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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On December 12 2011 07:49 SnK-Arcbound wrote: A skill shot is not a frontal aoe cone. exactly, skill shots are things that are narrow and have travel time. headdesk every time someone tells me that annie tibbers or cassiopeia ult is a skill shot. | ||
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rob.au
1087 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:50 rob.au wrote: How is Xin's kit inherently broken? the only way for him to be abusive is stacking aspd/cdr for his Q but that also makes him super squishy. I mean riven/fizz etc...are stronger than xin was pre-nerf and xin at least is limited by mana in lane and has no escape. I don't think he means broken as in abusive--but broken as in it's not really ever going to be fully functional. He's an anti-carry that has no proper means of disengaging from a fight, so he's basically 100% all-in on being able to go in and kill someone in one go. Either he can do it way more reliably than anyone else (which creates "unfun" gameplay when Xin can jump in and always gib someone), or he can't and is just worse than similar anti-carry options because whenever his anti-carry target doesn't die straight away, he's dead because he can't escape. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:15 tobi9999 wrote: exactly, skill shots are things that are narrow and have travel time. headdesk every time someone tells me that annie tibbers or cassiopeia ult is a skill shot. I have seen enough people miss annies tibbers in competitive play to call it a skill shot. It's not point and click like her Q, but it's not as hard to land as most skill shots so it's not a "true skill shot" I guess. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b282/SnK-Arcbound/NewBitmapImage-4.jpg) | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:15 tobi9999 wrote: exactly, skill shots are things that are narrow and have travel time. headdesk every time someone tells me that annie tibbers or cassiopeia ult is a skill shot. Her cone-aoe does have travel time though, and it's is possible to flash sideways out of it. It's still a skillshot. And 3 button presses where if you're facing the wrong way you whiff and do nothing requires a lot more skill (particularly on a target who's trying to avoid you) than "charge and click" - especially if you're weaving autos in between them like you should be. | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:50 rob.au wrote: How is Xin's kit inherently broken? the only way for him to be abusive is stacking aspd/cdr for his Q but that also makes him super squishy. I mean riven/fizz etc...are stronger than xin was pre-nerfs (the pointless ones) and xin at least is limited by mana in lane and has no escape. His kit has extreme synergy with itself, and it's extremely straight-forward to execute and therefore difficult to mess up. This results in a champion that is much easier to play "perfectly" than most others and so can reach his full potential in the hands of a much weaker player than most other champions meaning he appears to be much stronger at lower levels of play than he really is (because it's much harder to play against him than it is to play as him). Notably, this compounds with the simple fact that his main strength, sticking to and killing someone 1v1, is exacerbated in low-level play because there is no (or very little) coordination at that level which means there is almost always someone out of position which the xin zhao player can capitalize on. | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On December 12 2011 09:10 sylverfyre wrote: Her cone-aoe does have travel time though, and it's is possible to flash sideways out of it. It's still a skillshot. And 3 button presses where if you're facing the wrong way you whiff and do nothing requires a lot more skill (particularly on a target who's trying to avoid you) than "charge and click" Well, first off the travel time is just the stupid animation that cassiopeia does, which isn't too long at all, compared to other travel times like gragas barrel or morg bind. 2nd, cassiopeia ult shouldn't even be used unless defensively or if target is being dumb and facechecking the brush you're in. Or flash ulting a team when they are not aware of you. You wouldn't call Cho's W or Morde's E a skillshot, so idk why Cass ult would be. So, in all of those cases it's pretty much impossible to get around. Same for tibbers. If you just hover your mouse over someone and click r there is no way in hell you are missing, especially if they don't know you're there. Morgana bind? they can easily dodge it even if they had no idea you were there. More importantly though, I've learned that it's completely trivial to distinguish what's a skill shot and what isn't, because some people have more difficulty than others hovering their mouse over someone and hitting R. How many times have you actually completely MISSED cassiopeia ult or annie ult? not talking about not stunning them or whatever. I've played over 50 games on each of them, and I've probably only missed one or two. Which means I have like a 99% hit rate with them. Morg/Ez/Nid??? Probably have only hit around 70% of them when they actually matter. That's a huge gap. On another note, Xin Zhao isn't BAD at all, the argument is that he can only build attack speed to be abusive of his skills, and if he does that he isn't tanky... ever heard of wits end? o_O You should try building it on him, along with frozen mallet, he turns into a god at killing people who aren't in position/overextended. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 12 2011 09:26 tobi9999 wrote: Well, first off the travel time is just the stupid animation that cassiopeia does, which isn't too long at all, compared to other travel times like gragas barrel or morg bind. 2nd, cassiopeia ult shouldn't even be used unless defensively or if target is being dumb and facechecking the brush you're in. Or flash ulting a team when they are not aware of you. You wouldn't call Cho's W or Morde's E a skillshot, so idk why Cass ult would be. So, in all of those cases it's pretty much impossible to get around. Same for tibbers. If you just hover your mouse over someone and click r there is no way in hell you are missing, especially if they don't know you're there. Morgana bind? they can easily dodge it even if they had no idea you were there. More importantly though, I've learned that it's completely trivial to distinguish what's a skill shot and what isn't, because some people have more difficulty than others hovering their mouse over someone and hitting R. How many times have you actually completely MISSED cassiopeia ult or annie ult? not talking about not stunning them or whatever. I've played over 50 games on each of them, and I've probably only missed one or two. Which means I have like a 99% hit rate with them. Morg/Ez/Nid??? Probably have only hit around 70% of them when they actually matter. That's a huge gap. On another note, Xin Zhao isn't BAD at all, the argument is that he can only build attack speed to be abusive of his skills, and if he does that he isn't tanky... ever heard of wits end? o_O You should try building it on him, along with frozen mallet, he turns into a god at killing people who aren't in position/overextended. I was talking about Riven ult, which actually has a projectile that travels out from her sword when you use Wind Slash. Cassi has the flat spell-cast animation time, and then the entire cone is instantly affected - there's no way to react to that, but it's possible that the enemy already performed an action that got them out of it. Otherwise you'd see pro players turning their backs in response to cassi ult a lot more often. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
a skill shot with the biggest cone in the game | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On December 12 2011 06:19 Skithiryx wrote: Yes, let's give him Akali ulti but better, what a great idea. I think he's fine as is, he's just another hero that's a very niche pick. That's not even comparable... | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On December 12 2011 09:33 sylverfyre wrote: I was talking about Riven ult, which actually has a projectile that travels out from her sword when you use Wind Slash. Cassi has the flat spell-cast animation time, and then the entire cone is instantly affected - there's no way to react to that, but it's possible that the enemy already performed an action that got them out of it. Otherwise you'd see pro players turning their backs in response to cassi ult a lot more often. Well, of course it's possible to whiff Riven ults, but honestly it should be really easy to hit. All of my missed Riven ults are just me overestimating the range though, the cone is big enough so there's a really low chance that they can just dodge it by going to the side. The travel time is too fast for dodges, and there is no cast time. I guess it groups in with skillshots, but I would say that hitting it doesn't take that much skill lol. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
3 losses in a row. Can't stand people that just fucking suck. fuuu thought this was QQ thread. Sorry. Anyway when does next patch come out? Anyone know? | ||
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rob.au
1087 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
On December 12 2011 10:21 Cloud9157 wrote: I fucking hate this game. 3 losses in a row. Can't stand people that just fucking suck. I had 3 losses in a row before as well. Probably didn't help that I was jungle Zilean. | ||
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courtpanda
866 Posts
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Wetty
Australia419 Posts
On December 12 2011 10:22 rob.au wrote: Is Xin really easier to play than trynd/sion/renekton/irelia/gp/riven/garen/fizz? I'd argue hes on the same level assuming hes soloing. If you're thinking of him as a jungler then sure I can see why you would think his kit is broken but I don't see what's wrong with having solo xin viable when these other heroes are. Yes, and those that you have listed all have various play levels too, so arguing hes on the same level as them is kinda silly. Id say that rene/fizz are definitely a step above the others on that list, and probably irelia too. Xin is probably closest to gp or garen in that list. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On December 12 2011 10:22 rob.au wrote: Is Xin really easier to play than trynd/sion/renekton/irelia/gp/riven/garen/fizz? I'd argue hes on the same level assuming hes soloing. If you're thinking of him as a jungler then sure I can see why you would think his kit is broken but I don't see what's wrong with having solo xin viable when these other heroes are. Renekton requires a decent rhythm, Xin you just latch onto someone and don't let go. Sion is pretty easy if AP... I'd the rest aside from maybe Garen require way more mechanical skill. It isn't even close. The decision making required on Xin is close to nonexistent... sadly I saw a lot of bad Xin's before his nerf. People have kind of stopped playing him since then. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On December 12 2011 10:44 courtpanda wrote: can we just define "skillshot" as something that can hit a target you can't see? riven's ult is a skillshot that takes no skill, but its still, nonetheless, a skillshot. Karthus ult meanwhile is a skillshot that takes loads of skill. | ||
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