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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 16 2011 12:30 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 12:25 overt wrote:
People build Trinity on Corki for his midgame. If you have Corki with IE+PD he's gonna outdamage a Corki with Trinity+BT. People were building Manamune on Corki still when meta change first put him at botlane. Stop making me feel old for enjoying to play Corki solo mid. =(
Dude, Corki is still good as solo mid people are just dumb and will bitch if you don't put an AP carry mid. He shits on lots of stuff and ganks really hard cause of how much damage he does in midgame. You can easily run it anyways though and put an AP top like Swain or Kennen and then run like double bruiser botlane to shit all over their AD+support.
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On December 16 2011 12:33 gtrsrs wrote:
the new damage reduc is a replacement for dodge
i don't see why you'd think you'd get reduced damage from parrley when you couldn't dodge it and the damage reduc is a direct replacement for dodge
A) Because it isn't dodge
B) Because for example pantheon shield works on parley, why would it use a different definition of basic attack?
I'm not even arguing that it will, but you can't infer that it won't from the available evidence, that's just silly.
do you think you'll get reduced damage from tibbers aura, sunfire, and xin's E too? because that would be following the same line of logic - aka no line of logic
there's a clear line of logic. If you're not even going to read a conversation before jumping in why did you post? geez guitar.
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Because panth's shield BLOCKS autos + physical damage dealing abilities.
Dodge DODGES autos.
Sup. Logic.
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Massive lag spikes on NA atm. 5 different game-wide lag spikes over 40 minute period and no loss forgiven, real Riot.
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On December 16 2011 12:46 BlackPaladin wrote:
Because panth's shield BLOCKS autos + physical damage dealing abilities.
Dodge DODGES autos.
Sup. Logic.
gg blackpaladin
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On December 16 2011 12:46 BlackPaladin wrote:
Because panth's shield BLOCKS autos + physical damage dealing abilities.
Dodge DODGES autos.
Sup. Logic.
no it doesnt. it only blocks things that proc on-hit effects, like parley and ezreal q. it may block ashe volley too, but i can't remember for sure kus i havn't played that matchup in nearly a year.
edit: ah yeah, and it blocks the physical parts of next-hit modifiers, tho it doesn't block cc (i.e. garen's q, nasus q, etc)
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On December 16 2011 12:55 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 12:46 BlackPaladin wrote:
Because panth's shield BLOCKS autos + physical damage dealing abilities.
Dodge DODGES autos.
Sup. Logic. no it doesnt. it only blocks things that proc on-hit effects, like parley and ezreal q. it may block ashe volley too, but i can't remember for sure kus i havn't played that matchup in nearly a year. edit: ah yeah, and it blocks the physical parts of next-hit modifiers, tho it doesn't block cc (i.e. garen's q, nasus q, etc)
Yeah I should have added "that apply on hit effects." Like it won't block lee sin's q for instance.
But the point is, that comparing the boots to panth's passive is retarded as hell. They're 2 completely different mechanics that simply have the similarity of allowing you to mitigate more physical damage than normal.
If the boots are designed to replace dodge, they're more than likely only going to work on physical attacks only, and not physical damage abilities such as parley which has been undodgeable for the longest of times. But we can't know for sure until they're officially out, and not simply out on a test server so there's no point in arguing about it. :|
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On December 16 2011 12:33 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 12:30 r.Evo wrote:On December 16 2011 12:25 overt wrote:
People build Trinity on Corki for his midgame. If you have Corki with IE+PD he's gonna outdamage a Corki with Trinity+BT. People were building Manamune on Corki still when meta change first put him at botlane. Stop making me feel old for enjoying to play Corki solo mid. =( Dude, Corki is still good as solo mid people are just dumb and will bitch if you don't put an AP carry mid. He shits on lots of stuff and ganks really hard cause of how much damage he does in midgame. You can easily run it anyways though and put an AP top like Swain or Kennen and then run like double bruiser botlane to shit all over their AD+support.
Loads of AD carries are strong mid, it's just kinda impossible in solo q. I had people afk for calling Pantheon/Cait mid vs Kassadin after leaving him open on purpose. >_>
Anyway, since our first pick just grabbed Nunu and our top Jarman I did a nostalgic CORKI FUCK YES game. We won. Corki feels so weak compared to his old self. The end.
(Urfrider Corki still #1)
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AD carries are really strong in lane, but it's terrible to play them now because sometimes if you win your lane it doesn't even feel like much.
Like if I win lane with Sion/Kassadin, all 3 lanes will win because i gank everyone np
I win with corki, great I get to free farm, and carry everyone late game, but only if they don't completely lose lane.
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On December 16 2011 13:06 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 12:55 barbsq wrote:On December 16 2011 12:46 BlackPaladin wrote:
Because panth's shield BLOCKS autos + physical damage dealing abilities.
Dodge DODGES autos.
Sup. Logic. no it doesnt. it only blocks things that proc on-hit effects, like parley and ezreal q. it may block ashe volley too, but i can't remember for sure kus i havn't played that matchup in nearly a year. edit: ah yeah, and it blocks the physical parts of next-hit modifiers, tho it doesn't block cc (i.e. garen's q, nasus q, etc) Yeah I should have added "that apply on hit effects." Like it won't block lee sin's q for instance. But the point is, that comparing the boots to panth's passive is retarded as hell. They're 2 completely different mechanics that simply have the similarity of allowing you to mitigate more physical damage than normal. If the boots are designed to replace dodge, they're more than likely only going to work on physical attacks only, and not physical damage abilities such as parley which has been undodgeable for the longest of times. But we can't know for sure until they're officially out, and not simply out on a test server so there's no point in arguing about it. :|
If they wanted a new mechanic that's exactly like dodge maybe they wouldn't be removing dodge, the whole idea is to get away from dodge! Maybe it does but I don't see why this would work any differently from the other abilities that use the phrase basic attack, you just can't draw that conclusion from that piece of text.
The fact that you are even arguing with me means that I'm right, it's not clear from what we know how it works, not enough that ryuu can say "it works this way" as if he had a clue.
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On December 16 2011 13:06 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 12:55 barbsq wrote:On December 16 2011 12:46 BlackPaladin wrote:
Because panth's shield BLOCKS autos + physical damage dealing abilities.
Dodge DODGES autos.
Sup. Logic. no it doesnt. it only blocks things that proc on-hit effects, like parley and ezreal q. it may block ashe volley too, but i can't remember for sure kus i havn't played that matchup in nearly a year. edit: ah yeah, and it blocks the physical parts of next-hit modifiers, tho it doesn't block cc (i.e. garen's q, nasus q, etc) Yeah I should have added "that apply on hit effects." Like it won't block lee sin's q for instance. But the point is, that comparing the boots to panth's passive is retarded as hell. They're 2 completely different mechanics that simply have the similarity of allowing you to mitigate more physical damage than normal. If the boots are designed to replace dodge, they're more than likely only going to work on physical attacks only, and not physical damage abilities such as parley which has been undodgeable for the longest of times. But we can't know for sure until they're officially out, and not simply out on a test server so there's no point in arguing about it. :|
oh, i didnt even interpret ur post like that until u pointed it out, lol
i hear the whoosh as it passed over my head....
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On December 16 2011 13:17 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 13:06 BlackPaladin wrote:On December 16 2011 12:55 barbsq wrote:On December 16 2011 12:46 BlackPaladin wrote:
Because panth's shield BLOCKS autos + physical damage dealing abilities.
Dodge DODGES autos.
Sup. Logic. no it doesnt. it only blocks things that proc on-hit effects, like parley and ezreal q. it may block ashe volley too, but i can't remember for sure kus i havn't played that matchup in nearly a year. edit: ah yeah, and it blocks the physical parts of next-hit modifiers, tho it doesn't block cc (i.e. garen's q, nasus q, etc) Yeah I should have added "that apply on hit effects." Like it won't block lee sin's q for instance. But the point is, that comparing the boots to panth's passive is retarded as hell. They're 2 completely different mechanics that simply have the similarity of allowing you to mitigate more physical damage than normal. If the boots are designed to replace dodge, they're more than likely only going to work on physical attacks only, and not physical damage abilities such as parley which has been undodgeable for the longest of times. But we can't know for sure until they're officially out, and not simply out on a test server so there's no point in arguing about it. :| If they wanted a new mechanic that's exactly like dodge maybe they wouldn't be removing dodge, the whole idea is to get away from dodge! Maybe it does but I don't see why this would work any differently from the other abilities that use the phrase basic attack, you just can't draw that conclusion from that piece of text. The fact that you are even arguing with me means that I'm right, it's not clear from what we know how it works, not enough that ryuu can say "it works this way" as if he had a clue.
No, they are getting rid of dodge because they want to get rid of stuff that uses a RNG. They don't really like the randomness of it. Come on Usnip, they've said a million times already they don't using the RNG for a lot of stats, and have been slowly weeding that out of their game.
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Wait, they don't like the Randomness of something that is DESIGNED TO BE RANDOM. Then why have the system in the game?!
I don't understand this concept of random = bad. It's probability. It's there so that the game isn't just Herp Derp I attack U 5 times and you Died. With it in, I have a chance to negate 1 of those 5 hits before I died.
Without it, it will turn into ranged carries just innately being stronger than they need to be. Yes armor exsists, but unless everyone starts with more of it than they currently have this is going to suck.
Removing dodge is like saying, "Nerf tails! On this 2 side coin so that I can get Heads more."
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On December 16 2011 14:23 Cixah wrote:
Wait, they don't like the Randomness of something that is DESIGNED TO BE RANDOM. Then why have the system in the game?!
I don't understand this concept of random = bad. It's probability. It's there so that the game isn't just Herp Derp I attack U 5 times and you Died. With it in, I have a chance to negate 1 of those 5 hits before I died.
Without it, it will turn into ranged carries just innately being stronger than they need to be. Yes armor exsists, but unless everyone starts with more of it than they currently have this is going to suck.
Removing dodge is like saying, "Nerf tails! On this 2 side coin so that I can get Heads more."
That is nothing what it is like at all; please never use that analogy again.
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On December 16 2011 14:25 dnastyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 14:23 Cixah wrote:
Wait, they don't like the Randomness of something that is DESIGNED TO BE RANDOM. Then why have the system in the game?!
I don't understand this concept of random = bad. It's probability. It's there so that the game isn't just Herp Derp I attack U 5 times and you Died. With it in, I have a chance to negate 1 of those 5 hits before I died.
Without it, it will turn into ranged carries just innately being stronger than they need to be. Yes armor exsists, but unless everyone starts with more of it than they currently have this is going to suck.
Removing dodge is like saying, "Nerf tails! On this 2 side coin so that I can get Heads more." That is nothing what it is like at all; please never use that analogy again.
Do what now? Explain to me how it isn't? Just saying no and then giving no expination at all sure does help the conversation. Dodge sucks yes, but so does crit. That's random. Why isn't it also being removed if dodge is degenerate to the game.
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On December 16 2011 14:23 Cixah wrote:
Wait, they don't like the Randomness of something that is DESIGNED TO BE RANDOM. Then why have the system in the game?!
I don't understand this concept of random = bad. It's probability. It's there so that the game isn't just Herp Derp I attack U 5 times and you Died. With it in, I have a chance to negate 1 of those 5 hits before I died.
Without it, it will turn into ranged carries just innately being stronger than they need to be. Yes armor exsists, but unless everyone starts with more of it than they currently have this is going to suck.
Removing dodge is like saying, "Nerf tails! On this 2 side coin so that I can get Heads more."
wat, i end nearly 90% of my games with 0% dodge. this isnt going to make huge waves except for the champs with built in dodge.
edit: also, dodge exists as a sort of ancient relic heralding back from the dota days. the riot devs dont think it needs to be implemented anymore. Also, i dont really get how this would make it become a game where every1 dies in 5 hits if they remove dodge.
and i agree with dna, i really dont get your analogy
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Goose is getting pretty good. It'd be sad if they can't go to Kiev, they earned their spot there.
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United States37500 Posts
Goose very stronk. Almost A tier imoimo
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On December 16 2011 14:31 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 14:25 dnastyx wrote:On December 16 2011 14:23 Cixah wrote:
Wait, they don't like the Randomness of something that is DESIGNED TO BE RANDOM. Then why have the system in the game?!
I don't understand this concept of random = bad. It's probability. It's there so that the game isn't just Herp Derp I attack U 5 times and you Died. With it in, I have a chance to negate 1 of those 5 hits before I died.
Without it, it will turn into ranged carries just innately being stronger than they need to be. Yes armor exsists, but unless everyone starts with more of it than they currently have this is going to suck.
Removing dodge is like saying, "Nerf tails! On this 2 side coin so that I can get Heads more." That is nothing what it is like at all; please never use that analogy again. Do what now? Explain to me how it isn't? Just saying no and then giving no expination at all sure does help the conversation. Dodge sucks yes, but so does crit. That's random. Why isn't it also being removed if dodge is degenerate to the game.
Let me tell you a story. I was playing TF at level 1 against a Twitch mid. I crit him twice in a row...and then didn't kill him because he dodged my next 3 autoattacks in a row.
The issue isn't just because it's random. How do you effectively itemize against Dodge? You can't. SotD is an ineffective and incredibly niche way of dealing with it. How do you meaningfully interact with the 4% crit chance from masteries? You can't. The reason why this stuff is being removed is because it's bad game design. If your opponent makes choices, you should have effective ways of dealing with them. The answer isn't to introduce more things to solve a problematic mechanic. It's to axe the bad mechanic.
Crit is important late game, for example, because it allows ranged carries to increase their damage without inflating AD numbers that would make AD ratio abilities overpowered. How are you going to play differently in lane if there's a 4% chance that your opponent will crit you? It's pretty much impossible to do so. If you gank someone who has dodge boots...are you going to change the way you gank by not autoattacking at a specific moment in time so you'll get the hit and red buff will re-apply? No. You can't meaningfully interact with dodge, and the general purpose is to reduce autoattack damage.
I am, once again, very glad that none of you guys are game designers.
On December 16 2011 14:33 barbsq wrote:
edit: also, dodge exists as a sort of ancient relic heralding back from the dota days. the riot devs dont think it needs to be implemented anymore. Also, i dont really get how this would make it become a game where every1 dies in 5 hits if they remove dodge.
and i agree with dna, i really dont get your analogy
Evasion was a generally pointless and weak mechanic. The characters who had it passively were basically only good for pubstomping, and otherwise it was placed on spells so you could actually interact with it, like an AoE smoke cloud. "I know my damage output is going to be lowered by about 30% in this area of the fight, so I'll avoid it." If your opponents stayed in that area, they risked getting nuked. When you bought it on an item, it was enough of a midgame item to make a significant dent in your income, so it was a choice of delaying items that could be better suited to helping you win a game. In laning, evasion was a 30% miss chance if you attacked uphill, so you could choose not to position yourself badly and get put into a situation where you would lose a fight because of it.
My point is, there were (mostly) meaningful choices for evasion when it mattered.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 16 2011 14:33 barbsq wrote:
edit: also, dodge exists as a sort of ancient relic heralding back from the dota days. the riot devs dont think it needs to be implemented anymore. Also, i dont really get how this would make it become a game where every1 dies in 5 hits if they remove dodge.
Dodge, crit, and lifesteal all suffer from the same issue--they were inherited from DotA, but in DotA they were only available as limited lategame stats on certain items, while LoL made them overly accessible early-game due to cheap itemization, runes, and masteries. In all cases, early game dodge, crit, and lifesteal create way more issues than having them only accessible as lategame stats.
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EPT
