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[Discussion] Patch Notes - Page 81

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arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
April 26 2011 16:39 GMT
#1601
On April 26 2011 23:39 57 Corvette wrote:
We need eitheer A. Better Galio skin or B. A Taric skin that doesn't make him look gay.

Seriously. Both of these characters' skins are horrible.

Taric
not looking gay
how is this possible?

Id love to see a workout Taric skin though..with this Shin Sweater things that people wear
would like soooo fabulous
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
April 26 2011 17:12 GMT
#1602
On April 26 2011 16:06 scintilliaSD wrote:
You can get an auto while walking through the enemy champ easily.


On April 26 2011 17:06 BlackPaladin wrote:
Trample simply makes me think of an ultralisk. o_o

And yeah with you being able to walk through creeps I'm sure you can fit in a single auto in there. So you only lose ~20 damage on your burst.


ITT: people who don't realize how significant 0.5 seconds is to alistar's gank.


On April 26 2011 23:19 Zato-1 wrote:
WTF are you smoking. +5 MS is great on any champion, especially one who spends half the game walking around while roaming.

On a side note, Ryze nerf was pretty significant.


I'm not going to say +5 MS is a bad thing, +ANY MS is a good thing, but to say it's significant is a mistake. it comes out to like a 1.3% speed boost if you already have ali optimized for speed (MS quints and masteries, boots first opening), which all good alistar players do. So it's slightly worse than an extra MS quint. I guess this means you can swap out an MS quint for an HP quint to make up for the HP they took away from him - oh wait, his HP was decreased by 30 and HP quints only give 26 HP.

So in the alistar gets -0.2% MS and -4 base HP from this patch
real buff


On April 26 2011 22:32 Unentschieden wrote:
Alistars roaming and very earlygame was definetly nerfed (propably still the best though). I like that he actually needs and utilises gold and XP now. Trample definetly is a buff outside of silly specialized backdooring builds.


why do you want MORE instances where you *have* to have items to be effective in this game? that's one of the worst parts of LoL - item dependence. the way that AP scaling effects the game is that they have to make every champ scale with AP to stick with the heavy hitters. there were like 2 champs in this game that could build anything and still be effective. making ali more item dependent is really going to hurt his upper level play imo imo imo. why do you WANT more champs that are farm dependent. are you really going to want to give your farm to an alistar now as a carry? sure he needs it more, but that doesn't mean you need it less.

also don't be ridiculous. no one uses alistar to backdoor at any sort of competent level of play. his passive was great for straight pushing, not BDing. he had the ability like no other melee champ in the game to run up to a tower that's defended by 5 people and do significant damage to it while his ranged carries hammered on it from behind. do you ignore alistar and try to stop the carries? ok alistar will just do 1/10th of your tower's life per hit for the next 6 seconds OR aoe disable your team when you run by him. do you focus alistar? okay he takes no damage and his carries wail on the tower. with his passive changed he's got no incentive to run up to the tower and create that issue. no ability to split push without building AD/AS. no ability to snipe a low HP tower, etc etc etc. his skillset was FAR from a "silly specialized backdoor" strat
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
April 26 2011 17:34 GMT
#1603
REep had a fairly interesting post theorycrafting that solotop ap cow is going to be the new op tanky dps.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
April 26 2011 17:37 GMT
#1604
On April 27 2011 01:33 Shikyo wrote:
The ryze nerf isn't enough but it clearly is a step in the right direction. 800 mana at lvl 1 was 80 bonus dmg, now it's only 64. Pretty significant nerf in the lategame as well. Of course the range is the main problem with the skill, but it's a step in the right direction.


800 mana at level 1 is impossible without mana reds/yellows which in turn makes him not take MPen reds and actually do less damage. Yellows give only 50 mana so flat mana regen is better.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
April 26 2011 17:50 GMT
#1605
On April 27 2011 02:37 BluzMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 01:33 Shikyo wrote:
The ryze nerf isn't enough but it clearly is a step in the right direction. 800 mana at lvl 1 was 80 bonus dmg, now it's only 64. Pretty significant nerf in the lategame as well. Of course the range is the main problem with the skill, but it's a step in the right direction.


800 mana at level 1 is impossible without mana reds/yellows which in turn makes him not take MPen reds and actually do less damage. Yellows give only 50 mana so flat mana regen is better.

Flat mana regen definitely isn't better.

Ryze with mana crystal has 505 base mana. Add 9x 11.25 for Glyphs, 9x 6.89 for seals, and 3x 37.5 for Quints and the mana mastery, and you'll be at 796.

I guess that's not exactly 800 but who cares. You don't need to go for mana reds.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
April 26 2011 17:50 GMT
#1606
Just armor yellows. Mana regen real dumb on champs that get an early cata.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
April 26 2011 18:02 GMT
#1607
It's been a while since I've seen any high Elo players playing Ryze with mana runes at all. I think I've seen more than a few players going with pure defensive runepages (e.g. Jiji uses MPen marks, Armor seals, flat MR glyphs, and flat MR or Armor quints).
Moderator
Parametric
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1261 Posts
April 26 2011 18:02 GMT
#1608
On April 27 2011 00:19 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 23:54 Chrispy wrote:
On April 26 2011 23:49 freelander wrote:
On April 26 2011 23:46 Chrispy wrote:
I'm gonna goof around with Hybrid Ezreal and see how that works out.
Not sure on these GP changes at all really. I was like "whaaaaaat?" when I saw that they had actually DECREASED the amount of gold parrrley gave (I assumed when Phreak said changed he meant it would be increased) but whatever. I guess with the lower CD and what not it's all the more reason to go double philo on GP. In regards to his ult I think it'll just be even better to have that little sad mummy on your team.
And Xin Zhao huehueh.

My three favourite heroes to play all got buffed this patch. Huehueheu. o/ thanks Riot.



who is the third?
i dont think anyone else got buffs besides XZ and ezreal


Ehhh I kind of consider this GP change a buff? Maybe? Sorta? IDK I mean, maybe I'm putting too much faith in Riot here but his ult change better be good. It better be like "Oh god, I'm standing in GP's mini circle and I'm MELTING!!!!!!!!!"

dude it didn't kill blue wraith in the spotlight


I think that's about right for a global ult that's guaranteed to slow, from the looks of it it did ~450 dmg to a single target.

In team fights that's going to be deadly especially in cramped spaces. But then again i'm biased after being matched against GP + malph/soraka lanes 1v2 top one too many times; i'm secretly hoping he's nerfed into the goddamn ground.
Crispy Bacon craving overload.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
April 26 2011 18:03 GMT
#1609
On April 27 2011 02:50 HazMat wrote:
Just armor yellows. Mana regen real dumb on champs that get an early cata.


Wrong for Ryze. Scaling mana regen is trash on him, but flat is much better than 50 extra mana. Ryze can run out of mana easily in hard lanes much earlier than he gets his cata, regen helps with that. Armor is viable too, but from my experience, regen is better. Flat mana yellow complete trash, outdone by any other runes. Still 704 mana.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
April 26 2011 18:07 GMT
#1610
Hp/level. You end up getting nutty amounts of armour and magic resist but not too much HP so the extra 175 really boosts the good ol' EHP.
Retvrn to Forvms
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
April 26 2011 18:41 GMT
#1611
I guess, though armor yellows much better for early to mid game when all you've got is cata tear boots.
Dunno how people run out of mana on ryze though. do you W creeps?
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
April 26 2011 18:46 GMT
#1612
On April 27 2011 02:12 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 16:06 scintilliaSD wrote:
You can get an auto while walking through the enemy champ easily.


Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 17:06 BlackPaladin wrote:
Trample simply makes me think of an ultralisk. o_o

And yeah with you being able to walk through creeps I'm sure you can fit in a single auto in there. So you only lose ~20 damage on your burst.


ITT: people who don't realize how significant 0.5 seconds is to alistar's gank.


Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 23:19 Zato-1 wrote:
WTF are you smoking. +5 MS is great on any champion, especially one who spends half the game walking around while roaming.

On a side note, Ryze nerf was pretty significant.


I'm not going to say +5 MS is a bad thing, +ANY MS is a good thing, but to say it's significant is a mistake. it comes out to like a 1.3% speed boost if you already have ali optimized for speed (MS quints and masteries, boots first opening), which all good alistar players do. So it's slightly worse than an extra MS quint. I guess this means you can swap out an MS quint for an HP quint to make up for the HP they took away from him - oh wait, his HP was decreased by 30 and HP quints only give 26 HP.

So in the alistar gets -0.2% MS and -4 base HP from this patch
real buff


Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 22:32 Unentschieden wrote:
Alistars roaming and very earlygame was definetly nerfed (propably still the best though). I like that he actually needs and utilises gold and XP now. Trample definetly is a buff outside of silly specialized backdooring builds.


why do you want MORE instances where you *have* to have items to be effective in this game? that's one of the worst parts of LoL - item dependence. the way that AP scaling effects the game is that they have to make every champ scale with AP to stick with the heavy hitters. there were like 2 champs in this game that could build anything and still be effective. making ali more item dependent is really going to hurt his upper level play imo imo imo. why do you WANT more champs that are farm dependent. are you really going to want to give your farm to an alistar now as a carry? sure he needs it more, but that doesn't mean you need it less.

also don't be ridiculous. no one uses alistar to backdoor at any sort of competent level of play. his passive was great for straight pushing, not BDing. he had the ability like no other melee champ in the game to run up to a tower that's defended by 5 people and do significant damage to it while his ranged carries hammered on it from behind. do you ignore alistar and try to stop the carries? ok alistar will just do 1/10th of your tower's life per hit for the next 6 seconds OR aoe disable your team when you run by him. do you focus alistar? okay he takes no damage and his carries wail on the tower. with his passive changed he's got no incentive to run up to the tower and create that issue. no ability to split push without building AD/AS. no ability to snipe a low HP tower, etc etc etc. his skillset was FAR from a "silly specialized backdoor" strat

hi im 2k elo and i see ali backdoor all the time
:D
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 19:31:46
April 26 2011 19:28 GMT
#1613
So actually playing Alistar in a game I note:

good thing: thanks to no-collision he can pretty much lineup the perfect headbutt and still get autoattacks in even with half a second off the stun.

bad thing: rumble KILLED headbutt into stun combo. Q,Q

good thing: you can headbutt a minion as a pseudo flash to get a pulverize. Together with mobility boots this make avoiding an alistar gank much harder than before even if his flash is on cd.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
April 26 2011 19:29 GMT
#1614
On April 27 2011 03:41 HazMat wrote:
I guess, though armor yellows much better for early to mid game when all you've got is cata tear boots.
Dunno how people run out of mana on ryze though. do you W creeps?


Someone with cloth+5 or even regrowth pendant with some innate regen (half good solos have that) and you run oom before you can drive them away from your lane. 704 mana is 9.5xQ and it leaves you with only meditation for regen. If you use W you run oom even faster with less damage done overall. It's a matter of preference, you can just choose to not harass at all in those lanes, but then again, why go flat mana in that case?

Imagine you face a Cho'gath in lane. By levels 3-4 you run oom and he's still alive and your armor runes have done nothing. If you don't run oom then you didn't harass and your flat mana did nothing. Lose-lose. Flat mana regen is good on Ryze. Getting more flat mana from yellows seems bad because it's not stat-efficient runing, it's only 60 more mana (6 damage, with MR its 5). Certainly you don't want regen in lanes that die before you run oom, but there are actually lanes who can ignore all your damage and laugh at you.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
April 26 2011 19:32 GMT
#1615
On April 27 2011 03:03 BluzMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 02:50 HazMat wrote:
Just armor yellows. Mana regen real dumb on champs that get an early cata.


Wrong for Ryze. Scaling mana regen is trash on him, but flat is much better than 50 extra mana. Ryze can run out of mana easily in hard lanes much earlier than he gets his cata, regen helps with that. Armor is viable too, but from my experience, regen is better. Flat mana yellow complete trash, outdone by any other runes. Still 704 mana.

What, you're going to run out of mana with 800 mana at lvl 1, gaining more every level, and 3.9/5 flat mana regen that's going to be completely useless later on is supposed to prevent that? Ok...
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
April 26 2011 19:34 GMT
#1616
I use scaling mana or scaling HP for ryze. Seems like the best bang for buck.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 20:01:02
April 26 2011 20:00 GMT
#1617
On April 27 2011 04:29 BluzMan wrote:
Imagine you face a Cho'gath in lane. By levels 3-4 you run oom and he's still alive and your armor runes have done nothing. If you don't run oom then you didn't harass and your flat mana did nothing. Lose-lose. Flat mana regen is good on Ryze. Getting more flat mana from yellows seems bad because it's not stat-efficient runing, it's only 60 more mana (6 damage, with MR its 5). Certainly you don't want regen in lanes that die before you run oom, but there are actually lanes who can ignore all your damage and laugh at you.

And a lot of those lanes can't deny YOUR farm either. So just rune defensively so you don't die, and win the lane after 6 off the back of your Cata sustainability.
Moderator
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
April 26 2011 20:05 GMT
#1618
Ryze: Magic Pen Red, HP/Level Yellow, Mana/Level Blues. Quints are flexible. MS, Mana/Level, Magic Pen.

sxspp goes Mana/Level Quints.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
rigwarl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States540 Posts
April 26 2011 20:55 GMT
#1619
Well obviously Alistar got nerfed, he was banned/picked in like more than half the games
dismiss
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom3341 Posts
April 26 2011 21:02 GMT
#1620
Caitlynn is retarded good now, probably Corki/Ashe level.T_T
Failure to improve posting standards will result in a lengthy ban. I <crms_> !dumb <GeoffAnderson> crmsdota <crms_> damnit
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