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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler + If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried. - Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On December 22 2011 23:32 napo wrote: Do you guys have a chat room for EU west? Really want to play some ingame matches to have fun 'cause I am on a losing streak and don't want that to continue.  LiquidParty in client. | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On December 22 2011 23:08 Prinate wrote: Edit: Lol, nm, Hynda don't bother reading my post. After reading your post above, you're so clearly delusional about your perspective of yourself, Riot, and the summoner code in game that it's pointless. Original post: Hynda, you're projecting so much shit on the tribunal, it's actually funny. There are tons of red posts, the reddit AMA, etc that actually explain details in the tribunal. If you actually believe what you're saying, go join the long line of guys who make 'falsely banned" posts on the official forums and get a response that says "nope, lol, you definitely banned." pendragon even started a thread ASKING for people like you to show up so he can personally review your case. I'm just a lurker here, the only posters I actually follow are the vets here. But when the jungle changes happened, you did nothing but whine and rage on here for like 10 days to the point that I sadly learned to recognize the posts. No posts about being open minded, nothing about trying to find positives in the new jungle, just QQ and rage. From your forum posting, I can 100% seeing you as the type of person for getting banned/reported in game for negative attitude, etc. I wasn't talking about myself I did not get 40 reports it was just a number taken out of the blue to show that tribunal will punish people and the representative will just go "lol clear ban" bam ban. Why? Cause I fucking lived it. I worked for a company lets call them Snowstorm, I've seen all this shit up front. People don't report because people are breaking the rules, but because they build up personal vendettas (excluding ofcourse reports of bots/leavers ect). You have presented a single argument yet, Yes I hated the new jungle. So did every single top tier jungler saying that it was untested, broken as shit and left only a very very few viable junglers. I got pissed cause you should never implement something that broken into a game. There was a reason it got hotfixed so fast. I've been here since the original thread, when there was no sub forum I am a veteran. Sometimes I whine, sometimes I moan sometimes I write constructive long posts, it's almost like I'm a human being. What part of this has to be about being opened minded? want me to present fact to back my shit up? "Enjoy Yourself, but not at Anyone Else’s Expense" is a subject stand point meaning that whatever you do in game you could be breaking this rule regardless of what you do. It's a horribly way of writing the rules. You are never told what you got banned for, you only get a note that you broke a rule that is so incredibly vague and subjective that it's impossible to figure out what you actually did wrong. Riot will never ever tell you what you did to get banned. Isn't that horribly counter productive? What good does it do if you ban someone for 1 week not telling him why? Any serious company (when it comes to customer support and especially the ban organ, that does not mean riot doesn't take other things seriously) would provide a reason, not a specifc time date and who reported you but a reason. "Flaming" the fact that "Negative attitude" is a reportable offence is laughable. How fucking vague can you get. "Riot does not repeal any punishment handed out" - Paraphrased. That alone should show you what a joke the rules are. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1626725 is the perfect example, he is so sure that there isn't a single wrong ban out there that he issues a challenge to find one. Having 0% wrong ban rate doesn't mean your system works, it means your rules are broken otherwise misstakes would happen. If any company I've worked for found out that they had 0% error rate, they would fucking panic. 94% of all cases in the tribunal goes to punishment, that is fucking stupid. Fix your rules. Can you honestly tell me nobody has ever in a single game told you or anyone else in the game "report X for Y" even though you know it's not warranted in any way shape or form? And to clarify, acording the rules I've never once been wrongly banned. I've never once contested a ban and I never will. A ban is ban, but I am sure as hell allowed to tell them that's horse shit. That the rules they are enforcing is complete and utter horseshit. after my last ban that was very very very well deserved, cause I was acting like a complete asshat at the time in game. I got back and I got real bitter and decided to go for an experiment. I would follow rule number 2 to a fucking tee. Do you know the league of legends rule by heart? Probably not so let me explain rule number 2 says the following: "Drive Constructive Feedback" and that is what I did. I drove the constructive feedback like a mad man. Didn't swear, didn't curse and I didn't call people retarded. What I did was call people out and gave them tips as suggested by rule number 2. examples "You shouldn't stand under the tower Soraka, there is 4 of them they will dive you and you'll die for no reason" An ally has been killed "Please follow my instructions next time and you'll live" "STFU Cunt" "Ashe you can't go bot when Baron is up, cause they will just do it and there is nothing we can do to stop it" "But I need farm!" "Don't go bot" "Now they have baron" "Fuck you noob" "GP you should teleport in and help us cause we are at bad spot at baron and we could at least need your ult" "fucking noob team" "You could have prevented that by teleporting in" "Just shut up and play" Is it passive aggresive, hell you. But it's constructive, had those directives been followed the situations would have been avoided. But people love to unite themselves in hatred, cause they can't stand the thought of actual being the reason for a loss. So they act out in the only way they can. Tantrums. Swear and bitch and ofcourse "REPORT REPORT REPORT". And yea it saddens me that Riot fell for that and banned me since technicly I was just doing what the code told me, while the people going against me broke it. But it didn't surprise me in the slightest. Because nobody really wants to get told constructive things. People just want everyone else to shut up and play and stand to be called noobs once in a while. I get banned sometimes because I lose cool and I act like an asshat, it happens. Sometimes it's years apart. My 2 EU accounts have infact never been banned neither of them. And my US account went many many months in a row without a single infringment. Just cause you don't have any arguments don't call me fucking deluded. Set up arguments I will argue against them or agree with some of them. But just cause I aknowledge the fact that I hate some decisions that Riot makes doesn't mean I baselessly fucking bash them. I can argue my point just fine without calling other people names. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Riot support doesn't just go "Herpity derpity, hey look, derpette, this guy has 40 reports, he must be superrrr annoyingggg. 40 day ban, amiright? They actually look at the cases themselves. -_- That's how all customer support for games are. That's their JOB. They get paid to make sure they do it right. But having 40 reports of the guy being an asshole and millions of people agreeing is a lot better PROOF than a single report where nobody agrees he's been one (which normally is just some drunk guy reporting someone cause he's drunk or some stupid type of report like that). Because when you ban someone you need real undeniable proof that someone has truly broken the rules and deserves punishment for attempting to ruin other players games. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On December 22 2011 23:50 Hynda wrote: Is it passive aggresive, hell you. But it's constructive, had those directives been followed the situations would have been avoided. But people love to unite themselves in hatred, cause they can't stand the thought of actual being the reason for a loss. So they act out in the only way they can. Tantrums. Swear and bitch and ofcourse "REPORT REPORT REPORT". If it makes you an unpleasant person to play with, then don't do that shit. I had a friend who played with me, and I'd say that sort of thing when he messed up because I got frustrated. He stopped playing with me. I learned my lesson. edit: oh wow just noticed I'm a reaver :O | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On December 22 2011 23:26 Prinate wrote: New topic: I find it funny/interesting how many people believe they are in Elo hell. So I've been tempted to make a poll for where people think they should be compared to their ranking. What is the accepted norm though? 50 ranking? 100? 200? I don't know how far apart I should set the brackets. I think (hope) TL players know better than to believe in Elo hell. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On December 22 2011 23:51 BlackPaladin wrote: Customer support doesn't actually trust the full word of the players..........lol. Riot support doesn't just go "Herpity derpity, hey look, derpette, this guy has 40 reports, he must be superrrr annoyingggg. 40 day ban, amiright? They actually look at the cases themselves. -_- That's how all customer support for games are. That's their JOB. They get paid to make sure they do it right. But having 40 reports of the guy being an asshole and millions of people agreeing is a lot better PROOF than a single report where nobody agrees he's been one (which normally is just some drunk guy reporting someone cause he's drunk or some stupid type of report like that). Because when you ban someone you need real undeniable proof that someone has truly broken the rules and deserves punishment for attempting to ruin other players games. And yet they have confident they have a 0% margin of error. Something that is unheard of in the real world. If you did why not actually tell the player this, why intentionally be vague and never actually tell the players how they can improve. Why have a tribunal in the first place if every single report gets looked at in detail. Why not have paid staff like every other game looking in detail at the ban, constructing a reason for the ban and then tell the player "oh you can contact our customer support if you disagree and we'll tell you in detail what you did wrong so you can improve and add to the experience instead of detract from it? "Certain in-Game activity on your account has been found to be in repeat violation of the Summoner’s Code by the Tribunal. " Is all you get. And then you look at the summoners code. Is it this super strict rulebook so i can look up what I did wrong? Nope. "Lead by Example" the way I figure it worked was the way I choose to interperate it. IE I would give out tips during the game to help the team win. But apparently that's bannable because people find that annoying. Or maybe I got banned for something else? I know I never swore or trolled during this period which was what I got banned for beforehand (Yes, I can lose my cool in a game, if I'm not on top of it, do not point this out I am well aware of it). So it could be umm feeding? I had games where I had really bad score but never intentionally and never with malice. But once ever 20 games or so it happens, I get a horrible game. Refusal to communicate? Sometimes I mute people that spew shit or memes fairly early maybe I got banned for not communicating with them? Who knows? I don't. Cause I sure ashell wasn't told. If you are confident in your own system, you don't let your player base issue pardons and you sure ashell don't put up the vaguest rules ever and then refuse to hear your banned players out. AND AGAIN I am not contesting a ban EVER. EVER. But the people you ban have the right know exactly what behaviour got them banned, and they are entitled to argue their case. That's good customer support. Lets add the most laughable thing in the entire summoners code to boot. Feast your eyes on this big boy. Could you be more vague? Nope. "And remember, while nobody likes being insulted, it pays to take a moment to consider the circumstances. Remember that this is a competitive game, and, more often than not, the other player is just venting their frustration. Try not to take it personally. Everyone has a breaking point and everyone rages sometimes. At some point you may find yourself in the other person’s shoes." The summoners code isn't a rulebook. It's just a bunch of ideals. ideals that different people will follow in different ways. Whereas one can become a monk with no possesions the other can become the worlds richest man following the exact same teachings. If you are going to make your community do your work for you and issue bans and warnings aswell as pardons. Set some rules. Proper rules, rules that can only have one interperation. You call someone a retard, ok that's a ban. And so on and so forth. Reporting someone for calling you idiot can be intereperated as a breaking of the summoners code meaning you should get banned aswell. That is how badly its written. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
I've just begun, and like half of the reports are on Tryndameres raging hardcore XD | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On December 23 2011 00:16 mr_tolkien wrote: Just wondering, do you see a lot of chars in tribunal ? I've just begun, and like half of the reports are on Tryndameres raging hardcore XD I always got nidalees back when I did it the first week or os. | ||
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Ian Ian Ian
913 Posts
"OMG WE LOST BECAUSE X WENT 0-Y, PLZ REPORT". People just blame someone for their loss and come up with a random reason to report them. I got a ban once after argueing with someone in postgame chat. I can't even remember what it was about, I think we lost and he was like omg its your fault, and i was like no, you noob, you picked an ap carry as 5th pick when we needed a support tank, leaving our team comp to be terrible. The guy then proceeds to say "lol gg enjoy your ban". And a few days later I got one. I'm assuming the guy knows some random that works for riot or something :s The ban was something laughable like 24 hours or some shit though | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
and you can't even see lobby or post game chats while reviewing tribunal cases, so at least in that case you can't put it on "tribunal ban hammer" | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
On December 22 2011 23:50 Hynda wrote: I worked for a company lets call them Snowstorm, I've seen all this shit up front. This made me chuckle. Also, Hynda. As you said you interpret the Summoner's Code differently than we presume tribunal members/Riot employees do. That's fair enough, but you got to remember who sets the rules. Obviously after multiple warnings/bans you just have to own up to the fact that your "interpretation" of what's working within the Summoner's Code is just not the same and you need to make the adjustment. I'm all for correcting people on their mistakes and tryharding if you feel like it but you just have to do it in a more gentle and loving fashion | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On December 23 2011 00:29 mordek wrote: This made me chuckle. Also, Hynda. As you said you interpret the Summoner's Code differently than we presume tribunal members/Riot employees do. That's fair enough, but you got to remember who sets the rules. Obviously after multiple warnings/bans you just have to own up to the fact that your "interpretation" of what's working within the Summoner's Code is just not the same and you need to make the adjustment. I'm all for correcting people on their mistakes and tryharding if you feel like it but you just have to do it in a more gentle and loving fashion That's my point with that, there are no rules. there are vague teachings that on one hand tells you that it's wrong to cuss someone out, but it's also wrong to report them aslong as that cussing was only venting their frustration of a loss. Add to that it's wrong to not help out other players making sure to win, unless the want you to do that, which nobody can no before they try. The summoners code is a mess and not in any way, shape or form a rulebook. It's a vague outlook of a philosophy with as many interperations as there are players. That is the true reason why you're not being told why you got banned. Cause there are no clear rules, you are at the mercu of other players and then 1 guy at riot and what that guy thinks. You could get a guy that think what you did was right and pardon you or you could get one that will ban you, because they are humans to and will interperate the code differently. But if I'm not told what to improve then what could I possibly improve? Should I guess? If I as a player look at the code and went "I did not break any of these rules acording to my way seeing them." How the fuck should I know what to improve? What part of this got me banned? I don't know! Gonna tell me? Fuck no, enjoy your slow walk towards the permaban. Just read a thread on the forums from a guy tghat got permabanned beging Riot to tell him what the fuck he did wrong cause he couldn't figure it out. He even saved ALL replays from his 200 latest games he played since his last ban saying "I've watched all these, and I can't find what I got perma banned for". Does that sound like good customer service to you? (and I know exactly what I need to do to not get banned, if you just shut up and never talk to anyone you will never ever get banned, but that's not the point the "I" in this contest is simply a stand in for a person) | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On December 23 2011 00:49 Hynda wrote: You could get a guy that think what you did was right and pardon you or you could get one that will ban you, because they are humans to and will interperate the code differently. Were you expecting a robot or something? And you post on TL, where mods can ban to their discretion and don't have to give you a detailed explanation. It's not like it's a unique situation. It's Riot's game, they can ban whomever they want. | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On December 23 2011 00:55 starfries wrote: Were you expecting a robot or something? And you post on TL, where mods can ban to their discretion and don't have to give you a detailed explanation. It's not like it's a unique situation. It's Riot's game, they can ban whomever they want. But there is a hell of different situation when you have outlined rules that you can refer back to. Riot doesn't use that. A rioter is allowed to ban you cause he had a bad day and felt like punishing someone. I've never once stated that they can't do whatever the fuck they want to do. What started this was that I called Riots tribunal and banning staff a joke. Which is something I still hold firm to. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
It is a vague philosophy because its impossible to write a rulebook that's comprehensive. They are general guidelines. If you honestly follow them to the best of your ability, no one is going to have any reason to report you. I'm not trying to say I never get angry at people or some jerk doesn't get under my skin from time to time, but you just have to let it go and be positive. There were always be outliers, people who shouldn't have been banned, but those cases get corrected in most instances. I am interested in the example you gave of the person who got banned and didn't know why but until I see those replays I'm not going to take his word "I can't find what I got perma banned for" with any weight. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On December 23 2011 00:58 Hynda wrote: But there is a hell of different situation when you have outlined rules that you can refer back to. Riot doesn't use that. A rioter is allowed to ban you cause he had a bad day and felt like punishing someone. I've never once stated that they can't do whatever the fuck they want to do. What started this was that I called Riots tribunal and banning staff a joke. Which is something I still hold firm to. What game does it better? You're always at the mercy of the banning staff. When I played Dragon Nest, they had a script that autobanned people for performing "bot-like" activities which could be running the same dungeon in the same way too many times or something. If you get banned (no warning at all or even a notification that you got banned), you only get unbanned by sending in a ticket which could take weeks, months or forever. THAT'S a joke. Riot asking you to be a pleasant person to play with is not a joke. | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On December 23 2011 01:00 mordek wrote: I think you'll find if you try to exemplify the Summoner's Code in a positive way you'll be a happier person It is a vague philosophy because its impossible to write a rulebook that's comprehensive. They are general guidelines. If you honestly follow them to the best of your ability, no one is going to have any reason to report you. I'm not trying to say I never get angry at people or some jerk doesn't get under my skin from time to time, but you just have to let it go and be positive. There were always be outliers, people who shouldn't have been banned, but those cases get corrected in most instances. I am interested in the example you gave of the person who got banned and didn't know why but until I see those replays I'm not going to take his word "I can't find what I got perma banned for" with any weight. So world of warcraft manages it Starcraft manages it CS manages it Dota League manages it Quake managed it Broodwar managed it but for League of Legends it's impossible to make proper non-vague outlines? What makes LoL unique. And no I'm not taking his word untill i see every single of those replays, and yes I will do that. Bad work habit, but I know how to spot what needs to be spotted and then I will make up my mind about it. HOWEVER there should never ever be a need for anyone to feel like that, they should be told exactly what they got banned for. | ||
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