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General Discussion Tracer Patch Set - Page 3
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 30 2016 02:41 karazax wrote: hotslogs depends on you uploading all your games, otherwise it's going to be inaccurate. I actually haven't upload majority of my games, like 95% of them were uploaded by one of the players from the games I've played. So you don't necessarily need to upload them but yeah all of them need to be there. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On April 30 2016 04:04 karazax wrote: Yeah but if you don't upload them yourself then it's quite possible some wins or losses are not uploaded by someone else and it will not be 100% accurate. Normally at high level HL there will always be 1 person who uploads the game. | ||
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
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GeneralSnoop
United States142 Posts
For example, the scout in TF2 is difficult to play because you have much lower health than the other classes, need to be up close to do decent damage, and your compensation is simply faster base movement and the ability to double jump. The scout cannot teleport!!! You have move in a way that is unpredictable, and continue aiming well despite jumping all around. If you mess up, you die, you cannot blink/recall/use any kind of 'burst movement' to get away. Tracer throws all of that out the window. You have comparable health to other assassins (I think people have said here that it is the same health as valla), you don't have to aim or even studder-step, and you can engage and disengage at will. You just click on a a guy and blink around. It is impossible to predict you or make a great play with a skill shot because you literally teleport, and with the amount of charges you get and the cooldowns on blink and recall you should never really be without one. If tracers mobility were recall on 24 second cooldown and 200% movement speed(subject to number tweaks obviously) at all times, she could be difficult to play. As of now she is the easiest hero to play. No positioning needed, cannot be taken advantage of, and pretty much only counter is point and click abilities. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
The thing is though, counter play is harder against blinks. Its actually easier to predict, but requires alot of specialized training to hit. While a faster moving target just needs a few adjustments from the usual. Also this is a moba and tracer is designed to be a get in get out character. A perma speed buffed character would be a dance around and constantly hit your opponent character. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
I'm seriously 1v5ing people in HL on Sonya. No Hero counters her, not even Tracer. Wtf. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On May 01 2016 07:55 SC2John wrote: Did Sonya get better at some point? Why is she so good? O.O I'm seriously 1v5ing people in HL on Sonya. No Hero counters her, not even Tracer. Wtf. She keeps getting nerfed  but yeah still a beast, especially in HL since teams don't give her due attention - they get stuck in 'don't focus tank' which turns into 'ignore tank' which turns into 'stand there while she beats the f**k out of you'.Xul however is a pretty nasty counter to her if his team follows up. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On May 01 2016 08:55 Foxxan wrote: cuz of his root? Sonya can dispel roots if talented Requires 40 'mana' and a talent. The rest of Xuls kit is still solid against her though. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 01 2016 19:03 Larkin wrote: Ya you gotta take Hurricane at 4 which means you miss out on extra slam splash or focused attacks, but even so a root + stun = dead Sonya up until lvl 20. I think if you're just saving your Whirlwind for the right time, a lot of players can't handle Sonya. But yeah, I think mostly has to do with the entire team sitting in the Whirlwind, which makes my life really easy. On top of that, Ferocious Healing + Nerves of Steel cover basically all of the other problems I might have with healing unless I'm stun locked. On May 01 2016 21:49 FeyFey wrote: To many heroes that can't escape a Sonya are popular atm. Meta is slowly changing though and things get popular that are pretty good against her. Minus Tracer who gets one shot by a greedy build Sonya. And don't start with Blinks, you would need to constantly keep 2 blinks up to avoid that. That might be it. Kael'thas is a piece of cake and a lot of tanks minus ETC are basically walking healing fountains for Sonya. As for Tracer, if you manage to hit her with the spear + Focused Attacks/Seismic Slam, you can chunk her down by half health (3/4 with Berserker). From there, she has to avoid getting anywhere near you because she will take a huge chunk of damage from another Slam and it's also really easy to juke her out and hit her with Whirlwind. But again, that's all dependent on whether you can hit the spear. I imagine good Tracer players will juke it 90% of the time, but the plebs I'm playing against Ranks 3-6 aren't so good at dodging them. | ||
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GeneralSnoop
United States142 Posts
On May 01 2016 05:52 FeyFey wrote: I would say base movement speed is easier to play then using blinks. Just play Vikings and focus on Eric. Its way easier to dodge skill shots with him then with Tracer consistently. Especially if you are up against people with good reactions, since you go in a straight line with a Tracer blink. The thing is though, counter play is harder against blinks. Its actually easier to predict, but requires alot of specialized training to hit. While a faster moving target just needs a few adjustments from the usual. Also this is a moba and tracer is designed to be a get in get out character. A perma speed buffed character would be a dance around and constantly hit your opponent character. I don't think that base movement speed is easier for one reason: zoning. You can't force tracer to go anywhere, your team can't really collapse on a tracer, and it is not effective to bait or set a trap for a tracer. Every once in awhile you can get lucky or the tracer player can get overconfident and misstep, but at my rank (~3-5) I see a lot of 0-2 death tracers. Every 20 seconds she can escape any root, and even her blinks are a free pass over Naz zombies and such. I play a lot of tassadar and you can't even use force wall to block a choke! If she has either recall or 2 blinks (which is often) she just hops to safety another way, sometimes blowing straight through a couple teamates. I won't even mention any attempts to body block  Playing Valla, Tyrael, Illidan, or any other mobility heroes against her just feels sad (admittedly I am bad with illidan vs most people, but my valla is level 18). It feels like my skills or health or damage are reduced due to my mobility, which now is completely useless since I can neither engage nor escape better than anyone else! | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Key of grabbing Tracer is to learn how man blinks someone needs to force out so you can kill her. Just like a Tracer has to learn how many blinks she has to keep in order to not die. Valla is actually good for that, even though it means you have to play Rainbow Valla. But catching Tracers right now is rather easy, people will get better at not overcommiting against heroes that restrict the amount of blinks she can use rather heavily. They will also stop trying to sticky bomb a Zagara that obviously and maybe watch where those banelings go and think twice about pressing that recall button. Tracers will do one thing though, they will do what their bombs do and stick around in QM, because she is like Nova and Eric, she is immune to a large bunch of heroes. And thats good, because I can kill Tracers while Noverwatch. Even if I have to take Dwarf Launch and Haymaker. Yeah Tracer is hard to kill and does good damage and beats almost any hero at speed. But thats why she has a Flashbang as an ult and mounts up slower then other heroes. (second part might be my imagination and I just get triggered by her weird mount up luckily Blizzard implemented a work around just at the right time) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
Played a few games yesterday and everyone in my team had a dash/ blink. Was so awesome We played Tracer, Monk, Illidan, Chen and Falstad. The slightest missposition from an enemy meant he had 5 ppl dashing for him and you couldn't get away from us ^^ | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
And she's obviously imba at this level as Hotslogs shows, even if I don't care about her at all. I mostly played vs bad Tracers and they had a huge impact on every game. And she's OP as fuck vs block, and especially vs Murky (breaks block too quickly, kills the fish in 1 second). | ||
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