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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 29 2011 14:07 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote:
Yes Vayne's W doesn't make up a huge portion of her damage. Neither does any other steroid in the game
The thing about Vayne's W is that if you math out the gold value in terms of equivalent real AD, it has significantly higher gold value than even activatable steroids, such as Tristana's W, even if you account for the unreliability of having to hit 3 consecutive times.
To illustrate:
Consider an average tanky target HP lategame with 3000 HP and 150 armor. From a practical standpoint, this 150 armor is only actually worth about 70 armor, after ArPen marks and LW/10% ArPen mastery. This is a 41% damage reduction, which means that true damage is worth 70% more than plain AD.
The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD. 170 normal AD is worth 5610 gold (based on BF Sword which is 1650 gold for 50 AD), which is worth more than TWICE as much as the gold value of Tristana's Q (based on Recurve Bow, which is 40% aspd for 1050 gold). Put a different way, even if you only get to proc Vayne's W once every 7 attacks, it's still worth more gold in steroid value than Tristana's Q, and Tristana's Q isn't always on.
It's probably not on it's own what makes her strong, but when one of your skills is significantly stronger than all comparable skills on similar champions, it makes making your kit well rounded somewhat awkward. how does corki's passive compare to vayne's w? i was under the impression that it was significantly better, and he has a reposition skill as well, so there must be something in either knockback or ult that makes her significantly better.
ALL of her kit scales off of something.
Her passive gives her MS
q gives her more damage and can crit - it scales off AD + crit
w gives her more damage (true damage so can't be reduced by anything) and scales off AS
e scales of AD and gives her utiliy in the knockback + stun
r gives her even more AD (which her q and e scale off of), more MS from her passive, and also the stealth which allows her to disengage
Together her kit scales off not only items, but itself even better than any other AD. Champs like graves and trist have an AS steroid, but they actually need items to give them AD for that AS to be worthwhile, and their single steroids do not equate to the gold value of all of vayne's steroids. Vayne has no AS steroid but all her abilities are damage steroids, so with some AS + crit from items and she can out dps any ranged carry with similar gold.
Remember when Twitch used to be super broken because of how well his q + ult scaled together with items, so he could penta a team if they were slightly clumped together? Vayne has a similar thing lategame except that Riot smartened up a bit and didn't give her any AoE, so when she reaches lategame she can still only kill 1 at a time, unlike twitch who used to be able to penta the entire team in 3 seconds flat just by pressing r and right clicking.
Like she's not as OP as pre-nerf twitch because of that. She's still really strong, but she also brings no AoE to the table that all other AD's do, and she can get abused in lane pretty hard by anyone with superior range. So she obviously has downsides, but people tend to not always abuse it correctly and she ends up really farmed for lategame and then kites around the teamfight picking people off.
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On December 29 2011 13:41 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly".
I enjoy that you state a lot of scenarios that you can actually avoid. You simply just listed a lot of instances where the player can actually just avoid or take advantage of the situation. Caitlyn camping bush? Lead CV and Headbutt Pulv with alistar and vayne shits on caitlyn into wall. Getting stunned by ashe from across the map? Learn to move faster when you see a huge fucking arrow on your screen. Getting poked by Kog and Corki's R? Dodge it. Getting baited by sivir's shield? Don't be stupid.
You really cannot avoid vayne if she choses to engage you into a fight due to her passive. Especially pre-6 with a support can provides CC, she can generally put the other carry in a duel.
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On December 29 2011 08:35 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 08:12 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 29 2011 07:57 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 07:03 Cloud9157 wrote:
I love this game.
Two teammates bitching at each other most of the game. I try to cool them down and then proceed to carry us (cause im motha fuckin kennen) on my back. God I love this little Squirrel/Chipmunk/whatever he is. Fell in love with Kennen today. How can a single champion be THAT fun? Op champs that take minimal skill are usually fun  I mean, kennen is basically the epitome of press r and win second only to prenerf galio I actually enjoy his laning phase a lot more than the relatively dull teamfights. Even though I have to say, I feel like between energy, passive and W-passive management, hitting Qs and using E correctly, there's a lot more to do than pressing R. Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 08:26 Jaso wrote:
Question: Probably going to head out to GameStop today and buy myself a bit of RP.. Not sure what amount though.
I'm mostly considering it for stuff on sale but also rune pages. I have 3 right now, so my question is whether or not having the full 10 pages is enough, or just having 4-5 is sufficient.
I'm currently ~1400elo, I have full sets for the following runes:
ArPen Marks
MPen Marks
AD Marks
I can get a full set of CritDmg Marks (Razer thingy)
Flat Armor Seals
MRegen/lvl Seals
MR/lvl Glyphs
AP/lvl Glyphs
Flat AP Glyphs
Flat AP Quints
Flat AD Quints
Flat ArPen Quints
Flat HP Quints
Flat MS Quints
I also already own most champs (maybe 15 that I don't own), so a lot of my future IP can go towards runes like HP/lvl seals and stuff.
So yeah, do you guys think 1 or 2 more pages will suffice, or if there's a use for having 10 pages? Thanks :D It depends on how specific you want your pages to be. I currently have 17 and I still could use 3 more. But then again, I have 5 pages who are exclusively devoted to AP champions. I don't run a generic AD Page, I mostly jungle stuff like Maokai and Skarner so they need their page, my best top champion is CDRWick who needs his own page, 3 pages for different supports, Ryze, Akali... It adds up. It all depends how much of a perfectionist you are, I guess.
If riot ever made it so you could also have 20 mastery pages i'd be buying the next 10 rune pages so fast the servers would crash.
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Isn't the mastery page cap 20 now? Thought it was..
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On December 29 2011 14:24 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 14:07 barbsq wrote:On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote:
Yes Vayne's W doesn't make up a huge portion of her damage. Neither does any other steroid in the game
The thing about Vayne's W is that if you math out the gold value in terms of equivalent real AD, it has significantly higher gold value than even activatable steroids, such as Tristana's W, even if you account for the unreliability of having to hit 3 consecutive times.
To illustrate:
Consider an average tanky target HP lategame with 3000 HP and 150 armor. From a practical standpoint, this 150 armor is only actually worth about 70 armor, after ArPen marks and LW/10% ArPen mastery. This is a 41% damage reduction, which means that true damage is worth 70% more than plain AD.
The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD. 170 normal AD is worth 5610 gold (based on BF Sword which is 1650 gold for 50 AD), which is worth more than TWICE as much as the gold value of Tristana's Q (based on Recurve Bow, which is 40% aspd for 1050 gold). Put a different way, even if you only get to proc Vayne's W once every 7 attacks, it's still worth more gold in steroid value than Tristana's Q, and Tristana's Q isn't always on.
It's probably not on it's own what makes her strong, but when one of your skills is significantly stronger than all comparable skills on similar champions, it makes making your kit well rounded somewhat awkward. how does corki's passive compare to vayne's w? i was under the impression that it was significantly better, and he has a reposition skill as well, so there must be something in either knockback or ult that makes her significantly better. ALL of her kit scales off of something. Her passive gives her MS q gives her more damage and can crit - it scales off AD + crit w gives her more damage (true damage so can't be reduced by anything) and scales off AS e scales of AD and gives her utiliy in the knockback + stun r gives her even more AD (which her q and e scale off of), more MS from her passive, and also the stealth which allows her to disengage Together her kit scales off not only items, but itself even better than any other AD. Champs like graves and trist have an AS steroid, but they actually need items to give them AD for that AS to be worthwhile, and their single steroids do not equate to the gold value of all of vayne's steroids. Vayne has no AS steroid but all her abilities are damage steroids, so with some AS + crit from items and she can out dps any ranged carry with similar gold. Remember when Twitch used to be super broken because of how well his q + ult scaled together with items, so he could penta a team if they were slightly clumped together? Vayne has a similar thing lategame except that Riot smartened up a bit and didn't give her any AoE, so when she reaches lategame she can still only kill 1 at a time, unlike twitch who used to be able to penta the entire team in 3 seconds flat just by pressing r and right clicking. Like she's not as OP as pre-nerf twitch because of that. She's still really strong, but she also brings no AoE to the table that all other AD's do, and she can get abused in lane pretty hard by anyone with superior range. So she obviously has downsides, but people tend to not always abuse it correctly and she ends up really farmed for lategame and then kites around the teamfight picking people off.
well her q doesn't scale from crit, because the bonus dmg part doesn't crit. And it's just not worth using over a certain attackspeed for damage purposes.
for the mathcraft above:
the gold numbers for late game W are ridiculous, I never calculated this before. it really is huge compared to other steroids
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On December 29 2011 14:30 Soloside wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:41 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly". I enjoy that you state a lot of scenarios that you can actually avoid. You simply just listed a lot of instances where the player can actually just avoid or take advantage of the situation. Caitlyn camping bush? Lead CV and Headbutt Pulv with alistar and vayne shits on caitlyn into wall. Getting stunned by ashe from across the map? Learn to move faster when you see a huge fucking arrow on your screen. Getting poked by Kog and Corki's R? Dodge it. Getting baited by sivir's shield? Don't be stupid. You really cannot avoid vayne if she choses to engage you into a fight due to her passive. Especially pre-6 with a support can provides CC, she can generally put the other carry in a duel.
So, by that thinking, you should be able to exhaust or flash or something to avoid or mitigate Vayne's damage, right?
Also, you have to take into consideration that you most likely do not have the reaction speed necessary to dodge an arrow coming out of fog of war or a Corki R. And what if that Sivir player is just faster than you?
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On December 29 2011 14:30 Soloside wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:41 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly". I enjoy that you state a lot of scenarios that you can actually avoid. You simply just listed a lot of instances where the player can actually just avoid or take advantage of the situation. Caitlyn camping bush? Lead CV and Headbutt Pulv with alistar and vayne shits on caitlyn into wall. Getting stunned by ashe from across the map? Learn to move faster when you see a huge fucking arrow on your screen. Getting poked by Kog and Corki's R? Dodge it. Getting baited by sivir's shield? Don't be stupid. You really cannot avoid vayne if she choses to engage you into a fight due to her passive. Especially pre-6 with a support can provides CC, she can generally put the other carry in a duel.
a. Please learn reading comprehension. "Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn" =/= "Caitlyn camping bush". "Not being able ot harass sivir with spells..." =/= "Getting baited by sivir's shield". Sorry for being rude but you're kinda calling me a moron based on not accurately reading what I wrote.
b. So your logic is that against ashe arrow/kog poke, well, you can dodge that. But against Vayne, well, if she wants to fight you then theres absolutely nothing you can do? I'm sorry but that's just wrong. If you're playing a character that loses in duels against Vayne (and there are some that don't, like Graves), then you can.... not duel her. And yeah she has a decent turn of speed so take that into account and just don't everextend. Its that simple.
Oh yeah, and simple =/= easy. So I'm not saying "don't overextend" is easy to do.... but neither is "just dodge Kog R".
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On December 29 2011 14:39 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 08:35 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 08:12 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 29 2011 07:57 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 07:03 Cloud9157 wrote:
I love this game.
Two teammates bitching at each other most of the game. I try to cool them down and then proceed to carry us (cause im motha fuckin kennen) on my back. God I love this little Squirrel/Chipmunk/whatever he is. Fell in love with Kennen today. How can a single champion be THAT fun? Op champs that take minimal skill are usually fun I mean, kennen is basically the epitome of press r and win second only to prenerf galio I actually enjoy his laning phase a lot more than the relatively dull teamfights. Even though I have to say, I feel like between energy, passive and W-passive management, hitting Qs and using E correctly, there's a lot more to do than pressing R. On December 29 2011 08:26 Jaso wrote:
Question: Probably going to head out to GameStop today and buy myself a bit of RP.. Not sure what amount though.
I'm mostly considering it for stuff on sale but also rune pages. I have 3 right now, so my question is whether or not having the full 10 pages is enough, or just having 4-5 is sufficient.
I'm currently ~1400elo, I have full sets for the following runes:
ArPen Marks
MPen Marks
AD Marks
I can get a full set of CritDmg Marks (Razer thingy)
Flat Armor Seals
MRegen/lvl Seals
MR/lvl Glyphs
AP/lvl Glyphs
Flat AP Glyphs
Flat AP Quints
Flat AD Quints
Flat ArPen Quints
Flat HP Quints
Flat MS Quints
I also already own most champs (maybe 15 that I don't own), so a lot of my future IP can go towards runes like HP/lvl seals and stuff.
So yeah, do you guys think 1 or 2 more pages will suffice, or if there's a use for having 10 pages? Thanks :D It depends on how specific you want your pages to be. I currently have 17 and I still could use 3 more. But then again, I have 5 pages who are exclusively devoted to AP champions. I don't run a generic AD Page, I mostly jungle stuff like Maokai and Skarner so they need their page, my best top champion is CDRWick who needs his own page, 3 pages for different supports, Ryze, Akali... It adds up. It all depends how much of a perfectionist you are, I guess. If riot ever made it so you could also have 20 mastery pages i'd be buying the next 10 rune pages so fast the servers would crash.
Haha yeah you can have 20 mastery pages. Go crash the servers 
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On December 29 2011 15:05 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 14:30 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:41 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly". I enjoy that you state a lot of scenarios that you can actually avoid. You simply just listed a lot of instances where the player can actually just avoid or take advantage of the situation. Caitlyn camping bush? Lead CV and Headbutt Pulv with alistar and vayne shits on caitlyn into wall. Getting stunned by ashe from across the map? Learn to move faster when you see a huge fucking arrow on your screen. Getting poked by Kog and Corki's R? Dodge it. Getting baited by sivir's shield? Don't be stupid. You really cannot avoid vayne if she choses to engage you into a fight due to her passive. Especially pre-6 with a support can provides CC, she can generally put the other carry in a duel. a. Please learn reading comprehension. "Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn" =/= "Caitlyn camping bush". "Not being able ot harass sivir with spells..." =/= "Getting baited by sivir's shield". Sorry for being rude but you're kinda calling me a moron based on not accurately reading what I wrote. b. So your logic is that against ashe arrow/kog poke, well, you can dodge that. But against Vayne, well, if she wants to fight you then theres absolutely nothing you can do? I'm sorry but that's just wrong. If you're playing a character that loses in duels against Vayne (and there are some that don't, like Graves), then you can.... not duel her. And yeah she has a decent turn of speed so take that into account and just don't everextend. Its that simple. Oh yeah, and simple =/= easy. So I'm not saying "don't overextend" is easy to do.... but neither is "just dodge Kog R".
Wait, does Graves actually win 1v1, and what stage of the game (early mid late) are we talking about?
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If ashe is in another lane that your team member in that lane should warn you when ashe goes missing for a bit, and if the arrow is seen. In-lane arrows are easy to dodge with flash if it is used as an initiation; and this flash should be used offensively if possible as ashe without her ult already lost a significant amount of damage and cc.
Corki R can be dodge in situations, other times it cannot. Expect when the big ones are and be careful.
Sivir? If it's instant, it's mindgames. If it's a projectile, well then expect the enemy player to not be an idiot. Her level one shield lasts 3 seconds and is on a 22-second cooldown.
You shouldn't compare summoner spells to just regular spells.
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On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote:
Yes Vayne's W doesn't make up a huge portion of her damage. Neither does any other steroid in the game
Mundo / Yi / Sion at level 9 nearly double their damage with theirs.
On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote:
The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD.
She won't alway get the third proc so you can't directly compare it like that.
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I'm debating whether or not to get Viktor with IP or RP. On one hand, I have the IP for him. On the other, I don't actually have an AP rune page, so I might just use that IP for caster runes and get him (plus or minus skins) with RP.
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On December 29 2011 15:12 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 15:05 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 14:30 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:41 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly". I enjoy that you state a lot of scenarios that you can actually avoid. You simply just listed a lot of instances where the player can actually just avoid or take advantage of the situation. Caitlyn camping bush? Lead CV and Headbutt Pulv with alistar and vayne shits on caitlyn into wall. Getting stunned by ashe from across the map? Learn to move faster when you see a huge fucking arrow on your screen. Getting poked by Kog and Corki's R? Dodge it. Getting baited by sivir's shield? Don't be stupid. You really cannot avoid vayne if she choses to engage you into a fight due to her passive. Especially pre-6 with a support can provides CC, she can generally put the other carry in a duel. a. Please learn reading comprehension. "Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn" =/= "Caitlyn camping bush". "Not being able ot harass sivir with spells..." =/= "Getting baited by sivir's shield". Sorry for being rude but you're kinda calling me a moron based on not accurately reading what I wrote. b. So your logic is that against ashe arrow/kog poke, well, you can dodge that. But against Vayne, well, if she wants to fight you then theres absolutely nothing you can do? I'm sorry but that's just wrong. If you're playing a character that loses in duels against Vayne (and there are some that don't, like Graves), then you can.... not duel her. And yeah she has a decent turn of speed so take that into account and just don't everextend. Its that simple. Oh yeah, and simple =/= easy. So I'm not saying "don't overextend" is easy to do.... but neither is "just dodge Kog R". Wait, does Graves actually win 1v1, and what stage of the game (early mid late) are we talking about?
In my (limited) experience Graves beats vayne 1v1 in early through mid game; I don't know enough to tell you when vayne becomes stronger (or if, but I'd assume that it happens at some point). Other people who play vayne seem to agree on that. I'm no authority, though - you'd have to ask someone better than me.
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Damn, was hoping to be the first to post it.
So excited to get this guy going. Release him!
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His builds don't look... too bad. Starting Sapphire 2pot seems odd. I'd also want a WotA in there somewhere.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 29 2011 15:16 GranDim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote:
Yes Vayne's W doesn't make up a huge portion of her damage. Neither does any other steroid in the game Mundo / Yi / Sion at level 9 nearly double their damage with theirs. Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote:
The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD. She won't alway get the third proc so you can't directly compare it like that.
Did you even read my entire post? She could get a proc once every 7 attacks and it would still be a bigger steroid than Trist Q. The damage is strong enough that even losing targets/stacks 2-3 times before getting a successful proc is comparable to other active steroids
The reduction to per-attack damage is only for point of gold value comparison. I do account for the unreliability of getting a proc, which you would know if you actually read my whole post.
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On December 29 2011 07:34 DoXa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 07:02 wei2coolman wrote:On December 29 2011 06:56 Requizen wrote:
So I decided to treat myself to $20 worth of RP and the 300 extra, bringing me to 3600+. What should I do with it? I usually use IP boost. skins aren't important to me. Champion sales, like Vayne was on sale for 290RP a few weeks back, and usually she's a 6300IP champ, so totally got a great deal for her. Best use of RP in terms of content unlock is usually IP boost, and Rune page. IP boost is a waste of RP unless you play ~7hours a day. math and comparison made in a reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/nrjws/have_rp_and_want_champs_ip_boost_or_outright_buy/
Is it bad that when IP boost I do a 24 hour binge? lol
EDIT: Usually after a midterm, and my friend doesn't have work, we section off 24 hours just for ip boost. we grind all day, SO MUCH IP.
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On December 29 2011 15:28 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 15:12 Ryalnos wrote:On December 29 2011 15:05 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 14:30 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:41 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:31 Soloside wrote:On December 29 2011 13:15 Treadmill wrote:On December 29 2011 13:07 Shiv. wrote:On December 29 2011 13:02 Cloud9157 wrote:
109 CS at 12 minutes.
Pretty good anyone? What were you playing and against what? Also: Discussion about Vayne's W.any opinions? I 100% agree. All the "vayne true damage OP" nonsense is just tiring. He has a very good point about how she lacks basically anything other than straight single target damage, though he does underplay a.her hard cc (from condemn) b. her burst (ult/tumble/condemn/auto to proc tumble/auto to proc w) and c. her mobility (from q and her passive) which give her something other than just sustained autoattack damage. Her lack of wave-clearing though is a really big deal. not being able to exhaust reduce the true damage really sucks at dueling pre-6 in bot lane. just saying. Not being able to gank Ez easy once you blow his flash is annoying. Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn is annoying. Getting stunned from the other side of the map by ashe is annoying. Getting poked from beyond your ability to return damage by Kog or Corki is annoying. Not being able ot harass sivir with spells without just restoring her mana is annoying. All the characters have strengths. You can't take a single part of a characters kit and compare it to a single part of another characters kit and have any meaningful comment on balance. That'd be like saying, "hey, one zealot will always beat one zergling, clearly starcraft is broken horribly". I enjoy that you state a lot of scenarios that you can actually avoid. You simply just listed a lot of instances where the player can actually just avoid or take advantage of the situation. Caitlyn camping bush? Lead CV and Headbutt Pulv with alistar and vayne shits on caitlyn into wall. Getting stunned by ashe from across the map? Learn to move faster when you see a huge fucking arrow on your screen. Getting poked by Kog and Corki's R? Dodge it. Getting baited by sivir's shield? Don't be stupid. You really cannot avoid vayne if she choses to engage you into a fight due to her passive. Especially pre-6 with a support can provides CC, she can generally put the other carry in a duel. a. Please learn reading comprehension. "Not being able to camp the brush against Caitlyn" =/= "Caitlyn camping bush". "Not being able ot harass sivir with spells..." =/= "Getting baited by sivir's shield". Sorry for being rude but you're kinda calling me a moron based on not accurately reading what I wrote. b. So your logic is that against ashe arrow/kog poke, well, you can dodge that. But against Vayne, well, if she wants to fight you then theres absolutely nothing you can do? I'm sorry but that's just wrong. If you're playing a character that loses in duels against Vayne (and there are some that don't, like Graves), then you can.... not duel her. And yeah she has a decent turn of speed so take that into account and just don't everextend. Its that simple. Oh yeah, and simple =/= easy. So I'm not saying "don't overextend" is easy to do.... but neither is "just dodge Kog R". Wait, does Graves actually win 1v1, and what stage of the game (early mid late) are we talking about? In my (limited) experience Graves beats vayne 1v1 in early through mid game; I don't know enough to tell you when vayne becomes stronger (or if, but I'd assume that it happens at some point). Other people who play vayne seem to agree on that. I'm no authority, though - you'd have to ask someone better than me.
I'm not that great either, but graves is just such a problem for me early game. It's even worst if he has sona/Ali. If I'm top pick. I just ban him.
I want to say his passive is op, but I dont know.
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That "e" poke looks broken.....
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EPT
