EPT[Patch 1.0.0.130: Volibear] General Discussion - Page 29
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 30 2011 13:45 koreasilver wrote: I just don't fucking understand how these recent changes promote aggression over passivity, which is what their line has been all this time. The gold you get out of the jungle is just fucking absurdly petty now. How am I supposed to be aggressive when I struggle to get my core items. you gotta gank for da gold...wait...i remember riot saying smth about not needing to gank....oh well. they had good, consistent logic behind this. trust me | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On November 30 2011 13:19 Deltablazy wrote: Dude I have no idea how can you be behind the solo lanes as Udyr now. I played a game with Udyr where I only jungled and didn't gank at all. I was keeping up with the solo lane's cs (although the gold worth might have been lower) and was even able to steal enemy's wraiths upon respawn almost every time, the only times I didn't steal them was cuz the enemy jungler did them already. It may be because I opened boots 3 and my first back was at 1.8k gold. Then I started falling behind in cs because my mid started taking my wraiths upon respawn. CS in the jungle is really meaningless when the majority of that cs is worth 4-6 gold each instead of 16+. Hitting tab may make your numbers look the same but they really aren't even close. And I do open boots x3, That doesn't really matter though since my point still stands. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
How can anyone claim to be an expert on this game and be so fucking stupid. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 30 2011 13:25 Phrost wrote: + Show Spoiler + Yeah he can build pure hp and be an asset to your team, or you could be playing against kogmaw and vayne and he can be the biggest liability. He suffers from the same weaknesses as Mundo, %health based attacks and healing reduction just shit on his day. His initiation is good, don't get me wrong, but he's not nearly as good as Singed or even Garen. Volibear has no innate resistance to cc and a pretty unreliable gap closer in most situations. His Q only gives movespeed when he is actively trying to target and attack an enemy champion. The problem here is he can't use it to get better positioning. He can't be like udyr or garen and use this ability to move quickly through the jungle or in a bush to a better angle to move in from. Singed has a ranged slow with a HUGE radius and an ult that reduces crowd control length and increases his speed. Volibear has a fling on a shortish cooldown that is attached to a very situational sprint and has an aoe slow that does damage but cannot be cast at range. In the damage department, Singed also has the upper hand. His poison trail does consistent damage without needing to stay in range of the target constantly, it's fairly easy to setup, and with his usually faster move speed, easy to keep on a single target if you want. Volibear must be in melee range, and stay in melee range to continue to do damage. He must also attack atleast 3 times before reaching maximum damage output. Singed has the option of leisurely running around and avoiding any bad fights while putting on pressure. Not to mention the fact that singed's poison trail is like light years better for farming than everything volibear has except lightning claws. Survival: Singed's passive gives him health all of the time, it's a flat rate based around another stat he rather likes and gives him better itemization choices. You cannot punish this passive with ignite or healing reduction effects. Volibear's passive is probably stronger in some situations, but in some not uncommon scenerios it is outright terrible. It has a 2 minute cooldown so it can't be used in lane for sustain and just like mundo's ult, is highly susceptible to ignites and healing reduction making it almost useless. Singed's ult passively gives him more armor and mr, volibear's W wants him to build more health making him easier to counter with %health based damage items. why you feel volibear is strong: If you can connect with everything in melee range then the syngery of all of his skills is amazing. He has very good follow ups to his abilities and they all work in tandem to make him a formidable tank. He also has a high rate of niche cases that seem extremely powerful. The problem is he isn't very consistent with those cases and can easily be exploited even in a best case scenario. However, his short comings are overlooked as people don't know how to deal with him and once they realize a slow or stun makes him useless i'm sure you wont be singing that hes too strong. Everything has counters. Naturally there's some champions who are going to absolutely shit on him. I don't recall saying he's overpowered either, although my posts may have come off that way. You're also ignoring the fact that his only use isn't initiation although you can easily punish somebody for being out of position. As you're a pure tanky (or close to it, I'd definitely get a Wit's End on this bear) sort you should be able to peel for absolutely anyone, slow them down, and AoE their team while you're bashing their face in. Oh your carry took away 66% of their health? No problem EXECUTE. He doesn't have the stuns of Udyr, but between flip and slow he can probably keep your carry just as safe. I'm not sure how'd you compare their AoE damage output, but I can see them playing very similarly if that's what you're looking for. Good candidate to give your jungler farm after you have a few items kinda like Zilean I think as well. Volibear isn't on lee sin broken utility level at least. | ||
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On November 30 2011 13:50 Two_DoWn wrote: Every post phreak has made today makes me want to get on a plane to California and slap him. How can anyone claim to be an expert on this game and be so fucking stupid. Because you'd really have to be an idiot to think you were an expert on this game. Unless this jungle change was thought of at least 1 year ago and they play tested it until today, then maybe you are an expert. But it clearly wasn't, so he's just doing it for the sake of not looking bad. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On November 30 2011 13:46 Ryuu314 wrote: you gotta gank for da gold...wait...i remember riot saying smth about not needing to gank....oh well. they had good, consistent logic behind this. trust me Having to throw myself into ganks because I NEED to because I can't keep up with gold otherwise is retarded as shit. It basically gives junglers less real options. Fucking makes no sense when they say "oh, people just cleared jungle and then ganked cause they had nothing to do lol" is fucking insane because no good jungler went afk and never gank just because creeps were up. It's like lvl 2 ganks don't exist to these people. What the fuck is going on? | ||
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OhNeverMind
United States90 Posts
The only additional choice this jungle seems to add is that running 2 top may be viable, but only because the jungle is so irrelevant. If they do increase jungle rewards while keeping the same respawn rates I think that we will see fast junglers like Udyr and Skarner completely outscale other junglers. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 30 2011 13:55 koreasilver wrote: Having to throw myself into ganks because I NEED to because I can't keep up with gold otherwise is retarded as shit. It basically gives junglers less real options. Fucking makes no sense when they say "oh, people just cleared jungle and then ganked cause they had nothing to do lol" is fucking insane because no good jungler went afk and never gank just because creeps were up. It's like lvl 2 ganks don't exist to these people. What the fuck is going on? Since when did your jungler get as much gold as a lane in the first place? Also, anybody comparing the new and old jungles are just wasting time. Unless the changes are reverted you might as well forget the glory days of Fizz and before patches jungle because you're never going to see them again. Ganking lanes and not getting a kill doesn't set you that far back as far as I could tell from my quick test. I was playing Phoenix Udyr though as that's the only jungler I ever play ^_^ Just because it's not "free" anymore doesn't make it bad. The alternative is that lane being in a constant state of failure so you're really just accepting the lesser of two evils. Either pick better heroes or play with better people so you don't lose any of your lanes. You get less gold early on it seems, but since the jungle now scales you should be getting more gold later on. Sadly the big creeps are the only ones that scale though it seems  | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On November 30 2011 14:07 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Since when did your jungler get as much gold as a lane in the first place? Also, anybody comparing the new and old jungles are just wasting time. Unless the changes are reverted you might as well forget the glory days of Fizz and before patches jungle because you're never going to see them again. Ganking lanes and not getting a kill doesn't set you that far back as far as I could tell from my quick test. I was playing Phoenix Udyr though as that's the only jungler I ever play ^_^ Just because it's not "free" anymore doesn't make it bad. The alternative is that lane being in a constant state of failure so you're really just accepting the lesser of two evils. Either pick better heroes or play with better people so you don't lose any of your lanes. You get less gold early on it seems, but since the jungle now scales you should be getting more gold later on. Sadly the big creeps are the only ones that scale though it seems It doesn't matter that the jungler doesn't get as much gold as a solo lane. The problem now is that a duo lane that splits farm can have equal or more gold than the jungler. | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
Here is the situation. One player never connects. 20 minutes in and it is clear we have no chance to win. The other team sucks, though, and isn't finishing the game quickly. there is easily another 20 minutes til they finish us off. I personally want to move on to another game. However, another teammate declares that this is his last game of the night, and he wants to play it all the way out. My team refuses the surrender. I decide to leave the game, and my teammates let me know I am reported. My question is, is it wrong to leave in that situation? In my mind, I only find the game fun if there is a chance of winning, so for me it makes sense to leave. My teammates say they still find it fun even when the eventual outcome is decided (not conjecture that is what they said). So by leaving, I don't waste my time on an unfun (for me) game and my teammates can still enjoy their game, since they don't mind playing an unwinnable game. So their fun isn't lessened and I don't have to waste 20 minutes on something not worth my time. Thoughts? I am not worked up about the issue, just curious what people think. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On November 30 2011 13:42 javy925 wrote: no, his kit is taken straight off ursa from dota plus singed fling. Even volibear's E is exactly the same as ursa's E (same hotkey LOL), except volibear can fear the creep, too. It's similar but ursa was a duelist not a tank. Volibear's W is more like rexxar than ursa. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 30 2011 14:20 petered wrote: So a question for the TL LoL crowd. Here is the situation. One player never connects. 20 minutes in and it is clear we have no chance to win. The other team sucks, though, and isn't finishing the game quickly. there is easily another 20 minutes til they finish us off. I personally want to move on to another game. However, another teammate declares that this is his last game of the night, and he wants to play it all the way out. My team refuses the surrender. I decide to leave the game, and my teammates let me know I am reported. My question is, is it wrong to leave in that situation? In my mind, I only find the game fun if there is a chance of winning, so for me it makes sense to leave. My teammates say they still find it fun even when the eventual outcome is decided (not conjecture that is what they said). So by leaving, I don't waste my time on an unfun (for me) game and my teammates can still enjoy their game, since they don't mind playing an unwinnable game. So their fun isn't lessened and I don't have to waste 20 minutes on something not worth my time. Thoughts? I am not worked up about the issue, just curious what people think. If it's a normal game and you aren't doing it super often you won't get banned. If that's what you're asking. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
On November 30 2011 14:20 petered wrote: So a question for the TL LoL crowd. Here is the situation. One player never connects. 20 minutes in and it is clear we have no chance to win. The other team sucks, though, and isn't finishing the game quickly. there is easily another 20 minutes til they finish us off. I personally want to move on to another game. However, another teammate declares that this is his last game of the night, and he wants to play it all the way out. My team refuses the surrender. I decide to leave the game, and my teammates let me know I am reported. My question is, is it wrong to leave in that situation? In my mind, I only find the game fun if there is a chance of winning, so for me it makes sense to leave. My teammates say they still find it fun even when the eventual outcome is decided (not conjecture that is what they said). So by leaving, I don't waste my time on an unfun (for me) game and my teammates can still enjoy their game, since they don't mind playing an unwinnable game. So their fun isn't lessened and I don't have to waste 20 minutes on something not worth my time. Thoughts? I am not worked up about the issue, just curious what people think. Since at least 2 people still want to play on, I think you are obligated to stay in the game and try your best until the very end. Remember, the game is not over until your Nexus is destroyed. Even though you are not getting much from it, it's a sacrifice that you should make for others. Conversely, imagine what would happen if people were allowed to leave when they thought the chances of winning were too low to waste time on. How many games do you think would make it past 15 minutes? Would this be funner than having drawn out games? | ||
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DarkwindHK
Hong Kong343 Posts
On November 30 2011 14:20 petered wrote: So a question for the TL LoL crowd. Here is the situation. One player never connects. 20 minutes in and it is clear we have no chance to win. The other team sucks, though, and isn't finishing the game quickly. there is easily another 20 minutes til they finish us off. I personally want to move on to another game. However, another teammate declares that this is his last game of the night, and he wants to play it all the way out. My team refuses the surrender. I decide to leave the game, and my teammates let me know I am reported. My question is, is it wrong to leave in that situation? In my mind, I only find the game fun if there is a chance of winning, so for me it makes sense to leave. My teammates say they still find it fun even when the eventual outcome is decided (not conjecture that is what they said). So by leaving, I don't waste my time on an unfun (for me) game and my teammates can still enjoy their game, since they don't mind playing an unwinnable game. So their fun isn't lessened and I don't have to waste 20 minutes on something not worth my time. Thoughts? I am not worked up about the issue, just curious what people think. This is not even a question if you think team games requires sportsmanship. There are plenty of football match where one team has so chance of winning, but they still play the full 90 minutes + times loss. Have you ever seen a world cup match that stop at half time because one team is losing too much? I think respect is needed for all games that involve more than one person. | ||
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DarkwindHK
Hong Kong343 Posts
On November 30 2011 14:40 Chairman Ray wrote: Since at least 2 people still want to play on, I think you are obligated to stay in the game and try your best until the very end. Remember, the game is not over until your Nexus is destroyed. Even though you are not getting much from it, it's a sacrifice that you should make for others. Conversely, imagine what would happen if people were allowed to leave when they thought the chances of winning were too low to waste time on. How many games do you think would make it past 15 minutes? Would this be funner than having drawn out games? Reminds me of DOTA on bnet xd "Dota -AP -EM noobs only ~~~~" Join --> "omg you sxxk!" --> x player left the game (5 minutes into the game) | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
On November 30 2011 14:20 petered wrote: So a question for the TL LoL crowd. Here is the situation. One player never connects. 20 minutes in and it is clear we have no chance to win. The other team sucks, though, and isn't finishing the game quickly. there is easily another 20 minutes til they finish us off. I personally want to move on to another game. However, another teammate declares that this is his last game of the night, and he wants to play it all the way out. My team refuses the surrender. I decide to leave the game, and my teammates let me know I am reported. My question is, is it wrong to leave in that situation? In my mind, I only find the game fun if there is a chance of winning, so for me it makes sense to leave. My teammates say they still find it fun even when the eventual outcome is decided (not conjecture that is what they said). So by leaving, I don't waste my time on an unfun (for me) game and my teammates can still enjoy their game, since they don't mind playing an unwinnable game. So their fun isn't lessened and I don't have to waste 20 minutes on something not worth my time. Thoughts? I am not worked up about the issue, just curious what people think. Just open up a movie on the side or something and click around until games over lol | ||
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