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On April 27 2011 01:02 rigwarl wrote:
If you find it hard to last hit with any champion I advise going into a custom and practicing it until you can do it perfectly (say, restarting until you get all the minions in the first 5 waves without using spells). It will probably only take you less than an hour, there's really no excuse to miss last hits due to animation.
Where are you getting this from? Try reading what i said?
Some animations are better for last-hitting then others, it's just that simple. Wanna go on a lane? You get to play Soraka and ill be Brand and we shall see who gets more minion hits.
Some animations are easier then others and i prefer it easier. Nobody ever said or suggested that i had trouble last-hitting because of animations. Now please read a text before responding rather then pulling stuff out of your ass.
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On April 27 2011 06:02 dismiss wrote:
Caitlynn is retarded good now, probably Corki/Ashe level.T_T
She got even better line control, and can spam her escape better also longer range ult and so cheap on mana lol
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On April 27 2011 01:02 rigwarl wrote:
If you find it hard to last hit with any champion I advise going into a custom and practicing it until you can do it perfectly (say, restarting until you get all the minions in the first 5 waves without using spells). It will probably only take you less than an hour, there's really no excuse to miss last hits due to animation.
By the way, you obviously don't play cassiopeia. Her attack animation is worse than annies and I'd love to see someone try to lasthit with it properly.
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On April 27 2011 06:55 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:02 rigwarl wrote:
If you find it hard to last hit with any champion I advise going into a custom and practicing it until you can do it perfectly (say, restarting until you get all the minions in the first 5 waves without using spells). It will probably only take you less than an hour, there's really no excuse to miss last hits due to animation. By the way, you obviously don't play cassiopeia. Her attack animation is worse than annies and I'd love to see someone try to lasthit with it properly.
except it doesnt apply to Cass? cause with her passive and regen runes use spells everytime before it wears off or i go low on mana, of course u can use spells on her cause ur using them anyways
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On April 27 2011 06:03 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:02 rigwarl wrote:
If you find it hard to last hit with any champion I advise going into a custom and practicing it until you can do it perfectly (say, restarting until you get all the minions in the first 5 waves without using spells). It will probably only take you less than an hour, there's really no excuse to miss last hits due to animation. Where are you getting this from? Try reading what i said? Some animations are better for last-hitting then others, it's just that simple. Wanna go on a lane? You get to play Soraka and ill be Brand and we shall see who gets more minion hits. Some animations are easier then others and i prefer it easier. Nobody ever said or suggested that i had trouble last-hitting because of animations. Now please read a text before responding rather then pulling stuff out of your ass.
Holy shit, man. He was just trying to help. Why are you being such an ass?
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On April 27 2011 06:16 checo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:02 dismiss wrote:
Caitlynn is retarded good now, probably Corki/Ashe level.T_T She got even better line control, and can spam her escape better also longer range ult and so cheap on mana lol
Cheap on Mana? Wat? Q burns your mana so fast it's not funny. It's way worse than Ashe (10 less mana at rank 1, but only half the cooldown, and strictly more expensive at higher ranks), and even on Ashe you can outspam double MP5/L with ease.
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On April 27 2011 04:28 Juicyfruit wrote:
So actually playing Alistar in a game I note:
good thing: thanks to no-collision he can pretty much lineup the perfect headbutt and still get autoattacks in even with half a second off the stun.
bad thing: rumble KILLED headbutt into stun combo. Q,Q
good thing: you can headbutt a minion as a pseudo flash to get a pulverize. Together with mobility boots this make avoiding an alistar gank much harder than before even if his flash is on cd.
Good to know. I didn't really consider the hb into minion part, but damn, that is a boon.
So dumb of me not to have thought of that. I am shame, gg /seppuku
Also, Rumble did what how, now?
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On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
why do you want MORE instances where you *have* to have items to be effective in this game? that's one of the worst parts of LoL - item dependence. the way that AP scaling effects the game is that they have to make every champ scale with AP to stick with the heavy hitters. there were like 2 champs in this game that could build anything and still be effective. making ali more item dependent is really going to hurt his upper level play imo imo imo. why do you WANT more champs that are farm dependent. are you really going to want to give your farm to an alistar now as a carry? sure he needs it more, but that doesn't mean you need it less.
Because everyone being strong based on resource aquisition (Gold XP) makes LoL a Teamgame and not 1 carry with 4 people that babysitt more or less directly to let that carry get his farm. AP is the reason everyone has a reasonable powercurve and can contribute based on "farm".
EVERYONE is farm dependent and that is good for the game. Not having gold and XP needs to be a drawback. It works if your champ goes for a "support" build but you certainly won´t be usefull isolated like that.
The degree of item and level independence alistar had and still has makes him the god-king of roaming. Just to a far lesser degree. Roaming is not a bad thing but it needs to have drawbacks (so does Jungling while we are at it).
On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
also don't be ridiculous. no one uses alistar to backdoor at any sort of competent level of play. his passive was great for straight pushing, not BDing. he had the ability like no other melee champ in the game to run up to a tower that's defended by 5 people and do significant damage to it while his ranged carries hammered on it from behind. do you ignore alistar and try to stop the carries? ok alistar will just do 1/10th of your tower's life per hit for the next 6 seconds OR aoe disable your team when you run by him. do you focus alistar? okay he takes no damage and his carries wail on the tower. with his passive changed he's got no incentive to run up to the tower and create that issue. no ability to split push without building AD/AS. no ability to snipe a low HP tower, etc etc etc. his skillset was FAR from a "silly specialized backdoor" strat
Yes, the kind of gameplay the old passive promoted was either utterly useless or stupid when it worked. Thats why replacing it was a big buff. Reading comprehension.
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On April 27 2011 07:06 Asdkmoga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:55 Shikyo wrote:On April 27 2011 01:02 rigwarl wrote:
If you find it hard to last hit with any champion I advise going into a custom and practicing it until you can do it perfectly (say, restarting until you get all the minions in the first 5 waves without using spells). It will probably only take you less than an hour, there's really no excuse to miss last hits due to animation. By the way, you obviously don't play cassiopeia. Her attack animation is worse than annies and I'd love to see someone try to lasthit with it properly. except it doesnt apply to Cass? cause with her passive and regen runes use spells everytime before it wears off or i go low on mana, of course u can use spells on her cause ur using them anyways
So you want to lasthit minions in between your autoattacks with 20 dmg ticks? You could try E but it's a waste of mana. Yeah she can spam the ranged minions but the melee ones are zzz
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:55 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:02 rigwarl wrote:
If you find it hard to last hit with any champion I advise going into a custom and practicing it until you can do it perfectly (say, restarting until you get all the minions in the first 5 waves without using spells). It will probably only take you less than an hour, there's really no excuse to miss last hits due to animation. By the way, you obviously don't play cassiopeia. Her attack animation is worse than annies and I'd love to see someone try to lasthit with it properly.
? Annie's auto attack is really long range and the animation is fine. you can always use Q too.
Morgana, on the other hand... .___.
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On April 27 2011 07:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:55 Shikyo wrote:On April 27 2011 01:02 rigwarl wrote:
If you find it hard to last hit with any champion I advise going into a custom and practicing it until you can do it perfectly (say, restarting until you get all the minions in the first 5 waves without using spells). It will probably only take you less than an hour, there's really no excuse to miss last hits due to animation. By the way, you obviously don't play cassiopeia. Her attack animation is worse than annies and I'd love to see someone try to lasthit with it properly. ? Annie's auto attack is really long range and the animation is fine. you can always use Q too. Morgana, on the other hand... .___.
Have no problems with Morgana or karthus. Or even annie actually. Cass is just horrendous
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On April 27 2011 07:21 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
why do you want MORE instances where you *have* to have items to be effective in this game? that's one of the worst parts of LoL - item dependence. the way that AP scaling effects the game is that they have to make every champ scale with AP to stick with the heavy hitters. there were like 2 champs in this game that could build anything and still be effective. making ali more item dependent is really going to hurt his upper level play imo imo imo. why do you WANT more champs that are farm dependent. are you really going to want to give your farm to an alistar now as a carry? sure he needs it more, but that doesn't mean you need it less.
Because everyone being strong based on resource aquisition (Gold XP) makes LoL a Teamgame and not 1 carry with 4 people that babysitt more or less directly to let that carry get his farm. AP is the reason everyone has a reasonable powercurve and can contribute based on "farm". EVERYONE is farm dependent and that is good for the game. Not having gold and XP needs to be a drawback. It works if your champ goes for a "support" build but you certainly won´t be usefull isolated like that. The degree of item and level independence alistar had and still has makes him the god-king of roaming. Just to a far lesser degree. Roaming is not a bad thing but it needs to have drawbacks (so does Jungling while we are at it). Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
also don't be ridiculous. no one uses alistar to backdoor at any sort of competent level of play. his passive was great for straight pushing, not BDing. he had the ability like no other melee champ in the game to run up to a tower that's defended by 5 people and do significant damage to it while his ranged carries hammered on it from behind. do you ignore alistar and try to stop the carries? ok alistar will just do 1/10th of your tower's life per hit for the next 6 seconds OR aoe disable your team when you run by him. do you focus alistar? okay he takes no damage and his carries wail on the tower. with his passive changed he's got no incentive to run up to the tower and create that issue. no ability to split push without building AD/AS. no ability to snipe a low HP tower, etc etc etc. his skillset was FAR from a "silly specialized backdoor" strat Yes, the kind of gameplay the old passive promoted was either utterly useless or stupid when it worked. Thats why replacing it was a big buff. Reading comprehension.
700 elo player post
inb4warnedfortellingthetruth
no need to even respond to this. anyone who's played more than normal games can point out how dumb this post is
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 27 2011 07:11 SQWKZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 04:28 Juicyfruit wrote:
So actually playing Alistar in a game I note:
good thing: thanks to no-collision he can pretty much lineup the perfect headbutt and still get autoattacks in even with half a second off the stun.
bad thing: rumble KILLED headbutt into stun combo. Q,Q
good thing: you can headbutt a minion as a pseudo flash to get a pulverize. Together with mobility boots this make avoiding an alistar gank much harder than before even if his flash is on cd.
Good to know. I didn't really consider the hb into minion part, but damn, that is a boon. So dumb of me not to have thought of that. I am shame, gg /seppuku Also, Rumble did what how, now?
Sorry not rumble, Trample, the passive.
You can't W -> Q combo anymore.
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So um ya. Gp is now terrible. Like, worst champion in the game terrible. His new ulti radius is barely bigger than mf's e.
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On April 27 2011 08:16 Two_DoWn wrote:
So um ya. Gp is now terrible. Like, worst champion in the game terrible. His new ulti radius is barely bigger than mf's e.
As I've said, it deals less dmg, slows less, and has a much higher cooldown than MFs E. The only thing that it has over MFs E is that its global, but that's still incredibly weak for a freaking ulti.
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On April 27 2011 07:54 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 07:21 Unentschieden wrote:On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
why do you want MORE instances where you *have* to have items to be effective in this game? that's one of the worst parts of LoL - item dependence. the way that AP scaling effects the game is that they have to make every champ scale with AP to stick with the heavy hitters. there were like 2 champs in this game that could build anything and still be effective. making ali more item dependent is really going to hurt his upper level play imo imo imo. why do you WANT more champs that are farm dependent. are you really going to want to give your farm to an alistar now as a carry? sure he needs it more, but that doesn't mean you need it less.
Because everyone being strong based on resource aquisition (Gold XP) makes LoL a Teamgame and not 1 carry with 4 people that babysitt more or less directly to let that carry get his farm. AP is the reason everyone has a reasonable powercurve and can contribute based on "farm". EVERYONE is farm dependent and that is good for the game. Not having gold and XP needs to be a drawback. It works if your champ goes for a "support" build but you certainly won´t be usefull isolated like that. The degree of item and level independence alistar had and still has makes him the god-king of roaming. Just to a far lesser degree. Roaming is not a bad thing but it needs to have drawbacks (so does Jungling while we are at it). On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
also don't be ridiculous. no one uses alistar to backdoor at any sort of competent level of play. his passive was great for straight pushing, not BDing. he had the ability like no other melee champ in the game to run up to a tower that's defended by 5 people and do significant damage to it while his ranged carries hammered on it from behind. do you ignore alistar and try to stop the carries? ok alistar will just do 1/10th of your tower's life per hit for the next 6 seconds OR aoe disable your team when you run by him. do you focus alistar? okay he takes no damage and his carries wail on the tower. with his passive changed he's got no incentive to run up to the tower and create that issue. no ability to split push without building AD/AS. no ability to snipe a low HP tower, etc etc etc. his skillset was FAR from a "silly specialized backdoor" strat Yes, the kind of gameplay the old passive promoted was either utterly useless or stupid when it worked. Thats why replacing it was a big buff. Reading comprehension. 700 elo player post inb4warnedfortellingthetruth no need to even respond to this. anyone who's played more than normal games can point out how dumb this post is
I have no issue with disagreement if it consists of constructive criticism. Your initial post was good but you have bought NO defense against my points.
You don´t really even need it since part of the disagreement is partly opinion. Should a farmed/rich champion be better at whatever he does than a "poor" one? Yes I say.
Was the old passive "good", ergo being able to deal a lot damage to turrets without any offensive items and no other gameplay implication helpfull. You bought up a scenario you liked, I thought thats stupid.
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On April 27 2011 07:54 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 07:21 Unentschieden wrote:On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
why do you want MORE instances where you *have* to have items to be effective in this game? that's one of the worst parts of LoL - item dependence. the way that AP scaling effects the game is that they have to make every champ scale with AP to stick with the heavy hitters. there were like 2 champs in this game that could build anything and still be effective. making ali more item dependent is really going to hurt his upper level play imo imo imo. why do you WANT more champs that are farm dependent. are you really going to want to give your farm to an alistar now as a carry? sure he needs it more, but that doesn't mean you need it less.
Because everyone being strong based on resource aquisition (Gold XP) makes LoL a Teamgame and not 1 carry with 4 people that babysitt more or less directly to let that carry get his farm. AP is the reason everyone has a reasonable powercurve and can contribute based on "farm". EVERYONE is farm dependent and that is good for the game. Not having gold and XP needs to be a drawback. It works if your champ goes for a "support" build but you certainly won´t be usefull isolated like that. The degree of item and level independence alistar had and still has makes him the god-king of roaming. Just to a far lesser degree. Roaming is not a bad thing but it needs to have drawbacks (so does Jungling while we are at it). On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
also don't be ridiculous. no one uses alistar to backdoor at any sort of competent level of play. his passive was great for straight pushing, not BDing. he had the ability like no other melee champ in the game to run up to a tower that's defended by 5 people and do significant damage to it while his ranged carries hammered on it from behind. do you ignore alistar and try to stop the carries? ok alistar will just do 1/10th of your tower's life per hit for the next 6 seconds OR aoe disable your team when you run by him. do you focus alistar? okay he takes no damage and his carries wail on the tower. with his passive changed he's got no incentive to run up to the tower and create that issue. no ability to split push without building AD/AS. no ability to snipe a low HP tower, etc etc etc. his skillset was FAR from a "silly specialized backdoor" strat Yes, the kind of gameplay the old passive promoted was either utterly useless or stupid when it worked. Thats why replacing it was a big buff. Reading comprehension. 700 elo player post inb4warnedfortellingthetruth no need to even respond to this. anyone who's played more than normal games can point out how dumb this post is User was temp banned for this post.
Damn Gtr, I know you are a good player, but you don't need to be so damn rude. Every player is entitled to his/her own opinion, right or wrong.
Anyways, I gotta say I am happy with the stun change on Alistar. It was completely stupid to be stunned for two full seconds at low level, and if you got stuck near an Ali as you were running, there was very little chance you would survive.
Sad that theres going to be no more Denyplank though.
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Everyone being strong based on resource aquisition doesn't make the game more of a team game. It makes the game more of a farm before being able to do anything interesting game, with the exact same amount of "team" in it as having more heroes dependent on plays made. (Actually that would put the game much more into the solo laners' hands, and make it less of a team game by your criteria?) Besides, LoL doesn't have any carries with good enough scaling to make that hyperbole of yours even a remotely feasible outcome of more item indepence.
It's not like item independent characters tend to have that big of an impact in the late game, if they don't make a difference earlier - e.g. Alistar can make decent use of farm (as an aside, Ap cow - holy cow!), and is set back in the late game, if he roamed too much ineffectively. I think it's healthy for the game to have characters capable of upsetting the balance of who-farms-best. Maybe you think guitar was saying we need to make item independent heroes more independent?
I also think Alistar is a decently balanced dude of roaming, compared to like Shaco, who really becomes the sole person in charge of the game, with his rape ass or fail composition.
The problem with roamers, I feel, is that there are not enough effective ones, so it's possible to end up with a farm dependent team, while the enemy can make decisive plays earlier, and with greater freedom. Easily fixed by having some more capable, less item dependent champions, imoimoimo.
Also, jungling does have it's drawbacks, kinda, but with the way buffs are set up in this game, junglers are pretty mandatory.
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On April 27 2011 07:21 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
why do you want MORE instances where you *have* to have items to be effective in this game? that's one of the worst parts of LoL - item dependence. the way that AP scaling effects the game is that they have to make every champ scale with AP to stick with the heavy hitters. there were like 2 champs in this game that could build anything and still be effective. making ali more item dependent is really going to hurt his upper level play imo imo imo. why do you WANT more champs that are farm dependent. are you really going to want to give your farm to an alistar now as a carry? sure he needs it more, but that doesn't mean you need it less.
Because everyone being strong based on resource aquisition (Gold XP) makes LoL a Teamgame and not 1 carry with 4 people that babysitt more or less directly to let that carry get his farm. AP is the reason everyone has a reasonable powercurve and can contribute based on "farm". EVERYONE is farm dependent and that is good for the game. Not having gold and XP needs to be a drawback. It works if your champ goes for a "support" build but you certainly won´t be usefull isolated like that. The degree of item and level independence alistar had and still has makes him the god-king of roaming. Just to a far lesser degree. Roaming is not a bad thing but it needs to have drawbacks (so does Jungling while we are at it). Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
also don't be ridiculous. no one uses alistar to backdoor at any sort of competent level of play. his passive was great for straight pushing, not BDing. he had the ability like no other melee champ in the game to run up to a tower that's defended by 5 people and do significant damage to it while his ranged carries hammered on it from behind. do you ignore alistar and try to stop the carries? ok alistar will just do 1/10th of your tower's life per hit for the next 6 seconds OR aoe disable your team when you run by him. do you focus alistar? okay he takes no damage and his carries wail on the tower. with his passive changed he's got no incentive to run up to the tower and create that issue. no ability to split push without building AD/AS. no ability to snipe a low HP tower, etc etc etc. his skillset was FAR from a "silly specialized backdoor" strat Yes, the kind of gameplay the old passive promoted was either utterly useless or stupid when it worked. Thats why replacing it was a big buff. Reading comprehension.
I'm guessing you've never actually played with good support champs?
Tons of champs are farm-independent. Off the top of my head I can name Janna, Alistar, Taric (sometimes) Blitzcrank (sometimes)
What makes a good support champ is the fact that they're farm independent. Roaming already does have drawbacks. The lack of experience is a pretty big one -.-
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New cow can take wraiths and wolves sooo easily.
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EPT
