EPTGeneral Discussion November 17th Patch - Page 8
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
(No, it's not the highest level of play :p) Hotslogs replay | ||
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On December 01 2015 07:20 Cephiro wrote: Can confirm you can make ridiculous comebacks in towers of doom. Was playing on my alt with my sister and we won a game 40hp vs 1hp from behind.. Still don't know how the hell that happened. (No, it's not the highest level of play :p) Hotslogs replay I can tell you already that your team or composition (or both) was just much better at team fights in the late game, and that's why. That's another issue with Towers of Doom, imo. Your opponents can have a juggernaut composition that is impossible to kill at a certain level (especially if your particular team has no way of dealing with it), and there's nothing you can do about it after that time period except continually lose forced team fights at Altars with little to no real alternatives for scoring points. As an example, take a "Protect the Tank" composition...let's say you run into this in QM. Your opponents have Hammer, Medic, Muradin, Rexxar, and Valla while your team has Leoric, Kharazim, Raynor, Sylvanas, and Arthas. You might win the first few Altars because Arthas and Leoric can get into the fray and quickly eliminate the tank or some of the backline damage, but once you get to level 20 and Hammer has First Aid and/or Stoneskin, Valla has Bolt, Rexxar has Feign Death, and Medic has Caduceus Reactor 2.0 shields, how do you actually kill that stuff? It's near impossible for you to win a straight up fight because you have no strong dive potential and have to rely on the other team making a huge positioning error. On a normal map, you can try things like backdooring or giving up objectives for a boss push, etc., but on Towers of Doom, at some point you run out of options if your team cannot take big fights, and that's problematic. It's an interesting map, but the fact that you cannot base race in any way limits a lot of options in the game at the moment. | ||
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Swisslink
2954 Posts
On December 01 2015 07:18 Ej_ wrote: Gazlowe would be cool if they banned both him and Illidan from HL I kinda like Illidan in Hero League. Normally you get just all the camps throughout the game because uncoordinated teams seem to have a somewhat hard time to counter him (which is just a huge advantage on some maps). He's not the easiest hero to play and he needs a somewhat decent healer to do anything in a teamfight, but I wouldn't agree on a general ban in hero league. Compared to Cho'Gall, Lost Vikings, Azmodan and Gazlowe. Not that TLV are bad, they just suck really hard in a Solo/dual Q game, imo. They might be insanely strong in Team League, not gonna argue about that, but the team just has to adapt too hard to the Lost Vikings presence on the map. Same with Cho'Gall and Azmodan. They just need too specific of a team comp to be viable and you can't really expect that to happen if you're not playing team league. And Gazlowe... well... let's face it, he's easily the worst hero in the game. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On December 01 2015 08:10 SC2John wrote: I can tell you already that your team or composition (or both) was just much better at team fights in the late game, and that's why. That's another issue with Towers of Doom, imo. Your opponents can have a juggernaut composition that is impossible to kill at a certain level (especially if your particular team has no way of dealing with it), and there's nothing you can do about it after that time period except continually lose forced team fights at Altars with little to no real alternatives for scoring points. As an example, take a "Protect the Tank" composition...let's say you run into this in QM. Your opponents have Hammer, Medic, Muradin, Rexxar, and Valla while your team has Leoric, Kharazim, Raynor, Sylvanas, and Arthas. You might win the first few Altars because Arthas and Leoric can get into the fray and quickly eliminate the tank or some of the backline damage, but once you get to level 20 and Hammer has First Aid and/or Stoneskin, Valla has Bolt, Rexxar has Feign Death, and Medic has Caduceus Reactor 2.0 shields, how do you actually kill that stuff? It's near impossible for you to win a straight up fight because you have no strong dive potential and have to rely on the other team making a huge positioning error. On a normal map, you can try things like backdooring or giving up objectives for a boss push, etc., but on Towers of Doom, at some point you run out of options if your team cannot take big fights, and that's problematic. It's an interesting map, but the fact that you cannot base race in any way limits a lot of options in the game at the moment. Honestly don't see how Abathur, Zeratul, Nova, Murky, Jaina is a better teamfight comp lategame than Kerrigan, Leoric, Murky, Falstad, Hammer. Sure, we had damage, but that's the only thing we had. (Well, aside from pushing potential with aba/murky). But for teamfights? There were even triple spawns which should've guaranteed a win for the opposing team (not to mention boss being up multiple times), if they had played it correctly. However as I pointed out, playing with my alt the level wasn't that high and it's understandable that the opposing team didn't know how to capitalize on their advantage. In any proper game that would've been a complete loss easily. (Falstad can fly to an altar further away, they can simply get into a position in time with a 5-man group and protect hammer, our lineup couldn't have done anything about that.) I think there's a fair bit of counterplay available in towers of doom as long as you know how to utilize it. If there's a single shrine that you're guaranteed to lose with a 5v5 fight, just take down a fort and/or mercs meanwhile. Or think ahead and force situations where the enemy team has to react to something so that you're able to cut down on their teamfight advantage before the objective comes up, by possibly winning a smaller fight elsewhere. | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On December 01 2015 08:10 SC2John wrote: I can tell you already that your team or composition (or both) was just much better at team fights in the late game, and that's why. That's another issue with Towers of Doom, imo. Your opponents can have a juggernaut composition that is impossible to kill at a certain level (especially if your particular team has no way of dealing with it), and there's nothing you can do about it after that time period except continually lose forced team fights at Altars with little to no real alternatives for scoring points. As an example, take a "Protect the Tank" composition...let's say you run into this in QM. Your opponents have Hammer, Medic, Muradin, Rexxar, and Valla while your team has Leoric, Kharazim, Raynor, Sylvanas, and Arthas. You might win the first few Altars because Arthas and Leoric can get into the fray and quickly eliminate the tank or some of the backline damage, but once you get to level 20 and Hammer has First Aid and/or Stoneskin, Valla has Bolt, Rexxar has Feign Death, and Medic has Caduceus Reactor 2.0 shields, how do you actually kill that stuff? It's near impossible for you to win a straight up fight because you have no strong dive potential and have to rely on the other team making a huge positioning error. On a normal map, you can try things like backdooring or giving up objectives for a boss push, etc., but on Towers of Doom, at some point you run out of options if your team cannot take big fights, and that's problematic. It's an interesting map, but the fact that you cannot base race in any way limits a lot of options in the game at the moment. I would say feed the Raynor stacks and deny core damage, by taking out forts. And you can zone the enemy out really easily, so it will be hard for them to get both shrines. Sure Enemy team will be tough to beat in a team fight. But the Leoric team has almost no Mana issues. Other side has Valla and Muradin. The moment they run out you won the team fight. But if the Sylvanas goes for envenom, unstable poison crap build you might really lack the damage. On a normal map, Hammer could just siege up and shell down the core at 5 range stacks and force an engagement as well though. I like the map because you can still win the moment you lose one person for free in the lategame. But maybe I seen to many base core rushes lately. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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spritzz
Canada331 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
It didn't work very well, but I give the guy props for being kind of innovative. Of course, he also tried to plant an egg in our base and backdoor a keep, apparently unaware that we can see the egg no matter where it is in our base. | ||
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Mnemic
Botswana80 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On December 02 2015 03:29 FeyFey wrote: I would say feed the Raynor stacks and deny core damage, by taking out forts. And you can zone the enemy out really easily, so it will be hard for them to get both shrines. Sure Enemy team will be tough to beat in a team fight. But the Leoric team has almost no Mana issues. Other side has Valla and Muradin. The moment they run out you won the team fight. But if the Sylvanas goes for envenom, unstable poison crap build you might really lack the damage. On a normal map, Hammer could just siege up and shell down the core at 5 range stacks and force an engagement as well though. I like the map because you can still win the moment you lose one person for free in the lategame. But maybe I seen to many base core rushes lately. I understand the unstable poison talent as very situational, but what pick at lvl 4 does more damage than Envenom? Paralysis is maybe good for pushing builds, Overflowing quiver is useless and rangers ambush is very risky, using the escape for a bit more damage IMO | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On December 02 2015 23:15 Mnemic wrote: Im having trouble deciding which warrior to buy. The last 2 i dont have are stiches and chen. I prefer warriors with more than 1 build. Since i didnt really play Stiches or Chen i really dont know much about them and any comments/recommendations would be helpful. Stitches is good if you can hit his hooks. Otherwise, he's just a big fat wall of HP people will ignore. Most people only play one build on him, but I think he's got some potential for Slam talents now that Hungry for More is an option. I don't really play Chen all that much, but he's probably easier to play and more powerful at the moment. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Chen on the other hand doesn't seem very fun to play, and not very useful IMO. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On December 03 2015 00:31 Leolio wrote: Stitches is a very fun warrior to play because of the hook. On battlefield of eternity he's a monster. But if can't land a hook then you're useless, any other tank is better at their job. Chen on the other hand doesn't seem very fun to play, and not very useful IMO. On December 02 2015 23:50 SC2John wrote: Stitches is good if you can hit his hooks. Otherwise, he's just a big fat wall of HP people will ignore. Most people only play one build on him, but I think he's got some potential for Slam talents now that Hungry for More is an option. I don't really play Chen all that much, but he's probably easier to play and more powerful at the moment. As you can see, opinios on these two differ quite a bit ^^ Me, personally love stitches cause you can really make some plays with Hook and Gorge. Chen can be quite good on some dive heavy comps, you can dive after illidan/ kerrigan and the likes, soak damage for them and shield them while doing quite a bit of dmg | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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