EPTLeaving forts at low percent might be a little bit too strong.
General Discussion November 17th Patch - Page 7
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
Leaving forts at low percent might be a little bit too strong. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 30 2015 02:27 Ramiz1989 wrote: Gravi-bomb is almost impossible to hit against good players before level 20 upgrade, and if you need to be level 20 so you could be able to do something you will have a rough time. I don't think the problem is that Grav-O-Bomb is too easy to dodge.... How do you think people set up Mosh Pits or Blizzards or Lightning Breaths or anything AoE in the pro scene now? The main problem comes from the fact that Gazlowe is more or less useless in every other respect unless the enemy team charges over the turrets and ignores them, which is unlikely at a pro level. I still think Illidan is pretty awful, honestly. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 30 2015 05:15 SC2John wrote: I don't think the problem is that Grav-O-Bomb is too easy to dodge.... How do you think people set up Mosh Pits or Blizzards or Lightning Breaths or anything AoE in the pro scene now? The main problem comes from the fact that Gazlowe is more or less useless in every other respect unless the enemy team charges over the turrets and ignores them, which is unlikely at a pro level. I still think Illidan is pretty awful, honestly. I wouldn't call Illidan awful, just very situational. And come on John, you can't compare Grav-O-Bomb with stuff like Mosh Pit, Blizzard and other AoEs... most of them are almost instant, hard to dodge, long ranged, or heroes that have them also have gap closer and a stun so they can chain that stuff... Bomb on the other hand has horrible range and a good 2 seconds delay, and it doesn't deal huge amount of damage it is actually a set up for other damage dealing spells, while at the same time you need a set up for the Bomb which defies its purpose. I would say that Bomb is comparable to the Apocalypse from Diablo, and there is a good reason why you almost never see Apocalypse in the pro scene. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 30 2015 06:04 Ramiz1989 wrote: I wouldn't call Illidan awful, just very situational. And come on John, you can't compare Grav-O-Bomb with stuff like Mosh Pit, Blizzard and other AoEs... most of them are almost instant, hard to dodge, long ranged, or heroes that have them also have gap closer and a stun so they can chain that stuff... Bomb on the other hand has horrible range and a good 2 seconds delay, and it doesn't deal huge amount of damage it is actually a set up for other damage dealing spells, while at the same time you need a set up for the Bomb which defies its purpose. I would say that Bomb is comparable to the Apocalypse from Diablo, and there is a good reason why you almost never see Apocalypse in the pro scene. I think there are a lot of things that are easy to dodge, and that a large part of Gazlowe's problem isn't his ult is all ^^. Perhaps a better example is something like Ring of Frost, which has a 1.5 second delay, but is still used in pro games quite often and to good effect (although recently, they seem to whiff a lot). It's not that difficult to set up a Grav Bomb with something like a Maw or a VP, but the biggest issue is just that outside of his ult wombo, Gazlowe provides almost nothing to the team during team fights unless the team already has an established and fortified position which the enemy has to push into, which is rare. EDIT: Also Furnace Blast, which has a silly 3 second windup. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 30 2015 06:20 SC2John wrote: I think there are a lot of things that are easy to dodge, and that a large part of Gazlowe's problem isn't his ult is all ^^. Perhaps a better example is something like Ring of Frost, which has a 1.5 second delay, but is still used in pro games quite often and to good effect (although recently, they seem to whiff a lot). It's not that difficult to set up a Grav Bomb with something like a Maw or a VP, but the biggest issue is just that outside of his ult wombo, Gazlowe provides almost nothing to the team during team fights unless the team already has an established and fortified position which the enemy has to push into, which is rare. EDIT: Also Furnace Blast, which has a silly 3 second windup. I agree with you, and that is one of the reasons why his Grav-O-Bomb is easy to dodge, because he doesn't have anything for a set up like other heroes do. It is easier to hit Ring of Frost when you have already used Blizzard and they are slowed, and Furnace Blast isn't that hard with the charge even with 3 seconds channel time. Well hopefully we will see Gazlowe redesign in near future, I just don't like the hero at all and wanted to shoot myself while playing him to level 5... I've barely made it and I went like 1-7 in games with him or something like that. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 30 2015 06:28 Ramiz1989 wrote: I just don't like the hero at all and wanted to shoot myself while playing him to level 5... I've barely made it and I went like 1-7 in games with him or something like that. And there we see the truth behind your reasoning :p. Yeah, I don't like him either...will be interested to see how they rework him in the future (they hinted at doing so at BlizzCon). Wouldn't mind a talent rework on Illidan either, but that's me just wanting some love for my bae. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 30 2015 06:46 SC2John wrote: And there we see the truth behind your reasoning :p. Yeah, I don't like him either...will be interested to see how they rework him in the future (they hinted at doing so at BlizzCon). Wouldn't mind a talent rework on Illidan either, but that's me just wanting some love for my bae. I am with you when it comes to Illidan... I am bruiser kind of guy(Butcher is my fave hero, but played a lot of Illidan, Leoric, Sonya, Arthas, Anub, Kerrigan...) but even if I wasn't some heroes really need talents redesign so they don't have just one build where you are changing like 1-2 talents and it doesn't feel like a real change at all, your playstyle is still the same and your capabilities are the same. Beside Illidan, Arthas and Tyrael come to mind. They have talked about Gazlowe and Tychus redesign at Blizzcon, but I am hoping for real redesign, not just removing some useless talents and giving them some better. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
I also discovered how broken the new map can be... leave all 3 of their keeps on super low health, then destroy them all just before objective comes up, get camp + altar and you do like half the core health in one go. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Leolio
France633 Posts
About the new map, what I like is the comebacks. We wrecked the other team all game long (30 kills to 10 at one point), 3 levels lead but they kept stealing objectives and my friends were new to it. Until we lost the game, because the objectives don't help you push or get exp, neither do the boss so you can win all these and still be on the losing side. Well, except that in the end they won because of 1 camp. ^^ Looks like they knew the map and we didn't. But still it was a good game. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
The turrets are alright and actually a pretty strong feature on maps where zone control or damaging an objective is good. Their targeting stinks though, often they end up targeting minions or summoned units when enemy heroes are nearby. The laser is awful though. If you fire it directly it does less damage than a multishot in a worse arc but waiting is rarely going to work against decent opponents. Even waiting full time the payoff is marginal, you're doing ~30% less damage than a charged flamestrike! This needs to charge much faster and/or do much better damage, even if you build into it still has a hefty 12 sec cooldown. The xplodium charge is another pretty awful ability, it does decent damage but quite unspectacular for something that is so very hard to hit. This puts it in a weird spot, as most of the power of this spell comes from the hefty 2 second stun. Because for clearing waves it's really just an awful version of Pufferfish which does about 90% more damage! You just can't hit this reliably on heroes though which puts this ability in a weird spot. It's quite the lousy PvE ability but getting it to work in PvP is very hard. The result of this kit is that Gazlowe is actually mediocre PvE and terrible PvP and just a terrible hero overall. Other heroes with weak teamfight potential compensate by great PvE or soaking abilities like abathur and murky. But gazlowe is not even that great a pusher, if he's undefended in lane to push he doesn't really push that hard even, a sonya, sylvanas or murky does more.. And those heroes are better in teamfights. Mercing with gazlowe is also pretty bad, you'd figure his kit is awesome for it but heroes like illidan, butcher and sonya do it faster while using less resources. The kit does have potential and is unique so I don't think an entire rework is neccesary, just buffing his abilities to be worth it more. The turrets are fine I think they can just use some targeting AI improvements. The lazer needs to charge faster or do more damage. And the bomb needs to be able to hit players a bit easier, I would love for example if all they did to buff gazlowe was simply changing the bomb to be manually detonated. You'd cast it, then after 1 second it's armed and you can detonate it with E again (possible while charging lazer) for the next 3 seconds after which if you haven't yet it automatically detonates. Tychus itself is not too awful, just a slight numbers buff and he'd see play again. He's actually pretty close to viable I think there are just too many other assassins out there that do better overall that tychus isn't picked. I also read someone suggest changing his Q to just let him autoattack with a buff and AoE while walking. So functionally it would be the same but his talents and effects from other heroes that boost his autoattack would make sense. It's a bit silly now that Tychus, especially with Odin, seems to be quite the autoattack hero but because he spends most time in fights using Q you don't benefit from autoattack stuff much. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45439 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On December 01 2015 00:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: How exactly does the tunnel work on ToD? I've never actually used it. Tunnel in the middle with a connecting tunnel in your base, click on it and it takes ya to the middle. :D | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45439 Posts
On December 01 2015 00:47 Zambrah wrote: Tunnel in the middle with a connecting tunnel in your base, click on it and it takes ya to the middle. :D So you can just basically warp from your core to the middle of the map? Can you warp from the middle of the map to your opponents' core too? And if so, can you damage the core that way? | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On December 01 2015 00:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: So you can just basically warp from your core to the middle of the map? Can you warp from the middle of the map to your opponents' core too? And if so, can you damage the core that way? yes, no, and no. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
Codes included - Golden Tiger Mount, Sonya (Warrior), Zeratul (Assassin), Zagara (Specialist), Li Li (Support) and Jaina (Assassin) heroes, a Ronin Zeratul Skin. Note: Not sure if Blizzard has fixed the Ronin Zeratul Skin redemption allowing for double Zeratul redemption. Previously, if you used the Ronin code, it unlocked Zeratul as well. Also Liquid Cris put up his latest hero tier list and build orders here | ||
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
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Hier
2391 Posts
On December 01 2015 05:51 wongfeihung wrote: Gazlowe redesign? But... I like the current Gazlowe. I do think he can be improved, but as far as a redesign goes, I'm hesitant, to say the least. I love Gazlowe also, he is my best and favourite hero currently. But his lazer is easily the worst ability in the entire game. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45439 Posts
On December 01 2015 06:03 Hier wrote: I love Gazlowe also, he is my best and favourite hero currently. But his lazer is easily the worst ability in the entire game. What if you could slowly walk while charging? | ||
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