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On August 09 2011 02:28 cascades wrote:
Speaking of fiddle, is there anyway to beat him with a melee hero that cannot interrupt his drain but has ignite?
You need some Mres, but I've found that at least Akali was able to kill fiddle really quickly even while he drained because of the lifesteal and the bonus mres from the shroud. Mordekaiser can do it well, as can Udyr and anyone else with shield(though udyr also can stun).
If you're at 30 mres and have no cc you probably should run unless you're fed and have like a bloodthirster
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I think Tristana is a better Taric counter than Sivir. Jump 800 range all day everyday. Add in Explosive Shot over Ricochet and you have a solid counter.
I think Taric/Trist beats Soraka/Non-Cait lanes too. Heavy magic damage + healing debuff is real strong.
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Does that also translate to MF, or does her lack of jump null that statement?
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Taric/MF is really strong o.o
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On August 09 2011 02:34 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 02:14 Juicyfruit wrote:
Btw, this sounds stupid, but how do you jungle effectively as fiddle. I don't particularly have any particular problems with his starting run if I get blue, but what exactly are you suppose to be doing in cases where your blue buff is down and you basically have no mana to gank if you want to keep up a good jungling speed? Run the solomid route- big wriath, gols, wraiths, wolves, blue, gols, wraiths, wolves= level 5 and a half, from there you can gank or drag.
Sooo much better to take advantage of his really strong level 2 gank.
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Sooo much better to not have to worry about people going straight to you blue because they know 99% of fidds need it in order to jungle.
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On August 09 2011 02:52 broz0rs wrote:
Taric/MF is really strong o.o
They mean MF against Taric in a support lane.
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I don't think MF is that great against Taric compared to Tristana or Sivir - she doesn't actually have a way out she can use in response to a short range CC. She's difficult to land the first hit on without flashing, but Dazzle is so slow Tristana or Sivir can react to even a Flash-Dazzle with their escape.
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Why would MF be any good at all vs Taric + Cait? You still have the same problem where if you get Taric stunned it's a guaranteed shit-ton of damage.
Trist can sort of avoid this because you can rocket jump while stunned if you time it correctly.
Sivir avoids this by just spell shielding the stuns.
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Teemo/soraka #1 against taric cait.
Saw it on smash stream. When taric is about to stun blind cait, then you have better healing and better damage no problem. Start boots+3 so seh doesn't get free harass hits.
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On August 09 2011 03:05 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 02:34 Two_DoWn wrote:On August 09 2011 02:14 Juicyfruit wrote:
Btw, this sounds stupid, but how do you jungle effectively as fiddle. I don't particularly have any particular problems with his starting run if I get blue, but what exactly are you suppose to be doing in cases where your blue buff is down and you basically have no mana to gank if you want to keep up a good jungling speed? Run the solomid route- big wriath, gols, wraiths, wolves, blue, gols, wraiths, wolves= level 5 and a half, from there you can gank or drag. Sooo much better to take advantage of his really strong level 2 gank.
At my elo people tend to not ward dragon all that early and people's cv skills are sub-par. As such, with Fiddle you can do lvl 5 dragons pretty darn easily. Out of the last 6 times I played fiddle, I've been able to do a solo lvl 5 dragon successfully 4 of out those 6 times. The two times I got cauhgt via cv or just bad luck, escaping's pretty easy and there's no harm done whatsoever really.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 09 2011 03:07 Two_DoWn wrote:
Sooo much better to not have to worry about people going straight to you blue because they know 99% of fidds need it in order to jungle.
If your team's level 1 is too weak to defend your blue, how does not starting there change the fact that the other team will take it? Not like starting somewhere else magically prevents the enemy from going to your blue. And it will hurt your jungling just the same either way.
As it stands, Fiddle's abilities are pretty good for a level 1 fight (5 target Dark Wind = gg) though that may also require you to get more help on Blue.
IMO playing Fiddle defensively in jungle just doesn't play to the strengths of his kit. He clears small camps pretty slowly, and has a 0-damage long-CC spell. You need to take advantage of your strong ganks early, and the fact that enemy junglers without hard CC have a hard time 1v1ing you through drain.
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If you start wraith->gols->wolves, a stolen blue doenst bother you as much cuz you can back, do it again, starting at level 3 with some boots and a mana pot.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 09 2011 03:51 Two_DoWn wrote:
If you start wraith->gols->wolves, a stolen blue doenst bother you as much cuz you can back, do it again, starting at level 3 with some boots and a mana pot.
Why would you PLAN around starting somewhere else though? You'll generally get enough infoemation to decide where to start before either camp spawns.
If you're stronger than them, start your blue. If they try to stop you, win the lvl 1 fight.
If you're weaker, play safe/defensive and do the small clear path. You may still be able to do blue with the right info (e.g. CV @ 1:53 catches all 5 enemies waiting for their own blue to spawn).
Start blue when you can, small clear when you have to. Planning around defensive starts when there's no reason to just gives up potential gank opportunities for no gain.
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Only starting at wraiths is always better for fidds. You get a clear and a half instead of just a clear, have blue and red for a longer period of time when you would be ganking, and a MUCH faster 6, which is where you want to be as fidds.
So not only is it better if your getting countered, its also better if you arent.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 09 2011 04:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only starting at wraiths is always better for fidds. You get a clear and a half instead of just a clear, have blue and red for a longer period of time when you would be ganking, and a MUCH faster 6, which is where you want to be as fidds.
So not only is it better if your getting countered, its also better if you arent.
That depends how relevant you consider a level 2 blue gank when all laners are still level 1 to be.
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What Double-Down says makes a lot of sense because from my experience, if you start at blue, levels 4 1/2 to 6 is a struggle because you won't have the mana to jungle and gank. Level 5 dragon would be unthinkable without blue buff I guess? Also, you'd probably not have enough mana for your level 6 gank.
Also, taking fear at level 2 .. doesn't that just slow down your jungling THAT much more? How much can your initial fear + drain combo do exactly to justify that? It's not like you see udyr take bear stance at level 2 all the time.. (or do you?)
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I mean, if I wanted to gank at level 2, I'd go noct, xin, or jarman.
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It's not always about wanting to gank at level 2, but the opportunity presenting itself and you jumping on it to take the advantage.
How viable is Rylais on mumu? I always have problems deciding what the best the best health items to get are and I really hate building sunfire capes for health because they're so cost ineffective, but then I discovered ryalis. The slow is pretty much wasted, but the health and AP is decent. Not sure if better or worse than just building a warmogs and farming assists though.
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Slow wasted what? Despair procs it, hence you get a perma slow... how is it wasted?
Anyway, to answer your question, I situationally like it, but if you really feel like you're wasting the slow, just build a fucking RoA or something. I frequently get it as my 3rd big ticket item after sunfire and FoN after my Philo HoG Merc opening, though nowadays I'm mostly doing Aegis post PhiloHoG -> sunfire FoN and then the game is typically over.
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EPT
