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[WuKong Patch] General Discussion - Page 79

Forum Index > LoL General
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Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
August 08 2011 17:35 GMT
#1561
On August 09 2011 02:28 cascades wrote:
Speaking of fiddle, is there anyway to beat him with a melee hero that cannot interrupt his drain but has ignite?

You need some Mres, but I've found that at least Akali was able to kill fiddle really quickly even while he drained because of the lifesteal and the bonus mres from the shroud. Mordekaiser can do it well, as can Udyr and anyone else with shield(though udyr also can stun).

If you're at 30 mres and have no cc you probably should run unless you're fed and have like a bloodthirster
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
August 08 2011 17:44 GMT
#1562
I think Tristana is a better Taric counter than Sivir. Jump 800 range all day everyday. Add in Explosive Shot over Ricochet and you have a solid counter.

I think Taric/Trist beats Soraka/Non-Cait lanes too. Heavy magic damage + healing debuff is real strong.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-08 17:48:57
August 08 2011 17:48 GMT
#1563
Does that also translate to MF, or does her lack of jump null that statement?
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
broz0rs
Profile Joined July 2008
United States2294 Posts
August 08 2011 17:52 GMT
#1564
Taric/MF is really strong o.o
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
August 08 2011 18:05 GMT
#1565
On August 09 2011 02:34 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 02:14 Juicyfruit wrote:
Btw, this sounds stupid, but how do you jungle effectively as fiddle. I don't particularly have any particular problems with his starting run if I get blue, but what exactly are you suppose to be doing in cases where your blue buff is down and you basically have no mana to gank if you want to keep up a good jungling speed?

Run the solomid route- big wriath, gols, wraiths, wolves, blue, gols, wraiths, wolves= level 5 and a half, from there you can gank or drag.

Sooo much better to take advantage of his really strong level 2 gank.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
August 08 2011 18:07 GMT
#1566
Sooo much better to not have to worry about people going straight to you blue because they know 99% of fidds need it in order to jungle.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
dnastyx
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2707 Posts
August 08 2011 18:09 GMT
#1567
On August 09 2011 02:52 broz0rs wrote:
Taric/MF is really strong o.o


They mean MF against Taric in a support lane.
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
August 08 2011 18:10 GMT
#1568
I don't think MF is that great against Taric compared to Tristana or Sivir - she doesn't actually have a way out she can use in response to a short range CC. She's difficult to land the first hit on without flashing, but Dazzle is so slow Tristana or Sivir can react to even a Flash-Dazzle with their escape.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
arnath
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1317 Posts
August 08 2011 18:14 GMT
#1569
Why would MF be any good at all vs Taric + Cait? You still have the same problem where if you get Taric stunned it's a guaranteed shit-ton of damage.

Trist can sort of avoid this because you can rocket jump while stunned if you time it correctly.

Sivir avoids this by just spell shielding the stuns.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23460 Posts
August 08 2011 18:30 GMT
#1570
Teemo/soraka #1 against taric cait.
Saw it on smash stream. When taric is about to stun blind cait, then you have better healing and better damage no problem. Start boots+3 so seh doesn't get free harass hits.
aka Teutonica
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
August 08 2011 18:33 GMT
#1571
On August 09 2011 03:05 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 02:34 Two_DoWn wrote:
On August 09 2011 02:14 Juicyfruit wrote:
Btw, this sounds stupid, but how do you jungle effectively as fiddle. I don't particularly have any particular problems with his starting run if I get blue, but what exactly are you suppose to be doing in cases where your blue buff is down and you basically have no mana to gank if you want to keep up a good jungling speed?

Run the solomid route- big wriath, gols, wraiths, wolves, blue, gols, wraiths, wolves= level 5 and a half, from there you can gank or drag.

Sooo much better to take advantage of his really strong level 2 gank.

At my elo people tend to not ward dragon all that early and people's cv skills are sub-par. As such, with Fiddle you can do lvl 5 dragons pretty darn easily. Out of the last 6 times I played fiddle, I've been able to do a solo lvl 5 dragon successfully 4 of out those 6 times. The two times I got cauhgt via cv or just bad luck, escaping's pretty easy and there's no harm done whatsoever really.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-08 18:50:39
August 08 2011 18:42 GMT
#1572
On August 09 2011 03:07 Two_DoWn wrote:
Sooo much better to not have to worry about people going straight to you blue because they know 99% of fidds need it in order to jungle.

If your team's level 1 is too weak to defend your blue, how does not starting there change the fact that the other team will take it? Not like starting somewhere else magically prevents the enemy from going to your blue. And it will hurt your jungling just the same either way.

As it stands, Fiddle's abilities are pretty good for a level 1 fight (5 target Dark Wind = gg) though that may also require you to get more help on Blue.

IMO playing Fiddle defensively in jungle just doesn't play to the strengths of his kit. He clears small camps pretty slowly, and has a 0-damage long-CC spell. You need to take advantage of your strong ganks early, and the fact that enemy junglers without hard CC have a hard time 1v1ing you through drain.
Moderator
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
August 08 2011 18:51 GMT
#1573
If you start wraith->gols->wolves, a stolen blue doenst bother you as much cuz you can back, do it again, starting at level 3 with some boots and a mana pot.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-08 19:08:59
August 08 2011 19:04 GMT
#1574
On August 09 2011 03:51 Two_DoWn wrote:
If you start wraith->gols->wolves, a stolen blue doenst bother you as much cuz you can back, do it again, starting at level 3 with some boots and a mana pot.

Why would you PLAN around starting somewhere else though? You'll generally get enough infoemation to decide where to start before either camp spawns.

If you're stronger than them, start your blue. If they try to stop you, win the lvl 1 fight.

If you're weaker, play safe/defensive and do the small clear path. You may still be able to do blue with the right info (e.g. CV @ 1:53 catches all 5 enemies waiting for their own blue to spawn).

Start blue when you can, small clear when you have to. Planning around defensive starts when there's no reason to just gives up potential gank opportunities for no gain.
Moderator
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
August 08 2011 19:08 GMT
#1575
Only starting at wraiths is always better for fidds. You get a clear and a half instead of just a clear, have blue and red for a longer period of time when you would be ganking, and a MUCH faster 6, which is where you want to be as fidds.

So not only is it better if your getting countered, its also better if you arent.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 08 2011 19:15 GMT
#1576
On August 09 2011 04:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only starting at wraiths is always better for fidds. You get a clear and a half instead of just a clear, have blue and red for a longer period of time when you would be ganking, and a MUCH faster 6, which is where you want to be as fidds.

So not only is it better if your getting countered, its also better if you arent.

That depends how relevant you consider a level 2 blue gank when all laners are still level 1 to be.
Moderator
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-08 19:19:17
August 08 2011 19:17 GMT
#1577
What Double-Down says makes a lot of sense because from my experience, if you start at blue, levels 4 1/2 to 6 is a struggle because you won't have the mana to jungle and gank. Level 5 dragon would be unthinkable without blue buff I guess? Also, you'd probably not have enough mana for your level 6 gank.

Also, taking fear at level 2 .. doesn't that just slow down your jungling THAT much more? How much can your initial fear + drain combo do exactly to justify that? It's not like you see udyr take bear stance at level 2 all the time.. (or do you?)
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
August 08 2011 19:35 GMT
#1578
I mean, if I wanted to gank at level 2, I'd go noct, xin, or jarman.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
August 08 2011 19:40 GMT
#1579
It's not always about wanting to gank at level 2, but the opportunity presenting itself and you jumping on it to take the advantage.

How viable is Rylais on mumu? I always have problems deciding what the best the best health items to get are and I really hate building sunfire capes for health because they're so cost ineffective, but then I discovered ryalis. The slow is pretty much wasted, but the health and AP is decent. Not sure if better or worse than just building a warmogs and farming assists though.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
August 08 2011 19:44 GMT
#1580
Slow wasted what? Despair procs it, hence you get a perma slow... how is it wasted?

Anyway, to answer your question, I situationally like it, but if you really feel like you're wasting the slow, just build a fucking RoA or something. I frequently get it as my 3rd big ticket item after sunfire and FoN after my Philo HoG Merc opening, though nowadays I'm mostly doing Aegis post PhiloHoG -> sunfire FoN and then the game is typically over.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
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