Cho’gall is a unique new addition to Heroes of the Storm who requires two players to team up, each queuing as either Cho or Gall, in order to play together as one hero.
Learn more about Cho’gall by reviewing the New Hero section below.
Cho’gall Awarded to BlizzCon Attendees
All players who attended BlizzCon 2015, or purchased a Virtual Ticket, will permanently receive Cho’gall in their Hero Collections.
Unlock Cho’gall by Playing with Friends
Cho’gall cannot be purchased using Gold or real money.
Instead, players who don’t own the two-headed ogre can unlock him by completing a brand new Special Event Quest!
Special Event Quest: Cho’gall Buddy Brawl
Win 2 Games as Cho or Gall while partied with a player who owns Cho’gall to permanently unlock the Hero.
Win 4 games as Cho or Gall while partied with players who have not yet unlocked the hero to earn 2,200 Gold.
Those who own Cho’gall may only earn this gold reward once. However, they can still help as many other players unlock the hero as they wish.
Hallow’s End has… Ended!
The Hallow’s End celebration has come to a close, and the following items are no longer available:
The Hallow’s End Special Event Quest can no longer be completed, and the portrait reward it offered can no longer be earned.
The Hallow’s End and Ultimate Hallow’s End Bundles have been removed from the in-game Shop.
New Battleground
Towers of Doom
The Grave Keeper and Raven Lord have risen over a dark and mysterious city, each seeking to add it to the territories under their control. Now, these Realm Lords call upon the aid of Heroes in their battle for dominance over the Towers of Doom.
Please note: Towers of Doom is not currently available in the live version of Heroes of the Storm, as PTR testing has not yet concluded. Click here for more information.
Each Core on this Battleground is surrounded by an indestructible barrier, and cannot be razed by Heroes, Minions, or Mercenaries.
Instead, Heroes must capture the Altars that periodically activate within the city. Upon doing so, each of the Bell Towers controlled by the capturing team will fire a payload that damages the opposing Core.
Bell Tower allegiance is fickle! A Bell Tower that has been destroyed will respawn after a short delay, aligning itself with the team that took it down.
Toppling a Bell Tower not only increases a team’s area of control over the Battleground, but also grants an additional payload in the volleys that fire on the enemy Core after capturing an Altar.
Towers of Doom Available Now on PTR
Towers of Doom is the only Battleground available for play in PTR matchmaking queues.
Battleground pools on the PTR have been reduced so that more thorough Towers of Doom playtesting can be done, and any bugs discovered during this time can be fixed before the Battleground is officially released.
Please note: Towers of Doom will not be available in the live version of Heroes immediately on patch day, but will remain playable on the PTR until playtesting concludes on November 24.
NEW HERO
Cho’gall has been added to Heroes of the Storm! This unique and powerful ogre is two Heroes in one body, requiring that two players team up and queue together as Cho and Gall.
Cho is a Warrior of unmatched might who charges fist-first into battle, controlling movement and Basic Attacks. While Gall cannot move on his own, he is a formidable Assassin armed with a devastating set of dark spells. Read on for a brief overview of their Abilities. CHO
Trait
Two-Headed
Gall is permanently attached to you, going where you go.
Basic Abilities
Surging Fist (Q)
Wind up for at least 1 second, temporarily slowing yourself, then reactivate to charge in a direction. Enemies in your path are knocked aside and take damage.
Consuming Blaze (W)
Ignite nearby enemies, dealing damage over 4 seconds. If this hits an enemy, gain Health over 4 seconds.
Rune Bomb (E)
Roll a bomb that damages enemies in its path. Gall can use Runic Blast (E) to detonate it, dealing damage in an area.
Heroic Abilities
Hammer of Twilight (R)
Passively increases Basic Attack damage by 25%. Activate to swing the Hammer, which deals damage, pushes enemies away, and stuns them for 0.75 seconds.
Upheaval (R)
After 1 second, pull enemies toward your location, slowing them by 25% for 3 seconds and dealing a small amount of damage.
GALL
Mount
Hurry Up, Oaf! (Z)
Increase Cho’s Movement Speed by 60%. This effect decays over 3 seconds.
Trait
Two-Headed
Permanently attached to Cho, going where he goes. You are immune to Stun and Silence effects.
Basic Abilities
Shadowflame (Q)
Deal damage to enemies in a line.
Dread Orb (W)
Throw a bomb that will bounce three times, dealing damage to enemies on each bounce.
Runic Blast (E)
Detonate Cho’s Rune Bomb, dealing damage around it.
Heroic Abilities
Twisting Nether (R)
After 1 second, enemies are slowed by 40% while you channel, up to 5 seconds. Activate to deal damage.
Shadow Bolt Volley (R)
Unleash 20 Shadow Bolts over 4 seconds, each dealing damage to the first target hit. The bolts fire in the direction of your cursor.
ART
General
Tower targeting ring size reduced by 50%
Heroes
Artanis has received improvements for his walk animations Stitches has received additional facial animation polish.
Hero Abilities
The following Hero Abilities and Talents have received visual polish:
Magni Muradin – Storm Bolt (Q)
Imposing Presence (Talent) – Heroes affected by Imposing Presence’s Attack Speed Slow will now display visual effects.
SHOP
Bundles
New Bundles have been added, and are available for a limited time.
Cho’gall has been added to Heroes of the Storm, but cannot be purchased at this time.
Please read the Cho’gall Buddy Brawl section above to find out how to unlock Cho’gall just by playing Heroes of the Storm!
Mounts
New Mounts
Felstalker – Unlocked exclusively by pre-purchasing the Digital Deluxe or Collector’s Edition for World of Warcraft: Legion. Head here for details.
Price Changes
Jaina’s prices have been reduced to 4,000 Gold and $6.49 USD.
Skins
New Skins
Corruptor Cho’gall
Master Cho’gall
USER INTERFACE
General
Party and game invitation pop-ups will now display the inviting player’s portrait frame.
Two-player parties in Hero League Draft Lobbies will no longer receive single pick slots, and will now always select their Heroes on the same turn.
This way, partied players who would like to select Cho’gall can pick Cho and Gall at the same time.
In-Game UI
In-Game Score Screen
The Takedown column on the in-game Score Screen (TAB) has been split into two new columns: Kills and Assists.
Kills can be earned by scoring the final blow on an enemy Hero.
Assists function in much the same way that Takedowns did in previous versions of the game. Any ally that is nearby when an enemy Hero is slain will receive an Assist for that kill.
Minimap
The minimap will now visually indicate when allied Heroes are using Hearthstone to return to the Hall of Storms.
Additionally, a chat message will be displayed whenever an ally activates Hearthstone.This message will not display more than once every 10 seconds.
DESIGN & GAMEPLAY
Scaling Changes
Health and damage scaling for all Heroes, Battleground Events, Minions, and Mercenaries has been changed from flat, additive values to values that are multiplicative by percentage.
A large portion of Heroes’ total scaling amounts, which were previously gained over the course of a game, have been added to their base values.
Please review our recent blog on scaling and respawn timer changes for more details.
Developer Comments: Due to the way that our old level scaling system worked, early game level discrepancies created a larger difference in power level than we liked. This often led to situations where a team could be up two or more levels early in a game, and use this advantage to create a larger lead. We didn’t feel that games were fun for the winning or losing team in these types of scenarios.
As a result of these changes, all Heroes will have more power early, but gain less from each level. Battleground Events, Minions, Mercenaries, and Structures have all been adjusted to compensate for this and should feel close to what they did previously.
The aim of these adjustments to the scaling system is to make level differences have a similar impact on your Hero’s statistics at all points in a game. Now, each level offers about 4% Health and 4% damage, which mirrors what late game leads felt like in our previous version of the game. It is important to note, that while being down a few levels will be less punishing than it was previously, Talent tier advantages can and will still have a noticeable impact on enemy engagements.
Respawn Timers
Respawn timers have been increased for levels 1 – 10.
Developer Comments: In order to reward players for getting early game Takedowns, we’re also increasing the respawn time of dead Heroes at low levels. Now, getting early game Takedowns (and the experience associated with it) won’t give your team as much pure power as it did previously. Instead, early kills will offer a “power play” moment, in which your team can destroy enemy Structures, complete Battleground Events, or take more Mercenaries. These meaningful strategic advantages will position a team closer to victory, without giving them a large stat advantage and the ability to bully the opposing enemy team.
Attack Speed Slows
Attack speed slows now apply only to Heroes and Summons.
Tooltips
Several tooltips that lacked specific details regarding delays, charges gained, etc., have been updated with exact details.
BATTLEGROUNDS
Haunted Mines
This Battleground has been removed from all matchmaking queues for the foreseeable future, but is still playable in Custom Games
Developer Comments: We’ll be adding Towers of Doom to the map pool in an upcoming patch. This will expand the size of our map pool to 10 total Battlegrounds. To prevent the number of maps we have available to players in Quick Match and Hero League from being overbearing, we’ve decided to temporarily rotate out Haunted Mines. We feel the number of maps we have available are reaching a threshold that we may not be comfortable with.
TALENTS
Gathering Power
Hero takedowns now increase Ability Power by 2% per kill, up to a maximum of 30%. All stacks are now also lost upon death.
Developer Comments:We wanted to make Gathering Power a more high risk, high reward talent that encouraged specific gameplay. Now, with a much higher cap, the reward for this talent is much higher. The counterplay becomes the burden of the opposing team, as they’ll need to focus the Hero who has Gathering Power to reset their stacks.
HEROES
ASSASSIN
Falstad
Hammerang (Q)
Conjurer's Pursuit (Talent) removed
Gathering Power (Talent) removed
Power Throw (Talent) moved from Level 1 to Level 4
New Talent (Level 1): Gathering Storm
Permanently increases Hammerang's damage by 1 every time it damages an enemy Hero
Flow Rider (Talent)
No longer decreases Barrel Roll’s cooldown
Now causes Basic Abilities to recharge 100% faster while the Tailwind trait is active
Developer Comments: Our Falstad changes were geared towards supporting Talent diversity. We wanted to make small changes while still providing a meaningful impact. The new and changed talents will add some higher skill options to confident Falstad players.
JAINA
Frostbite (Trait)
Deep Chill (Talent)
Bonus to the Movement Speed slow applied by Chill decreased from 35% to 30%
Developer Comments: Jaina having a 35% slow available at level 1 is very hard to play against, and resulted in a majority of Jaina players picking Deep Chill. This is a small decrease, but has had a positive impact on our playtesting.
ZERATUL
Focused Attack (Talent) removed
New Talent (Level 4): Master Warp-Blade
Every 3rd consecutive Basic Attack against the same Hero deals 100% bonus damage
Developer Comments: Focused Attack was providing Zeratul with a little too much burst damage. Now with the consecutive hit requirement, Zeratul will now gain a more substantial damage boost if he is able to stick to his target for a few seconds.
SUPPORT
Kharazim
Insight (Trait)
Mana regeneration granted on every third hit increased from 12 (+0.21 per level) to 14 (+0.36 per level)
Iron Fists (Trait)
Damage bonus granted on every third hit increased from 100% to 125%
Developer Comments: Most Kharazim players pick Transcendence at level 1, and this is often the most powerful option regardless of the situation. We tuned up the other two options here to help provide Kharazim players with different options.
UTHER
Eternal Devotion (Trait)
Spirit form duration decreased from 10 to 8 seconds
Divine Shield (R)
Cooldown increased from 70 to 90 seconds
Developer Comments: Uther is highly contested at high levels of competitive play, so we wanted to target a few nerfs that would have a larger impact at that level. We also wanted to focus our changes on two abilities that offer very little counterplay for the enemy team.
WARRIOR
Leoric
Drain Hope (W)
Cooldown decreased from 12 to 11 seconds
If Leoric is stunned while casting Drain Hope, the stun will no longer cancel the Ability and the missile will continue to travel
Damage dealt and Health gained reduced from 25% to 20%
Damage and Healing no longer gradually increase over the Ability’s duration, but instead does a consistent amount of damage and healing with each tick.
Developer Comments: We wanted to remove the scaling damage and heal amount on Drain Hope, but knew the change alone would be a significant buff as much of the value is loaded at the end of the ability. In response, we lowered this value by 5% and also reduced the cooldown by 1 second.
REXXAR
Misha (Trait) (D)
Misha's death timer portrait will now appear in the death timer bar while she is respawning
The frequency at which Rexxar's voiceover will play when commanding Misha has been reduced
Misha, Fixate (1) Misha, Fixate has been renamed Misha, Focus!
BUG FIXES
General
Fixed an issue which could cause a team with no Support Heroes to be matched against a team with Support Heroes in the Quick Match queue.
Fixed an issue in which the Auto-Select Hero could occasionally fail to give the player a Support Hero on teams that lacked Supports.
Fixed an issue that could cause French AZERTY keyboards to revert to using QWERTY keyboard hotkeys.
Battlegrounds
The tooltip for the Plant Terror’s Overgrowth Ability no longer states that it does not disable the enemy Core.
Fixed an issue that prevented Hero vision radiuses from displaying on Infernal Shrines and Battlefield of Eternity minimaps.
Heroes and Talents
Abathur can no longer capture objectives at his body’s location while using Ultimate Evolution.
Abathur’s Adrenal Overload Talent now properly increases Monstrosity’s attack speed while it is under the effects of Symbiote.
Ultimate Evolution Clones and Monstrosities will now properly receive the benefits of Abathur’s Volatile Mutation Talent if it is selected after a Summon is already active.
Heroes with the Relentless Talent that become Polymorphed will now properly receive damage from Brightwing’s Unstable Anomaly Talent when Polymorph expires.
The visual effects for Butcher’s Brand will no longer persist on a target that is protected from death by Kharazim’s Divine Palm.
Chen’s Spirit forms will now properly leave Stealth after casting an Ability during Storm, Earth, Fire.
Heroes that are simultaneously struck by Diablo’s Overpower and Stitches’ Hook will no longer be thrown outside the playable area.
A Hero that activates Ice Block while simultaneously coming under the effects of Stitches’ Gorge will now properly retain Ice Block’s visual effects for the duration of the Talent’s effects.
Fixed a bug that could cause Stealthed Heroes to fire a Basic Attack at a nearby enemy immediately after Mounting.
Fixed an issue that could allow Leoric to change direction while using March of the Black King.
Fixed an issue that could cause a Medivac to persist on the battlefield if Lt. Morales was killed while casting Medivac Dropship.
Damage prevented by Lt. Morales' Safeguard will now always be displayed in whole numbers.
The cooldown for Kerrigan’s Ravage will now be properly reset when it is used to destroy an enemy Structure.
Misha can now properly return to Rexxar if she is on the opposite side of an enemy Gate and an open path exists where a Wall was destroyed.
Sonya’s next Basic Attack after casting Ancient Spear will now properly benefit from the Follow Through Talent.
Heal over time and damage over time previews for Tyrande’s Shadowstalk and Kael’thas’ Living Bomb will now more accurately reflect the burst Healing and burst damage amounts at the end of each Ability’s effects.
User Interface
Legendary and Epic Hero Skins are now appropriately labeled as such on the Hero Select screen.
Fixed an issue that prevented mouse-wheel scrolling through the Friends List while browsing the Shop.
Players in Hero League draft lobbies can no longer be invited to join a Real-ID friend’s party.
Well, I got Cho'Gall and played gall one game. It's...interesting. It feels kinda like abathur, but you do have some synergy with your host with your E. Furthermore, some of your talents actualyl improve Cho's abilities instead of yours, and the same goes for him. Definitely an interesting hero, altough I don't know how much fun it will be playing gall. I'll try Cho later today.
I wish there was a way to know the talents the other takes though.
unlocked him, lots of people in chogall channel, more who have him than don't I think right now. Gall can still attack when Cho takes Dragon Knight or Terror.
On November 18 2015 04:46 MotherFox wrote: also, a few things I learned:
cho does have a standard mount you have to select the "Horse (carried)" option before the game starts for him to pick up his mount.
yes also it looks terrifying
How do you guys feel about Cho'Gall + Vikings? I had 2 games on Infernal Shrines were someone picked Cho'Gall so I just got vikings on last pick in both and we crushed.
Cho'Gall is a fucking beast. I've played vs him and two supports and it was not pretty. I'm not sure who really counters him but I'm thinking Murky/Anub'arak with Cocoon to disable him could work well. I feel like both Kael'thas and Jaina got nerfed a bit since there's one less target for their AoE, with Abathur there are only three targets which makes Chain Bomb kinda pointless. And once Cho'Gall hit late game they can just charge in and do ulti stuff and suddenly I lose 80% of my life in 1 second.
On November 19 2015 03:51 Freezard wrote: Cho'Gall is a fucking beast. I've played vs him and two supports and it was not pretty. I'm not sure who really counters him but I'm thinking Murky/Anub'arak with Cocoon to disable him could work well. I feel like both Kael'thas and Jaina got nerfed a bit since there's one less target for their AoE, with Abathur there are only three targets which makes Chain Bomb kinda pointless. And once Cho'Gall hit late game they can just charge in and do ulti stuff and suddenly I lose 80% of my life in 1 second.
in theory he should be a very good target for Leoric's drain and Blood for blood/giant killer, but dunno, haven't played much today
Oh yeah, Blood for Blood just got a ton better. It's like a 100% heal for assassins now lol. I mean Cho'Gall surely has even more HP than Stitches late game.
On November 18 2015 04:46 MotherFox wrote: also, a few things I learned:
cho does have a standard mount you have to select the "Horse (carried)" option before the game starts for him to pick up his mount.
yes also it looks terrifying
How do you guys feel about Cho'Gall + Vikings? I had 2 games on Infernal Shrines were someone picked Cho'Gall so I just got vikings on last pick in both and we crushed.
Vikings do an awesome job of making up for all the weaknesses that Cho'Gall has, mainly his poor synergy with rotation-dependent strategies. I managed to get a single team of 5 against Cho'Gall today, and even though we had a vastly inferior composition, we were just able to out-rotate and out-soak the enemy team because they were lacking that extra body. To me, grabbing Vikings makes a lot of sense, I'll have to try it out.
Killing him seems to be just a matter of separating him from the rest of the team via Void Prison or Maw and focusing him down. He does have a lot of HP, but he has very few ways to actually mitigate damage and he's REALLLLLY easy to bodyblock.
All in all, I've had a lot of success playing him as a lane bully and just clearing waves instantly between Runic Bomb and Gall's abilities, similar to Leoric when he was first released. Rotations needs to be planned out carefully, and if you can help it, never send Cho'Gall alone to clean up a lane when someone else can do it.
Had Chogall + Abathur today. rotation what ? But damn Chogall ult combo is scary. usually pulled in 4 and just exploded them x.x. Pull them in Slow them down and then explode them.
Just curious what the builds will be for Cho & Gall, here are my ideas:
Cho lvl1 Surging Dash usually. The Q is your only escape and a good initiate, longer range on it is really quite nice especially as without mana you should often just use this too to travel a little quicker. Blazing bulwark is alright too but these 'block on skill' talents are often fairly bad I find, you don't actually get that many block stacks of them and you'll usually start a fight without block stacks with this talent, not even being a great counter to heroes that poke you with focused attack that way. I don't think chogalls best way to play is getting down in it either as Gall's skillshots are actually all line attacks you rather stay on the edge so gall's attack will hit more meaning consuming blaze won't be granting massive stacks. Fuel for the flame looks really weak. lvl 4 Rollback seems be doing quite poor damage and runeback is all about the explosiondamage which often counteracts with the rolling damage making this talent mediocre I think Runed Gauntlet and Seared flesh are pretty equal in what they do actually providing more basic attack damage. Runed gauntlet provides 0.75 AA every 8 seconds reliably as you should just be spamming those runebombs and may even go faster with Runic feedback later. Seared flesh gives you 4 secs of 0.25 extra AA which amounts to 4 attacks IF you get to attack the target constantly every 12 secs. Pretty much unless you have attack speed boosters (like frenzied fists) Runed Gauntlet is the pick here I think, especially if you take Runic feedback. lvl 7. Fire eater is quite good giving substantial healing which works nicely with Runed gauntlet. Frenzied fists just seems worse, the extra damage is about the same usually as the extra healing from fire eater but proccing on fists stinks as you often want to keep that up to have an escape. Power surge can be alright if you really need a more reliable escape but the extra healing from Fire eater is too good to pass up usually I think, exception though if they have lots of ways to prevent you from autoattacking much. Fire eater also prevents needlessly having to hearth which is great on a hero without mana that pushes like a boss. For ultimate I prefer Hammer of twilight but it depends mostly on Gall's choice I think. The upheaval combo with twisting nether is pretty obvious and can be fine but I prefer hammer of twilight and shadow bolt, mostly because I think shadow bolt is much better than twisting nether usually. Lvl 13, molten block if you need it. Ice block with upside is often just good, especially as Chogall tends to be the target of every stun out there. Runic feedback is pretty good if you don't need the iceblock though. I am hurrying seems awful by comparison. lvl 16. Twilight veil I prefer her typically but they need to have plenty spell damage. Surge of stamina prevents damage better otherwise although proccing on Blaze is once again better than on fist since you should be using Fist less for fights to keep it up for when you really need it. lvl 20. The ult upgrades are both really nice, and i'd almost always go with them. The will of gall is outshined in defensive power by the positioning C'thun's gift or the damage reduction from Favor of the old Gods I feel. I especially like C'thun's gift here, getting ranged is such a boon for such a clunky character and positioning as on the outside feels better with Chogall often. Gall talents choices. lvl 1. Shadowflare, your spam damage spell hitting more is very helpful. Spurred onward is fairly nice but feels a bit unneccesary as you use that as an out anyway after which you won't be hitting heroes much soon. Scouting talents like Eye still seem mostly unneeded in HotS. lvl 4. Double back seems counterproductive, in a fight the third bounce going back is slightly better than forward maybe but most other times I actually prefer the third bounce going foward because it gives the spell huge range for poking, zoning or sieging. Casually hitting waves while you ride past mounted is what gall should always be doing I feel and double back makes that harder. Siphoning runes feels like the pick here, the healing is quite noticeable and the range upgrade feels unneccesary, the range is huge already (enough to hit buildings without being hit) and for hitting heroes that extra range won't do much since they will be avoiding such long range rune bombs. lvl 7. Prefer double trouble here. I believe the range on shadowflame and consuming blaze is fairly similar and if you respond to the consuming blaze properly you can get 2 procced hits with shadowflame which edges out Edge of Madness i feel. Yes edge of madness does slightly more damage in a prolonged fight but many quarrels are often short and burst damage up front is crucial. Dark descent feels like a bad version of gathering power and not worth taking unless you're stomping AI. Ult. The damage on Shadow bolt volley is too good to pass up mostly. Plus the cooldown is nice and shorter, twisting nether felt lackluster because once again I don't feel ChoGall wants to be smackdown in the middle usually. lvl 13. Dread shield, hitting the first globe with dread orb is fairly easy often and gives a nice shield. A talent like Rising dread relying on hitting the third globe feels pretty lousy. Speed of twlight feels awful, I rather get shields and have cho surviving more however he moves than give him an unreliable speed boost im not even sure he will be aware off. lvl 16. Giant scorcher, this does quite good damage typically, especially vs double frontline which you'll often face. Twilight nova seems pretty poor as those extra globes don't hit all too often. Shove finally has a bit short of a range to be really great, plus it makes it so much harder to use without knowing how Cho will move exactly. lvl 20. Shadowfury is great, this can just obliterate teams and is another reason to prefer shadow volley I find. Psychotic break doing something mediocre on CHogall dying seems like a poor talent, if Chogall dies at this stage you tend to be lost anyway. The nether suffers a problem that almost every hero will be having bolt of the storm or hardened skin at level 20 which makes them counter this sort of ultimate upgrade too easily. Just my opinions, overall I feel Gall seems pretty straightfoward how to talent except the level 7 choice. Cho has harder choices, especially curious what his ult of choice will be, as both seem alright and both have good ult upgrades.
since chogall have a few intervined talents they have a few viable builds. Level 16 on gall is awesome push cho ! did some funny tricks with it already.
But damn with a bit of team work no one can escape cho gall.
Now that I think of it I have not once been sped up by my 2 gall's in 7 games. Also I don't think I have ever seen an enemy cho'gal with the speed boost.
Cho'Gall makes me not want to play this game until the hype subsides. I actually had a quick match where my team didn't have Cho'Gall and then other team did. We wound up winning, much to my elation.
Rollback actually is pretty useful if you can coordinate with your partner. You can pull off cool maneuvers like throwing a bomb out and when the enemy swerves to dodge it you can surge to him on the return to force the bomb to track to his location.
On November 19 2015 08:48 RaiKageRyu wrote: Rollback actually is pretty useful if you can coordinate with your partner. You can pull off cool maneuvers like throwing a bomb out and when the enemy swerves to dodge it you can surge to him on the return to force the bomb to track to his location.
Yes better than I initially thought, still prefer runed gauntlet especially with fire eater. With power surge though rollback could be sweet.
I see a lot of people talking about Twilight Hammer, maybe I am missing something but Upheaval to me looks like one of the most game breaking heroics with that range, aoe and just 60 seconds cooldown. It has a great synergy with a lot of other heroes like Jaina, Kael'Thas, ETC, Kerrigan...
On November 19 2015 11:04 Zambrah wrote: what are three ideal heroes to stomp the hell out of cho'gall?
I'm thinking like Raynor/Morales/Valla for Giant Killer madness?
Been taking down Cho'Galls with Illidan without much trouble. On level 1 he can't do jack and since everyone wants to duel you I've gotten a few early kills. You can avoid his ultis pretty easily later on except the smash one, other than that he has no cc. I'm sure skilled Cho'Galls with good synergy can take down Illidan as well but most won't be like that, especially now when no one knows what talents to take.
On November 19 2015 11:04 Zambrah wrote: what are three ideal heroes to stomp the hell out of cho'gall?
I'm thinking like Raynor/Morales/Valla for Giant Killer madness?
%based attacks and CCs are the counter to ChoGall. They are both more effective than normal.
%based attacks makes Leoric, Kharazim, Raynor, and Hammer great against them. Valla, Tychus, Illidan and Thrall have giant killer too and i'd probably take it on them against Chogall but I don't think it's their ideal talent normally and they aren't as good of a counter to ChoGall. How hard of a counter these %based attacks are is overrated by people, ChoGall does not have more HP than a stitches stacking globes really, still they are good but they don't instantly make ChoGall useless.
Good single target CC like Anub'araks Cocoon is also crazy good against him. Cocoon just becomes a 2-person void prison, and after it pops you can often nuke ChoGall. Other CCs like brightwing greater polymorph is fairly good too. Shrink ray is also fantastic against ChoGall, making uther and lili who naturally have this better.
The damage Gall can dish out is incredible! Score screens numbers are of the charts. Sure, most is poking damage but still. With no need to mana management you basically never have to hearth back.
probably took the wrong ults then, though the team fight ults are easier to use together and way more fun. And people been playing him for a few days needing two players actually. And everyone prolly just farming the reward. Can't belief they really made it a pyramid scheme it would have been such a good way to introduce new players. So everyone will be bad with him.
Leoric is super evil though, unless you have a Gall on your side that dodges every of his ghost grips post 16. Against Kharazims Seven sided strike you simple use your charge and let Gall kill the monk while you just wait to dodge the strike. Later on you use your magma block thingie. Raynor has no gap closer, so he gets to play dance dance revolution against Gall. Aka dodge all the voidzones Galls throws at you. Haven't seen a good Butcher the ones I did see used their mark at the wrong time. I lost some 2v2s so far. But no 1v2. Won some 4v2s too though. But Chogall is better in team fights anyway. Atleast until the moment Anub gets in ult range lol. So I really get the being the Raidboss vibes while playing him.
I love how they decide on your ingame name <3. I also like how ChoGall can block some chokes all by themself. But don't play him in Heroleague until Ban system is enabled. Anub pick just instant wins the game o.o; (unless you have a stim drone Raynor on your side)
Chogall feels slightly OP at this point, requiring one person to maneuver him so he's super slippery and one person to spam and aim abilities, I'm not a fan of the design at all, let's not try to make Archon mode for everything. It's a moba lol
Also a few champs really need a talent tune up and Blizzards hesitance to change them is starting to become aggravating, Arthas while not necessarily weak is replaced by Leoric in pretty much every regard, seriously, Leoric is an offtank bruiser like Arthas but has great escape, great sustain, the ability to initiate and excellent wave clear with his Q.
Leoric also has a well designed talent tree where multiple talents are viable and strong (Choosing Ghastly reach over Renewal, Drain Momentum over Burning Rage) where Arthas has pretty much two builds, Bruiser build which sucks unless there is a Muradin on your team to actually soak damage or full tank build where your still not all that tanky and your damage is ridiculous gimped.
Sad to see other champs getting the Stitches treatment where they pretty much have to fall completely out of the meta for Blizzard to touch them.
Chen as well, little purpose other then damage sponge and completely linear, Gazlow is useless in team fights and is bullied by pretty much everyone in lane.
On November 20 2015 04:16 Beelzebub1 wrote: Chogall feels slightly OP at this point, requiring one person to maneuver him so he's super slippery and one person to spam and aim abilities, I'm not a fan of the design at all, let's not try to make Archon mode for everything. It's a moba lol
Also a few champs really need a talent tune up and Blizzards hesitance to change them is starting to become aggravating, Arthas while not necessarily weak is replaced by Leoric in pretty much every regard, seriously, Leoric is an offtank bruiser like Arthas but has great escape, great sustain, the ability to initiate and excellent wave clear with his Q.
Leoric also has a well designed talent tree where multiple talents are viable and strong (Choosing Ghastly reach over Renewal, Drain Momentum over Burning Rage) where Arthas has pretty much two builds, Bruiser build which sucks unless there is a Muradin on your team to actually soak damage or full tank build where your still not all that tanky and your damage is ridiculous gimped.
Sad to see other champs getting the Stitches treatment where they pretty much have to fall completely out of the meta for Blizzard to touch them.
Chen as well, little purpose other then damage sponge and completely linear, Gazlow is useless in team fights and is bullied by pretty much everyone in lane.
Disappointing patch.
They just implemented pretty huge changes with all of the scaling and death timer changes, so completely reworking talent trees or making big balance changes would be too much at this point while still trying to maintain game balance at the highest levels. We'll probably see more changes to Heroes that have been knocked out of the meta in the future once the scaling changes settle and a better balance is established.
(Also, you're just completely wrong about Arthas, and he's actually been a higher priority than Leoric for most of the past month in professional games, but we won't talk about that).
As for Cho'Gall, he is kinda crazy at the moment, but there are a few Heroes who actually just destroy him (Butcher/Sonya/SSS Kharazim). Also, it's pretty easy to just outrotate him and gain a really easy lead, especially if you have a team of 5. I don't think he'll be viable in pro play anytime soon for that reason alone.
As a sidenote: I do kind of like how chaotic he feels at times...bombs and shit everywhere :D.
On November 20 2015 04:16 Beelzebub1 wrote: Chogall feels slightly OP at this point, requiring one person to maneuver him so he's super slippery and one person to spam and aim abilities, I'm not a fan of the design at all, let's not try to make Archon mode for everything. It's a moba lol
Also a few champs really need a talent tune up and Blizzards hesitance to change them is starting to become aggravating, Arthas while not necessarily weak is replaced by Leoric in pretty much every regard, seriously, Leoric is an offtank bruiser like Arthas but has great escape, great sustain, the ability to initiate and excellent wave clear with his Q.
Leoric also has a well designed talent tree where multiple talents are viable and strong (Choosing Ghastly reach over Renewal, Drain Momentum over Burning Rage) where Arthas has pretty much two builds, Bruiser build which sucks unless there is a Muradin on your team to actually soak damage or full tank build where your still not all that tanky and your damage is ridiculous gimped.
Sad to see other champs getting the Stitches treatment where they pretty much have to fall completely out of the meta for Blizzard to touch them.
Chen as well, little purpose other then damage sponge and completely linear, Gazlow is useless in team fights and is bullied by pretty much everyone in lane.
Disappointing patch.
They just implemented pretty huge changes with all of the scaling and death timer changes, so completely reworking talent trees or making big balance changes would be too much at this point while still trying to maintain game balance at the highest levels. We'll probably see more changes to Heroes that have been knocked out of the meta in the future once the scaling changes settle and a better balance is established.
(Also, you're just completely wrong about Arthas, and he's actually been a higher priority than Leoric for most of the past month in professional games, but we won't talk about that).
As for Cho'Gall, he is kinda crazy at the moment, but there are a few Heroes who actually just destroy him (Butcher/Sonya/SSS Kharazim). Also, it's pretty easy to just outrotate him and gain a really easy lead, especially if you have a team of 5. I don't think he'll be viable in pro play anytime soon for that reason alone.
As a sidenote: I do kind of like how chaotic he feels at times...bombs and shit everywhere :D.
That's a reasonable retort, Arthas is always picked in pro play and I hardly ever see him do well, and when he does "well" it's because the team coordination was real and they capitalized hard on his strengths, I'm not trying to argue I've played Arthas to 13 and he is one of my all time favorite heroes to play, I just play alot of Leoric as well so I see the side by side comparisons on a daily.
On November 20 2015 04:16 Beelzebub1 wrote: Chogall feels slightly OP at this point, requiring one person to maneuver him so he's super slippery and one person to spam and aim abilities, I'm not a fan of the design at all, let's not try to make Archon mode for everything. It's a moba lol
Also a few champs really need a talent tune up and Blizzards hesitance to change them is starting to become aggravating, Arthas while not necessarily weak is replaced by Leoric in pretty much every regard, seriously, Leoric is an offtank bruiser like Arthas but has great escape, great sustain, the ability to initiate and excellent wave clear with his Q.
Leoric also has a well designed talent tree where multiple talents are viable and strong (Choosing Ghastly reach over Renewal, Drain Momentum over Burning Rage) where Arthas has pretty much two builds, Bruiser build which sucks unless there is a Muradin on your team to actually soak damage or full tank build where your still not all that tanky and your damage is ridiculous gimped.
Sad to see other champs getting the Stitches treatment where they pretty much have to fall completely out of the meta for Blizzard to touch them.
Chen as well, little purpose other then damage sponge and completely linear, Gazlow is useless in team fights and is bullied by pretty much everyone in lane.
Disappointing patch.
They just implemented pretty huge changes with all of the scaling and death timer changes, so completely reworking talent trees or making big balance changes would be too much at this point while still trying to maintain game balance at the highest levels. We'll probably see more changes to Heroes that have been knocked out of the meta in the future once the scaling changes settle and a better balance is established.
(Also, you're just completely wrong about Arthas, and he's actually been a higher priority than Leoric for most of the past month in professional games, but we won't talk about that).
As for Cho'Gall, he is kinda crazy at the moment, but there are a few Heroes who actually just destroy him (Butcher/Sonya/SSS Kharazim). Also, it's pretty easy to just outrotate him and gain a really easy lead, especially if you have a team of 5. I don't think he'll be viable in pro play anytime soon for that reason alone.
As a sidenote: I do kind of like how chaotic he feels at times...bombs and shit everywhere :D.
That's a reasonable retort, Arthas is always picked in pro play and I hardly ever see him do well, and when he does "well" it's because the team coordination was real and they capitalized hard on his strengths, I'm not trying to argue I've played Arthas to 13 and he is one of my all time favorite heroes to play, I just play alot of Leoric as well so I see the side by side comparisons on a daily.
I am by no means a pro, in fact I'm terrible.
Hahaha, I may be over-opinionated when it comes to Arthas. I love him in his current iteration, but I can see some reworks coming for him down the line. I can understand where you're coming from.
On November 20 2015 04:16 Beelzebub1 wrote: Chogall feels slightly OP at this point, requiring one person to maneuver him so he's super slippery and one person to spam and aim abilities, I'm not a fan of the design at all, let's not try to make Archon mode for everything. It's a moba lol
Also a few champs really need a talent tune up and Blizzards hesitance to change them is starting to become aggravating, Arthas while not necessarily weak is replaced by Leoric in pretty much every regard, seriously, Leoric is an offtank bruiser like Arthas but has great escape, great sustain, the ability to initiate and excellent wave clear with his Q.
Leoric also has a well designed talent tree where multiple talents are viable and strong (Choosing Ghastly reach over Renewal, Drain Momentum over Burning Rage) where Arthas has pretty much two builds, Bruiser build which sucks unless there is a Muradin on your team to actually soak damage or full tank build where your still not all that tanky and your damage is ridiculous gimped.
Sad to see other champs getting the Stitches treatment where they pretty much have to fall completely out of the meta for Blizzard to touch them.
Chen as well, little purpose other then damage sponge and completely linear, Gazlow is useless in team fights and is bullied by pretty much everyone in lane.
Disappointing patch.
They just implemented pretty huge changes with all of the scaling and death timer changes, so completely reworking talent trees or making big balance changes would be too much at this point while still trying to maintain game balance at the highest levels. We'll probably see more changes to Heroes that have been knocked out of the meta in the future once the scaling changes settle and a better balance is established.
(Also, you're just completely wrong about Arthas, and he's actually been a higher priority than Leoric for most of the past month in professional games, but we won't talk about that).
As for Cho'Gall, he is kinda crazy at the moment, but there are a few Heroes who actually just destroy him (Butcher/Sonya/SSS Kharazim). Also, it's pretty easy to just outrotate him and gain a really easy lead, especially if you have a team of 5. I don't think he'll be viable in pro play anytime soon for that reason alone.
As a sidenote: I do kind of like how chaotic he feels at times...bombs and shit everywhere :D.
That's a reasonable retort, Arthas is always picked in pro play and I hardly ever see him do well, and when he does "well" it's because the team coordination was real and they capitalized hard on his strengths, I'm not trying to argue I've played Arthas to 13 and he is one of my all time favorite heroes to play, I just play alot of Leoric as well so I see the side by side comparisons on a daily.
I am by no means a pro, in fact I'm terrible.
Hahaha, I may be over-opinionated when it comes to Arthas. I love him in his current iteration, but I can see some reworks coming for him down the line. I can understand where you're coming from.
Some form of even soft escape would be totally amazing, if one talent instead of the stupid 3 mana reduction (I know some people swear by it but it's pretty unconventional in my opinion especially at pro level play) maybe it could increase movement speed a bit? So any hero trying to close in on Arthas is not only getting the slow from his E but he is going slightly faster? I don't know, I feel his main lacking is his complete commitment to a fight if he takes one, it kinda works on Butcher but Butcher pumps out way more single target DPS but I still feel Butcher is gimped in the competitive scene because his lack of a retreat.
Appreciate that you weren't too aggressive I was trying hard not to lol
I totally love Arthas as a champ still but he could just be better.
I haven't played a lot of Arthas, but I like him a lot actually. Interesting and fun to play bruiser. In my opinion he has his spot and I wouldn't like him to become a standard as that is terribly boring. He doesn't need a buff(or at least not that big) but definitely needs tier rework, he has barely any choices and even where you do, they are not really interesting.
On November 20 2015 09:45 Ramiz1989 wrote: I haven't played a lot of Arthas, but I like him a lot actually. Interesting and fun to play bruiser. In my opinion he has his spot and I wouldn't like him to become a standard as that is terribly boring. He doesn't need a buff(or at least not that big) but definitely needs tier rework, he has barely any choices and even where you do, they are not really interesting.
Would like to see him be a little bit different.
I love Arthas and you said it completely correct, he has his spot and doesn't need to be like tier 1 picked or banned every game but the tiers are just so bad, like you said no choices suck and leads to linear and predictable play with little strategy.
Still getting used to the new patch, some of the changes really mess with things a lot. With the new scaling, seasoned marksman and the regen talents got a lot worse; their effect in the early game is a lot weaker, and they're no better than they used to be later on. I'm thinking they shouldn't have done any hero changes in the same patch as the scaling changes, because the scaling change alone messes with SO much, it'd be easier to see the effects it had if there were no confounding variables.
Thrall is so good now. I've been carrying games very hard with him, consistently leading in all of the important metrics. He just wrecks people in the early game with his new scaling. I've snowballed a number of games just by roaming and getting some good early ganks. My go-to build has been a standard CL build, but I'll sometimes go windfury/giant killer if facing a beefy team. And of course, don't forget that Sundering takes care of all of those pesky channeling heroics -- particularly Lili's.
On November 20 2015 14:20 zlefin wrote: Still getting used to the new patch, some of the changes really mess with things a lot. With the new scaling, seasoned marksman and the regen talents got a lot worse; their effect in the early game is a lot weaker, and they're no better than they used to be later on. I'm thinking they shouldn't have done any hero changes in the same patch as the scaling changes, because the scaling change alone messes with SO much, it'd be easier to see the effects it had if there were no confounding variables.
Agreed. I don't understand the point of balancing heroes while indirectly changing all 45 heroes with the scaling changes.
Is Cho'Gall really considered a strong hero? I really don't think so, tbh. He might be the strongest hero in the game, which he HAS to be by a huge margin, because he takes two slots. But somehow I doubt that he's strong enough to replace 2 heroes. Especially during the laning phase, I feel like you're pretty much screwed with a Cho'Gall in your team.
He's so much fun to play , no doubt about that, but so far I'm still wqiting to see a Cho'Gall winning a game beside a QM where both teams had him.
On November 20 2015 18:21 Swisslink wrote: Is Cho'Gall really considered a strong hero? I really don't think so, tbh. He might be the strongest hero in the game, which he HAS to be by a huge margin, because he takes two slots. But somehow I doubt that he's strong enough to replace 2 heroes. Especially during the laning phase, I feel like you're pretty much screwed with a Cho'Gall in your team.
He's so much fun to play , no doubt about that, but so far I'm still wqiting to see a Cho'Gall winning a game beside a QM where both teams had him.
we haven't really seen pros play him and they are the ones who could milk the most out of the hero. I imagine he could do a buttload of damage if Cho and Gall work together well, but probably will end up being a niche pick in the pro scene because of worse map presence.
I find interesting that you can counter Cho Gall without facing him at all. I mean, just pick 2 or 3 heavy pushers and push all you can. Murky because he can die and he has less chance of his egg being found since it's only 4 bodies in the opposite team and they CANNOT get Nova to hunt the egg (we did it and it was awful even though we won) and even Zeratul is too risky. Zagara with nydus and creep talents Leoric or Tassadar because of their wonderful escapes or simply Asmodan who can push without much risks
With these, if you manage to not feed, you should just crush them on a 3 lane map.
Valla (or Raynor) Both of these heroes can shred through a Cho’gall after getting Giant Killer. While Valla has the advantage of a higher attack speed and mobility options, a Raynor with a high amount of Seasoned Marksman stacks will get through him even quicker.
Leoric The skeleton king’s has both damage and tankiness on his side. Drain Hope can be upgraded to deal up to 30% of the targets max HP – which absolutely wrecks a Cho’gall.
Brightwing Unlike Uther, Brightwing’s CC affects both heads as opposed to just one. Combined with her immense mobility options and strong healing output, the little faerie dragon can easily abuse the big ogre.
Kharazim Honestly, many people overestimate how good Kharazim is against Cho’gall. The power in Kharazim is making Cho’gall use resources at times he may not want to. A good Cho’gall will Molten Block Kharazim’s Seven Sided Strike, or anticipate it and Surging Fist out. Not having that resource later, or making Cho’gall Molten Block at a key time in a fight, can be very damaging to the enemy team.
I had good luck with Sonya too so far. hotslogs.com shows Cho'gall with by far the lowest win rating at the highest levels at only 21.1% and only 23.1% over all.
Well Leoric can be played as solo tank but he definitely isn't on par with Muradin or Johanna regarding solo tanking potential. I would still say that he is a bruiser(at least pro players refer to him that way), but unlike most other bruisers he doesn't want to dive into backline and is a frontline killer. In short he is a bruiser that kills other Warriors/Tanks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/498784-kingcaffeines-leo-tips
About standard heroes, if Arthas became standard hero that we see every(or even every third) game, he would become boring really fast... A lot of "new" meta heroes were awesome at first(ETC, Tyrande, Sonya for example) but now I am seeing them every game in HL/TL and they are not so exciting now. I really love heroes that appear once in a while and are quite situational, but in the right situation wreck enemy team if they are not prepared for them.
Team DK has had great success with Arthas. I think SCSC was undefeated on him prior to losing in Worlds. He is a lot more reliant on not making any positional mistakes though compared to Leoric. And of course when you die on Leoric it's less punishing. I think he is fine power wise, but he could use some tweaks to make his viable talent choices more diverse.
Another game vs cho Gall in HL. Again we won, in spite of our illidan who was really terrible at illiying. I think they should ban him from HL right now.
Yep, I'd agree there atm. Had a game yesterday with a sylvanas that was mainly afk throughout the game (less siege and hero dmg than me as Malf) and we still won easily because it never felt like we were outnumbered whatsoever. I really haven't seen a Cho'Gall team winning a game yet.
Oh, just lost the first time against a Cho'Gall in HL. ... was a close one, although we played 4v5 all game long, because one player kept rejoining just to go afk again. Seems the way to lose a game.
On November 18 2015 04:46 MotherFox wrote: also, a few things I learned:
cho does have a standard mount you have to select the "Horse (carried)" option before the game starts for him to pick up his mount.
yes also it looks terrifying
How do you guys feel about Cho'Gall + Vikings? I had 2 games on Infernal Shrines were someone picked Cho'Gall so I just got vikings on last pick in both and we crushed.
guys :[[, just need a map where someone can soak for chogal while he sits on objective with the other 2 players. I later had a game on Dragon Shires with Cho`Gall+TLV and that 1 was a complete disaster because of the nature of the objective there.
Playing Chogall in HL is a coin throw of if the enemy takes anub, otherwise if the map is small Cho'gall will reign supreme. Especially atm because everyone wanted to test their 1v2 skills lol. And no one can 1v2 Chogall >.> .
Had to take the plant terror today, Gall can skill use q and w ability, freaking awesome XD. Made everyone low, then plopped out of the terror and wombo comboed a whole team XD.
On November 21 2015 06:20 Yun-Kun wrote: When I'm looking at the Monk change I feel like they don't understand why you have to get the heal on hit rather than mana or damage.
They should make the heal solo-target, the mana double-target and the damage hit as an AoE if they want to see some other things being played.
And yet, Lowell made bruiser Kharazim work! What a man.
I did a test in a single player custom game: jaina can quite readily keep two lanes cleared and pushing a bit (with no enemy heroes present) from level 1. Not sure if that has any relevance in regular play, but it may, letting her play like a specialist focusing on team xp.
On November 18 2015 04:46 MotherFox wrote: also, a few things I learned:
cho does have a standard mount you have to select the "Horse (carried)" option before the game starts for him to pick up his mount.
yes also it looks terrifying
How do you guys feel about Cho'Gall + Vikings? I had 2 games on Infernal Shrines were someone picked Cho'Gall so I just got vikings on last pick in both and we crushed.
guys :[[, just need a map where someone can soak for chogal while he sits on objective with the other 2 players. I later had a game on Dragon Shires with Cho`Gall+TLV and that 1 was a complete disaster because of the nature of the objective there.
Yeah I think Dragon Shire is probably Cho'Gall's weakest map. Any combination where you can get solid push/xp, support and lockdown alongside Cho'Gall is super, super strong. Rehgar is really good with them with ancestral, same with Kharazim - the protective shield is amazing for them since it's 10% of max health and Cho'Gall has a fuckload of max health.
I dread to envision how good TLV with Cho'Gall must be. Christ.
I once tried cho'gall in solo HL. The gall guy never once used "Z" for the speedboost. Makes me kinda mad when i think about it. We lost but i dont think it was cuz of cho'gall pick.
This hero has potential i believe but both players need to play good and probably some synergy needed which is good, cuz thats what the hero is about in the first place.
most people don't know gall can use Z ... as its blocked when you are mounted. My gall didn't knew ... and when we switched I was like dood we have a speed boost, finally i know what those talents on cho were for !
I find Chogall pretty strong on Dragonshire... you sit botlane push and push and deny the objective, while the enemy team is like what do we do ? we are getting pushed by an Azmodan without mana issues. I mean with the right timing you clear the enemy wave the moment it reaches the gate. Dealing damage to towers and gate as well.
On November 22 2015 09:58 zlefin wrote: I did a test in a single player custom game: jaina can quite readily keep two lanes cleared and pushing a bit (with no enemy heroes present) from level 1. Not sure if that has any relevance in regular play, but it may, letting her play like a specialist focusing on team xp.
Jaina is often used for this in pro games where 2 lanes are close to each other. In regular play those rotations can be quite scary if you are alone. On Black Hearts Bay you can do it top and mid if you control the vision. But in that case you do lose a bit of soak, with enemies on the lane. So its better to have people constantly on lane. Jaina can help heroes in 2 lanes with a bad waveclear though.
I think Cho'Gall has similar issues to Abathur on Dragonshire. You just lack a body for the objectives. Normally, a Cho'Gall just does not win a "Cho'Gall vs 2" encounter, imo. He beats almost everyone in "1v1" (well, Cho'Gall vs 1... basically 2v1, but whatever), but that's not gonna happen on Dragonshire, imo.
On November 23 2015 19:45 Swisslink wrote: I think Cho'Gall has similar issues to Abathur on Dragonshire. You just lack a body for the objectives. Normally, a Cho'Gall just does not win a "Cho'Gall vs 2" encounter, imo. He beats almost everyone in "1v1" (well, Cho'Gall vs 1... basically 2v1, but whatever), but that's not gonna happen on Dragonshire, imo.
If anything, I think Abathur is better than Cho'Gall on Dragonshire due to his global presence. Symbiote lets Abathur instantly apply pressure to any lane. While this isn't as a good as having an extra body in the early game, it is certainly better than Cho'Gall.
you don't win a 2v2 with Cho'gall if you go in guns blazing thats right. But you carry a poke hero around that has no mana pool and you have 2 escapes. And as soon as only 1 hero is around you start murdering a fort. Also Dragonshire has 2 close lanes, so not a real rotation problem for Chogall and top lane has the bridge before the keep, which is basically a die for free to cho'gall ults. And you can clear mid lane without really leaving bot :x . Yeah you won't get the Dragon, but you don't need it x3.
But in any case, most Cho'galls will go top lane and try to push alone. Which means you basically get 1 QM azmodan for the price of 2 !
I try keeping his QM winrate up ! But I can only play so many games ;_; , especially since my Gall needs a break after 2 hours of me yelling at him ^^;.
Tyrande currently number 1 .... I don't like this, because I felt like she was totally fine before her ult rework few weeks ago and now she might receive a nerf if she stays number 1 for too long. We'll see..
You can pretty much ask in any chat channel and someone will probably help as many people have not completed the play 4 games with someone who doesn't have Cho'gall for 2k gold quest.
Has anyone else noticed some absurd changes in Versus AI? I play Versus AI a lot when I only have a short amount of time and want to just bang out the quests. Ever since the new patch, I've gotten a ton of AI heroes that were never available (abathur, murky, etc.) and the AI just doesn't listen anymore to pings. I literally just lost my first Versus AI ever because I ended up with an abathur and a murky, neither of which did anything all game, and no one responded to pings. It was really annoying.
AI games are fuckin miserable, I ALWAYS get a Nova that sits unstealthed laning and is just horrifically suicidal and I only play AI to get the hang of my new supports so naturally I can never properly carry to make up for it.
I dunno what it is about the AI but its real heinous
If you set abathur AI to follow you, he will literally follow you, usually resulting in death before he even reaches you. If I need to play quick games vs AI I still usually play with human team mates. Also playing vs beginner AI gives your team beginner AI too.
Don't bash the AI too much; Blizzard never had good AI in anything. In Hearthstone the bots that are farming wins on ladder are better programmed than the bosses in Adventure Expansions.
Yeah you can ask in almost any chat channel in game and chances are there are lots of people who need the 4 games with someone who doesn't have cho'gall quest for 2k gold. if for some reason that is not working let me know, but I already did the quest so I hate to deny someone who needs it.
On November 24 2015 16:08 karazax wrote: Yeah you can ask in almost any chat channel in game and chances are there are lots of people who need the 4 games with someone who doesn't have cho'gall quest for 2k gold. if for some reason that is not working let me know, but I already did the quest so I hate to deny someone who needs it.
I've asked so many ppl and they have all turned me now, if you don't mind helping me I would appreciate.
On November 24 2015 16:08 karazax wrote: Yeah you can ask in almost any chat channel in game and chances are there are lots of people who need the 4 games with someone who doesn't have cho'gall quest for 2k gold. if for some reason that is not working let me know, but I already did the quest so I hate to deny someone who needs it.
I've asked so many ppl and they have all turned me now, if you don't mind helping me I would appreciate.
Try this person first:
On November 24 2015 23:37 FreedomMurder wrote: ^^ Hey Zeratul_jf or anyone else whose interested I can give u chogall!! add me #1844 on bnet
Sounds like he may need the quest.
On another note the Towers of Doom Map gets added today.
On November 24 2015 16:08 karazax wrote: Yeah you can ask in almost any chat channel in game and chances are there are lots of people who need the 4 games with someone who doesn't have cho'gall quest for 2k gold. if for some reason that is not working let me know, but I already did the quest so I hate to deny someone who needs it.
I've asked so many ppl and they have all turned me now, if you don't mind helping me I would appreciate.
You just link your bnet account with a twitch account. And login friday at 18h and voilà! Yes, I'm spamming but I think it's a good info, lots of people don't want to play with strangers to get him.
On November 25 2015 06:31 Ej_ wrote: adrd and Zarmony out of Dignitas, JayPL and scHwimpi in personal issues and different game approache between the players cited as the reason
that's pretty unexpected TBH. Dig didn't look very sharp with the Na'Vi stand-ins during Fragbite Masters :/
I think it's just a bit of awkwardness because they haven't had a lot of time together. scHwimpi more or less fills the same role as Zarmony, but JayPL is a little more aggressively oriented than Dignitas is used to, especially since adrd's main focus was using specialists to control lanes. Some other conflicts like Snitch and JayPL trying to coordinate assassins and Bakery playing Tyrande instead of scHwimpi all need to be worked out, but if they put it all together, they have some really insane skill on that team.
Also, from what I understand, adrd was their primary drafter, so they lost a bit of that knowledge.
Both were top (four) teams worldwide, now both missed quite a few opportunities for fame/money with Fragbites and possibly Dreamhack. Na'Vi still doesn't have a standing roster afaik? I mean sure, personal stuff is very important on a team dependant game, but still could have been handled better i feel.
I hate to be petty, but I think it's interesting that we've only seen Static Charge taken on Tassadar with Archon so far ^^. By and far, we're seeing a lot more of Leeching Plasma/Khala's Embrace than anything else at 4/7.
about this classification of roles proposed by hotlsogs. I have to say that Zagara could fit better in utility. I usually spread the creep all the way and usually achieve a lot more than just pushing like mad.
about this classification of roles proposed by hotlsogs. I have to say that Zagara could fit better in utility. I usually spread the creep all the way and usually achieve a lot more than just pushing like mad.
The meta shift in the European Tournament this weekend had ETC as a top tier tank in almost every game, Falstad as a sometimes first pick, and both Thrall and Kharazim as good choices.
The most "value" out of 10k gold would be 3 out of Raynor, Muradin, ETC, and Valla, and then Jaina. Kharazim is probably more valuable than Thrall if you enjoy playing support, but either is fine. Ideally you have had a chance to play them both when they were free before.
On November 28 2015 22:44 karazax wrote: The meta shift in the European Tournament this weekend had ETC as a top tier tank in almost every game, Falstad as a sometimes first pick, and both Thrall and Kharazim as good choices.
The most "value" out of 10k gold would be 3 out of Raynor, Muradin, ETC, and Valla, and then Jaina. Kharazim is probably more valuable than Thrall if you enjoy playing support, but either is fine. Ideally you have had a chance to play them both when they were free before.
The top tanks are clearly ETC and Muradin, though Tyrael, Leoric, and Johanna are all seeing a lot of play and may be situationally stronger. Monk definitely has more valuable simply due to his flexibility, but Thrall is a goddamned beast in the melee assassin role. I'm thrilled to see him finally getting some play. However, the real star at Dreamhack was Falstad, who has emerged as the top tier ranged AA assassin, and may only be second to Kael among assassins overall.
On November 29 2015 16:02 Hier wrote: One day, Gazlowe... One day you won't be a piece of shit hero, literally the only one that doesn't see competitive play.
Artanis neither. And Azmodan, Tychus, Illidan and Butcher seem to be gone as well, don't they? (And of course Cho'Gall, but whatever :-P)
On November 29 2015 16:02 Hier wrote: One day, Gazlowe... One day you won't be a piece of shit hero, literally the only one that doesn't see competitive play.
Artanis neither. And Azmodan, Tychus, Illidan and Butcher seem to be gone as well, don't they? (And of course Cho'Gall, but whatever :-P)
We didn't see much from the Dreamhack, since those were just EU teams. Yesterday BRFC won Enter the Storm NA tournament, and they have run with Butcher. Illidan is probably still viable but it is definitely harder to make him work than Sonya for example. Azmodan is currently bugged and your Taste for Blood stacks don't benefit from Black Pool which is probably the reason why nobody plays him at all. Artanis needs some tweaks to be viable in my opinion. Few of the teams have played with him and he looked pretty useless in every single game. He has huge power spikes at level 16 and 20, but is horrible before that, no slow/stun/root, no escape mechanic, half the melee range compared to other melees...
We still haven't seen Korean meta yet, I think that Illidan, Butcher and Tychus are going to be picked there to be honest(Tychus is already picked in Chinese meta).
And I am waiting for Gazlowe and Tychus changes that Blizzard has promised to us.
Illidan actually did see one game (and one win) at Dreamhack, but I wasn't totally convinced that it was G2 just playing super well. Maybe? he's still good in some situations, but I think Illidan more or less got gutted this patch compared to real threats like Thrall, Sonya, or pretty much any bruiser.
I'd really, really like to see Zealot Charge come onto Artanis earlier, like lv7, or even lv4, maybe just remove Lethal Alacrity and bake in a 15% speed/range boost into Blade Dash. I might be a little biased because I'd love to see Titan Killer or Psionic Wound in action, but alas, can't skip Zealot Charge.
I would love to see Artanis be more workable, but he really does feel like dog shit pre-Zealot Charge. If I could get Zealot Charge, Titan Killer, and Triple Strike I'd love to stack him up against a tank. Whats that, like 10% of a tank's HP?
Also, is Lt. Morales good now? I heard she was banned once or so at Dreamhack, was that a weird ban or is she actually a strong support now?
On November 29 2015 19:01 Zambrah wrote: I'd really, really like to see Zealot Charge come onto Artanis earlier, like lv7, or even lv4, maybe just remove Lethal Alacrity and bake in a 15% speed/range boost into Blade Dash. I might be a little biased because I'd love to see Titan Killer or Psionic Wound in action, but alas, can't skip Zealot Charge.
I would love to see Artanis be more workable, but he really does feel like dog shit pre-Zealot Charge. If I could get Zealot Charge, Titan Killer, and Triple Strike I'd love to stack him up against a tank. Whats that, like 10% of a tank's HP?
Also, is Lt. Morales good now? I heard she was banned once or so at Dreamhack, was that a weird ban or is she actually a strong support now?
More and more people are playing with Morales. I've seen C9 play her a lot lately, and she was picked few times at DH I think?
Artanis needs to have normal melee range, and probably needs a level 13 talent that allows him to cancel his dash while in the middle of the cast so he actually gets a "blink". If you buff him like this, Zealot Charge probably won't be mandatory and it will make him viable(or at least it would be a good start).
On November 29 2015 19:01 Zambrah wrote: I'd really, really like to see Zealot Charge come onto Artanis earlier, like lv7, or even lv4, maybe just remove Lethal Alacrity and bake in a 15% speed/range boost into Blade Dash. I might be a little biased because I'd love to see Titan Killer or Psionic Wound in action, but alas, can't skip Zealot Charge.
I would love to see Artanis be more workable, but he really does feel like dog shit pre-Zealot Charge. If I could get Zealot Charge, Titan Killer, and Triple Strike I'd love to stack him up against a tank. Whats that, like 10% of a tank's HP?
Also, is Lt. Morales good now? I heard she was banned once or so at Dreamhack, was that a weird ban or is she actually a strong support now?
I like that suggestion. I think either making his dash more mobile or allowing Zealot Charge at an earlier level is all it takes for him to become viable.
As far as the Medic is concerned, she came out of the scaling changes in a pretty good state. Her mana costs scale a lot better from levels 1-10, so she's stronger in the early game, and if the team can get into a decent mid game and play defensively around Medic, she can make the entire team look immortal. Medivac is still woefully underused, but there's still tons of room of play potential using it.
On November 30 2015 01:47 FeyFey wrote: just wait till pros realize pros suck at dodging gravi bomb. And realize they are constantly using ETC and Kael or Jaina atm.
Gravi-bomb is almost impossible to hit against good players before level 20 upgrade, and if you need to be level 20 so you could be able to do something you will have a rough time.
Artanis won't be viable until Blizzard gives him something that makes him sticky before the late game.
Medic was actually a fairly dominant presence in the hands of Bakery at Dreamhack. His positioning was exceptionally good, which him a very hard target to kill. I think part of the problem, however, is that no one is running dive heavy comps right now. Team Liquid countered Medic with Thrall, which worked fairly well, though I tend to think that there are other picks (notably warriors) who could do a better job with hard initiation on the medic.
Illidan is still viable, but he has to be picked in the right situation. In the game where he was picked at Dreamhack, he was basically taken as counterpick in respond to the other team's complete lack of CC. Unsurprisingly, Illidan punished them mercilessly.
most heroes get their good stickyness at level 13/16. so doubt he will get more then is E, which already is really strong for getting kills early game.
Really love the new map, the mechanics are awesome and the strategy when it comes to taking down forts is awesome. Did bring in a few merc waves for 3 damage, because I Nydused down a fort before they arrived XD.
seriously ... seven sided strike all game every game. While Falstad and Kael are super popular, two heroes who have not an easy time stopping their damage. And the moment the zoning doesn't work the squishies die and you lack the damage to follow up the ult.
New map is pretty cool but I think it will take a long time for the masses to understand it. Leaving forts at low percent might be a little bit too strong.
On November 30 2015 01:47 FeyFey wrote: just wait till pros realize pros suck at dodging gravi bomb. And realize they are constantly using ETC and Kael or Jaina atm.
Gravi-bomb is almost impossible to hit against good players before level 20 upgrade, and if you need to be level 20 so you could be able to do something you will have a rough time.
I don't think the problem is that Grav-O-Bomb is too easy to dodge.... How do you think people set up Mosh Pits or Blizzards or Lightning Breaths or anything AoE in the pro scene now? The main problem comes from the fact that Gazlowe is more or less useless in every other respect unless the enemy team charges over the turrets and ignores them, which is unlikely at a pro level.
On November 30 2015 01:47 FeyFey wrote: just wait till pros realize pros suck at dodging gravi bomb. And realize they are constantly using ETC and Kael or Jaina atm.
Gravi-bomb is almost impossible to hit against good players before level 20 upgrade, and if you need to be level 20 so you could be able to do something you will have a rough time.
I don't think the problem is that Grav-O-Bomb is too easy to dodge.... How do you think people set up Mosh Pits or Blizzards or Lightning Breaths or anything AoE in the pro scene now? The main problem comes from the fact that Gazlowe is more or less useless in every other respect unless the enemy team charges over the turrets and ignores them, which is unlikely at a pro level.
I still think Illidan is pretty awful, honestly.
I wouldn't call Illidan awful, just very situational.
And come on John, you can't compare Grav-O-Bomb with stuff like Mosh Pit, Blizzard and other AoEs... most of them are almost instant, hard to dodge, long ranged, or heroes that have them also have gap closer and a stun so they can chain that stuff... Bomb on the other hand has horrible range and a good 2 seconds delay, and it doesn't deal huge amount of damage it is actually a set up for other damage dealing spells, while at the same time you need a set up for the Bomb which defies its purpose. I would say that Bomb is comparable to the Apocalypse from Diablo, and there is a good reason why you almost never see Apocalypse in the pro scene.
On November 30 2015 01:47 FeyFey wrote: just wait till pros realize pros suck at dodging gravi bomb. And realize they are constantly using ETC and Kael or Jaina atm.
Gravi-bomb is almost impossible to hit against good players before level 20 upgrade, and if you need to be level 20 so you could be able to do something you will have a rough time.
I don't think the problem is that Grav-O-Bomb is too easy to dodge.... How do you think people set up Mosh Pits or Blizzards or Lightning Breaths or anything AoE in the pro scene now? The main problem comes from the fact that Gazlowe is more or less useless in every other respect unless the enemy team charges over the turrets and ignores them, which is unlikely at a pro level.
I still think Illidan is pretty awful, honestly.
I wouldn't call Illidan awful, just very situational.
And come on John, you can't compare Grav-O-Bomb with stuff like Mosh Pit, Blizzard and other AoEs... most of them are almost instant, hard to dodge, long ranged, or heroes that have them also have gap closer and a stun so they can chain that stuff... Bomb on the other hand has horrible range and a good 2 seconds delay, and it doesn't deal huge amount of damage it is actually a set up for other damage dealing spells, while at the same time you need a set up for the Bomb which defies its purpose. I would say that Bomb is comparable to the Apocalypse from Diablo, and there is a good reason why you almost never see Apocalypse in the pro scene.
I think there are a lot of things that are easy to dodge, and that a large part of Gazlowe's problem isn't his ult is all ^^. Perhaps a better example is something like Ring of Frost, which has a 1.5 second delay, but is still used in pro games quite often and to good effect (although recently, they seem to whiff a lot). It's not that difficult to set up a Grav Bomb with something like a Maw or a VP, but the biggest issue is just that outside of his ult wombo, Gazlowe provides almost nothing to the team during team fights unless the team already has an established and fortified position which the enemy has to push into, which is rare.
EDIT: Also Furnace Blast, which has a silly 3 second windup.
On November 30 2015 01:47 FeyFey wrote: just wait till pros realize pros suck at dodging gravi bomb. And realize they are constantly using ETC and Kael or Jaina atm.
Gravi-bomb is almost impossible to hit against good players before level 20 upgrade, and if you need to be level 20 so you could be able to do something you will have a rough time.
I don't think the problem is that Grav-O-Bomb is too easy to dodge.... How do you think people set up Mosh Pits or Blizzards or Lightning Breaths or anything AoE in the pro scene now? The main problem comes from the fact that Gazlowe is more or less useless in every other respect unless the enemy team charges over the turrets and ignores them, which is unlikely at a pro level.
I still think Illidan is pretty awful, honestly.
I wouldn't call Illidan awful, just very situational.
And come on John, you can't compare Grav-O-Bomb with stuff like Mosh Pit, Blizzard and other AoEs... most of them are almost instant, hard to dodge, long ranged, or heroes that have them also have gap closer and a stun so they can chain that stuff... Bomb on the other hand has horrible range and a good 2 seconds delay, and it doesn't deal huge amount of damage it is actually a set up for other damage dealing spells, while at the same time you need a set up for the Bomb which defies its purpose. I would say that Bomb is comparable to the Apocalypse from Diablo, and there is a good reason why you almost never see Apocalypse in the pro scene.
I think there are a lot of things that are easy to dodge, and that a large part of Gazlowe's problem isn't his ult is all ^^. Perhaps a better example is something like Ring of Frost, which has a 1.5 second delay, but is still used in pro games quite often and to good effect (although recently, they seem to whiff a lot). It's not that difficult to set up a Grav Bomb with something like a Maw or a VP, but the biggest issue is just that outside of his ult wombo, Gazlowe provides almost nothing to the team during team fights unless the team already has an established and fortified position which the enemy has to push into, which is rare.
EDIT: Also Furnace Blast, which has a silly 3 second windup.
I agree with you, and that is one of the reasons why his Grav-O-Bomb is easy to dodge, because he doesn't have anything for a set up like other heroes do. It is easier to hit Ring of Frost when you have already used Blizzard and they are slowed, and Furnace Blast isn't that hard with the charge even with 3 seconds channel time.
Well hopefully we will see Gazlowe redesign in near future, I just don't like the hero at all and wanted to shoot myself while playing him to level 5... I've barely made it and I went like 1-7 in games with him or something like that.
On November 30 2015 06:28 Ramiz1989 wrote: I just don't like the hero at all and wanted to shoot myself while playing him to level 5... I've barely made it and I went like 1-7 in games with him or something like that.
And there we see the truth behind your reasoning :p. Yeah, I don't like him either...will be interested to see how they rework him in the future (they hinted at doing so at BlizzCon). Wouldn't mind a talent rework on Illidan either, but that's me just wanting some love for my bae.
On November 30 2015 06:28 Ramiz1989 wrote: I just don't like the hero at all and wanted to shoot myself while playing him to level 5... I've barely made it and I went like 1-7 in games with him or something like that.
And there we see the truth behind your reasoning :p. Yeah, I don't like him either...will be interested to see how they rework him in the future (they hinted at doing so at BlizzCon). Wouldn't mind a talent rework on Illidan either, but that's me just wanting some love for my bae.
I am with you when it comes to Illidan... I am bruiser kind of guy(Butcher is my fave hero, but played a lot of Illidan, Leoric, Sonya, Arthas, Anub, Kerrigan...) but even if I wasn't some heroes really need talents redesign so they don't have just one build where you are changing like 1-2 talents and it doesn't feel like a real change at all, your playstyle is still the same and your capabilities are the same. Beside Illidan, Arthas and Tyrael come to mind.
They have talked about Gazlowe and Tychus redesign at Blizzcon, but I am hoping for real redesign, not just removing some useless talents and giving them some better.
Wow, after days of shitty games I finally had a great day of playing with lots of fun, balanced games, and was wrecking hard with Tyrande, topping damage a bunch of times.
I also discovered how broken the new map can be... leave all 3 of their keeps on super low health, then destroy them all just before objective comes up, get camp + altar and you do like half the core health in one go.
Illidan is one of these few heroes that always gets nerfed more and more. I love him but TBH I don't feel confident enough to play him again in HL on my main account (and I'm far from being a bad Illidan).
About the new map, what I like is the comebacks. We wrecked the other team all game long (30 kills to 10 at one point), 3 levels lead but they kept stealing objectives and my friends were new to it. Until we lost the game, because the objectives don't help you push or get exp, neither do the boss so you can win all these and still be on the losing side. Well, except that in the end they won because of 1 camp. ^^ Looks like they knew the map and we didn't. But still it was a good game.
The turrets are alright and actually a pretty strong feature on maps where zone control or damaging an objective is good. Their targeting stinks though, often they end up targeting minions or summoned units when enemy heroes are nearby.
The laser is awful though. If you fire it directly it does less damage than a multishot in a worse arc but waiting is rarely going to work against decent opponents. Even waiting full time the payoff is marginal, you're doing ~30% less damage than a charged flamestrike! This needs to charge much faster and/or do much better damage, even if you build into it still has a hefty 12 sec cooldown.
The xplodium charge is another pretty awful ability, it does decent damage but quite unspectacular for something that is so very hard to hit. This puts it in a weird spot, as most of the power of this spell comes from the hefty 2 second stun. Because for clearing waves it's really just an awful version of Pufferfish which does about 90% more damage! You just can't hit this reliably on heroes though which puts this ability in a weird spot. It's quite the lousy PvE ability but getting it to work in PvP is very hard.
The result of this kit is that Gazlowe is actually mediocre PvE and terrible PvP and just a terrible hero overall. Other heroes with weak teamfight potential compensate by great PvE or soaking abilities like abathur and murky. But gazlowe is not even that great a pusher, if he's undefended in lane to push he doesn't really push that hard even, a sonya, sylvanas or murky does more.. And those heroes are better in teamfights. Mercing with gazlowe is also pretty bad, you'd figure his kit is awesome for it but heroes like illidan, butcher and sonya do it faster while using less resources.
The kit does have potential and is unique so I don't think an entire rework is neccesary, just buffing his abilities to be worth it more. The turrets are fine I think they can just use some targeting AI improvements. The lazer needs to charge faster or do more damage. And the bomb needs to be able to hit players a bit easier, I would love for example if all they did to buff gazlowe was simply changing the bomb to be manually detonated. You'd cast it, then after 1 second it's armed and you can detonate it with E again (possible while charging lazer) for the next 3 seconds after which if you haven't yet it automatically detonates.
Tychus itself is not too awful, just a slight numbers buff and he'd see play again. He's actually pretty close to viable I think there are just too many other assassins out there that do better overall that tychus isn't picked. I also read someone suggest changing his Q to just let him autoattack with a buff and AoE while walking. So functionally it would be the same but his talents and effects from other heroes that boost his autoattack would make sense. It's a bit silly now that Tychus, especially with Odin, seems to be quite the autoattack hero but because he spends most time in fights using Q you don't benefit from autoattack stuff much.
Amazon and Bestbuy have the starter pack on sale for $9.99
Codes included - Golden Tiger Mount, Sonya (Warrior), Zeratul (Assassin), Zagara (Specialist), Li Li (Support) and Jaina (Assassin) heroes, a Ronin Zeratul Skin.
Note: Not sure if Blizzard has fixed the Ronin Zeratul Skin redemption allowing for double Zeratul redemption. Previously, if you used the Ronin code, it unlocked Zeratul as well.
Also Liquid Cris put up his latest hero tier list and build orders here
On December 01 2015 05:51 wongfeihung wrote: Gazlowe redesign? But... I like the current Gazlowe. I do think he can be improved, but as far as a redesign goes, I'm hesitant, to say the least.
I love Gazlowe also, he is my best and favourite hero currently. But his lazer is easily the worst ability in the entire game.
On December 01 2015 05:51 wongfeihung wrote: Gazlowe redesign? But... I like the current Gazlowe. I do think he can be improved, but as far as a redesign goes, I'm hesitant, to say the least.
I love Gazlowe also, he is my best and favourite hero currently. But his lazer is easily the worst ability in the entire game.
The Deth Lazor is super awesome, Gazlow is awesome don't change anything. You just need to be able to predict the future to play him right and then the enemy team retreats into your turrets and all die.
Can confirm you can make ridiculous comebacks in towers of doom. Was playing on my alt with my sister and we won a game 40hp vs 1hp from behind.. Still don't know how the hell that happened.
I think an easy buff to make for Gaz would be to give him a ranged normal attack. To this day, I can still remember being surprised the first time I played him and discovering he had a melee normal.
On December 01 2015 07:20 Cephiro wrote: Can confirm you can make ridiculous comebacks in towers of doom. Was playing on my alt with my sister and we won a game 40hp vs 1hp from behind.. Still don't know how the hell that happened.
I can tell you already that your team or composition (or both) was just much better at team fights in the late game, and that's why. That's another issue with Towers of Doom, imo. Your opponents can have a juggernaut composition that is impossible to kill at a certain level (especially if your particular team has no way of dealing with it), and there's nothing you can do about it after that time period except continually lose forced team fights at Altars with little to no real alternatives for scoring points.
As an example, take a "Protect the Tank" composition...let's say you run into this in QM. Your opponents have Hammer, Medic, Muradin, Rexxar, and Valla while your team has Leoric, Kharazim, Raynor, Sylvanas, and Arthas. You might win the first few Altars because Arthas and Leoric can get into the fray and quickly eliminate the tank or some of the backline damage, but once you get to level 20 and Hammer has First Aid and/or Stoneskin, Valla has Bolt, Rexxar has Feign Death, and Medic has Caduceus Reactor 2.0 shields, how do you actually kill that stuff? It's near impossible for you to win a straight up fight because you have no strong dive potential and have to rely on the other team making a huge positioning error.
On a normal map, you can try things like backdooring or giving up objectives for a boss push, etc., but on Towers of Doom, at some point you run out of options if your team cannot take big fights, and that's problematic. It's an interesting map, but the fact that you cannot base race in any way limits a lot of options in the game at the moment.
On December 01 2015 07:18 Ej_ wrote: Gazlowe would be cool if they banned both him and Illidan from HL
I kinda like Illidan in Hero League. Normally you get just all the camps throughout the game because uncoordinated teams seem to have a somewhat hard time to counter him (which is just a huge advantage on some maps). He's not the easiest hero to play and he needs a somewhat decent healer to do anything in a teamfight, but I wouldn't agree on a general ban in hero league.
Compared to Cho'Gall, Lost Vikings, Azmodan and Gazlowe. Not that TLV are bad, they just suck really hard in a Solo/dual Q game, imo. They might be insanely strong in Team League, not gonna argue about that, but the team just has to adapt too hard to the Lost Vikings presence on the map. Same with Cho'Gall and Azmodan. They just need too specific of a team comp to be viable and you can't really expect that to happen if you're not playing team league.
And Gazlowe... well... let's face it, he's easily the worst hero in the game.
On December 01 2015 07:20 Cephiro wrote: Can confirm you can make ridiculous comebacks in towers of doom. Was playing on my alt with my sister and we won a game 40hp vs 1hp from behind.. Still don't know how the hell that happened.
I can tell you already that your team or composition (or both) was just much better at team fights in the late game, and that's why. That's another issue with Towers of Doom, imo. Your opponents can have a juggernaut composition that is impossible to kill at a certain level (especially if your particular team has no way of dealing with it), and there's nothing you can do about it after that time period except continually lose forced team fights at Altars with little to no real alternatives for scoring points.
As an example, take a "Protect the Tank" composition...let's say you run into this in QM. Your opponents have Hammer, Medic, Muradin, Rexxar, and Valla while your team has Leoric, Kharazim, Raynor, Sylvanas, and Arthas. You might win the first few Altars because Arthas and Leoric can get into the fray and quickly eliminate the tank or some of the backline damage, but once you get to level 20 and Hammer has First Aid and/or Stoneskin, Valla has Bolt, Rexxar has Feign Death, and Medic has Caduceus Reactor 2.0 shields, how do you actually kill that stuff? It's near impossible for you to win a straight up fight because you have no strong dive potential and have to rely on the other team making a huge positioning error.
On a normal map, you can try things like backdooring or giving up objectives for a boss push, etc., but on Towers of Doom, at some point you run out of options if your team cannot take big fights, and that's problematic. It's an interesting map, but the fact that you cannot base race in any way limits a lot of options in the game at the moment.
Honestly don't see how Abathur, Zeratul, Nova, Murky, Jaina is a better teamfight comp lategame than Kerrigan, Leoric, Murky, Falstad, Hammer. Sure, we had damage, but that's the only thing we had. (Well, aside from pushing potential with aba/murky). But for teamfights? There were even triple spawns which should've guaranteed a win for the opposing team (not to mention boss being up multiple times), if they had played it correctly. However as I pointed out, playing with my alt the level wasn't that high and it's understandable that the opposing team didn't know how to capitalize on their advantage. In any proper game that would've been a complete loss easily. (Falstad can fly to an altar further away, they can simply get into a position in time with a 5-man group and protect hammer, our lineup couldn't have done anything about that.)
I think there's a fair bit of counterplay available in towers of doom as long as you know how to utilize it. If there's a single shrine that you're guaranteed to lose with a 5v5 fight, just take down a fort and/or mercs meanwhile. Or think ahead and force situations where the enemy team has to react to something so that you're able to cut down on their teamfight advantage before the objective comes up, by possibly winning a smaller fight elsewhere.
I saw a progame where Gazlowe was used with great success to counter an all-melee composition, so I believe even in his current state, he has a place. The turrets completely locked them out on sky temple.
Going with an all melee composition sounds like a mistake in most situations. It's certainly not impossible to win with Gazlowe if the other team makes enough mistakes. It's just hard to find situations where your team couldn't have won even easier with another hero instead of Gazlowe.
On December 01 2015 07:20 Cephiro wrote: Can confirm you can make ridiculous comebacks in towers of doom. Was playing on my alt with my sister and we won a game 40hp vs 1hp from behind.. Still don't know how the hell that happened.
I can tell you already that your team or composition (or both) was just much better at team fights in the late game, and that's why. That's another issue with Towers of Doom, imo. Your opponents can have a juggernaut composition that is impossible to kill at a certain level (especially if your particular team has no way of dealing with it), and there's nothing you can do about it after that time period except continually lose forced team fights at Altars with little to no real alternatives for scoring points.
As an example, take a "Protect the Tank" composition...let's say you run into this in QM. Your opponents have Hammer, Medic, Muradin, Rexxar, and Valla while your team has Leoric, Kharazim, Raynor, Sylvanas, and Arthas. You might win the first few Altars because Arthas and Leoric can get into the fray and quickly eliminate the tank or some of the backline damage, but once you get to level 20 and Hammer has First Aid and/or Stoneskin, Valla has Bolt, Rexxar has Feign Death, and Medic has Caduceus Reactor 2.0 shields, how do you actually kill that stuff? It's near impossible for you to win a straight up fight because you have no strong dive potential and have to rely on the other team making a huge positioning error.
On a normal map, you can try things like backdooring or giving up objectives for a boss push, etc., but on Towers of Doom, at some point you run out of options if your team cannot take big fights, and that's problematic. It's an interesting map, but the fact that you cannot base race in any way limits a lot of options in the game at the moment.
I would say feed the Raynor stacks and deny core damage, by taking out forts. And you can zone the enemy out really easily, so it will be hard for them to get both shrines. Sure Enemy team will be tough to beat in a team fight. But the Leoric team has almost no Mana issues. Other side has Valla and Muradin. The moment they run out you won the team fight. But if the Sylvanas goes for envenom, unstable poison crap build you might really lack the damage. On a normal map, Hammer could just siege up and shell down the core at 5 range stacks and force an engagement as well though.
I like the map because you can still win the moment you lose one person for free in the lategame. But maybe I seen to many base core rushes lately.
played against a murky in HL tonight who planted his egg between our fort and keep. This resulted in a wave being delayed while the other team's azmodan tried to push down our fort.
It didn't work very well, but I give the guy props for being kind of innovative. Of course, he also tried to plant an egg in our base and backdoor a keep, apparently unaware that we can see the egg no matter where it is in our base.
Im having trouble deciding which warrior to buy. The last 2 i dont have are stiches and chen. I prefer warriors with more than 1 build. Since i didnt really play Stiches or Chen i really dont know much about them and any comments/recommendations would be helpful.
On December 02 2015 03:29 FeyFey wrote: I would say feed the Raynor stacks and deny core damage, by taking out forts. And you can zone the enemy out really easily, so it will be hard for them to get both shrines. Sure Enemy team will be tough to beat in a team fight. But the Leoric team has almost no Mana issues. Other side has Valla and Muradin. The moment they run out you won the team fight. But if the Sylvanas goes for envenom, unstable poison crap build you might really lack the damage. On a normal map, Hammer could just siege up and shell down the core at 5 range stacks and force an engagement as well though.
I like the map because you can still win the moment you lose one person for free in the lategame. But maybe I seen to many base core rushes lately.
I understand the unstable poison talent as very situational, but what pick at lvl 4 does more damage than Envenom?
Paralysis is maybe good for pushing builds, Overflowing quiver is useless and rangers ambush is very risky, using the escape for a bit more damage IMO
On December 02 2015 23:15 Mnemic wrote: Im having trouble deciding which warrior to buy. The last 2 i dont have are stiches and chen. I prefer warriors with more than 1 build. Since i didnt really play Stiches or Chen i really dont know much about them and any comments/recommendations would be helpful.
Stitches is good if you can hit his hooks. Otherwise, he's just a big fat wall of HP people will ignore. Most people only play one build on him, but I think he's got some potential for Slam talents now that Hungry for More is an option. I don't really play Chen all that much, but he's probably easier to play and more powerful at the moment.
Stitches is a very fun warrior to play because of the hook. On battlefield of eternity he's a monster. But if can't land a hook then you're useless, any other tank is better at their job. Chen on the other hand doesn't seem very fun to play, and not very useful IMO.
On December 03 2015 00:31 Leolio wrote: Stitches is a very fun warrior to play because of the hook. On battlefield of eternity he's a monster. But if can't land a hook then you're useless, any other tank is better at their job. Chen on the other hand doesn't seem very fun to play, and not very useful IMO.
On December 02 2015 23:50 SC2John wrote: Stitches is good if you can hit his hooks. Otherwise, he's just a big fat wall of HP people will ignore. Most people only play one build on him, but I think he's got some potential for Slam talents now that Hungry for More is an option. I don't really play Chen all that much, but he's probably easier to play and more powerful at the moment.
As you can see, opinios on these two differ quite a bit ^^ Me, personally love stitches cause you can really make some plays with Hook and Gorge.
Chen can be quite good on some dive heavy comps, you can dive after illidan/ kerrigan and the likes, soak damage for them and shield them while doing quite a bit of dmg
Oh, I agree with the not very fun or useful part, but I stand by the fact that he's easier to play and more powerful on average (assuming you're a new Stitches who can't really land hooks consistently). There's a reason I don't play him very often ^^.
Apparently people think the mercs on ToD do crazy damage on forts and are worth invading for. Personally I think they are almost never worth your time unless of course for core dmg or to prevent core dmg. Own camp is debatable, invading is out of the question.
On December 03 2015 04:50 Garbels wrote: Apparently people think the mercs on ToD do crazy damage on forts and are worth invading for. Personally I think they are almost never worth your time unless of course for core dmg or to prevent core dmg. Own camp is debatable, invading is out of the question.
I think the first couple can be worth it to safely strip away the outside towers/gates while you go focus on another lane. Once the towers/gates are down on a lane the merc camps should primarily be used for core damage.
Five Heroes: Sonya – Warrior, Zeratul – Assassin, Zagara – Specialist, Li Li – Support, and Jaina – Assassin
Ronin Zeratul Skin
Retail Exclusive Golden Tiger Mount
Unless they fixed it recently, if you register the Ronin Zeratul skin first, it unlocks Zeratul and you can give that code away. For $2 a hero and a mount and skin it's definitely a great deal if you don't have those heroes. If you have some of them and a friend doesn't or you have a second account, each item has it's own unlock code.
On December 04 2015 23:23 karazax wrote: The Heroes of the Storm Starter pack is on sale again from Amazon for $10. This bundle includes:
Five Heroes: Sonya – Warrior, Zeratul – Assassin, Zagara – Specialist, Li Li – Support, and Jaina – Assassin
Ronin Zeratul Skin
Retail Exclusive Golden Tiger Mount
Unless they fixed it recently, if you register the Ronin Zeratul skin first, it unlocks Zeratul and you can give that code away. For $2 a hero and a mount and skin it's definitely a great deal if you don't have those heroes. If you have some of them and a friend doesn't or you have a second account, each item has it's own unlock code.
At one point a blue post somewhere said blizzard was not going to fix that bug.
On December 06 2015 03:03 Swisslink wrote: Uhm... have they already given up on their 3-week-rhythm for new heroes, or are they going to release a hero next week? :o
DB refuses to give dates, but says that Lunara is coming fairly soon.
On December 06 2015 03:03 Swisslink wrote: Uhm... have they already given up on their 3-week-rhythm for new heroes, or are they going to release a hero next week? :o
DB refuses to give dates, but says that Lunara is coming fairly soon.
On December 06 2015 03:03 Swisslink wrote: Uhm... have they already given up on their 3-week-rhythm for new heroes, or are they going to release a hero next week? :o
chogall was two heroes, so I guess they still have a few weeks.
You excel with The Lost Vikings. Your win rate is 14% better than the average The Lost Vikings player. You have 68.6% over 51 games, with players averaging 54.5% overall.
You are above average with The Butcher. Your win rate is 7% better than the average The Butcher player. You have 56.5% over 207 games, with players averaging 49.6% overall.
You excel with Illidan. Your win rate is 10% better than the average Illidan player. You have 51.2% over 43 games, with players averaging 41.7% overall.
Heh, funny. Didn't expect to "excel" with Illidan as I am more "okaish" with him than anything.
You should probably avoid Gazlowe. Your win rate is -35% worse than the average Gazlowe player. You have 14.3% over 7 games, with players averaging 49.2% overall.
Whats cool is i've been using a build a bit different than normal with Naz recently. Going for Quantity of Zombie walls, over Quality ones. By taking the cool down reduction of the level 7 talent.
Makes me wonder, from when its counting. Cause i supposedly have a lot more games played with some of the heroes on there.
Prior to seeing this i probably would have said my best heroes were Anub'arak and Sonya who were at 3 percent and 9 percent better respectively. Worst yeah probably Johanna, or Tyreal.
Tyreal i really didn't understand his benefits for a long time. And Johanna, ..feel like played QM with lots of terrible teams / compositions. That said, obviously given how far below average I've been, safe to say, my play with her hasn't been good either.
Probably unnecessary but also made a little excel table. Wanted to see the My win percentage over average win percentage. So that all are on an even playing field.
Also on this it says im good with Chen. I had a couple week run in September where it was like i probably won 95 percent my QM games with him. But since then, i haven't been able to get him to work. I think he was just really good vs the free heroes those two weeks.
Also think its funny that Azmodan is one of the Higher ones. Think that comes from people not knowing that you can spawn his trait globally to push lanes. You don't have to be a one dimensional split pusher with him. You can split push while (Attempting to) help with the objective and team fighting.
Im curious, Gaz used to be one of my favorites, but i've struggled with him since the scaling change. What have you experienced in the past couple weeks?
You excel with Nova. Your win rate is 29% better than the average Nova player. You have 80.6% over 36 games, with players averaging 51.3% overal
I'm THAT guy. Woooooo!
Thought I was a pro Tyrande
You produce average results with Tyrande. Your win rate is -4% worse than the average Tyrande player. You have 53.7% over 41 games, with players averaging 57.3% overall.
You should probably avoid Chen. Your win rate is -50% worse than the average Chen player. You have 0.0% over 5 games, with players averaging 50.3% overall.
so my Thrall is now sitting on 77.3% winrate in 22 games in QM, but I'm still terrified of pulling him out for HL and messing up big time, any tips on when Thrall is a safe pick?
Im curious, Gaz used to be one of my favorites, but i've struggled with him since the scaling change. What have you experienced in the past couple weeks?
Oh yeah, the scaling is noticeable. The biggest problem is the turret health now doesn't surpass a certain threshold as it used to, so early to mid-game turrets became more squishy. You now have to be more creative with your turret placements, which might lead to sacrificed coverage. Otherwise you have to dive for spare parts and hope you don't die in the crossfire.
On December 08 2015 07:11 Valiver wrote: https://twitter.com/BlizzHeroes/status/673986578457366533 The Free Rotation has also not been posted (usually posted like 7 hours ago by now), so there's a chance the 10 hero rotation starts tomorrow.
Yes, the only other things I can think of that it might be are:
New matchmaking. Browder said it's coming before the end of the year and we are in December...
New Christmas skins. Several new skins were datamined:
So I finally am rolling again in Hero League on a nice 20-3 streak, with almost all of my wins coming on the back of Thrall. The best part about picking him is that he is incredibly team comp independent. Not only does it really not matter much what your team picks, but it also doesn't matter what the enemy team picks.You can build him to kill anyone you need to. #GreenJesus.
It's funny. It says I excel with Brightwing and am above average with Nova. In fact it's definitely the reverse. ^^ I guess when you have 300+ games with an hero you either have a roughly 55 % win rate (I have 57,6% with her) or are a monster with 4000k MMR ?
@ xDaunt > would you care to make a little tutorial ? Because to me he's "that green guy I already didn't like in Warcraft 3 and now I can't play him at all in HotS".
So Thrall isn't bad anymore against CC ? Or are HL picks atm really light on the CC ? Or am I mixing things up. Not really playing Thrall so would be good to know what counters him when he gets popular.
On December 08 2015 21:39 FeyFey wrote: So Thrall isn't bad anymore against CC ? Or are HL picks atm really light on the CC ? Or am I mixing things up. Not really playing Thrall so would be good to know what counters him when he gets popular.
Basically anything that counters melee assassins -- CC, mobility, blinds. The only thing that's making him an all-star right now compared to a lot of the other melee assasssins is that he hits the hardest in the early game and has poke/sustain to stay alive in lane and late game.
1) Rolling Thunder 4) Ride the Lightning 7) Follow Through 10) Sundering 13) [Flex]. Pick Spell Shield if the other team has a mage. Giant Killer if tanks. Restless Wolves can be decent if your team needs a little boost to CC because people are running away. Grace of Air is okay if you need a little more sustain. I take Spell Shield most of the time. 16) Forked Lightning. I will take Giant Killer and Tempest Fury against beefy teams. 20) Nexus Blades or Blink
The core concept is to build around Chain Lightning and Follow Through, which maximizes Thrall's short term burst damage and poke damage. It also makes Thrall's sustain arguably better than a Windfury build. It is unequivocally better in lane, where Thrall can lane against anyone with the Level 1 and 4 CL talents. Best of all, this build is very safe compared to Windfury-centric builds and has a far better power curve (you're beast at level 7 with this build. Windfury builds don't kick in until 16). If anyone over-extends or gets out of position, you can put a huge hurt on them. Use Sundering to engage on the enemy team's flank and push them into your team. If you do it right, you'll often cause the enemy team to be wiped.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
On December 09 2015 00:22 Ej_ wrote: it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Thats the way i played him too in the free rotations and i always felt i die too much. Sure in a 1v1 there are not many who can beat you past lvl 16, but in a TF you'll get one-two-stun-dieded
1) Stats on the internet told me I'm really good with Johanna. 2) I play two games of hero league, drafting Johanna and winning. 3) I now think I'm a Johanna GOD.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Actually, the CL build doesn't do significantly less damage late game. I'd have to check the math, but Windfury builds likely do a little more sustained damage over time. And when I say over time, I'm saying over 8-10 seconds when the second use of Windfury becomes available. However, what really matters for Thrall is the first 3-5 seconds of burst damage. If you properly weave your skills with your abilities, you clearly are going to get a ton more damage out of Thrall with Follow Through than you will with Wind Shear (even presuming you take Tempest Fury at 16 on both builds or if you opt for Chain Lightning at 16). It's not even close. Frankly, I don't think that the pros have really thought Thrall through yet, and are thus not playing him ideally.
And it's not even debatable that CL builds do more damage than Windfury builds before level 16 and provide more utility, more poke, and more sustain.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Actually, the CL build doesn't do significantly less damage late game. I'd have to check the math, but Windfury builds likely do a little more sustained damage over time. And when I say over time, I'm saying over 8-10 seconds when the second use of Windfury becomes available. However, what really matters for Thrall is the first 3-5 seconds of burst damage. If you properly weave your skills with your abilities, you clearly are going to get a ton more damage out of Thrall with Follow Through than you will with Wind Shear (even presuming you take Tempest Fury at 16 on both builds or if you opt for Chain Lightning at 16). It's not even close. Frankly, I don't think that the pros have really thought Thrall through yet, and are thus not playing him ideally.
And it's not even debatable that CL builds do more damage than Windfury builds before level 16 and provide more utility, more poke, and more sustain.
On December 09 2015 00:19 Harris1st wrote: Thats is completely different from how i would have build him... No wonder he always felt like a glassdagger ^^
Your build has way more sustain just through the "not standing in the middle" factor
it also does significantly less damage in the lategame and why you don't see it that much at the pro level
my favorite is the windfury with seasoned marksman, but I take the Chain Lightning talents when the team needs some lane presence. I think it's actually pretty cool that Thrall got 2 completely different builds and both are viable.
Actually, the CL build doesn't do significantly less damage late game. I'd have to check the math, but Windfury builds likely do a little more sustained damage over time. And when I say over time, I'm saying over 8-10 seconds when the second use of Windfury becomes available. However, what really matters for Thrall is the first 3-5 seconds of burst damage. If you properly weave your skills with your abilities, you clearly are going to get a ton more damage out of Thrall with Follow Through than you will with Wind Shear (even presuming you take Tempest Fury at 16 on both builds or if you opt for Chain Lightning at 16). It's not even close. Frankly, I don't think that the pros have really thought Thrall through yet, and are thus not playing him ideally.
And it's not even debatable that CL builds do more damage than Windfury builds before level 16 and provide more utility, more poke, and more sustain.
I did do the math the other night after you mentioned this on nexus nights-- if we are just looking at followthrough vs wind shear at 7, followthrough clearly does more damage:
40% bonus damage after every ability. One ability has a CD of 6 seconds, others have CD of 12: so in the abstract every 12 seconds you should get 40% bonus damage on 4 attacks. For the sake of simple comparison, I'll call this 8 * 40% bonus damage over 24 seconds.
Windshear's abilitiy is essentially 1.5 bonus autoattacks. With 4 seconds of cooldown reduction, you get 3 uses of it instead of just 2 in a 24 second timespan. So you get a bonus 1.5 autoattacks. (or 150% bonus damage on one auto attack in a 24 second timespan.)
So 8 * 40 = 320% bonus damage vs just 150% bonus damage. Seems like follow through is a clear winner from a dps-over-extremely-unrealistic-periods-of-time-perspective. There are only two other considerations:
* Windshear allows for more movement-bonus-speed-time-up * Follow-through starts giving bonus damage from the very start. Windsheer doesn't give any additional damage until 8 seconds into the fight. (or an engage, then disengage, then reengage.)
Personally I can't see the value of the windsheer build--- it does less initial damage until level 16. (though at 16 your burst in the first 2-3 seconds is better with tempest fury---- but couldn't you just take that with the followthrough build if you really wanted it? windsheer still isn't getting much done.)
Oh shittttt. VP released all players except for CEBKAJE. This month has been huge for team reformation, let's hope they can come back as big as Liquid and Fnatic.
Thrall can be such a pain in the ass till lvl 10 in HL... wow
80% of the games against Thrall my team is behind at the early stages. Specially on maps with early TFs like Cursed. Even when i play Johanna or Mura, i just get melted
99% of the games with Thrall are stomps cause of early leads. I always try to get a gank squad together/ convincing my team.
Did not expect him to have that kind of impact with the scaling changes
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