EPTStuff like this isn't really particularly effective in solo lane but in duo lane can cripple pretty much either of the two targets right away.
[WuKong Patch] General Discussion - Page 78
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Stuff like this isn't really particularly effective in solo lane but in duo lane can cripple pretty much either of the two targets right away. | ||
|
Niton
United States2395 Posts
Here's a short list of things high Elo US ignored or called bad right up until the point that they became "good" - - Malphite - Spellvamp, especially Will of the Ancients - Evelynn - Support / Ranged bottom - Jax - Lane Udyr - Alistar - Gangplank v2 (post Raise Morale change, pre Grog-Soaked Blade change) - Cassiopeia - Support Solos And, most importantly: - Morde es #1 --- There are things that didn't recieve buffs in the patch they became viable in, many of which have been 'known' for a long time by players with worse mechanics or decision-making. On the other hand, anyone else remember when you'd rush Soul Shroud on your support because it gave amazing stats? | ||
|
0123456789
United States3216 Posts
| ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
For you to shut off the tide of innovation just because "I'm 2k so I'm right" doesn't mean shit. Someone will find something that works in bot lane better than ad/support. You dont think that it is going to be cc+ap carry. Thats fine. But there was a game with CLG and UNR where CLG tried to run taric brand bot against sona and ashe, and UNR had to straight up RUN from bot lane and switch back and forth while CLG followed. Last I checked, thats top tier play. Top tier play is actually the WORST place you can look toward for innovation. People at the top play what they are used to because they know it works. SK or EG or CLG arent going to switch up a tried and true strategy in a tournament until something has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be effective. Hell, look at how long it took US teams to pick up ad/support. Innovation typically comes from the second tier of players who play their way into the top by doing something a bit different. | ||
|
Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Based on my solo queue experiences, Nasus dominates Taric/Caitlyn 1v2 top, Malzahar is a really strong counterjungler with a potent level 3 gank, and Tiamat Malphite is unstoppable. | ||
|
Niton
United States2395 Posts
On August 09 2011 00:55 Tooplark wrote: Malzahar is a really strong counterjungler with a potent level 3 gank I've seen this work at 1600. Nullzone + cc chain so powerful. edit: He's actually someone I could see him as being legitimately viable in another meta, somewhere where AP is relegated to sidelane and Amumu's not an option for your team from either a pick or a ban. Null Zone is amazingly powerful for Dragon/Baron control, and I'm decently sure he'd be at least on par with Rammus or post-nerf Nunu as a jungler lol. | ||
|
Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On August 08 2011 21:03 Craton wrote: Renekton has a fraction of Lee Sin's range. You can Q from 975 range, decide if you want to Q again at your leisure, then W to safety at 750 range. Meanwhile, your Q does the extra damage just by pressing the button again and sets up your double E automatically. Renekton needs E for damage, since they nerfed Q and W and pushed damage to E. He can go about 500 range per E and requires hitting something on Slice to even be able to cast Dice. If he's using minions to have a range equal to Lee Sin, then he's losing half his damage on E and he has no way to escape. If he's using E to attack you, then E back out, he still has only ~55% the total range of Lee Sin. You also don't have the luxury of flying to a teammate or ward (meaning the only way you get a meaningful escape with E is doubling through minions, aka the long way to run away). The only advantage Renekton has with E vs Lee Sin's QW is that he can go over some narrow ledges/trees without assistance. Yeah theoretically you can Q someone from halfway across the map, but the chances of that connecting are little to none. It is not nearly as difficult to successfully Slice through some creeps, WQ, and then Dice back to where you were not too long ago. On August 08 2011 22:00 Craton wrote: It's an energy cost on a short CD. There's no penalty for missing. Yeah there is, you can't dive kick into battle now. That an that's a huge chunk of his damage because iirc it does damage based on % hp missing or something dumb. If renekton misses his slice on the champion hes targeting he has a chance to hit something else and still be able to dice into a better position. If he misses everything then chances are the person flashed away which is a good trade imho | ||
|
cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On August 09 2011 00:44 nyxnyxnyx wrote: brand is honestly really awesome at bot. Brand is awesome everywhere -_- | ||
|
0123456789
United States3216 Posts
On August 09 2011 00:46 Two_DoWn wrote: So numbers, the American of 2 beefy guys bot was best because CLG won WCG with it? What about roaming? Tournament play used to MANDATE that. And then came the ad/support. And something WILL turn out to be better. Thats how games work. For you to shut off the tide of innovation just because "I'm 2k so I'm right" doesn't mean shit. Someone will find something that works in bot lane better than ad/support. You dont think that it is going to be cc+ap carry. Thats fine. But there was a game with CLG and UNR where CLG tried to run taric brand bot against sona and ashe, and UNR had to straight up RUN from bot lane and switch back and forth while CLG followed. Last I checked, thats top tier play. Top tier play is actually the WORST place you can look toward for innovation. People at the top play what they are used to because they know it works. SK or EG or CLG arent going to switch up a tried and true strategy in a tournament until something has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be effective. Hell, look at how long it took US teams to pick up ad/support. Innovation typically comes from the second tier of players who play their way into the top by doing something a bit different. If this 2K im so right shit is what is bothering you, then I'm sorry, but I'm not trying to shut down the tide of innovation, and I'm not trying to say being 2K makes me right. Everybody on here keeps saying ap is so good, and in my mind I am not convinced. I haven't been exposed to ap + support a lot, and when I've faced them, they have done really poorly. I am merely looking for something other than just theorycraft to support this theory. I just hope that everybody backs up what they say with more evidence and can show it to others so they understand and can express their innovation in something other than just words. | ||
|
arnath
United States1317 Posts
On August 09 2011 00:46 Two_DoWn wrote: But there was a game with CLG and UNR where CLG tried to run taric brand bot against sona and ashe, and UNR had to straight up RUN from bot lane and switch back and forth while CLG followed. Last I checked, thats top tier play. I'm not necessarily arguing for Numbers' point when I say this (I think AP+Support can at least theoretically be a really good lane) but Ashe is a terrible laner in general. I don't feel like Sona + Ashe is a useful example for this case. Yes it's an AD + Support combo but it's certainly one of the weaker combos. | ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
| ||
|
arnath
United States1317 Posts
| ||
|
Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
| ||
|
gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On August 09 2011 02:13 arnath wrote: I was thinking about this yesterday and it seems like Sivir would be a really good counter to Taric + Cait in bottom lane (because you can just spellshield the Taric stuns that set up the combo). This happened in a game I played yesterday but I wasn't actually in bottom so it's hard to say for sure how the lane played out. Anybody tried this firsthand? yep i've both played as sivir against taric+cait, and had sivir against me as taric+AD and it just completely shuts down the combo especially if brush is warded so you never get surprised by the stun, taric just becomes a heal-bot and he's awful at that, so it's quite effective. then it's just a matter of managing your sivir late-game compared to god-mode cait | ||
|
clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On August 09 2011 02:24 gtrsrs wrote: yep i've both played as sivir against taric+cait, and had sivir against me as taric+AD and it just completely shuts down the combo especially if brush is warded so you never get surprised by the stun, taric just becomes a heal-bot and he's awful at that, so it's quite effective. then it's just a matter of managing your sivir late-game compared to god-mode cait is sivir considered bad late? I thought she deals insane damage with her aoe stuff and pushes waves in 2s while cait's steroid is mostly singletarget oriented. | ||
|
cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
| ||
|
dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
In either of these situations, run. | ||
|
Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On August 09 2011 02:28 cascades wrote: Speaking of fiddle, is there anyway to beat him with a melee hero that cannot interrupt his drain but has ignite? what melee hero are you laning against a fiddle with who cannot interupt his drain? | ||
|
gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On August 09 2011 02:27 clickrush wrote: is sivir considered bad late? I thought she deals insane damage with her aoe stuff and pushes waves in 2s while cait's steroid is mostly singletarget oriented. sivir is bad or good depending on both team comps and how you build her where you can't really go wrong with pure damage on cait (due to her long range and escapes), sivir is practically a melee champ, so you have to be really good with positioning and build the right balance of damage and survivability. against taric+cait you *should* get enough farm that you'll be fine regardless, but it still won't be ezmode-attack-from-10000-range-and-get-penta cait style shit | ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On August 09 2011 02:14 Juicyfruit wrote: Btw, this sounds stupid, but how do you jungle effectively as fiddle. I don't particularly have any particular problems with his starting run if I get blue, but what exactly are you suppose to be doing in cases where your blue buff is down and you basically have no mana to gank if you want to keep up a good jungling speed? Run the solomid route- big wriath, gols, wraiths, wolves, blue, gols, wraiths, wolves= level 5 and a half, from there you can gank or drag. | ||
| ||
