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Hier
2391 Posts
![[image loading]](http://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/blog_header/s9/S905U982A5MG1441231839760.jpg) Patch Notes, April 19 2016
Tracer Spotlight Tracer First Impressions
April 26, 2016
May 4, 2016
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GeneralSnoop
United States142 Posts
Best patch EVER!!! (well, since the new draft UI at least....) | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
 On the other hand, my man Artanis got his charge! | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
in all seriousness, i hope tracer is borderline-op so li-ming gets some action in HL again, in my games (r1 low diamond) she's first ban like 80% of the time | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
having fun with Sylv und Zagara in QM atm against Tracers x3. Biggest weakness of Tracer. Someone that ambushes you from behind. Testing the new Ruleset about high level/low level hero match making. I really hate it. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgfF4gjUEAQrCH0.jpg) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
Thought it was even bigger | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On April 20 2016 12:53 GeneralSnoop wrote: Forget Tracer! The big news of this patch is that you can now see the names of heroes in draft with mouseover!!! Best patch EVER!!! (well, since the new draft UI at least....) I also learned that color variations have names like "blue", "red", etc. Dahaka's are "variation 1", "variation 2", etc. -_- | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AbIkKnS.jpg?1) | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
People will learn in 1-2 weeks to play vs her though might be more fun later. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
We just released a new hotfix for Heroes of the Storm in order to apply the bug fixes listed below. We also recently released a new patch that introduced several improvements for the game, and you can click here to check out those patch notes. Bug Fixes General Fixed an issue that could cause the Login button to appear disabled on the Heroes of the Storm login screen despite entering proper account credentials. Heroes and Talents Fixed an issue that caused Tychus’ Grenade to deal more damage than intended. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
I get super frustrated on Tracer though, because I don't have alot of things that reveal cloak. Which resulted into me playing Nova again and its alot of fun. Especially if you go Tracer killer build, with remote delivery decoy, anti armor shells and tripple tap. So that Tracers know if they recall they are dead unless they find cover. And I don't think Tracer is really forgiving, because if you make a mistake and didn't do damage, your team is in a 4v5 situation for 20ish seconds. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On April 22 2016 04:47 FeyFey wrote: Yeah Dehaka is avoid for Tracer and since Dehaka is faster then her she has to use blinks to even escape him. Lots of heroes that can simply keep everyone save from Tracer just by being around and then her ult charge is rather slow. Don't even need CCs really. Instant hits are enough. I get super frustrated on Tracer though, because I don't have alot of things that reveal cloak. Which resulted into me playing Nova again and its alot of fun. Especially if you go Tracer killer build, with remote delivery decoy, anti armor shells and tripple tap. So that Tracers know if they recall they are dead unless they find cover. And I don't think Tracer is really forgiving, because if you make a mistake and didn't do damage, your team is in a 4v5 situation for 20ish seconds. In a lot of ways she reminds me of an ambusher style of play. I find myself hovering at the edge of battles like I would with butcher or zeratul, ready to pounce in to secure a kill and then teleport out. She has more poke, but your poke has to be pretty reserved if the enemy team knows how to punish you at all. Also, similar to butcher and zeratul, she is a great 1v1'r. And yeah, sorry-- I did not specifiy that specifically I go for the speed boost on dehaka at level 1. His ability to walk faster than tracer means she can't kite him without using blink, which is a limited resource. Also, his bush teleporting means she can't effectively attack lone teammates without you emerging as a (very deadly) threat. I've killed many tracers this week by just walking by them with my area damage up and running. THEN we can talk about how his Q stun and R(Isolation) are quite deadly to tracer. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect silence effects might stop her from reloading too? | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
If she turns out to be too strong after another two weeks, they may need to remove or reduce the 2 free blinks after recalling talent at 7 which is a huge source of extra mobility on an already exceptionally mobile hero, or further reduce her health. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On April 22 2016 07:01 SC2Toastie wrote: She has similar health to Valla, but also has a far superior auto attack (non stationary), 3 Vaults, and a "OMFG I FUCKED UP SO HARD LEMME RESET FOR FREE HAHAHA" button. In trade of having slightly worse ultimates. Lol Valla's auto does more damage. It does a ton more damage than Tracer's if you build her for it, otherwise she gets a ton more range with multishot and then they're not really comparable anymore. I think it's unfair to say her ults are only slightly better because they can change a team fight while Tracer's ults are basically just a part of her full combo. Valla doesn't get 3 vaults but she gets move speed. Valla's auto damage is some serious constant pressure. Tracer's damage is more cooldown dependent. The only way Tracer's damage keeps up is if she's going for melee attacks when recall is on cooldown and she's low on blinks. She simply can't keep up her damage and have her outs too. Different enemy heroes will shut down Valla and Tracer. I don't think Tracer is so clearly superior. | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2550 Posts
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Hier
2391 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Hier
2391 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On April 27 2016 04:33 Hier wrote: Waiting on Tracers nerfs. They nerfed her level 4 talent. It had been giving her half the benefit of one of her other level 4 talents up until this patch. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
She is cancer in QM though. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Tracer will end up special ruled like Nova in QM, so no worries. Hard to judge Tracer, because her impact isn't shown that well. Not like Viking soak or Li Ming / Kael just insta killing everyone. She only clears up after a teamfight like Illidan so she gets the I got killed by spotlight from enemies. And being chased down is next to stun chained to death when it comes to frustration levels. I just need more games against her to say she is too good. But I learned that she can easily be ganked the moment she stood too long in one place. Really successful at killing her on Dragonshire if she tries to capture a Shrine alone. Should get harder once Tracers learn how to adapt their Talents better. I am also slowly learning how to place AoEs to disengage against a Tracer. But I really hope Tracers becomes a thing in competitive, because I think she will make Malf come back. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
Does my QM MMR influence my HL MMR? With my smurf I'm pretty much always in charge of bans despite losing games to retardedness of HL Rank 20-40s QM Rank with my smurf is about 3.3K | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 29 2016 17:28 Harris1st wrote: unrelated quesion: Does my QM MMR influence my HL MMR? With my smurf I'm pretty much always in charge of bans despite losing games to retardedness of HL Rank 20-40s QM Rank with my smurf is about 3.3K Nope, it doesn't. Both are individual MMRs on their own, as you can see on Hotslogs. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
On April 28 2016 10:32 karazax wrote: TownHall Heroes Ep. 105 It's interesting how many of the pros on the show thought tracer was fine or just decent a week ago and now think she is probably OP after getting more experience with her. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On April 29 2016 18:41 Ramiz1989 wrote: Nope, it doesn't. Both are individual MMRs on their own, as you can see on Hotslogs. Hotslogs got nothing to do with that... My first ever HL game on my smurf I was in charge (estimated Hotslog starting MMR: 1700) -201 My second ever HL game I was in charge (estimated Hotslog starting MMR: 1499) I cannot believe to be the highest rated player with 1499 MMR... | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 29 2016 21:42 Harris1st wrote: Hotslogs got nothing to do with that... My first ever HL game on my smurf I was in charge (estimated Hotslog starting MMR: 1700) -201 My second ever HL game I was in charge (estimated Hotslog starting MMR: 1499) I cannot believe to be the highest rated player with 1499 MMR... MMR on Hotslogs isn't really well represented until you have a bunch of games. I managed to get in a game with Tychus that wasn't level 40 and had higher MMR than me(I was around 3150 at that time) and when I looked at Hotslogs I figured that he was gaining 200-400 MMR per game and played like 15 HL games in total and got ~3300 MMR. But once you played around 100 games in each league you get solid representation of your current MMR. And why can't you believe that you were the highest rated player with 1499 MMR? You just got into the game with other players that had low MMR at that point. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On April 29 2016 22:39 Ramiz1989 wrote: MMR on Hotslogs isn't really well represented until you have a bunch of games. I managed to get in a game with Tychus that wasn't level 40 and had higher MMR than me(I was around 3150 at that time) and when I looked at Hotslogs I figured that he was gaining 200-400 MMR per game and played like 15 HL games in total and got ~3300 MMR. But once you played around 100 games in each league you get solid representation of your current MMR. And why can't you believe that you were the highest rated player with 1499 MMR? You just got into the game with other players that had low MMR at that point. Hotslogs is for me like wikipedia: It sure is nice and all, but i'd never trust it 100%  (Not even 90% ^_^)And i couldn't believe it because i didn't know that it's possible to have such a low MMR... :/ | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 30 2016 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Hotslogs is for me like wikipedia: It sure is nice and all, but i'd never trust it 100% (Not even 90% ^_^)And i couldn't believe it because i didn't know that it's possible to have such a low MMR... :/ Well trust it or not, it is the only way of knowing any sort of MMR for now. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
On April 29 2016 21:08 karazax wrote: It's interesting how many of the pros on the show thought tracer was fine or just decent a week ago and now think she is probably OP after getting more experience with her. This was obvious as soon as she was released. Have to wait on these pros to catch up... | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2016 00:10 SC2Toastie wrote: Anybody know a place where I can see some VODs (youtube :D), I've got a lot of commuting to do and would like to have some content :-), but twitch is kinda dead/paywalled and I can't really find up to date stuff on youtube (Khaldor has been spreading his content so thing that it is now 2 patches behind )Nvm Gosumagers is good | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
The hero overview is pretty cool. Check out MVP_Rich's Hero Overview. Also next weeks sale has been announced: Weekly Sale Items for May 3 — 10, 2016
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SwCviFEZJVc/VyN_LmfdnFI/AAAAAAAAew4/wMANmDEXKF8MarGOFbdpc4IBZM8KYZwEACCo/s7130/TempoStorm_Infographic_HotS-Summer-Europe-1-v2.png) | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 30 2016 02:41 karazax wrote: hotslogs depends on you uploading all your games, otherwise it's going to be inaccurate. I actually haven't upload majority of my games, like 95% of them were uploaded by one of the players from the games I've played. So you don't necessarily need to upload them but yeah all of them need to be there. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On April 30 2016 04:04 karazax wrote: Yeah but if you don't upload them yourself then it's quite possible some wins or losses are not uploaded by someone else and it will not be 100% accurate. Normally at high level HL there will always be 1 person who uploads the game. | ||
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
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GeneralSnoop
United States142 Posts
For example, the scout in TF2 is difficult to play because you have much lower health than the other classes, need to be up close to do decent damage, and your compensation is simply faster base movement and the ability to double jump. The scout cannot teleport!!! You have move in a way that is unpredictable, and continue aiming well despite jumping all around. If you mess up, you die, you cannot blink/recall/use any kind of 'burst movement' to get away. Tracer throws all of that out the window. You have comparable health to other assassins (I think people have said here that it is the same health as valla), you don't have to aim or even studder-step, and you can engage and disengage at will. You just click on a a guy and blink around. It is impossible to predict you or make a great play with a skill shot because you literally teleport, and with the amount of charges you get and the cooldowns on blink and recall you should never really be without one. If tracers mobility were recall on 24 second cooldown and 200% movement speed(subject to number tweaks obviously) at all times, she could be difficult to play. As of now she is the easiest hero to play. No positioning needed, cannot be taken advantage of, and pretty much only counter is point and click abilities. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
The thing is though, counter play is harder against blinks. Its actually easier to predict, but requires alot of specialized training to hit. While a faster moving target just needs a few adjustments from the usual. Also this is a moba and tracer is designed to be a get in get out character. A perma speed buffed character would be a dance around and constantly hit your opponent character. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
I'm seriously 1v5ing people in HL on Sonya. No Hero counters her, not even Tracer. Wtf. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On May 01 2016 07:55 SC2John wrote: Did Sonya get better at some point? Why is she so good? O.O I'm seriously 1v5ing people in HL on Sonya. No Hero counters her, not even Tracer. Wtf. She keeps getting nerfed but yeah still a beast, especially in HL since teams don't give her due attention - they get stuck in 'don't focus tank' which turns into 'ignore tank' which turns into 'stand there while she beats the f**k out of you'.Xul however is a pretty nasty counter to her if his team follows up. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On May 01 2016 08:55 Foxxan wrote: cuz of his root? Sonya can dispel roots if talented Requires 40 'mana' and a talent. The rest of Xuls kit is still solid against her though. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 01 2016 19:03 Larkin wrote: Ya you gotta take Hurricane at 4 which means you miss out on extra slam splash or focused attacks, but even so a root + stun = dead Sonya up until lvl 20. I think if you're just saving your Whirlwind for the right time, a lot of players can't handle Sonya. But yeah, I think mostly has to do with the entire team sitting in the Whirlwind, which makes my life really easy. On top of that, Ferocious Healing + Nerves of Steel cover basically all of the other problems I might have with healing unless I'm stun locked. On May 01 2016 21:49 FeyFey wrote: To many heroes that can't escape a Sonya are popular atm. Meta is slowly changing though and things get popular that are pretty good against her. Minus Tracer who gets one shot by a greedy build Sonya. And don't start with Blinks, you would need to constantly keep 2 blinks up to avoid that. That might be it. Kael'thas is a piece of cake and a lot of tanks minus ETC are basically walking healing fountains for Sonya. As for Tracer, if you manage to hit her with the spear + Focused Attacks/Seismic Slam, you can chunk her down by half health (3/4 with Berserker). From there, she has to avoid getting anywhere near you because she will take a huge chunk of damage from another Slam and it's also really easy to juke her out and hit her with Whirlwind. But again, that's all dependent on whether you can hit the spear. I imagine good Tracer players will juke it 90% of the time, but the plebs I'm playing against Ranks 3-6 aren't so good at dodging them. | ||
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GeneralSnoop
United States142 Posts
On May 01 2016 05:52 FeyFey wrote: I would say base movement speed is easier to play then using blinks. Just play Vikings and focus on Eric. Its way easier to dodge skill shots with him then with Tracer consistently. Especially if you are up against people with good reactions, since you go in a straight line with a Tracer blink. The thing is though, counter play is harder against blinks. Its actually easier to predict, but requires alot of specialized training to hit. While a faster moving target just needs a few adjustments from the usual. Also this is a moba and tracer is designed to be a get in get out character. A perma speed buffed character would be a dance around and constantly hit your opponent character. I don't think that base movement speed is easier for one reason: zoning. You can't force tracer to go anywhere, your team can't really collapse on a tracer, and it is not effective to bait or set a trap for a tracer. Every once in awhile you can get lucky or the tracer player can get overconfident and misstep, but at my rank (~3-5) I see a lot of 0-2 death tracers. Every 20 seconds she can escape any root, and even her blinks are a free pass over Naz zombies and such. I play a lot of tassadar and you can't even use force wall to block a choke! If she has either recall or 2 blinks (which is often) she just hops to safety another way, sometimes blowing straight through a couple teamates. I won't even mention any attempts to body block Playing Valla, Tyrael, Illidan, or any other mobility heroes against her just feels sad (admittedly I am bad with illidan vs most people, but my valla is level 18). It feels like my skills or health or damage are reduced due to my mobility, which now is completely useless since I can neither engage nor escape better than anyone else! | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Key of grabbing Tracer is to learn how man blinks someone needs to force out so you can kill her. Just like a Tracer has to learn how many blinks she has to keep in order to not die. Valla is actually good for that, even though it means you have to play Rainbow Valla. But catching Tracers right now is rather easy, people will get better at not overcommiting against heroes that restrict the amount of blinks she can use rather heavily. They will also stop trying to sticky bomb a Zagara that obviously and maybe watch where those banelings go and think twice about pressing that recall button. Tracers will do one thing though, they will do what their bombs do and stick around in QM, because she is like Nova and Eric, she is immune to a large bunch of heroes. And thats good, because I can kill Tracers while Noverwatch. Even if I have to take Dwarf Launch and Haymaker. Yeah Tracer is hard to kill and does good damage and beats almost any hero at speed. But thats why she has a Flashbang as an ult and mounts up slower then other heroes. (second part might be my imagination and I just get triggered by her weird mount up luckily Blizzard implemented a work around just at the right time) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
Played a few games yesterday and everyone in my team had a dash/ blink. Was so awesome We played Tracer, Monk, Illidan, Chen and Falstad. The slightest missposition from an enemy meant he had 5 ppl dashing for him and you couldn't get away from us ^^ | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
And she's obviously imba at this level as Hotslogs shows, even if I don't care about her at all. I mostly played vs bad Tracers and they had a huge impact on every game. And she's OP as fuck vs block, and especially vs Murky (breaks block too quickly, kills the fish in 1 second). | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On May 02 2016 21:46 Leolio wrote: Tracer is just way too easy to play at plat-diamond-master level (ranks 1-10). Like Li Ming, she's very forgiving and very efficient. And she's obviously imba at this level as Hotslogs shows, even if I don't care about her at all. I mostly played vs bad Tracers and they had a huge impact on every game. And she's OP as fuck vs block, and especially vs Murky (breaks block too quickly, kills the fish in 1 second). And the Egg killing bug/feature makes it impossible to play Murky nowadays 70% winrate against Murky .... Murgl murgl :/ | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 02 2016 10:36 GeneralSnoop wrote: Playing Valla, Tyrael, Illidan, or any other mobility heroes against her just feels sad (admittedly I am bad with illidan vs most people, but my valla is level 18). It feels like my skills or health or damage are reduced due to my mobility, which now is completely useless since I can neither engage nor escape better than anyone else! Zeratul with Vorpal Blades/Wormhole is the only Hero mobile enough to catch Tracer, imo. Everyone else just has to rely on good positioning and poking her out before she can get the big damage in. Illidan is horrendous against her. On May 02 2016 21:07 Harris1st wrote: Is there such a thing as a "dash-meta" ? Played a few games yesterday and everyone in my team had a dash/ blink. Was so awesome We played Tracer, Monk, Illidan, Chen and Falstad. The slightest missposition from an enemy meant he had 5 ppl dashing for him and you couldn't get away from us ^^ If League of Legends has any sort of pattern to it, it means that a tank meta will necessarily follow. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Blizzard Entertainment 5/2/2016 84 We’re planning to release a new Balance Update for Heroes of the Storm on Wednesday, May 4, in order to apply a few balance changes. Read on for the complete list of changes we’ll be making with this week’s Balance Update. Tracer
Developer Comments: As we’re sure many of you have noticed, Tracer is performing just a little too well on all fronts. While we are excited to bring her to the Nexus, we understand that in the right hands, she can be an absolute terror to the enemy team. We’re lowering her Health, Basic Attack damage, and increasing Recall’s cooldown to make her less universally powerful. We’re going to be giving back some of that Basic Attack damage on her Level 16 Talent tier to further separate Sleight of Hand from the other options, which should help the choice between more Pulse Bomb charges vs. stronger Basic Attacks feel like a more meaningful decision. We also saw an opportunity to help improve her Talent pick rates, so we’re making minor adjustments to Pulse Strike and Slipstream. We’ll continue to keep a close eye on her, as we believe she is similar to Illidan, where the right place from a balance perspective is more narrow than most of our other Heroes. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Very dissapointing patches these three or so weeks in a row. This one included but maybe more to come? | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On May 03 2016 18:12 Harris1st wrote: btw support, who/ what is the next hero and will there be a new support any time soon? We don't really know, we don't even know what other heroes are we getting before Gul'Dan(that will be available on August 30 when WoW Legion comes out). People were talking about Kel'Thuzad few months ago, but who knows if he will be out anytime soon, and he will probably be assassin/specialist. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Fortunately now we have bans. So a support patch is really the last thing I want. I feel EVERY support is good right now, some better on some maps, or with some teams. Tyrande, Lili, BW and Rehgar feel very allaround. Khara hard counters cloak, Malf hard counters dive (Twilight Dream + roots = dead divers), Uther is great with good frontlines, Tassadar is awesome as 2nd support, Morales is OP on stationary objectives with a good frontine and hammer/raynor... I wouldn't touch supports if I were Blizzard. IMO supports and warriors are the most balanced classes right now. I only wish we had more choice in pure solo tanks. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
But you sit back and heal for most heroes, that bloody suck. You need to take cleanse at 7 when that tree is the most fun of them all. Need WAY more variation for the supports, also MORE utility and MORE active play for them all. They might be balanced or not but design wise they stink long way down the road! | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Health nerf on Tracer is evil, wonder if I can 100/0 her now on Nova without effort. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
 IMO it won't work unless the Tracer is bad or unless you hit Snipe (master) from cloak. Foxxan: I admit I wasn't thinking about fun when playing support, just balance. But to me supports are fun, unless your teammates suck way too much. BW and Lili are pretty intense to play, Tyrande is very fun, Tassadar too. Can't speak much for the others but they can be very fun. Lost a game vs DPS Malfurion yesterday, I can tell you this guy had the more fun amongst all 10 of us. | ||
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KrytosSR
United States28 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
which is a fucking liability in this game sadly | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On May 03 2016 23:33 Foxxan wrote: Would love to see that guy with the big shield from overwatch, could add some new dimensions to hots if done porperly i presume. Reinhardt. I'd also put money on Reaper and Pharah making it into the game sooner rather than later. | ||
Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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KrytosSR
United States28 Posts
On May 04 2016 02:22 MotherFox wrote: So...hanzo or a warcraft hero? Definitely a dragon in that gif. But probably some warcraft thingy. Kind of surprised they didn't go with two overwatch heroes back-to-back Definitely not Hanzo, his dragon ultimate and overall themeing is Eastern samurai to his brothers ninja theme, that is definitely a European style dragon so my money is on a Warcraft hero | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 04 2016 03:34 KrytosSR wrote: Definitely not Hanzo, his dragon ultimate and overall themeing is Eastern samurai to his brothers ninja theme, that is definitely a European style dragon so my money is on a Warcraft hero You listen to enough of hanzo's soundbites in-game and you begin to wonder if he's just a walking offensive stereotype. Then you remember nazeebo and remind yourself that that is just how blizzard rolls. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On May 04 2016 02:03 Valiver wrote: https://twitter.com/BlizzHeroes/status/727543529812054017 Imma go with Daenerys Targaryen!! jump on the Hypetrain and get the money rolling | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
Reddit got it EDIT: Ofc it could be that Brightwing gets a buff, new Ult: Boss Mode! | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
Imagine a tank/ support who could block skillshots/ basic attacks in a small arc. Hello skill ceiling :D Could be anywhere from 10% to 100% blocked damage. Think about a draft: Oh you wanna take Li-ming? We'll lemme get "Blocky" to completely negate all your basic abilities | ||
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
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Aiobhill
Germany283 Posts
[B]On May 04 2016 22:22 Harris1st wrote:[/BOh you wanna take Li-ming? We'll lemme get "Blocky" to completely negate all your basic abilities We already have tracer 'negating' all non-instant skillshots. I don't think that 'negates all' ever translates into good game design and fun games. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
Now granted I pre-purchased in good faith thinking that I would really love the game, but I basically got early access to Tracer and Tracer to level 5 for free. #feelsGoodMan edit-> And now that they removed overwatch from my account, tracer is still on my heroes account... o_O We'll see tomorrow if that sticks around. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Chinese HOTS website implies that the clues from this week are from 2 different heroes. I will translate the entry for you guys. 嘣，变羊！咩~” 是否还在好奇昨天加入时空枢纽的是哪位朋友？今天，又有一位新朋友将会到来！ Bam! Polymorph! Baa (sound that a sheep makes). Are you still curious about which new friend entered the Nexus yesterday? Today, another new friend will be coming! Yes, the text does imply that they are 2 different heroes. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
As for chromie, i believe that is a dragon(?) Iam pretty bad myself at wow lore. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wallpoper.com/images/00/42/48/25/video-games_00424825.jpg) | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Talaris
Switzerland760 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
http://cache-3.sendvid.com/ouefc2bh.mp4 new heroes are chromie and medivh. (apparently the official bliz youtube channel posted the video a day early by accident.) | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 06 2016 06:38 Talaris wrote: But ppl never pick tanks or supports anyways, so just give them moar damage ! Seems to be the way of things. Also, I like the Chromie skin that just makes her look like Li Ming. Medivh looks like he has a ton of potential as well. The new skins and mounts look solid af. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
EDIT: Also, BS that we get a GNOME (kinda) hero before a Troll.  Also Chromie as an Assassin sucks, such an opportunity for another support! Medivh looks like he'll be really hood. Widowmaker Nova hype. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On May 06 2016 08:11 Zambrah wrote: Also Chromie as an Assassin sucks, such an opportunity for another support! Agreed. A control based, time manipulating support with light healing options would have been really interesting. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Red - support Bronze - assassin Black - warrior Blue - assassin Green - support I guess thats how itll shake out | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Tyrande's new skin is awesome too. I guess it means we won't have Hawkeye in the game. ^^ Having played Warcraft 3 a thousand years ago I always assumed that Medivh guy was the Raven Lord. Now he's just back to "Hobo-looking-crow-guy", it's really sad for him. Seems fun to play though. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But anyway if Medivh really comes to the nexus I hope he is op and played every game, so I can kill him every day for what he did to azeroth. | ||
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Aceace
Turkey1305 Posts
Btw does medivh cast "Chain Polymorph"? | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Leolio
France633 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Medivh Grubby saying Arthas OP with rework. also Ranked Play revamp announced | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
and Anub'arak rework inc. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Liquid Cris playing Chromie: Article on Chromie Article on Medivh | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Falstad getting changed. Grubby discussing now. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45449 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
Does his shield stop roots and stuns or just damage? Looked like it wasn't other status effects. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Falstad Some informations provided by /u/phoniccrank from Grubby's stream :
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
I like especially that they added a cast time to her Q, the mage hero. More stuff like that please. Even on melee heroes could work tbh.. But w.e iam happy for it now atleast. About silenced players not able to do HL. I like and dislike this change. If i ever get silenced unfair, then i will hate blizzard. Saying STFU and getting silenced is bullshit.. Anyway. Will try to not get emotional in games. Because i really dont want to be silenced now since i do 100% HL pretty much. Dissapointed with the amount of changes. I actually had some hope it was gonna be HOTS 2.0. Well i blame Gosugamers for that perhaps since in one of their tiny polls "You think this will be hots 2.0?". Like more changes to generic talents. More reworks, perhaps a new gameplay change in the aerly game. One team wipe in lategame=not game over. And so on. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
I cant take the talent i love anymore early on which was windrider at 4, The 100% reduced cooldown trait while active. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Another Medivh talent overview from SolidJake Grubby said Chromie is supposed to be released May 17. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On May 07 2016 01:53 karazax wrote: There are more changes, Grubby going thru a bunch of them, just too fast for me to keep up, and had to stop watching for a while so didn't catch it all. I catched some of his stream. Mana regen talents getting reworked for example, overall not many changes imo. | ||
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Talaris
Switzerland760 Posts
On May 07 2016 01:11 ThomasjServo wrote: MInes must be bugged if what swish said was true, there was a shot of raynor damaging the bird form in between 9-10 min in his video. Does his shield stop roots and stuns or just damage? Looked like it wasn't other status effects. Perhaps a visual bug ? His shield is supposed to "only" stop dmg. I'm not that hyped about "Medivh changing the whole meta", though... The changes are great,d ont get me wrong - a 1,5sec of dmg immunity every 5secs would have been an end to the stun meta w/o needing to nerf alot of heroes. Or the free scouting is a powercreeped version of Tyrandes Owl. But it's put all into 1 package again --- a package that can get banned or where if the opposing team gets Medivh, you are out of luck... TLDR; The intent looks great, would have loved to see the love spread over multiple heroes though and not into a binary "get Medivh or dont get him" - situation. ---------------------- @Silenced players can't HL: awesome ! Now we just need the matchmaking system to stop queing us with retards that got carried to their rank and everything will be gucci | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
* Yay more free gold? I'm running out of things to spend this stuff on. * I'm sad about the changes to Falstad, as I feel he is in a really good place right now aside from maybe gust still being too powerful. * I am SUPER confused about these new heroes. Bliz has previously said that coordination disruption is what ends up being broken in games, has decided to reduce the amount of cc in the game, but then adds hugely disruptive heroes like this. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 07 2016 02:09 Talaris wrote: Perhaps a visual bug ? His shield is supposed to "only" stop dmg. I'm not that hyped about "Medivh changing the whole meta", though... The changes are great,d ont get me wrong - a 1,5sec of dmg immunity every 5secs would have been an end to the stun meta w/o needing to nerf alot of heroes. Or the free scouting is a powercreeped version of Tyrandes Owl. But it's put all into 1 package again --- a package that can get banned or where if the opposing team gets Medivh, you are out of luck... TLDR; The intent looks great, would have loved to see the love spread over multiple heroes though and not into a binary "get Medivh or dont get him" - situation. ---------------------- @Silenced players can't HL: awesome ! Now we just need the matchmaking system to stop queing us with retards that got carried to their rank and everything will be gucci I rather like the design of him as I read it which has somewhat been reflected in professional meta lately with soft supports and a proper support. Things like Tassadar with any real healer, or Tyrande being run in combination. Even though they are calling him a specialist, I see Medivh as the first of what I imagine will be many characters that function as supports but don't heal. To my mind, this is what I remember about playing a support in the extremely limited number of games I played in League of Legends. I like the idea of Medivh like characters, more than I like what I've seen right now and I am personally hoping for more. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Chromie [D] Timewalker - Trait You've traveled into the future, and as such, will learn your talents 1 level earlier than your teammates! [Q] Sand Blast (20 mana, 3 sec CD) After 1 second, fire a missile that deals damage to the first enemy Hero hit.
[W] Dragon's Breath (70 mana, 14 sec CD) Fire a blast into the air that lands after 1.5 seconds, dealing damage to enemies in an area. Enemies cannot see where the blast will land.
[E] Time Trap (50 mana, 18 sec CD) Place a Time Trap that arms and Stealths after 2 seconds. The first enemy Hero to touch it will be put into Stasis for 2 seconds. Only 1 trap can exist at once.
(R) Slowing Sands (4 mana/sec, 5 sec CD) Place a sand vortex that greatly slows enemies inside it. The longer it is active the more it slows, up to 50% after 5 seconds.
(R)Temporal Loop (60 mana, 70 sec CD) Choose an enemy Hero. After 3 seconds, they will teleport back to the location where you cast Temporal Loop on them.
There may be more stuff coming, lots of streamers haven't done any videos or anything, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave them a different set of reveals, otherwise the ones who stream at night will just be rehashing same stuff. We shall see. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Talaris
Switzerland760 Posts
@karazax : Thanks for the links AND especially for the written down version for all the ppl at work/phone or who prefer to read up talents over watching @thread: Someone already mentioned that the globe collection talents will be redone, in details: (these will change for all heroes that got them) - Mana reg still +0,1 per globe, stops after a certain amount of globes picked up. Grants +100 Max mana then. - Regen master still +x per glove, when you get 30 of them, also get +500 max health. - Seasoned Marksmen is +0.2 dmg per minion now (so a slight buff from 6 to 5 needed for 1 point of AA-dmg). When you reach 40 bonus dmg, you also get a talent (Increses att speed by 30% for 6 secs, 60sec CD) Didn't like the quest talents before (playing Hots, not WoW), but I can get behind the subtle effects the changes might bring... -you can stop being a ghlobe wh*** when you hit the max amount around lvl16-20ish -you get a small power spike inbetween 16 and 20 which could even out the current power curve abit -stuff like seasoned marksmen adds abit of added micro/decision making now. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
@globe change I think i like the life regen ones but not the mana ones. +100 mana? Why? What good does it do and besides, Will run out of mana on uther now unless they change things on him WHICH they should either way imo. The lifen regen which gives +500hp is a nice one. Tanks should feel more like tanks in some situations. Such as tyrande+diablo combo for example. Muradin can get one shotted which shouldnt happen(?) Now this wont change that for him since he dont have regen master. So that are things i want to change furhter which doesnt seem to be the case. If you as a tank want to be more tanky, that should be possible but it really aint atm. The positive thing is, now you stop look for globes. Which is nice. As uther you look for globes throughout the game, even at 20 unless you have 45+ which in an average game you never get. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 07 2016 15:58 MotherFox wrote: I don't get the difference between rank 5 and rank 1 being only 500 gold. Seems like there should be something special and exclusive for rank 1. I dunno, but I'm rank 3, so I'm just gonna not play until the reset lol. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 08 2016 08:45 SC2John wrote: I dunno, but I'm rank 3, so I'm just gonna not play until the reset lol. It is based on maximum rank obtained during the entire preseason. [So, for instance, my only way to improve is to get rank 1, since I did achieve rank 5 at one point] | ||
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Ryzel
United States547 Posts
On May 06 2016 08:20 Amarok wrote: Agreed. A control based, time manipulating support with light healing options would have been really interesting. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/506707-hero-idea-for-fun-nozdormu My idea was for something like what you described. If you're interested in the possibilities of a time based hero you can check it out. Chromies temporal loop and time trap are the very similar to my hero's relocate and time save. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Ryzel
United States547 Posts
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HzawxJj.png) The level is set at 20 in the calculator. The idea to my mind is to just get the ult up as fast as possible through out the game. Level 4 I'm wishy washy on, but nothing else fits really well so I figure reduce the need to back as much. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
On May 09 2016 07:24 MotherFox wrote: I heard that her level 13 melee ability only grants CD reduction on her ult for 1 of the targets, even if multiple are in the area. That is indeed true. It takes the highest value you caught. | ||
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Mnemic
Botswana80 Posts
Unranked draft has been confirmed to be underway! Probably coming soontm. It is "Almost a certainty at this point" said Dustin Browder linkHell, it's about time !! | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
So, looking at some info on that link: I've been playing a lot of Falstad since the Tracer patch, and it is interesting to see how nerf announcements change things. Falstad went from a choice I could be confident to get in 99% of games because he wouldn't be banned or picked, and since the news of his nerfs his he has been firstpicked or banned in a large number of my games. The worst part IMO is people are picking him who really have no clue how to best use mighty gust, so I'm seeing tons of lame gusts which simply push enemy teams away who might have engaged in a moment, but the gust didn't really do much other than delay them a few seconds. Anyway, that's my musings on rank 8 meta. As for the specific changes: * Epic mount change is...uh...OK I guess. It seems weird to be nerfing this when dehaka's apex predator is so good in comparison. I'm not sure what exactly a 20 sec to 25 sec CD change will accomplish, though. * Power throw's removal is OK I guess, but it means that level 4 is no longer a meaningful choice, I think. Either players will be comfortable with flow rider, or they will just go for one of the survivability talents. * Level 16 has been wrecked, hopefully there is more news than this-- else we only have 2 talent choices at that tier. * Hopefully they are replacing overdrive with something. I think having the overdrive+hamerang+hinterlands+re-activate BOOMerang combo as a potential thing is a nice thing to on falstad. * Hammertime being removed was an obvious move ever since Bliz said they wanted to remove unnecessary stuns from the game. Unfortunately it was a pretty major power component of both of Falstad's builds, as it allowed him to be a firstpick since he could deal with a variety of things. My biggest fear is that this was an exhaustive list of changes to Falstad. I think Bliz might be trying to promote a lightning strike build, but I fear they don't understand why the lightning strike build is such trash right now. [the damage is all back-loaded] | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 09 2016 21:54 Foxxan wrote: Flow rider(the one that reduces basic abilities cooldown?) Is not at 4 anymore, its at 13. That's not listed in the link above I guess we'll have to wait for comprehensive patch notes for further comment. I'm still disappointed he's being touched at all, though--- I thought Falstad was in a really good place from a pickrate/winrate perspective. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
I'm sorry but this is just dumb Also: Yeay, 2 more Heroes who fuck up the game. They should probably change prices for new release Heroes to 30 bucks or sth. Maximum profit | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:49 Harris1st wrote: Blizz's priorities... changing Falstad 6 times in 6 weeks and nobody really needs it and leave Heroes like Arthas and Anub unchanged forever... I'm sorry but this is just dumb Also: Yeay, 2 more Heroes who fuck up the game. They should probably change prices for new release Heroes to 30 bucks or sth. Maximum profit pretty ironic rant considering that arthas and anub reworks are coming with this patch | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:55 Ej_ wrote: pretty ironic rant considering that arthas and anub reworks are coming with this patch I think there are plenty of heroes that could use some love in addition to arthas/anub. Tyreal is a notable example, but I think there are plenty of heroes who need re-jiggerings more than Falstad: * Valla (lacks the strong build diversity she used to have) * Kerrigan * Tyrael * Jaina (kind of lack-lust compared to other mages IMO) * Leoric While 3 of the 5 I can think of off the top of my head are assassins, I think supports and tanks in general need buffs. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Honestly Jaina is a monster on Sky Temple and Shrines so I'm not worried about her. She relies on the map and on the fact that the frontline will protect her even more than before. Yolo Jaina is dead, that's a good thing. I don't really understand the problem with Leoric. He's good at everything (except CC maybe). Probably because the meta switched to 1 hard sustain tank. Which he can be late game, but without CC why would the other team bother hitting him anyway ? TBH I like the current meta. Once they remove silenced players, HL will be paradize (maybe not ^^). | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On May 09 2016 22:55 Ej_ wrote: pretty ironic rant considering that arthas and anub reworks are coming with this patch and how long did that take? Guessing since their release and how many tweaks/ reworks / whatever did Falstad get in the meantime? Your post pissed me off a bit here, cause clearly everyone knows what i meant... On May 09 2016 23:11 MotherFox wrote: I think there are plenty of heroes that could use some love in addition to arthas/anub. Tyreal is a notable example, but I think there are plenty of heroes who need re-jiggerings more than Falstad: * Valla (lacks the strong build diversity she used to have) * Kerrigan * Tyrael * Jaina (kind of lack-lust compared to other mages IMO) * Leoric While 3 of the 5 I can think of off the top of my head are assassins, I think supports and tanks in general need buffs. Valla is still a beast on some map objectives like BoE Kerrigan... i really like her but she is so much risk / little reward if feel. Should give her some more defensive/ survival talents maybe ? Tyrael, dunno, i like him. Asian scene likes him too. Just EU/ NA Jaina is ok IMO Leoric can be awesome in his very unique style | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
regarding Jaina: Leoric didn't carry over great with the scaling changes, but I think he is better than most people think. Rexxar is supposed to be getting a further update in the future, but C9 was quite effective with him already. Kerrigan is another really high skill cap hero and only played at pro level on Tomb and shrines where her quick ravage one shotting minions can be extra effective. Could use some work to be viable in more situations. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
Personally I think Jaina and Kerrigan are too weak for what they are. I do draft Jaina on occassion, but only once KT, Li-ming, and Falstad are all drafted or banned. (Well, AND when I'm certain that Valla wouldn't be a safer option for massive damage dealing. [Or I want some area wombo to go with zag and/or etc] | ||
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Jaina's Ring of frost and Blizzard simply win games. Like ETC's Mosh or Zag's Maw. It's rare when Valla, Raynor or KT win a game on one ultimate and/or one spell. That's why she's still viable, even more with KT banned more and more. But not being a mage player, if I must do it, I'll prefer KT because he's simply better. But Jaina has that "win game on 1 ability" factor. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 10 2016 00:49 Leolio wrote: Thanks karazax, very interesting read. Jaina's Ring of frost and Blizzard simply win games. Like ETC's Mosh or Zag's Maw. It's rare when Valla, Raynor or KT win a game on one ultimate and/or one spell. That's why she's still viable, even more with KT banned more and more. But not being a mage player, if I must do it, I'll prefer KT because he's simply better. But Jaina has that "win game on 1 ability" factor. The problem of KT vs Jaina is that they are too directly comparable. Even with ring in mind the full-combo burst of KT vs Jaina is in the same ball park, except KT is more likely to be able to 100-0 an enemy in 3 seconds flat. Also, KT has that hard stun on up to three enemies--- that gives KT much more flexibility and also makes him a better duelist. Jaina used to be able to out duel KT with iceblock at level 13, but now has to wait for level 20. That's rough. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Anyway, he thinks supports dont usually do as much as dps heroes, meaning, he believe they have less impact. Might be right here, not sure how to look at it. Their healing output is rather low compared to 1assassin hero? Also if we look at kharazim, highest healing in the game i believe(?), he has least utility. Anyway, agree with hte falstad change. In that, so unnecessary to change him frequently. Instead look at other heroes that need changing. Especially supports and tank build variety and strength/weakness of builds more.... So much more fun if u need to think what to take instead of auto and also if u can choose what to specialise in. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
(This is coming from someone who hasn't lost a single game with Valla in the last 2 months, even if I haven't been picking her a ton.) | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 10 2016 02:02 Cephiro wrote: Valla is extremely versatile and has a ton of valid talents to choose from, there are very few which I consider picks you should almost never take. Hungering / Multishot / AA / Hybrid builds all work on her if you know when and how to use them correctly. (This is coming from someone who hasn't lost a single game with Valla in the last 2 months, even if I haven't been picking her a ton.) I think this was more true before her recent change. Currently the only popular build on hotslogs at the diamond/master level is the autoattack build, and that tends to be the build I draft her for too. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
On May 10 2016 01:37 Foxxan wrote: Who is Srey? Anyway, he thinks supports dont usually do as much as dps heroes, meaning, he believe they have less impact. Might be right here, not sure how to look at it. Their healing output is rather low compared to 1assassin hero? Also if we look at kharazim, highest healing in the game i believe(?), he has least utility. Srey is a former Tempo Storm player, and has regularly been top of the NA hotslogs MMR listings and leaderboards. He has done a bunch of quality guides for the game and while he hasn't had much success as a pro player, he is an accomplished hero league player so his insights there are worth reading. He believes it is just harder to carry on supports because you still rely on your team so much to do anything. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Its just the job that will rarely get you any recognition. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
As for Valla, Liquid Cris did a pretty good guide on the most popular current pro builds: | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/20112698/heroes-of-the-storm-ptr-patch-notes-may-9-2016-5-9-2016 | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
* Secret weapon builds now have to stay in for an autoattack longer and have less up-front burst damage. * Mage builds have less safety due to the removal of power throw. * At ALL talent levels they have inserted an option of "Do you want to mage, autoattack, or jungle?". (ie- you can no longer sacrifice some damage for more sustain) * All builds suffer from the removal of the hammerang option at 16. Developer comments might have well been "we've really been struggling to strike a balance between mage and autoattack falstad styles, so we decided to change him so only dedicated falstad players will ever want to play him, and they probably should be picking a different ranged assassin instead." I can't say I like this patch. Making LiLi more like other supports by removing herbal cleanse and inserting a vanilla cleanse is just further making support choices boring IMO. I would have preferred a cleanse effect on herbal which actually does what cleanse is supposed to do[provide unstoppable for a short period] Meanwhile removing berserk just seems completely arbitrary. I guess seasoned marksmen takes its place to some extent, though? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
e: seems like Diablo can combo again, Gall's bugs also have been fixed. I think Conjurer's Pursuit got nerfed big time. That talent really was getting its fullest value with 30+ globes. Reanimation also looks weaker in its current version. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:40 ThomasjServo wrote: I guess we'll see if Falstad hangs on, shame because he was far and away the assassin I play most in HL. yeah I think Falstad was in amazing spot and I don't like his rework. I think the epic mount nerf would be enough. BM also big nerfs, I think this is the end of Zagara and Lightning Breath Diablo in competitive. Tyrande going to fall a tier as well. THRALL MEGABURST BUILD with new SM | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:40 ThomasjServo wrote: I guess we'll see if Falstad hangs on, shame because he was far and away the assassin I play most in HL. Here's to hoping that the buff to seasoned marksman is so amaze-balls that it makes him OP. But then, wouldn't it just make all the seasoned marksmen assassins OP? =\ edit-> Also, amusing to see that kerrigan has been nerfed. (Battle momentum hurts her pretty hard IMO) | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Dont get me wrong, being support can be fun but mostly its the same build, same gamestyle.. Anyway.. Really happy they looked at MURADIn this patch. Shows that they really want to have some diversity after all.. But Blizz if you read this, Please take a second look at supports. Being a tank will be so much more fun after this patch comes along. Anub'arak, Arthas, Muradin, johanna and stitches. Two more warriors to choose from. Blizz PLZ change supports around. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:42 MotherFox wrote: Here's to hoping that the buff to seasoned marksman is so amaze-balls that it makes him OP. But then, wouldn't it just make all the seasoned marksmen assassins OP? =\ edit-> Also, amusing to see that kerrigan has been nerfed. (Battle momentum hurts her pretty hard IMO) I could see a slight tweak to boomerang, but other than that super ok with where he was, time will tell though. We'll see if fly and gusts' utility wins out over the nerfs elsewhere. All in all I think that changes range from bad to random as far as the characters who weren't reworked go. The Kerrigan CD reduction on ults? Ok, well that isn't half her issue and the same with so many other things. I need to mull it over, still mourning Falstad. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 10 2016 04:50 ThomasjServo wrote: I could see a slight tweak to boomerang, but other than that super ok with where he was, time will tell though. We'll see if fly and gusts' utility wins out over the nerfs elsewhere. All in all I think that changes range from bad to random as far as the characters who weren't reworked go. The Kerrigan CD reduction on ults? Ok, well that isn't half her issue and the same with so many other things. I need to mull it over, still mourning Falstad. The thing is that Falstad already could fly in and gust. If Bliz reduces his kill power or ability to lay down damage safely, then bliz is 100% going to hurt his winrates. When Bliz makes all of his talent tiers "where do you get damage?" and "where do you get sustain?", well now he also has no ability to adapt his damage/sustain/mobility to the draft. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
I actually think its the tier 7, which synergise with the "cooldown reduction" thunderclap talent at tier 4. So this way, we have new talents to pick. Which is really NICE!!!! TY BLIZZ | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:11 Foxxan wrote: But they buffed his thunder clup talent at 7, making him more tanky that way. Or maybe its the tier 4. I actually think its the tier 7, which synergise with the "cooldown reduction" thunderclap talent at tier 4. So this way, we have new talents to pick. Which is really NICE!!!! TY BLIZZ The healing static is level 13, so it is competing with burning rage and thunderstrike. Admittedly, it provides an interesting interaction with avatar. All the same, I still think this is an overall nerf to his kit. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Ye you are right, didnt think about the interaction with avatar, but dont forget the interaction with the crowd control talent at 4 also. And while the ptr didnt say anything about muradins battle momentum, it might be 0.75 reduction so kinda nice interaction here. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:23 Foxxan wrote: Ah. Alright. Ye you are right, didnt think about the interaction with avatar, but dont forget the interaction with the crowd control talent at 4 also. And while the ptr didnt say anything about muradins battle momentum, it might be 0.75 reduction so kinda nice interaction here. I could see that, though sacrificing piercing bolt when you anticipate being within thunderclap distance of 2-3 enemies regularly is kind of tough. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:51 snailz wrote: when are we getting another support? 8 or 9 releases since morales? it doesnt have to be a healer, tyrande and tassadar are so unique, why not more of that? I'm guessing that at release medivh would have been a support, but now support means "high number dedicated healer who also has to take cleanse at level 7" | ||
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Talaris
Switzerland760 Posts
On May 10 2016 05:51 snailz wrote: when are we getting another support? 8 or 9 releases since morales? it doesnt have to be a healer, tyrande and tassadar are so unique, why not more of that? Medivh will be coming, just dont mind is official classification of Specialist. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:20 Talaris wrote: Medivh will be coming, just dont mind is official classification of Specialist. But to be a support support, you kind of have to have at least one heal. He is absolutely a support in a lot of ways, but the shield where you don't take damage for sure can't be the only thing. I'm looking forward to a new one as well | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Anub'arak looks overbuffed, think he will be too strong with burrow build but we'll see. Arthas changes look very sweet, i have a feeling Q build will be dominant but curious to find out. Lots of interesting talents at least. Falstad seems to revert to AA build again with this change. Initial feeling is that they have failed again to make aa build and mage build balanced (and making something else an option too). Muradin changes are sweet, slight nerf overall but some new options introduced potentially. Some of the neutral talent changes I'm not so sure about. Battle momentum seems gutted for most heroes, reducing the ultimate was more important than the extra 0.25 seconds for most. The quest talents i don't know if i like yet. I like the fact that they will be picked on less maps now but on the maps you can get them they feel too good. At least for seasoned marksman and regen master. Conj pursuit not so much. Executioner change seems a bit wonky, but should buff the talent. Had rather seen a slight damage buff on it than this. The other tiny tweaks are all fine, although the johanna D one felt so random and unneeded. | ||
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r_gg
141 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:48 Markwerf wrote: Executioner change seems a bit wonky, but should buff the talent. Had rather seen a slight damage buff on it than this. The other tiny tweaks are all fine, although the johanna D one felt so random and unneeded. I think Executioner will be even better for Valla now. With 8 sec CD of Multishot and 2 sec duration of the slow, she can get the buff out for quite a while just by herself. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
On the other hand, that build loses a bit of burst (from 75% bonus to 60%) and the ult cooldown reduction. I'm pretty sure it's a nerf overall. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:40 ThomasjServo wrote: But to be a support support, you kind of have to have at least one heal. He is absolutely a support in a lot of ways, but the shield where you don't take damage for sure can't be the only thing. I'm looking forward to a new one as well ive watched kendricswissh video from PTR after whining for supports, and saw what they did with medivh. i forgot how long the CD for no-dmg thingie is, but yeah, i could see him working out that way, makes sense. i wouldnt mind if they toned down his wave clear (btw that Q looked pretty strong tbh) a bit for reduced cd on no-dmg spell, even if they have to make the duration of the effect smaller (is it 1,5 secs now? 2s? seemed long) | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 10 2016 09:37 Big G wrote: My go to build for Muradin has always been Battle Momentum @7 and Give 'Em the Axe @16. I'm not really sure how it works now, 0.75s cooldown reduction and the Axe change might be enough to keep the AA bonus for several seconds, chaining Stormbolt and Thunderclap. On the other hand, that build loses a bit of burst (from 75% bonus to 60%) and the ult cooldown reduction. I'm pretty sure it's a nerf overall. whyyyyyyy though, stoneform is amazing and even mandatory on Muradin solo tank | ||
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Talaris
Switzerland760 Posts
On May 10 2016 06:40 ThomasjServo wrote: But to be a support support, you kind of have to have at least one heal. He is absolutely a support in a lot of ways, but the shield where you don't take damage for sure can't be the only thing. I'm looking forward to a new one as well Well, snailz explicitly said it does not need to be a healer ... | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
On May 10 2016 16:16 Ej_ wrote: whyyyyyyy though, stoneform is amazing and even mandatory on Muradin solo tank Hardened Shield @20 You're more squishy between 16 and 20 but you hit waaay harder (IIRC exactly like Thrall). | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
TBH Muradin deserved the axe a long time ago so it's good he finally gets it. Too easy to play, and too strong at all levels of play, in all teams, versus all teams. The buff to wells is a really welcome change. I love what they do about high MMR players. I was kinda complaining about it yesterday, a 4k MMR guy who got 2 really bad 2k MMR guys and utterly lost vs us. Now he'll have more chance to win, sure, but the game will be balanced. Nazeebo drops from 10k to 4k, it's a good news as there was really no reason he was more expansive than Zag. It's good they nerfed Rehgar a little, I was waiting for that. He was still too rewarding and too easy to play. Good with all teams, and tier 1 with 2 or 3 other front line heroes. God tier with Xul. I think they should have axed Tyrande's DPS build more than battle momentum, but she's indeed too strong right now. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 10 2016 19:53 snailz wrote: tyrande was fkin gutted last big patch, nerfs all across the board, and she went from 3 extremely different and viable builds to one. i really dont understand why would anyone want to touch her again. untill starfall and other underused ults buffs, i wasnt seeing tyrande in HL at all. even now u kinda gotta take second support / healer tyrande solo is fine probably wont be without battle momentum shadowstalk | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And wow Blizzard you sacrifice a little pandas uniqueness, just so one of your new heroes can work. Way to make me hate Medivh even more. But seriously Herbal brew and the self cure at 7 where the 2 skills that made Lili superb against CC comps. Now Lili is just a not as good Morales >.> . | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
Arthas looks like he has a lot more potential now. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Anub' seems OP as fuck. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
I like that they increased the damage on Anub's talent though, now you can actually play him as Bruiser, he was doing pathetic damage before. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On May 10 2016 20:20 Ej_ wrote: tyrande solo is fine probably wont be without battle momentum shadowstalk i agree completely. thats why i said "kinda" ^_^ reason why i brought it up is that in 9/10 of my games when i want to go solo tyrande my team rages. rank 1 EU, but low MMR | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
But it's not impossible, at the right time against certain heroes and with proper composition Tyrande is still viable as solo support. | ||
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
On May 10 2016 23:15 Ramiz1989 wrote: Anub definitely seems a lot stronger, but I think that new Arthas will outshine him in a lot of aspects. I like that they increased the damage on Anub's talent though, now you can actually play him as Bruiser, he was doing pathetic damage before. Can't wait to try him. Actually before the patch was able to get decent dmg numbers by focusing on his Aoe output. Would build, regen master, AA cleave, Aoe Dmg with Shield, Locus Swarm, Burning Rage, Epicenter, Rewind. Looks like that build was messed up by the placement of shield dmg on 13. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On May 11 2016 03:06 Cyanocyst wrote: Can't wait to try him. Actually before the patch was able to get decent dmg numbers by focusing on his Aoe output. Would build, regen master, AA cleave, Aoe Dmg with Shield, Locus Swarm, Burning Rage, Epicenter, Rewind. Looks like that build was messed up by the placement of shield dmg on 13. Anub is great now and buffed a little too much imo although outshined by Arthas who was buffed to OP even more. Burrow build on Anub is really strong now. Beatle talents not that interesting now imo, not buffed that much. Build imo is: 1: flex 4: underking 7: chitonous plating 10: usually locust unless great cocoon target 13: utricating spines (or bed of barbs if you impale at 1) 16: epicenter 20: flex underking is just so damn good now, diving onto targets is finally hurting. And with epicenter you can have CD down to 4 or 8 seconds easily. | ||
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
On May 11 2016 03:46 Markwerf wrote: Anub is great now and buffed a little too much imo although outshined by Arthas who was buffed to OP even more. Burrow build on Anub is really strong now. Beatle talents not that interesting now imo, not buffed that much. Build imo is: 1: flex 4: underking 7: chitonous plating 10: usually locust unless great cocoon target 13: utricating spines (or bed of barbs if you impale at 1) 16: epicenter 20: flex underking is just so damn good now, diving onto targets is finally hurting. And with epicenter you can have CD down to 4 or 8 seconds easily. Thats great to hear, yeah I felt like the Burrow Build was going to be favored, just due to thats what Anub does best. His Greatest strength was good initiate with out an ult. | ||
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
https://twitter.com/DustinBrowder/status/728640982711869441 | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 12 2016 00:27 Valiver wrote: Woooooooooo! https://twitter.com/DustinBrowder/status/728640982711869441 "we decided to buff her AA by 2 and move ice block to level 21" | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
We will see what plans they have for her, just hoping she won't become new KT. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 12 2016 02:33 karazax wrote: Chromie will be more likely to become new KT. Jaina's changes are likely a month or more out. Soon every game will start with her just using her W from the fountain to damage enemy heroes. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 12 2016 03:42 karazax wrote: https://twitter.com/Trufeel/status/730455419919962113 https://twitter.com/DustinBrowder/status/730456968515588097 That seems rather high compared to sc2 at least. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 12 2016 03:43 ThomasjServo wrote: That seems rather high compared to sc2 at least. it depends, you could get "good" draws in sc2 placements and get diamond after winning vs gold, platinum, platinum, diamong, diamond | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 12 2016 04:43 Ej_ wrote: it depends, you could get "good" draws in sc2 placements and get diamond after winning vs gold, platinum, platinum, diamong, diamond I thought the limit for a fresh set of placement was Platinum and you had to go from there. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 12 2016 04:44 ThomasjServo wrote: I thought the limit for a fresh set of placement was Platinum and you had to go from there. maybe youre right? idk tbh, i think ive read about fresh diamonds and i myself whiffed my first placements in hots and got platinum still ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reddit highlight of Arthaleon clowning himself: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/4iv7nb/arthelon_individual_skillcap_in_hots_is_pretty/ | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Some choice quotes:
Seems like a pretty silly comment. MVP_Black may not be miles ahead mechanically. HOTS by it's design is more difficult to dominate as an individual, but watch Rich in hero league streams and you can't say it's just because he is on a great team with great shot calling and drafting that he is dominant. Arthelon might be able to replicate some of Rich's plays with some practice, but replicating something in practice and replicating it in competitive games isn't the same thing and you still need to put in that hour or more of practice. Certainly other games have higher skill ceilings and some heroes have fairly low skill ceilings, but you aren't swapping any pro player for Rich and getting the same results for each team (even if both pros who were being swapped could fluently speak the other's language). | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On May 12 2016 05:01 Ej_ wrote: maybe youre right? idk tbh, i think ive read about fresh diamonds and i myself whiffed my first placements in hots and got platinum still ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reddit highlight of Arthaleon clowning himself: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/4iv7nb/arthelon_individual_skillcap_in_hots_is_pretty/ Possibly, I don't know it to ever have been confirmed and the last time I placed placed in SC2 was well over a year and change ago. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 12 2016 05:19 karazax wrote: Arthelon says individual skill-cap in hots is pretty much inexistent Some choice quotes:
Seems like a pretty silly comment. MVP_Black may not be miles ahead mechanically. HOTS by it's design is more difficult to dominate as an individual, but watch Rich in hero league streams and you can't say it's just because he is on a great team with great shot calling and drafting that he is dominant. Arthelon might be able to replicate some of Rich's plays with some practice, but replicating something in practice and replicating it in competitive games isn't the same thing and you still need to put in that hour or more of practice. Certainly other games have higher skill ceilings and some heroes have fairly low skill ceilings, but you aren't swapping any pro player for Rich and getting the same results for each team (even if both pros who were being swapped could fluently speak the other's language). I think it would be a lot sillier of a comment if he had posted this opinion on reddit himself. Instead, it's just a few statements he made in the middle of a stream, which is kind of hard to assess the seriousness of. (Especially when he goes on to say he doesn't find the game fun and that he's been waiting for two years for the game to become something he feels is a good game) On the positive side of things, it sounds like he's really enjoying playing for C9 right now. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 12 2016 05:53 FeyFey wrote: Oh I wish there would be no individual skill involved in this game. It would be so much more chill if you only had to make sure team coordinations works fine. I think he is making a statement about skill differences between pro players, not in the general masses. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On May 12 2016 05:57 xDaunt wrote: There isn't really much mechanical skill. The difference at the top is that really good players have superior tactical knowledge and are thus able to optimally leverage their heroes' capabilities and potential. This allows them to be far more aggressive (and succeed at it) than the rest of us. Still you see large differences in mechanical skill amongst the top teams imo. MVPblack is winning much more on mechanics I think then people make it out to be. You see questionable strategic moves from them quite often but they just win 4v5s and that sort of stuff by sheer great mechanics. When i watch them compared to EU or NA games the amount of missed skillshots is quite a bit less. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Make sure you hear Grubby ask how teams should learn Tyrael for pro play. HOTS isn't the most mechanically demanding game by any stretch, but unless you are hitting 100% of your skill shots and dodging 100% of the dodge-able skill shots and always have perfect positioning and perfect timing on when to use your abilities you can't say there is zero room for mechanical improvement or that every pro player does it at the same level. Certainly every game isn't 90% determined by draft as we have casters giving consensus that one team won the draft and then the other team wins the game all the time. Teams want more talented players, and players who have toxic reputations sometimes get another chance because of their talent, see Rich and Erho. It's very fair to say that individual skill plays less of a role in why pro teams win HOTS games compared to other games, but it's not accurate to say every pro player is at the same skill level. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On May 12 2016 05:57 MotherFox wrote: I think he is making a statement about skill differences between pro players, not in the general masses. So he is saying that people who scrim against each other, because they are at the top and the best opponents to train against are fairly even in skill level. Fascinating ! Don't mind me, I just get silly when people state the obvious when talking about "skill". But he should be careful. Things like this can easily turn you into a blame the team person, as a result you feel less inclined to work on yourself and instead of just getting mad at your own mistakes you get mad at your teams mistakes. Which in heroes is 4 times more likely to happen. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 12 2016 11:39 FeyFey wrote: So he is saying that people who scrim against each other, because they are at the top and the best opponents to train against are fairly even in skill level. Fascinating ! Don't mind me, I just get silly when people state the obvious when talking about "skill". But he should be careful. Things like this can easily turn you into a blame the team person, as a result you feel less inclined to work on yourself and instead of just getting mad at your own mistakes you get mad at your teams mistakes. Which in heroes is 4 times more likely to happen. Specifically he was claiming that pro matches are decided by the draft, shot calling, and playstyle synergies--- not raw mechanical skill. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 12 2016 05:19 karazax wrote: Arthelon says individual skill-cap in hots is pretty much inexistent Some choice quotes:
Seems like a pretty silly comment. MVP_Black may not be miles ahead mechanically. HOTS by it's design is more difficult to dominate as an individual, but watch Rich in hero league streams and you can't say it's just because he is on a great team with great shot calling and drafting that he is dominant. Arthelon might be able to replicate some of Rich's plays with some practice, but replicating something in practice and replicating it in competitive games isn't the same thing and you still need to put in that hour or more of practice. Certainly other games have higher skill ceilings and some heroes have fairly low skill ceilings, but you aren't swapping any pro player for Rich and getting the same results for each team (even if both pros who were being swapped could fluently speak the other's language). Yeah, no one in the world is on Rich level. I've always been a proponent that shotcalling and drafting were by far the most distinguishing skills in Heroes of the Storm, but every time I watch Rich play, he wins a lot of fights by just being mechanically better than the other team. EDIT: I also find it a bit funny that he says this while playing Abathur, which he is pretty terrible at. Fan is like 5 tiers above him when it comes to playing Abathur. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On May 12 2016 14:14 SC2John wrote: Yeah, no one in the world is on Rich level. I've always been a proponent that shotcalling and drafting were by far the most distinguishing skills in Heroes of the Storm, but every time I watch Rich play, he wins a lot of fights by just being mechanically better than the other team. EDIT: I also find it a bit funny that he says this while playing Abathur, which he is pretty terrible at. Fan is like 5 tiers above him when it comes to playing Abathur. There is so much wrong with his comments that you don't know where to start... He wants to tell me that there is no difference between Dunktrain and Merryday? Like their understanding of positioning, shotcalling, healing the right targets, understanding how much damage can the target take, movement... is worlds apart. Not to show disrespect to Dunktrain, I like the guy but he can't be compared to Merrday, pretty much no other support player can. Same could be said about Sake or Rich and even Sign... KyoCha's isn't necessarily better than other players but his strength isn't individual skill but versatility when it come to heroes, he can play everything and I think that he is a pro player with most different heroes played in pro games. It is hilarious hearing something like that from Arthelon, it sounds more like a complex than anything else. If he seriously thinks that he is quite delusional. Guy that opened that thread on reddit also asked him about laning and if Rich isn't better than the rest how come he almost always wins a lane? To what Arthelon responded with "there is no laning in hots" yeah of course, sounds like a classical butthurt guy giving half-assed answers. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
So yes, his comments are stupid, but I think born out of salt and frustration rather than sincere belief. The "draft decides 90% of games" etc is exactly the kind of rhetoric that comes from someone who is on tilt. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 12 2016 14:14 SC2John wrote: Yeah, no one in the world is on Rich level. I've always been a proponent that shotcalling and drafting were by far the most distinguishing skills in Heroes of the Storm, but every time I watch Rich play, he wins a lot of fights by just being mechanically better than the other team. EDIT: I also find it a bit funny that he says this while playing Abathur, which he is pretty terrible at. Fan is like 5 tiers above him when it comes to playing Abathur. Heh, he was commenting on bombard strain vs assault strain on the stream, so he was clearly just experimenting I think a part of the problem with this entire discussion is we don't have a definition of "mechanics". Does knowing when you can dive into a fight mechanics? Or is it just the literal ability to press combinations of keys rapidly and "out-micro" an opponent? Typically when I hear mechanics I think of a strong macro game in starcraft, but that doesn't really apply in heroes. If mechanics includes our general term of "gamesense" (knowing when you can dive with illidan, how to be greedy, etc), then it is both a much more difficult thing to define, but clearly there is some difference at the pro level. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On May 12 2016 20:37 Larkin wrote: To be honest, I think Arth is just a salty kinda guy. TBH I don't think he is a very likable person, but I'm basing that off the two or three times I've heard him speak on stream. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On May 13 2016 00:51 MotherFox wrote: Heh, he was commenting on bombard strain vs assault strain on the stream, so he was clearly just experimenting I think a part of the problem with this entire discussion is we don't have a definition of "mechanics". Does knowing when you can dive into a fight mechanics? Or is it just the literal ability to press combinations of keys rapidly and "out-micro" an opponent? Typically when I hear mechanics I think of a strong macro game in starcraft, but that doesn't really apply in heroes. If mechanics includes our general term of "gamesense" (knowing when you can dive with illidan, how to be greedy, etc), then it is both a much more difficult thing to define, but clearly there is some difference at the pro level. My two cents on this. Mechanics is your ability to play the game as efficiently as possible. This translates into precisely and quickly and precisely positioning your char/units, accurately hitting your abilities/spells, quickly splitting/dodging away from harmful effects/abilities, accurately stutter-stepping, focus firing and stutter stepping focusing. Knowing how far you can dive to get a kill is mostly a matter of experience, knowing the damage output of your hero relative to the enemy hero and how much you can dish out before retaliation. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On May 13 2016 02:06 Destructicon wrote: My two cents on this. Mechanics is your ability to play the game as efficiently as possible. This translates into precisely and quickly and precisely positioning your char/units, accurately hitting your abilities/spells, quickly splitting/dodging away from harmful effects/abilities, accurately stutter-stepping, focus firing and stutter stepping focusing. Knowing how far you can dive to get a kill is mostly a matter of experience, knowing the damage output of your hero relative to the enemy hero and how much you can dish out before retaliation. And I think there is a fine line in mechanical skill that separates players. I noticed this in the DH finals, BoE, with Zuna on Kael'thas. It seemed like he didn't miss a gravity lapse. Say an ability has an 8 second cooldown. That means every 8 seconds you could theoretically hit an opponent and do damage/stun/whatever. Putting yourself in a position to make the absolute best use of this is one thing. Actually hitting every single one - or as close to as possible - to ensure that everything is useful, everything has value - that's where real skill lies imo. Anyone can pick up Kael and do a shit load of damage with him. A very select few can hit every single E, position every single Q perfectly, use phoenix perfectly, and so on. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
I don't think that had anything to do with shot calling or the draft. At least one of the "equally skilled" warrior players from NA or EU should be on MVP_Sign's level with Tyrael by now if the mechanics were so simple that an hour of practice would get them there. Maybe by the summer championship they will be. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On May 13 2016 02:32 karazax wrote: There is some grey area on what mechanics encompass, but even at the most basic level of moving your character and hitting skill shots with correct timing, every pro is not at the same level. Positioning is part of mechanics. Body blocking is mechanics. Dodging skill shots is mechanics. Timing your abilities to sync with your team, or to focus the right target the instant they are out of position. Every pro isn't at the same level on those areas. Sure another pro might be able to duplicate Rich's individual moves some of the time with practice, but Rich pulls them off almost all of the time with precise timing during pro games. Pro players lose games all the time just to missing skill shots, poor positioning, or not dodging a critical skill shot by the other team. Even simple mechanical and decision making errors can cost teams a game. iDream basically seals C9's loss in game 5 vs Naventic with his terrible positioning on Sylvanas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaS6-I8ZZnM&t=31m0s I don't think that had anything to do with shot calling or the draft. At least one of the "equally skilled" warrior players from NA or EU should be on MVP_Sign's level with Tyrael by now if the mechanics were so simple that an hour of practice would get them there. Maybe by the summer championship they will be. This. I think it's incredibly silly when these pro's call the draft so important compared to the mechanics and the play. The drafts are extremely predictable and go the same way very often, teams really aren't making the big difference there. Mechanics and teamwork decide the outcome most of the time. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
For instance, mechanics would be maintaining the maximum range of your AA and spells to poke, but decision making would be positioning yourself well so you're not in a position to get dived and destroyed. Landing and dodging skillshots quickly and optimally is mechanics, but when to land these skillshots would be decision making. I dunno, thats kind of how I tend to think about mechanics and decision making and I get the vibe thats how Arthelon is using it. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
If we look at table tennis as an example. Moving your feet is called footwork. How you hold your racket and how you hit the ball is called technique. You separate those two. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Stun durations reduced on a dozen of heroes. Without something in return on the stronger heroes (Xul, Mura, Diablo?) and something in return but still a nerf for Uther, Brightwing, Gazlowe and Sonya. Especially the Leap nerf on Sonya is a joke, that ult was finally rivalling Wrath a little bit on some maps. Now they reduce stun duration by 0.25s but wait, they give 12 extra damage (24 at level 20) in return! Even more weird, perhaps the best stun heroes E.T.C. and Tyrande completely dodge the bullet who were already looking to be the top tank and top support with the upcoming changes. ETC for example was already top 3 tank but Johanna and Muradin got nerfed a fair bit (perhaps Arthas & Anub can compete for top tank though). Tyrande was also top 3 support already but Rehgar got totem nerf and Uther&Tassa got hit by conj. pursuit nerf and now stun nerf for uther.. The idea behind reducing stuns seems fine but the compensation buff for some heroes is a joke. And Illidan, Sonya and Thrall all benefit from lesser stuns in the game by the way while they were already doing really well. Good idea for this patch but some blunders in execution of it imo overlooking some effects. I can certainly understand why they chose to do this, especially with Chromie coming out whose skill of predicting where heroes will be becomes too trivial if there are long stuns all over the place. But they have a good idea with poor implementation too often :< Small hp buffs to Tyrael, Chen and Leoric are nice though. And the nudge down on PTR Arthas and Kael are good as well. (although I think they hit the wrong talent for Arthas). | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 13 2016 07:06 Markwerf wrote: O boy, weird changes just came in. Stun durations reduced on a dozen of heroes. Without something in return on the stronger heroes (Xul, Mura, Diablo?) and something in return but still a nerf for Uther, Brightwing, Gazlowe and Sonya. Especially the Leap nerf on Sonya is a joke, that ult was finally rivalling Wrath a little bit on some maps. Now they reduce stun duration by 0.25s but wait, they give 12 extra damage (24 at level 20) in return! Even more weird, perhaps the best stun heroes E.T.C. and Tyrande completely dodge the bullet who were already looking to be the top tank and top support with the upcoming changes. ETC for example was already top 3 tank but Johanna and Muradin got nerfed a fair bit (perhaps Arthas & Anub can compete for top tank though). Tyrande was also top 3 support already but Rehgar got totem nerf and Uther&Tassa got hit by conj. pursuit nerf and now stun nerf for uther.. The idea behind reducing stuns seems fine but the compensation buff for some heroes is a joke. And Illidan, Sonya and Thrall all benefit from lesser stuns in the game by the way while they were already doing really well. Good idea for this patch but some blunders in execution of it imo overlooking some effects. I can certainly understand why they chose to do this, especially with Chromie coming out whose skill of predicting where heroes will be becomes too trivial if there are long stuns all over the place. But they have a good idea with poor implementation too often :< Small hp buffs to Tyrael, Chen and Leoric are nice though. And the nudge down on PTR Arthas and Kael are good as well. (although I think they hit the wrong talent for Arthas). TO BE FAIR, these aren't official changes. Granted, I'm not sure if there's anything that Blizzard put in the PTR that didn't eventually make it to live, but I think it's probably too early to say that these changes make no sense. I'm all for reducing stuns across the board, but some of these are pretty brutal like Sonya/Uther. Meanwhile, like you said, Tyrande/ETC somehow (??) got through. No idea if they will eventually get the same treatment, though, if Blizzard is nerfing stuns across the board. If not, I just think that emphasizes their roles as stunners and produces more distinct roles across the board. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Is it still top dog or is Psi-Infusion the new mana talent of choice? I get the feeling it's still Conjurer's Pursuit | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Anyway i like this change. It shows me that the way they implemented these stuns in the first place is a flawed design. Should be heroes 2.0 tbh, where they redesing alot of heroes(nothing big or anything). For example, muradins Q stun is his main ability. Now they nerf it. Like, i dont know it just feels wrong in the way that its his main ability. Still i like all stun nerfs, it should not be about stun->stun->dead. So redesign some heroes... But will never happen! | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On May 17 2016 06:24 FeyFey wrote: will take to long to get good with her to change up things soon. So won't affect the Meta. Unless you mean HL Meta, which is every new assassin is op and every new support/tank is meh. I'm talking bout dem balance changes, yo. Falstad is going to be completely different. Anub and Arthas are suddenly legit. Stun lock is suddenly less impactful. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
I'll keep my 12k gold to grab Arthas and 4k gold Nazeebo. | ||
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