled. And if you don't think true dmg based on hp is retarded then ask riot why they removed dodge "oh you can only counter it with 1 item" WELL YOU CAN"T EVEN COUNTER TRUE DMG BASED ON HP
But shes beatable, you just need a reliable ally. Also in proper 5x5's vayne turns into somewhat of a gamble, if other lanes lose and vayne wins then she'll just get dived upon and won't have any influence.
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Well it looks like Viktor is overpowered as fuck right now. 2.5k damage vs 100 mr in ~3 seconds from a 2/7, 110 cs viktor w/ roa and augment:death. His slows and stuns are completely absurd; he can permanently kite and stun a team.
If you get hit by his slow field, you 100% get stunned unless you can blink out of it. It needs to be 2-3 times longer before it stuns -- 1 second is a joke.
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On December 29 2011 15:11 Jaso wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 14:39 Skithiryx wrote:On December 29 2011 08:35 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 08:12 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 29 2011 07:57 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 07:03 Cloud9157 wrote:
I love this game.
Two teammates bitching at each other most of the game. I try to cool them down and then proceed to carry us (cause im motha fuckin kennen) on my back. God I love this little Squirrel/Chipmunk/whatever he is. Fell in love with Kennen today. How can a single champion be THAT fun? Op champs that take minimal skill are usually fun I mean, kennen is basically the epitome of press r and win second only to prenerf galio I actually enjoy his laning phase a lot more than the relatively dull teamfights. Even though I have to say, I feel like between energy, passive and W-passive management, hitting Qs and using E correctly, there's a lot more to do than pressing R. On December 29 2011 08:26 Jaso wrote:
Question: Probably going to head out to GameStop today and buy myself a bit of RP.. Not sure what amount though.
I'm mostly considering it for stuff on sale but also rune pages. I have 3 right now, so my question is whether or not having the full 10 pages is enough, or just having 4-5 is sufficient.
I'm currently ~1400elo, I have full sets for the following runes:
ArPen Marks
MPen Marks
AD Marks
I can get a full set of CritDmg Marks (Razer thingy)
Flat Armor Seals
MRegen/lvl Seals
MR/lvl Glyphs
AP/lvl Glyphs
Flat AP Glyphs
Flat AP Quints
Flat AD Quints
Flat ArPen Quints
Flat HP Quints
Flat MS Quints
I also already own most champs (maybe 15 that I don't own), so a lot of my future IP can go towards runes like HP/lvl seals and stuff.
So yeah, do you guys think 1 or 2 more pages will suffice, or if there's a use for having 10 pages? Thanks :D It depends on how specific you want your pages to be. I currently have 17 and I still could use 3 more. But then again, I have 5 pages who are exclusively devoted to AP champions. I don't run a generic AD Page, I mostly jungle stuff like Maokai and Skarner so they need their page, my best top champion is CDRWick who needs his own page, 3 pages for different supports, Ryze, Akali... It adds up. It all depends how much of a perfectionist you are, I guess. If riot ever made it so you could also have 20 mastery pages i'd be buying the next 10 rune pages so fast the servers would crash. Haha yeah you can have 20 mastery pages. Go crash the servers 
Nope, still can't 20 rune pages only.
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On December 29 2011 18:04 Mondieu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 15:38 wei2coolman wrote:On December 29 2011 07:34 DoXa wrote:On December 29 2011 07:02 wei2coolman wrote:On December 29 2011 06:56 Requizen wrote:
So I decided to treat myself to $20 worth of RP and the 300 extra, bringing me to 3600+. What should I do with it? I usually use IP boost. skins aren't important to me. Champion sales, like Vayne was on sale for 290RP a few weeks back, and usually she's a 6300IP champ, so totally got a great deal for her. Best use of RP in terms of content unlock is usually IP boost, and Rune page. IP boost is a waste of RP unless you play ~7hours a day. math and comparison made in a reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/nrjws/have_rp_and_want_champs_ip_boost_or_outright_buy/ Is it bad that when IP boost I do a 24 hour binge? lol EDIT: Usually after a midterm, and my friend doesn't have work, we section off 24 hours just for ip boost. we grind all day, SO MUCH IP. I think you're better off buying champions with RP when they're on sale. I doubt u farm more than 3k IP when you got the IP boost. that means over 30-50 wins, depending on your game durations. As a side note. I'm thinking of banning Soraka at ~1500 elo just because as an AD carry it seems I can't carry my team very well because I can't just faceroll my opponents. I always trade better, but at the end of the day we don't get kills.
Buying champs with RP doesnt get you runes, buying IP boosts does:p
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How exactly does viktor's ulti work? Like do you control it a la tibbers? or what? Is there a leash range? If so how far?
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I'm not too impressed with him, but then again, I haven't been with Ahri and she looks pretty viable. One thing I'm afraid of is him pushing the evolving double WotA meta onto the next level. Looks like a wonderful item to get on him.
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EPT
