EPT[Patch 1.0.0.131: Ahri] General Discussion - Page 198
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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler + If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried. - Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
Pretty good anyone? | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote: 109 CS at 12 minutes. Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W. any opinions? | ||
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
On December 29 2011 12:48 57 Corvette wrote: I think its the WotA's Aura that gives allies Spell vamp as well that makes it better than the quints. If you wanted to be a selfish bastard and keep all the stats to yourself, I suppose you can replace the WotA with spellvamp quints, but no one likes selfish people It's better than the quints because it gives 4 times the amount... | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote: What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W. any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The thing about Vayne's W is that if you math out the gold value in terms of equivalent real AD, it has significantly higher gold value than even activatable steroids, such as Tristana's W, even if you account for the unreliability of having to hit 3 consecutive times. To illustrate: Consider an average tanky target HP lategame with 3000 HP and 150 armor. From a practical standpoint, this 150 armor is only actually worth about 70 armor, after ArPen marks and LW/10% ArPen mastery. This is a 41% damage reduction, which means that true damage is worth 70% more than plain AD. The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD. 170 normal AD is worth 5610 gold (based on BF Sword which is 1650 gold for 50 AD), which is worth more than TWICE as much as the gold value of Tristana's Q (based on Recurve Bow, which is 40% aspd for 1050 gold). Put a different way, even if you only get to proc Vayne's W once every 7 attacks, it's still worth more gold in steroid value than Tristana's Q, and Tristana's Q isn't always on. It's probably not on it's own what makes her strong, but when one of your skills is significantly stronger than all comparable skills on similar champions, it makes making your kit well rounded somewhat awkward. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
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Soloside
United States1238 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote: I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote: What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W. any opinions? Played as Kennen vs Veigar Didn't really feel like risking FB against him so I just decided to see how good at farming he was. Turns out I was better and just decided to farm unless he came after me. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote: not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly". | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote: not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. That's one of her strengths. She has low range, but when she gets in and is not CCd, she is hard to stop. Just pick cait and dominate her with range, and when she jumps you, run (or E). | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
It seems that having more than one seems to be more of a convenience thing than anything, just convenient to not have to switch runes between matches. Just me, maybe. If you play with a group of people, you're generally knowing who you're going to play going into the match and can switch runes if need be. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote: Yes Vayne's W doesn't make up a huge portion of her damage. Neither does any other steroid in the game The thing about Vayne's W is that if you math out the gold value in terms of equivalent real AD, it has significantly higher gold value than even activatable steroids, such as Tristana's W, even if you account for the unreliability of having to hit 3 consecutive times. To illustrate: Consider an average tanky target HP lategame with 3000 HP and 150 armor. From a practical standpoint, this 150 armor is only actually worth about 70 armor, after ArPen marks and LW/10% ArPen mastery. This is a 41% damage reduction, which means that true damage is worth 70% more than plain AD. The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD. 170 normal AD is worth 5610 gold (based on BF Sword which is 1650 gold for 50 AD), which is worth more than TWICE as much as the gold value of Tristana's Q (based on Recurve Bow, which is 40% aspd for 1050 gold). Put a different way, even if you only get to proc Vayne's W once every 7 attacks, it's still worth more gold in steroid value than Tristana's Q, and Tristana's Q isn't always on. It's probably not on it's own what makes her strong, but when one of your skills is significantly stronger than all comparable skills on similar champions, it makes making your kit well rounded somewhat awkward. how does corki's passive compare to vayne's w? i was under the impression that it was significantly better, and he has a reposition skill as well, so there must be something in either knockback or ult that makes her significantly better. | ||
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote: What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W. any opinions? they spelled tryndamere wrong, lol | ||
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
Posted at: 8:03pm We will performing emergency network maintenance on our North America login, champion selection, and matchmaking services throughout this evening. A short outage could occur. Players in game should not see game play affected but may have to re-login at end of game. Holiday season so crippling to being able to play without lag. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
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Raynian
United States50 Posts
On December 29 2011 14:07 barbsq wrote: how does corki's passive compare to vayne's w? i was under the impression that it was significantly better, and he has a reposition skill as well, so there must be something in either knockback or ult that makes her significantly better. Even with a pure AD build on Corki, you're only going to be looking at around 30-35 true damage per hit, and there's no massive burst on it. It's there, it's somewhat significant, but it's not the Vayne level of dealing ~60-75 true damage per hit overall, lategame. And yeah, Corki's escape is amazing, but it's on a 20-12 second cooldown, instead of Vayne's 6-2 second cooldown that comes with free stealth and +60% damage on the next attack. Also consider that Corki -has- to build some form of mana, whether from Trifroce, manamune, or whatever, and often survivability as well. Vayne can just build pure DPS, rely on her absurd kit to keep her alive, and pump out damage faster than any other carry in the game. | ||
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