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On May 11 2011 05:04 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 04:54 Slaughter wrote:
Played a mid vs Vayne and she kinda scares me. Because the player playing her obviously had no clue how she actually worked and was bad but she still was able to have some pretty good moments. She kinda looks like if you really know how to handle her she will rape then melt faces. Hotshot called her trash on stream. He rushed IE, might have to do with that. No huge newbwave incoming which will instabuy Vayne thanks to stream. Ty Hotshot.
Obviously you haven't played yet today.
Two Vaynes per game, no exceptions.
Both bad.
On the plus side, this allows me to play Rumble during free week and suck, yet still do well 'cause he's OP as hell.
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rumble's q, r and autos are all so damn awkward to control. Feel like a complete retard playing him and still go 16-8 stupid champ
the jax buff however is amazing
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On May 10 2011 20:44 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 20:07 BluzMan wrote:
This item doesn't make much sense at the first glance.
Typically ranged carries forego mercs to get AS boots because the first AS boost is the most crucial, next the stat suffers diminishing returns. However, you can now not build mercs, but still get tenacity from an item that ALSO gives attack speed. So what boots are you supposed to get then? C&D kinda gives both the benefits of mercs and zerks and still looks pretty slot-inefficient for a late-game carry since you will have boots anyway.
However, I might be underestimating the benefits of Boots of Swiftness on ranged AD. Swifts with C&D seems to make perfect sense, even though it's 2 item slots neither of which gives raw damage or raw mitigation. I dunno really. Crit is useless when you don't have much AD or even your IE, AS is not that good without the same items. Tenacity is wonderful, but BVeil kinda makes you bulkier aside from giving it's unique passive. what i dont think so starting situation: you do x dps with normal attacks you buy an item with 50% aspd bonus: you do 1.5 x dps with normal attacks you buy the same item again: you do 2x dps with normal attacks where are the diminishing returns?
First you gained 50% dps, second item increases your dps with 33%, next item will increase it by 25% etc. You get less relatively, hence 'deminishing returns'. Does that answer your question?
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Thats a stupid argument. It increases your damage by a static amount per point. The relative increase doesn't matter UNTIL it becomes worse than attack damage. Every % attack speed you get multiplies the effectiveness of AD (and survivial stats of course) so until it becomes worse than AD its still a good stat. Your argument also claims that armour has diminishing returns when it doesn't. Just at some point hp becomes better.
There is no diminishing returns. Only breaking points for stat effectiveness.
If 50% attack speed always increased your dps by 50% it would stack with itself and become overpowered. So many people don't seem to understand this at all, although its usually with armour/resist.
I.e
1 DPS-->1.5 DPS-->2.25 DPS. So that means 100% attack speed gives you 125% dps? Ridiculous.
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On May 11 2011 06:27 BouBou.865 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 20:44 freelander wrote:On May 10 2011 20:07 BluzMan wrote:
This item doesn't make much sense at the first glance.
Typically ranged carries forego mercs to get AS boots because the first AS boost is the most crucial, next the stat suffers diminishing returns. However, you can now not build mercs, but still get tenacity from an item that ALSO gives attack speed. So what boots are you supposed to get then? C&D kinda gives both the benefits of mercs and zerks and still looks pretty slot-inefficient for a late-game carry since you will have boots anyway.
However, I might be underestimating the benefits of Boots of Swiftness on ranged AD. Swifts with C&D seems to make perfect sense, even though it's 2 item slots neither of which gives raw damage or raw mitigation. I dunno really. Crit is useless when you don't have much AD or even your IE, AS is not that good without the same items. Tenacity is wonderful, but BVeil kinda makes you bulkier aside from giving it's unique passive. what i dont think so starting situation: you do x dps with normal attacks you buy an item with 50% aspd bonus: you do 1.5 x dps with normal attacks you buy the same item again: you do 2x dps with normal attacks where are the diminishing returns? First you gained 50% dps, second item increases your dps with 33%, next item will increase it by 25% etc. You get less relatively, hence 'deminishing returns'. Does that answer your question?
ok man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_return
read this and educate yourself.
diminishing returns are calculated marginally (per unit) for a good reason, not relatively to the current amount.
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On May 11 2011 06:35 Slayer91 wrote:
If 50% attack speed always increased your dps by 50% it would stack with itself and become overpowered. So many people don't seem to understand this at all, although its usually with armour/resist.
I.e
1 DPS-->1.5 DPS-->2.25 DPS. So that means 100% attack speed gives you 125% dps? Ridiculous.
noone said buying another 50% attack speed increased your current dps by 50%
i wrote that buying another 50% is increasing the same amount as the first 50% item hence it is not diminishing
ridiculous? yea if you misunderstood it
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Way to start a holy war out of nothing.
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On May 11 2011 07:49 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:35 Slayer91 wrote:
If 50% attack speed always increased your dps by 50% it would stack with itself and become overpowered. So many people don't seem to understand this at all, although its usually with armour/resist.
I.e
1 DPS-->1.5 DPS-->2.25 DPS. So that means 100% attack speed gives you 125% dps? Ridiculous. noone said buying another 50% attack speed increased your current dps by 50% i wrote that buying another 50% is increasing the same amount as the first 50% item hence it is not diminishing ridiculous? yea if you misunderstood it
It's not current dps, but you get my point, if it wasn't working the way boubou was claiming it would be if not "diminishing returns" it would be stacking multiplicatively with itself which would make no sense. I'm actually agreeing with you, I don't know why you're quoting me lol.
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On May 11 2011 08:04 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 07:49 freelander wrote:On May 11 2011 06:35 Slayer91 wrote:
If 50% attack speed always increased your dps by 50% it would stack with itself and become overpowered. So many people don't seem to understand this at all, although its usually with armour/resist.
I.e
1 DPS-->1.5 DPS-->2.25 DPS. So that means 100% attack speed gives you 125% dps? Ridiculous. noone said buying another 50% attack speed increased your current dps by 50% i wrote that buying another 50% is increasing the same amount as the first 50% item hence it is not diminishing ridiculous? yea if you misunderstood it It's not current dps, but you get my point, if it wasn't working the way boubou was claiming it would be if not "diminishing returns" it would be stacking multiplicatively with itself which would make no sense. I'm actually agreeing with you, I don't know why you're quoting me lol.
im quoting you because you are writing strange things lol
boubou and I basically were disagreeing about the definition of diminishing returns
meanwhile I don't know what you're arguing for or against lol
if something doesn't have diminishing returns it doesn't mean it would be stacking multiplacatively with itself, it just means it t gives at least the same amount of return per gold unit which it does so i really don't know what you are writing about lol
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"First you gained 50% dps, second item increases your dps with 33%, next item will increase it by 25% etc. You get less relatively, hence 'deminishing returns'. Does that answer your question?"
He's saying that since it works like this its diminishing returns. I'm saying that if you constantly gained 50% dps per item it would be stacking with itself. I thought I made that pretty clear.
I also tried to justify that either its better than AD or its worse. The increase doesn't reduce just the effectiveness of AD becomes better the more AS you get, but remember AS increases the effectiveness of your current AD so there's a balance there.
At the end of the day it breaks down to WHATS THE BEST DAMAGE STAT.
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Patch 1.0.0.118
- Added random bugs to make game unplayable as per standard patch day
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all random ranked too fun
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On May 02 2011 10:34 dnastyx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 03:46 Shikyo wrote:On May 02 2011 03:40 Caller wrote:On May 02 2011 03:27 Shikyo wrote:
Btw, Master Yi with Morgana, Kayle, Nidalee and Nunu is nice. Yi goes for 3 thirsters, LW, IE, and nidalee and nunu buff him, morgana shields him and Kayle ultis him soon after. hi, substitute yi for twitch and this is meta 5 months ago please state your credentials for the benefit of people viewing, eu meta and skill level is radically different from us meta and skill level. It was a joke, man. Why are you always so serious and uptight This statement, coming from Shikyo? Gold.
(I'm a bit late but whatever)Well if you don't understand what you read that must seem like gold, actually it just is a joke. Caller trolls almost all the time and that comment was a total joke, since he's like the least serious person on this forum.
Seems like a couple people including you didn't get it and felt the need to let everyone know that they didn't get it. Your comment also shows that this wasn't the first message of mine that you didn't get.
About the patch, surprisingly it actually is really good, in my opinion. Vayne seems sickeningly overpowered, though, but the Shen nerf seems nice, as do the nocturne and jarvan nerfs. I definitely approve
On May 10 2011 11:14 myopia wrote:
oh good more Shen nerfs that don't address why people ban him
MATHCRAFT TIME
my typical build's bonus hp includes:
48 masteries
175 runes
270 aegis
450 sunfire
350 randuins
=
1293 bonus health
+
1958 health@18
=
3251 max health
old Ki Strike: 100+(3251*3.5%) = 213.8 (SO MUCH DAMAGE, WITH ONLY 8K GOLD IN ITEMS)
new Ki Strike: 95+(1293*8%) = 198.4
I might be tossing the Sunfire out after this nerf too. Where are these items that Shen is supposed to be carrying with? Frozen Mallet? hahaha
You really could start building warmogs, it's an amazing item anyway and you'll instantly get enough bonus dmg for it to be stronger than pre-nerf. Aegis also is a really poor choice imo.
by the way, it seems like this nerf is more directed towards Shen's laning, and it really should make it alot weaker. 15 dmg ki strikes and less Q damage are going to make him much more beatable
On May 11 2011 06:27 BouBou.865 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 20:44 freelander wrote:On May 10 2011 20:07 BluzMan wrote:
This item doesn't make much sense at the first glance.
Typically ranged carries forego mercs to get AS boots because the first AS boost is the most crucial, next the stat suffers diminishing returns. However, you can now not build mercs, but still get tenacity from an item that ALSO gives attack speed. So what boots are you supposed to get then? C&D kinda gives both the benefits of mercs and zerks and still looks pretty slot-inefficient for a late-game carry since you will have boots anyway.
However, I might be underestimating the benefits of Boots of Swiftness on ranged AD. Swifts with C&D seems to make perfect sense, even though it's 2 item slots neither of which gives raw damage or raw mitigation. I dunno really. Crit is useless when you don't have much AD or even your IE, AS is not that good without the same items. Tenacity is wonderful, but BVeil kinda makes you bulkier aside from giving it's unique passive. what i dont think so starting situation: you do x dps with normal attacks you buy an item with 50% aspd bonus: you do 1.5 x dps with normal attacks you buy the same item again: you do 2x dps with normal attacks where are the diminishing returns? First you gained 50% dps, second item increases your dps with 33%, next item will increase it by 25% etc. You get less relatively, hence 'deminishing returns'. Does that answer your question?
That makes no sense. You get less dmg relatively from dmg items too: 100 -> 150 compared to 150 -> 200.
That's not diminishing returns. Learn terms.
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On May 11 2011 09:45 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 10:34 dnastyx wrote:On May 02 2011 03:46 Shikyo wrote:On May 02 2011 03:40 Caller wrote:On May 02 2011 03:27 Shikyo wrote:
Btw, Master Yi with Morgana, Kayle, Nidalee and Nunu is nice. Yi goes for 3 thirsters, LW, IE, and nidalee and nunu buff him, morgana shields him and Kayle ultis him soon after. hi, substitute yi for twitch and this is meta 5 months ago please state your credentials for the benefit of people viewing, eu meta and skill level is radically different from us meta and skill level. It was a joke, man. Why are you always so serious and uptight This statement, coming from Shikyo? Gold. (I'm a bit late but whatever)Well if you don't understand what you read that must seem like gold, actually it just is a joke. Caller trolls almost all the time and that comment was a total joke, since he's like the least serious person on this forum. Seems like a couple people including you didn't get it and felt the need to let everyone know that they didn't get it. Your comment also shows that this wasn't the first message of mine that you didn't get. About the patch, surprisingly it actually is really good, in my opinion. Vayne seems sickeningly overpowered, though, but the Shen nerf seems nice, as do the nocturne and jarvan nerfs. I definitely approve Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:14 myopia wrote:
oh good more Shen nerfs that don't address why people ban him
MATHCRAFT TIME
my typical build's bonus hp includes:
48 masteries
175 runes
270 aegis
450 sunfire
350 randuins
=
1293 bonus health
+
1958 health@18
=
3251 max health
old Ki Strike: 100+(3251*3.5%) = 213.8 (SO MUCH DAMAGE, WITH ONLY 8K GOLD IN ITEMS)
new Ki Strike: 95+(1293*8%) = 198.4
I might be tossing the Sunfire out after this nerf too. Where are these items that Shen is supposed to be carrying with? Frozen Mallet? hahaha You really could start building warmogs, it's an amazing item anyway and you'll instantly get enough bonus dmg for it to be stronger than pre-nerf. Aegis also is a really poor choice imo. by the way, it seems like this nerf is more directed towards Shen's laning, and it really should make it alot weaker. 15 dmg ki strikes and less Q damage are going to make him much more beatable Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:27 BouBou.865 wrote:On May 10 2011 20:44 freelander wrote:On May 10 2011 20:07 BluzMan wrote:
This item doesn't make much sense at the first glance.
Typically ranged carries forego mercs to get AS boots because the first AS boost is the most crucial, next the stat suffers diminishing returns. However, you can now not build mercs, but still get tenacity from an item that ALSO gives attack speed. So what boots are you supposed to get then? C&D kinda gives both the benefits of mercs and zerks and still looks pretty slot-inefficient for a late-game carry since you will have boots anyway.
However, I might be underestimating the benefits of Boots of Swiftness on ranged AD. Swifts with C&D seems to make perfect sense, even though it's 2 item slots neither of which gives raw damage or raw mitigation. I dunno really. Crit is useless when you don't have much AD or even your IE, AS is not that good without the same items. Tenacity is wonderful, but BVeil kinda makes you bulkier aside from giving it's unique passive. what i dont think so starting situation: you do x dps with normal attacks you buy an item with 50% aspd bonus: you do 1.5 x dps with normal attacks you buy the same item again: you do 2x dps with normal attacks where are the diminishing returns? First you gained 50% dps, second item increases your dps with 33%, next item will increase it by 25% etc. You get less relatively, hence 'deminishing returns'. Does that answer your question? That makes no sense. You get less dmg relatively from dmg items too: 100 -> 150 compared to 150 -> 200. That's not diminishing returns. Learn terms.
This topic has diminishing returns to my interest
User was temp banned for this post.
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yussss warmogs on a character with no + armor/mr, and a good spammable shield.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
You shouldn't really spend energy on Feint as Shen since his other two spells are better.
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feint is merely a gap closer for him to bring the deeps
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On May 11 2011 17:59 freelander wrote:
feint is merely a gap closer for him to bring the deeps
I know giving myself a damage shield always results in me getting closer to the deeps...
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EPT
