EPT[Discussion] Patch Notes - Page 65
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Morphx2
147 Posts
On March 30 2011 10:38 TheYango wrote: You got 550+ AP on her, which could have translated into a LOT of farm on someone else. You're really making big presumptions saying that without you, the team would have lost, because if you didn't have those CS/kills, your carries would do much more damage, and your tanks would be much tankier. it was a long game. i was 4-3-15 204 minions. I saved many lives that game. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 30 2011 10:47 Juicyfruit wrote: Zilean and Janna definitely better. I don't think Taric's better than Karma in a lot of cases at all. Soraka isn't arguably better in a lot of cases. I'm willing to argue that in any case where you want a zero-cs champion both Taric and Soraka will be better than Karma. That's a lot of cases. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
o_O | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On March 30 2011 12:45 Seuss wrote: I'm willing to argue that in any case where you want a zero-cs champion both Taric and Soraka will be better than Karma. That's a lot of cases. I'm definitely willing to argue the contrary. They're not always better than Karma. In terms of keeping teammates alive through burst, Karma's shield + heal together is stronger than non-AP taric's heal. Taric's strength is his one stun, and otherwise good for tower pushing. However, there are certain matchups where taric's stun isn't really that gamebreaking because you already have sufficient cc and reach. Karma's a stronger laner than Taric. Taric is a huge hit-or-miss in lane. If he faces a combination that's stronger than his, he's completely dead weight. Taric's no babysitter for a carry, he's more like a lane dominator and a roamer. You cannot guarantee that your lanemate will get good farm unless you're actively oppressing the lane with your stun combo. Soraka provides 0 damage and does absolutely nothing to lessen the burden from tanks/carries. Karma with 2 heart of golds can actually take a punch and she invariably heals herself when she heals allies. You can build heart of gold on soraka as well but she's still paper because of her abysmal base stats and the fact that her heal isn't going to help herself at all. Wish does, but at no point does the enemy team have to target soraka until they have to kill her. Karma will spam 2 or 3 of those big AoE cones if you ignore her, and has 2 other AoE spells on-hold as well. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On March 30 2011 13:02 -orb- wrote: Anyone know what the meaning of the "Slow Stacking Penalty" change is for turrets? o_O That's not a change to turrets, it's a change to the mechanics governing the stacking of movement slowing effects. Previously, if I applied a 30% slow followed by a 40% slow, the strongest slow would be applied fully and any further slows would be reduced by 50% before being stacked multiplicatively: 30% slow gets cut in half to 15%, and final movespeed is 1*0.6*0.85 = 51% After this change, slows after the strongest effect will instead instead be reduced by 65%, so in the same example, the strongest slow effect (40%) still gets applied fully, while all other slow effects (one 30% slow) get reduced by 65% (to ~10%) before being stacked multiplicatively: Final movespeed is 1*0.6*0.9 = 54% This system of stacking slow effects was intruduced in patch 1.0.0.112, and the functionality of the system was explained by the dev team then. Sources: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=6643329#post6643329 http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=6659146#post6659146 http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=580915&page=2#post6994285 | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 30 2011 13:21 Juicyfruit wrote: I'm definitely willing to argue the contrary. They're not always better than Karma. In terms of keeping teammates alive through burst, Karma's shield + heal together is stronger than non-AP taric's heal. Taric's strength is his one stun, and otherwise good for tower pushing. However, there are certain matchups where taric's stun isn't really that gamebreaking because you already have sufficient cc and reach. Karma's a stronger laner than Taric. Taric is a huge hit-or-miss in lane. If he faces a combination that's stronger than his, he's completely dead weight. Taric's no babysitter for a carry, he's more like a lane dominator and a roamer. You cannot guarantee that your lanemate will get good farm unless you're actively oppressing the lane with your stun combo. Soraka provides 0 damage and does absolutely nothing to lessen the burden from tanks/carries. Karma with 2 heart of golds can actually take a punch and she invariably heals herself when she heals allies. You can build heart of gold on soraka as well but she's still paper because of her abysmal base stats and the fact that her heal isn't going to help herself at all. Wish does, but at no point does the enemy team have to target soraka until they have to kill her. Karma will spam 2 or 3 of those big AoE cones if you ignore her, and has 2 other AoE spells on-hold as well. Taric can prevent as much damage with his stun as Karma prevents with her shield, which becomes more and more true as the game progresses and enemy damage increases. There is no such thing as too much CC; Taric's stun doesn't have to be "gamebreaking" to be more useful than what Karma provides. While Karma is a strong laner she can also be hit or miss, doubly so in that she must dominate her lane to be worth her spot in a team composition as her mid game is almost completely inferior to Taric or Soraka's. If Taric loses his lane it obviously impacts his carry as well, but he himself doesn't suffer for it. I don't find Karma's damage to be compelling because she has practically into the enemy team to use it effectively. Her only "safe" AoE precludes her from healing at all. It's not a big deal to focus her down when she can't hang out in the back and still be a significant threat. You also can't have two other AoE spells on hold if you're healing your team because you'll be blowing both your shield and your mantra on healing if it's necessary, and if it isn't necessary you either aren't team fighting or you could be building Tiamat and winning. The bottom line is that Karma's healing isn't bad, but to do significant damage she precludes her healing and puts herself in huge amounts of danger. At the same time she doesn't bring any utility to a fight at all. No silence, no stun, no steroids, no auras, nothing. Those are in many ways more important than healing in team fights. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Not biased in any way because the same is true for Karma. She's a situational pick. If the game isn't going in a way that lets you consistently get good positioning on heavenly wave then her potential is being subdued as well. I would never say that it puts her in "danger" though because it's very difficult to focus down a karma, and even with no farm she really has no difficulty in achieving sufficient beef via 2 HoG, merc tread and spirit visage. Again,as for using mantra on Q vs E, the good thing about it is that you have the versatility of going for the overall more beneficial one. If you have a brawler in the middle of 4 enemies, just R->E for instant 800 overall damage on the enemy team. If you have a angle to hit Q on 3 allies and 2 enemies, R->Q for a BIG swing in numbers. Karma is all about the number swing. That's what she does, since she's got almost no utility. If the enemy team has channeling spells you obviously never pick Karma over taric/soraka. That much is obvious. Also, the reason I said that Taric sucks if he's not winning is lane is because there's no "babysitting" for him if he's not dominating his lane. Karma can just fall back to shield spam for the carry to afk farm with some heals tossed in there. Taric can't support his lane partner without having the upper hand simply because that's how his champ works. Also, contrary to you I find her midgame to be very powerful because that's the point where she's running around with boots, a heart of gold or 2, and is basically spamming 5 second Q's without worrying about dying too fast. Damage in a cone is OP. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On March 30 2011 10:44 Zato-1 wrote: Janna and Taric are obviously better. Zilean and Sona are also better. Even Soraka is arguably better. I don't think she's underrated at all, she's just bad and at the bottom of the support champion barrel. Maybe she's better than Kayle? A kitten dies every time someone calls Kayle support. | ||
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
Juicyfruit - you're comparing best case to worst case. 4 guys huggin your brawler vs everyone plays perfectly with awesome counterstunpicking against taric. yeah. that's ridiculous. I don't get the OMG CAITLYN either. 0.4% AS per level is like... 7.2% AS at lvl 18. is that all that much really? the reason she sucked was because she had no steroid right? even though she can maintain range, she is still nothing better than an AD nuker because of her lack of any steriods that could multiply her dps, and the cast time on her Q preventing it from working as a dps increase like volley. She never really hit hard enough to kill anything beefy late game, which meant she was easily kept out of the fight. she still fulfills that early game lane dominance into mid game push stuff, but improvements to her AS scaling didn't buff that. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
Could be wrong though, but that seems like the only reason why people would be freaking out | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On March 30 2011 20:44 Iplaythings wrote: I think what makes people afraid of the AS is that the stat itself is multiplacitive ( correct me if spelled wrong lol) so it will get better the more AS you have afaik. Could be wrong though, but that seems like the only reason why people would be freaking out You're wrong, it's additive. All the ASpd is based off the lvl 0 base ASpd too. | ||
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mOnion
United States5660 Posts
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On March 30 2011 21:11 spinesheath wrote: You're wrong, it's additive. All the ASpd is based off the lvl 0 base ASpd too. Btw, why doesn't Riot fix the tooltip is beyond my understanding. It deceptively displays 0.625 as base AS for any champion which is wrong. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On March 30 2011 21:11 spinesheath wrote: You're wrong, it's additive. All the ASpd is based off the lvl 0 base ASpd too. As I said, I could be wrong (and I suck at mathcraft), but then I dont get why people wouldnt just be w/e with it. Im more worried 'bout galio, garen is still gonna me "meh" | ||
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
On March 30 2011 10:44 Zato-1 wrote: Janna and Taric are obviously better. Zilean and Sona are also better. Even Soraka is arguably better. I don't think she's underrated at all, she's just bad and at the bottom of the support champion barrel. Maybe she's better than Kayle? I can't believe soroka so low on your support teir list.  Fucking soroka heals everything in lane, so annoying. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On March 30 2011 22:00 Iplaythings wrote: As I said, I could be wrong (and I suck at mathcraft), but then I dont get why people wouldnt just be w/e with it. Because people just see the buff and go crazy. They don't really realize how much of a buff it is. | ||
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