On December 08 2015 21:39 FeyFey wrote: So Thrall isn't bad anymore against CC ? Or are HL picks atm really light on the CC ? Or am I mixing things up. Not really playing Thrall so would be good to know what counters him when he gets popular.
Basically anything that counters melee assassins -- CC, mobility, blinds. The only thing that's making him an all-star right now compared to a lot of the other melee assasssins is that he hits the hardest in the early game and has poke/sustain to stay alive in lane and late game.
1) Rolling Thunder 4) Ride the Lightning 7) Follow Through 10) Sundering 13) [Flex]. Pick Spell Shield if the other team has a mage. Giant Killer if tanks. Restless Wolves can be decent if your team needs a little boost to CC because people are running away. Grace of Air is okay if you need a little more sustain. I take Spell Shield most of the time. 16) Forked Lightning. I will take Giant Killer and Tempest Fury against beefy teams. 20) Nexus Blades or Blink
The core concept is to build around Chain Lightning and Follow Through, which maximizes Thrall's short term burst damage and poke damage. It also makes Thrall's sustain arguably better than a Windfury build. It is unequivocally better in lane, where Thrall can lane against anyone with the Level 1 and 4 CL talents. Best of all, this build is very safe compared to Windfury-centric builds and has a far better power curve (you're beast at level 7 with this build. Windfury builds don't kick in until 16). If anyone over-extends or gets out of position, you can put a huge hurt on them. Use Sundering to engage on the enemy team's flank and push them into your team. If you do it right, you'll often cause the enemy team to be wiped.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
On December 09 2015 00:22 Ej_ wrote: it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Thats the way i played him too in the free rotations and i always felt i die too much. Sure in a 1v1 there are not many who can beat you past lvl 16, but in a TF you'll get one-two-stun-dieded
1) Stats on the internet told me I'm really good with Johanna. 2) I play two games of hero league, drafting Johanna and winning. 3) I now think I'm a Johanna GOD.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Actually, the CL build doesn't do significantly less damage late game. I'd have to check the math, but Windfury builds likely do a little more sustained damage over time. And when I say over time, I'm saying over 8-10 seconds when the second use of Windfury becomes available. However, what really matters for Thrall is the first 3-5 seconds of burst damage. If you properly weave your skills with your abilities, you clearly are going to get a ton more damage out of Thrall with Follow Through than you will with Wind Shear (even presuming you take Tempest Fury at 16 on both builds or if you opt for Chain Lightning at 16). It's not even close. Frankly, I don't think that the pros have really thought Thrall through yet, and are thus not playing him ideally.
And it's not even debatable that CL builds do more damage than Windfury builds before level 16 and provide more utility, more poke, and more sustain.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Actually, the CL build doesn't do significantly less damage late game. I'd have to check the math, but Windfury builds likely do a little more sustained damage over time. And when I say over time, I'm saying over 8-10 seconds when the second use of Windfury becomes available. However, what really matters for Thrall is the first 3-5 seconds of burst damage. If you properly weave your skills with your abilities, you clearly are going to get a ton more damage out of Thrall with Follow Through than you will with Wind Shear (even presuming you take Tempest Fury at 16 on both builds or if you opt for Chain Lightning at 16). It's not even close. Frankly, I don't think that the pros have really thought Thrall through yet, and are thus not playing him ideally.
And it's not even debatable that CL builds do more damage than Windfury builds before level 16 and provide more utility, more poke, and more sustain.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Actually, the CL build doesn't do significantly less damage late game. I'd have to check the math, but Windfury builds likely do a little more sustained damage over time. And when I say over time, I'm saying over 8-10 seconds when the second use of Windfury becomes available. However, what really matters for Thrall is the first 3-5 seconds of burst damage. If you properly weave your skills with your abilities, you clearly are going to get a ton more damage out of Thrall with Follow Through than you will with Wind Shear (even presuming you take Tempest Fury at 16 on both builds or if you opt for Chain Lightning at 16). It's not even close. Frankly, I don't think that the pros have really thought Thrall through yet, and are thus not playing him ideally.
And it's not even debatable that CL builds do more damage than Windfury builds before level 16 and provide more utility, more poke, and more sustain.
I did do the math the other night after you mentioned this on nexus nights-- if we are just looking at followthrough vs wind shear at 7, followthrough clearly does more damage:
40% bonus damage after every ability. One ability has a CD of 6 seconds, others have CD of 12: so in the abstract every 12 seconds you should get 40% bonus damage on 4 attacks. For the sake of simple comparison, I'll call this 8 * 40% bonus damage over 24 seconds.
Windshear's abilitiy is essentially 1.5 bonus autoattacks. With 4 seconds of cooldown reduction, you get 3 uses of it instead of just 2 in a 24 second timespan. So you get a bonus 1.5 autoattacks. (or 150% bonus damage on one auto attack in a 24 second timespan.)
So 8 * 40 = 320% bonus damage vs just 150% bonus damage. Seems like follow through is a clear winner from a dps-over-extremely-unrealistic-periods-of-time-perspective. There are only two other considerations:
* Windshear allows for more movement-bonus-speed-time-up * Follow-through starts giving bonus damage from the very start. Windsheer doesn't give any additional damage until 8 seconds into the fight. (or an engage, then disengage, then reengage.)
Personally I can't see the value of the windsheer build--- it does less initial damage until level 16. (though at 16 your burst in the first 2-3 seconds is better with tempest fury---- but couldn't you just take that with the followthrough build if you really wanted it? windsheer still isn't getting much done.)
Oh shittttt. VP released all players except for CEBKAJE. This month has been huge for team reformation, let's hope they can come back as big as Liquid and Fnatic.
Thrall can be such a pain in the ass till lvl 10 in HL... wow
80% of the games against Thrall my team is behind at the early stages. Specially on maps with early TFs like Cursed. Even when i play Johanna or Mura, i just get melted
99% of the games with Thrall are stomps cause of early leads. I always try to get a gank squad together/ convincing my team.
Did not expect him to have that kind of impact with the scaling changes
EPT
