EPT[Patch 1.0.0.125: Riven] General Discussion - Page 134
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
So far it works pretty well. What's worse is generally speaking you want to pass the kill gold to the laner so he can keep an advantage in lane and win that lane all the harder. This puts the ganking jungler even farther behind since not only is he wasting time by attempting the gank he loses out on a relatively significant amount of farm as well. We don't have minions which pile up if we don't kill them. If we don't kill them they stop spawning. | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On September 26 2011 23:34 zulu_nation8 wrote: so you think you won't win but you can possibly not lose a lane vs jiji? No he didn't say that. He said he wouldn't die. He admitted to not having near the same cs as him and losing in terms of farm is losing a lane. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Oh and ya, I would lose the lane sure. But I wouldnt get dominated (ie be down 30 cs AND give up 4 kills). Realistically I would just be down probably 30 cs and a half a level to a level behind. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 26 2011 23:38 Two_DoWn wrote: I KNOW I wouldnt beat jiji in lane. I am just as sure that I could minimize the amount of damage I would take in lane. I mean, it isnt like jiji ends every solo q game having gone 6-0 in lane, even with the recent reset in elo making him play vs 1500 elo players occasionally. I mean, at the very least opening boots +5 with movespeed quints on annie lets you stay in range of exp and last hit a little bit without exposing yourself to too much damage. Oh and ya, I would lose the lane sure. But I wouldnt get dominated (ie be down 30 cs AND give up 4 kills). Realistically I would just be down probably 30 cs and a half a level to a level behind. i don't know what would possibly make you think you wouldn't get dominated in lane in nearly all mid matchups. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
In an ap vs ap mid, you realistically arent looking at the ability to kill someone else until about level 4 for the more aggressive champs, 6 for ones like annie, ori, and malz. So thats 4 levels I would be safe for, and grabbing last hits. After that it just becomes a matter of staying in exp range and last hitting what I can, keeping the lane as close to tower as possible. No way at any point would I end up more than a level behind simply because I would have to be zoned from too many waves. I mean, if it was against ez or urgot, ya sure I would be done for. Otherwise I dont think it would be all that hard to limit the damage. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
in other news, Lee Sin is still batshit insanely overpowered. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On September 26 2011 23:55 Mogwai wrote: this discussion is stupid. Let's just set up jiji vs. T_D and call it a day, k? in other news, Lee Sin is still batshit insanely overpowered. Hmm. Lee Sin op? I think that calls for more Xin nerfs personally. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
:> Edit: And if you're lucky he'll take it so personally that he'll start crushing you in lane and then die to a jungle gank at ~4:20 :D | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On September 26 2011 22:53 Two_DoWn wrote: Jungle is the hardest role in the game. Hell, I could lane against Jiji solo mid and not die. I may not get anywhere near the same cs as him, but I know enough to not die. Jungling? If I had to go against OddOne I would be underleveled, have no where near the same gank presence, and probably lose jungle control after doing blue. The thing people forget about jungling is that you have to juggle the need of 3 lanes AND yourself. Constant ganking doesnt accomplish anything and only sets you back. Not ganking the right opportunities just ends in the jungle and the lanes failing miserably. And as much as the lane feels like they know the best times to gank, they really dont. A lane only sees the opponent cuz thats all they have to look at. They rarely look at the minimap to see jungle position, health, and mana, yet expect the jungle to be able to know those stats for every champ in the game. Great jungles have a decent idea of those stats. The rest of us dont. Dont expect your 1200 jungle to play like Kobe. I agree, except i find support to have some more in-direct way of finding a difference. As a jungler, you can feel it by being underleveled, loss of buffs and perhaps losing advantage of dragon (maybe even be behind in terms of ganks, but that's another story). As support, you can fucking feel it, when your team depends on you to ward stuff, but they just get erased like super quickly because of the enemy support winning so hard on map control. Meh i might just be shitting words out dunno. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
The thread is making me angry, don't understand how people can be so deluded. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On September 27 2011 00:06 zulu_nation8 wrote: twodown what will happen is at lv1 when you go up to last hit your creep jiji will land skill shot and hit his creep while you miss your creep and misclick him while taking damage from his creeps attack you. At lv2 jiji will land another skillshot+ ignite, you flash away too late letting jiji auto you twice leading to first blood. Afterward you will get zoned out of exp range and at lv3 when you've finally had enough and decide to lasthit a ranged creep with barely any health jiji lands another skillshot, autos you while orb walking and kill you again. None of what you just said makes any sense. It's amusing people think they can not get shit from lv1 vs people 1k elo higher. The difference in skill will show up the moment you get to lane. The thread is making me angry, don't understand how people can be so deluded. I think you forgot about the point where I forget how to left click and cant even leave spawn. And how I cant actually select any champion abilities. And dont know how to buy anything from the store. So really its a miracle that I can even load up the game given how inept I am at it. I mean, just look at your post. You assume, at level 1, that I already fuck up. And that I am to stupid to realize that by clicking him I take creep agro. Look. Its simple. Is jiji better than me? Yes. If I try to play normally, will he kill me and crush me in lane? Yes. If I play defensively, only grab what last hits I can get, and keep the lane just off the tower will I die? No. Will I end up behind in CS? Yes. Will I end up behind in level? Yes, but not by that much simply because it is nearly impossible to be more than a level behind post 6. Jiji is one of the best ap carry players not because he GETS kills, but because he avoids deaths while getting his farm. Ill say it again: YOU CANNOT KILL ANYONE IN LANE IN THIS GAME UNLESS THEY MAKE A MISTAKE. THERE IS NO BEING OUTPLAYED IN TERMS OF KILLS AND DEATHS. There are only the mistakes you make by being too greedy and allowing yourself to be punished. I can limit my mistakes to the point where I will not die, but I will have to give up farm to do ti. Jiji, regi, salce can all limit mistakes to the point where they will not die and do NOT have to give up farm to do it. THAT is what makes them good at what they do. Nothing else. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
i'm so [game-]old now. i feel like goddamn boxer or something. my mind can comprehend what's going on and realizes what i have to do but my hands don't keep up haha. or maybe it's just that i'm absolutely terrible at this game. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 26 2011 23:47 Two_DoWn wrote: In an ap vs ap mid, you realistically arent looking at the ability to kill someone else until about level 4 for the more aggressive champs, 6 for ones like annie, ori, and malz. So thats 4 levels I would be safe for, and grabbing last hits. lol@lasthitting safely for 4 levels. I really don't know what to say if you think differently. I guess in your world a 1400 ap carry can "play safe" and "stay even" vs a 2400 ap carry. | ||
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