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On March 31 2011 03:18 Mogwai wrote:
yea, I dunno, I'm not the one to ask about Pantheon atm, I think the character is complete and utter trash after the last round of nerfs and the broader metagame shifts. I still build him Q > W with 1 point in E when I actually get drunk enough to think it's a good idea to play him.
Thats exactly how I play him. And I have no problems. Besides certain matchups but w/e.
Just like how I played pre buff panth.......
Too bad I don't drink lol.
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Well, if soroka is in dual lane against burst she is gonna die if she does get hit by the burst. But, as she doesn't need the farm she will be further back and can protect her lane partner with heal and +amour.
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On March 30 2011 21:56 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 21:11 spinesheath wrote:On March 30 2011 20:44 Iplaythings wrote:
I think what makes people afraid of the AS is that the stat itself is multiplacitive ( correct me if spelled wrong lol) so it will get better the more AS you have afaik.
Could be wrong though, but that seems like the only reason why people would be freaking out You're wrong, it's additive. All the ASpd is based off the lvl 0 base ASpd too. Btw, why doesn't Riot fix the tooltip is beyond my understanding. It deceptively displays 0.625 as base AS for any champion which is wrong.
IIRC it doesn't for annie 
On March 30 2011 23:19 Goshawk. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 22:52 Slayer91 wrote:
You people are REALLY underestimating soraka. Like, aside from being sick in lane (ever tried like, soraka veigar with someone good at last hitting? +1000 ap never oom), her mid/lategame and onwards are actually retarded if you get any bit of CDR or AP. You literally can go from an even game to a game where nobody dies for 5 minutes until end because you just heal people once you get into 1 advantageous fight you just keep everyone alive and it snowballs.
Hell, I was trolling some poppy with TL the other day in normals and soraka kept healing the ppl Iwas diving 3 towers so I tried to ulti her and finish her and even though my Q did like 1/4 of her HP she kept damn healing and running and I couldn't finish her with ult+silence+W spam with mass armour.
Soraka and zilean scale by far the best of the supports. If you doubt the zilean one check out regi's zilean in the recent TSM vs CLG where he goes mid, having a 0.9 ap, really high base damage, double casting 100% AoE is insane in teamfights. It seems like he's just better than annie sometimes with his ultimate+slow along with a similar damage output.
Karma seems pretty decent in a solo lane with lots of AP but is really hard to get used to and I haven't tested enough. She seems to do almost no damage played as a support and unless her lane is really good it seems not worth it. It's kinda like kayle support you technically support your teammates but its better if you get a solo lane. I agree that soroka is great, especially when you have team standoffs when pushing towers. She keeps her team at full hp np. Amazing in lane ofc. When regi is playing zilean solo mid, zilean is no longer taking a support role. :p
Why are you calling her soroka?
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Because I suck at spelling maybe. -_- Also the difference in pronunciation is very small.
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On March 31 2011 02:17 Mogwai wrote:
well then you're crazy. 280 + (0.8 AP Ratio) AoE damage around the teammate they're focusing is fucking nuts. It's like donating a Sion Shield that deals its damage whether it gets popped or not with slightly worse scaling. I would say at least 80% of my mantras are spent on her shield. Post deathcap, you're generally giving someone a 500-600 damage shield and AoE nuking for the same amount, it's really absurd.
EDIT: stop putting your shield on your ranged carry then. karma isn't janna, her skillset is complete ass for protecting a ranged carry. her skillset is designed to turn your tanky damage dealer into a god who kills everything with your help.
280 AoE damage is significant, as is Karma's damage in general. But unless you farm damage becomes weaker and weaker as the game goes on. Supports who babysit and leave CS to other champions can't rely on damage late game to be useful, they need utility.
That's why Karma has to farm, and that's why she's commonly viewed as the worst support. It's not that her damage isn't useful or that her laning isn't strong, it's that it's simply better in most cases to have a support who doesn't need to farm, or a different support who does.
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If you wanna have a good idea of my benchmarks with support-karma (requires around 20cs by 11 minutes if no objectives are taken)
3 avarice quints
Start 1 fairy charm, 2 health potions and 1 mana potion OR 1 ward
Take 7 or 8 cs by level 5 (~5 minutes); it's important to recall to buy before the lane hits level 6
Buy philostone
Take a total of 20 cs by ~11 minutes
Buy heart of gold
Cut a lot more cs if your team is getting a dragon or a tower, or you pick up assist gold.
You'll generate gold for boots after that within a couple of minutes
Buy a second heart of gold if you can afford it by 15 minutes, otherwise go to merc treads/CDR boots
At some point in the game your carries have gotten their cores and you should be getting a few creepwaves to catch up in levels as well as gold. Buy spirit visage or if your team is really dominating then pick up NLR for deathcap.
When it comes to late-game utility, you have to realize that if you mantra Karma's W you're at LEAST giving a 40% movespeed boost to two members on your team (you and whoever you teather), and in addition giving that movespeed boost to anyone else on your team who is in line of the teather AND a -40% movespeed reduction to enemies. You probably don't see this being used properly a lot but the potential is hella broken if you use it right.
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I've been playing karma bot lane and taking half the farm and going tears (works MUCH better than philo stone, philo stone isn't that good at all, you can spam abilities in lane real hard with tears) --> CDR boots-->deathcap and then get 1 kindle gem or bluepot for 40% CDR and thats your core. You are pretty useless without farm except for W but you can teamfight a lot like vlad with mass aoe except you heal other people.
Basically if you get tears CDR boots and deathcap you don't need too much else and you start dominating pretty hard. You've got solid aoe healing and in teamfights your AoE dmg shield and W is amazing.
-I use W mostly as a slow, and like cast it on someone at the back and make sure I drag it through the guys in the front (it has huge range) to deal damage and slow them, of course allies get extra speed.
-I use mantras all on soul shield except out of fights where I use it on Q to heal people.
-Q just standard AoE spell.
You are deceptively tanky even with such a squishy item set up because of your passive+shield+heal.
BTW:
Mantra Q+use normal E if you want healing
Mantra E+use normal Q if you want damage.
I find normally mantra E+Q is much better since it does a lot more damage than what you miss out on healing, since it has a bigger aoe and its mostly the guy getting focused by their team.
I haven't used much mantra W yet but obviously when chasing its good. You can use it on them and have the ally run through it for bonus speed.
I find the healing on her Q isn't really that amazing in general, but still better than tarics, and alistars.
Her lane is basically AoE them while shielding your ally. Something like renektron/karma or garen/karma will actually crush really hard because of the amount of Aoe damage.
I go Q-->E E>Q>W in general, but in lane you take one point in W around level 3-4 and level more Q if you need more healing. I am still noob at preemptively using sheilds because I don't play janna and love using them to blow up the other guys.
She's not as bad as people think she's really hard to play, relies on level 13+40% CDR before she can start spamming mantra, and definitely needs some AP if you want to deal a lot of damage. Of course if you want to play support you still have a strong lane and some AoE damage, it just doesn't feel beastly.
I don't like her as an aegis carrier compared to a tank. She needs tears/CDR/AP so badly. Soul shroud is good on her.
I'm running:
mpen red
mp5 flat seals (for lane, not sure if needed, might go back to armour)
cdr/lvl blues (you get enough CDR to be maxed with CDR boots and bluepot/kindlegem at around 13, which is prefect because thats the final level up of your R)
hp quints, maybe take 3 g/5 if you are confident and supporting for sure.
Starting dorans ring, seems to make sense since you don't want to be too squishy.
She feels a lot like zilean in the champions you protect. For example if you go renektron karma you have a beastly lane and in teamfights he's doing sick damage and you're shielding him and doing even more damage. You can also slow the people around him while speeding him up. She scales well with AP like zilean. You could really view her as just a hard to play zilean because she has the double AoE+protect 1 teammate+speed/slow.
Janna and soraka are obviously the ones you want to protect a ranged carry.
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Why are you calling her soroka?
I knew a guy whose last name was Soroka once.
Dated my fiancee before me.
:D
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United States47024 Posts
I personally strongly dislike half-farm splits. With the exception of a few specific lane partners, IMO 100-0 farm splitting produces superior results with most conceivable bot lane setups.
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I didn't say it was optimal, but when you're practicing normals with sometimes some of the lesser skilled TL'ers who aren't the best at last hitting, I take many farm.
Plus I'm a farm whore in general.
I was playing a lot with blitz and gragas (who are bad at farming except gragas Q) anyway. Poppy is another one who doesn't need all the farm.
Karma+any tank should be a good combo though. I want to try Nasus/Karma since I want to try more Nasus duo lane but unfortunately I'm the only good Nasus and Karma player I know on EU. 
(Nasus gets aegis, boots, sheen. His Q farm is priority. Karma goes Tears, boots, deathcap, then she can start farming and just ward or something)
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Comedy option: Karma/Taric duo lane with Taric roaming occasionally.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Garen's ability actually super viable.
Man Drop. LOL.
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Yordle saddle <3
also I would say that is a buff to sona, now actually having to have skill to play her
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Baa?21245 Posts
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HUGE Cho'Gath! Om nom nom nom nom!
It'd almost be worth not being able to hide in bushes anymore.
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Anyone have legitimate patch notes anywhere? :3
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On April 01 2011 22:08 -orb- wrote:
Anyone have legitimate patch notes anywhere? :3
All they did was add lee-sin, his 2 skins, and the corki riding urf skin
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The corki-riding urf skin isn't purchaseable, it's just a splash art.
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EPT
