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General Discussion/Off-topic - Page 518

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ArC_man
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States2798 Posts
March 24 2011 05:07 GMT
#10341
On March 24 2011 13:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bruta: 25 damage, 15 armor pen, 10% cdr
BF: 50 ad

You give up 25 damage for 15 armor pen, 10% cdr, and the ability to build the best melee dps item in the game. Seems fair to me.

With BF sword at that price, Black Cleaver and Bloodthirster would be the same price as Ghostblade. Would you consider those 3 items to be on the same level?

You're thinking about the game balance in a totally one dimensional way. If you make the best ranged DPS items cheaper, not only do you make ranged DPS stronger against tanky melee DPS but you also make them stronger against everything else in the game. Maybe you'll get less bitching from people play ranged DPS, but now you have to deal with all the QQ from the Janna with oracles and a dorans ring dying in 3 hits (but it's ok because no one cares about support players right?). Reducing the BF sword's price by 500 also isn't just a flat -500 on the price of IE/BC/BT, having that earlier BF sword makes gold easier to earn and most definitely increases your gold/min (easier to farm, easier to get kills). There are many other consequences other than the obvious "tanky DPS will be easier to kill if I got my items 500 gold faster".
mrgerry
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1508 Posts
March 24 2011 05:13 GMT
#10342
For anyone else watching jiji stream doesn't saintvicious sound like the biggest douchebag? -_-
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 24 2011 05:17 GMT
#10343
Ghostblade vs Cleaver vs BT on a melee carry? Even at worst, slight lean towards ghostblade even.

As for the rest of the points you bring up:

AP vs ranged ad= realistically no change. Casters scale faster in terms of damage, and burst casters will still be able to kill off ranged ad with a full cycle of skills.

AD vs Support: this is a slight issue, but when you think about it, if both teams ranged ad carry is now deadlier, the initial focus is going to be on killing off the carry, not the support. If janna is getting focused, then the other team will simply destroy the mis focusing team. If this really did prove to be a big problem, then buff health+ armor level gains for support characters.

Games end faster now anyway. Thats what riot wanted. Gaining gold faster is only going to contribute to riot's cause, and as I have already pointed out, defensive stats are much cheaper than offensive ones. Increasing gold gains will enable ranged ad to stay even with beefy dps.

The 500 reduction was just me throwing out a random number. Maybe the right number is 300 or 400, maybe its 600.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
March 24 2011 05:25 GMT
#10344
On March 24 2011 14:17 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ghostblade vs Cleaver vs BT on a melee carry? Even at worst, slight lean towards ghostblade even.

As for the rest of the points you bring up:

AP vs ranged ad= realistically no change. Casters scale faster in terms of damage, and burst casters will still be able to kill off ranged ad with a full cycle of skills.

AD vs Support: this is a slight issue, but when you think about it, if both teams ranged ad carry is now deadlier, the initial focus is going to be on killing off the carry, not the support. If janna is getting focused, then the other team will simply destroy the mis focusing team. If this really did prove to be a big problem, then buff health+ armor level gains for support characters.

Games end faster now anyway. Thats what riot wanted. Gaining gold faster is only going to contribute to riot's cause, and as I have already pointed out, defensive stats are much cheaper than offensive ones. Increasing gold gains will enable ranged ad to stay even with beefy dps.

The 500 reduction was just me throwing out a random number. Maybe the right number is 300 or 400, maybe its 600.


I'm good with theorycraft, terrible with mathcraft. Ghostblade, Cleaver, Last Whisper, what would be the best dual combo? :X I'm leaning towards GB/BC. Ghostblade active makes it a must buy.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Synthesis
Profile Joined August 2008
Canada167 Posts
March 24 2011 05:30 GMT
#10345
On March 24 2011 14:13 mrgerry wrote:
For anyone else watching jiji stream doesn't saintvicious sound like the biggest douchebag? -_-


Really annoying to hear Saint talk whenever I watch CLG.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 24 2011 05:38 GMT
#10346
On March 24 2011 14:25 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 14:17 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ghostblade vs Cleaver vs BT on a melee carry? Even between the three at worst, slight lean towards ghostblade even.

As for the rest of the points you bring up:

AP vs ranged ad= realistically no change. Casters scale faster in terms of damage, and burst casters will still be able to kill off ranged ad with a full cycle of skills.

AD vs Support: this is a slight issue, but when you think about it, if both teams ranged ad carry is now deadlier, the initial focus is going to be on killing off the carry, not the support. If janna is getting focused, then the other team will simply destroy the mis focusing team. If this really did prove to be a big problem, then buff health+ armor level gains for support characters.

Games end faster now anyway. Thats what riot wanted. Gaining gold faster is only going to contribute to riot's cause, and as I have already pointed out, defensive stats are much cheaper than offensive ones. Increasing gold gains will enable ranged ad to stay even with beefy dps.

The 500 reduction was just me throwing out a random number. Maybe the right number is 300 or 400, maybe its 600.


I'm good with theorycraft, terrible with mathcraft. Ghostblade, Cleaver, Last Whisper, what would be the best dual combo? :X I'm leaning towards GB/BC. Ghostblade active makes it a must buy.

I guess I was unclear. I was comparing ghostblade against cleaver and the BT in order to see which one a melee dps would get. My conclusion was that even if the cost of the BF items were reduced by 500, melee dps would still go with the Ghostblade.

Ranged dps on the other hand, would be able to get into the game faster because they can afford the items they NEED to get in order to be effective. Right now, by the time a ranged carry gets IE, the beefy dps will be so beefy the IE is already near useless.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
ArC_man
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States2798 Posts
March 24 2011 06:00 GMT
#10347
On March 24 2011 14:17 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ghostblade vs Cleaver vs BT on a melee carry? Even at worst, slight lean towards ghostblade even.

As for the rest of the points you bring up:

AP vs ranged ad= realistically no change. Casters scale faster in terms of damage, and burst casters will still be able to kill off ranged ad with a full cycle of skills.

AD vs Support: this is a slight issue, but when you think about it, if both teams ranged ad carry is now deadlier, the initial focus is going to be on killing off the carry, not the support. If janna is getting focused, then the other team will simply destroy the mis focusing team. If this really did prove to be a big problem, then buff health+ armor level gains for support characters.

Games end faster now anyway. Thats what riot wanted. Gaining gold faster is only going to contribute to riot's cause, and as I have already pointed out, defensive stats are much cheaper than offensive ones. Increasing gold gains will enable ranged ad to stay even with beefy dps.

The 500 reduction was just me throwing out a random number. Maybe the right number is 300 or 400, maybe its 600.

Who would you possibly buy Ghostblade on currently? Off the top of my head I can think of Yi, Trynd, Pirate, Pantheon, Xin, Nocturne, and Renekton. I would prefer to get a Black Cleaver/Bloodthirster for the same price (or a faster IE for Tyrnd/Pirate) on all of those heros with the exception of possibly Yi and Xin. Black Cleaver and Bloodthirster would be much better if they were that much cheaper.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 24 2011 06:18 GMT
#10348
Here is why you wouldnt: if a ranged ad carry has the same item as you, your fucked. Simple as that. GB lets you close the distance gap and actually fight. Without ghostblade, you have no shot at winning. Its the same circumstance as it is in the current game, but since ranged dps items take so long get, the only time you see this is late game.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
March 24 2011 07:08 GMT
#10349
Creep buff is fucking idiotic, makes it so that you can ace the other team however many times you want and still lose because unlike before you can't push out with 2 inhibitors down.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-24 07:27:26
March 24 2011 07:27 GMT
#10350
On March 24 2011 16:08 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Creep buff is fucking idiotic, makes it so that you can ace the other team however many times you want and still lose because unlike before you can't push out with 2 inhibitors down.


arent you like a month late
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-24 07:32:38
March 24 2011 07:32 GMT
#10351
On March 24 2011 16:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 16:08 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Creep buff is fucking idiotic, makes it so that you can ace the other team however many times you want and still lose because unlike before you can't push out with 2 inhibitors down.


arent you like a month late


Yes, but everyone has a breaking point of "when to complain b/c they are distressed about the situation." ^^
Yeah creeps are retarded. Losing an inhib is even more detrimental since creeps can so easily take down towers now.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
March 24 2011 07:40 GMT
#10352
I just find it funny Riot wanted to shorten average game lengths but I've played so many games lately where the team that lost inhibitors would literally win every team fight from that point on but can only do as much as defend with baron buff until the other team drags the game out long enough that they can just attack a bare nexus. It used to be that when you ace another team with inhibitors down you can actually let someone defend home while others bd'd towers. No idea what Riot was thinking.
Phantx
Profile Joined January 2011
Panama18 Posts
March 24 2011 07:45 GMT
#10353
Is this build still reliable for Urgot?

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/bruiseleet-urgot-53281
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
March 24 2011 07:53 GMT
#10354
Yes it is.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 24 2011 07:56 GMT
#10355
On March 24 2011 16:45 Phantx wrote:
Is this build still reliable for Urgot?

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/bruiseleet-urgot-53281

The items are roughly the same, but IMO follow SYDTKO/jiji's runes/masteries. Some of the shit Bruiseleet does with his runes/masteries makes no sense whatsoever (e.g. 21/7/2 with the 2 utility in Perseverance).
Moderator
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-24 08:06:27
March 24 2011 08:05 GMT
#10356
It's because with the mana from manamune he figures with SoS + perseverance he gets more slightly more regen/5. That's the logic behind it at least. Although Does MBR really work on urgot? :s I've never seen that ever, even from the bads in normal who think items like MBR are a godsend and you need to rush it everygame on every dps champion.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
locodoco
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1615 Posts
March 24 2011 09:25 GMT
#10357
quitting lol soon,if any1 knows any1 that wants to buy my account for say 1.5kish hit me up
i wish riot would give me better ping
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
March 24 2011 09:33 GMT
#10358
On March 24 2011 18:25 locodoco wrote:
quitting lol soon,if any1 knows any1 that wants to buy my account for say 1.5kish hit me up

God nooo, there goes one of my favorite streams.

Still would you continue playing if they fix ranged carrys?
In the woods, there lurks..
locodoco
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1615 Posts
March 24 2011 09:35 GMT
#10359
On March 24 2011 18:33 Iplaythings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 18:25 locodoco wrote:
quitting lol soon,if any1 knows any1 that wants to buy my account for say 1.5kish hit me up

God nooo, there goes one of my favorite streams.

Still would you continue playing if they fix ranged carrys?

depending on when korea server comes out,i might still play alot,if not ill focus on rl shit like getting ready for college,fixing shit up with my family and artschool and shit
either way i have little use for a usa account atm
i wish riot would give me better ping
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
March 24 2011 09:35 GMT
#10360
I've been thinking about doing the same rofl, maybe selling mine for 800 lol

Also, swiftness on carries is starting to be my go-to boots
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
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