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Heroes Large General Thread - Page 365

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
9055 CommentsPost a Reply
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Add yourself in the TL Player list if you want to play with TL people, and /join teamliquid channel ingame. Also check out the new Heroes Liquipedia.
KadaverBB
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany25658 Posts
March 02 2015 22:40 GMT
#7281
On March 03 2015 05:48 Heyoka wrote:
I'd like to start a support group for people who hate Haunted Mines and keep getting it in their games.


Count me in
AdministratorLaws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
March 02 2015 22:46 GMT
#7282
I like cursed hollow the most
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
March 02 2015 22:52 GMT
#7283
On March 03 2015 07:22 mordek wrote:
I'd say I enjoy haunted mines twice as much as garden terror.


Haunted mines at least ends quickly if you're just outclassed.

Garden can be hard to finish sometimes so being on the losing end is really painful. On the other hand - comeback potential (assuming you aren't all flaming each other by then).

I know that Cursed Hallow is a good map, lots of mercy a non-binary objective, opportunities for come-back and all. But that map just takes so dang long and some of the teams you get just turn every tribute fight into a conga line of lemmings leaping to their death.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
March 02 2015 22:55 GMT
#7284
On March 03 2015 07:52 Wuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 07:22 mordek wrote:
I'd say I enjoy haunted mines twice as much as garden terror.


Haunted mines at least ends quickly if you're just outclassed.

Garden can be hard to finish sometimes so being on the losing end is really painful. On the other hand - comeback potential (assuming you aren't all flaming each other by then).

I know that Cursed Hallow is a good map, lots of mercy a non-binary objective, opportunities for come-back and all. But that map just takes so dang long and some of the teams you get just turn every tribute fight into a conga line of lemmings leaping to their death.

I would really like to make a montage at some point of some ridiculous tribute fight where both teams keep feeding members into the meatgrinder one at the time, set to benny hill theme music.
Moderator
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 02 2015 22:57 GMT
#7285
I think the maps in general are too much alike at this point.
I am sure blizzard will change that, but hopefully sooner than later ;D

IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
March 02 2015 22:58 GMT
#7286
On March 03 2015 07:55 GMarshal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 07:52 Wuster wrote:
On March 03 2015 07:22 mordek wrote:
I'd say I enjoy haunted mines twice as much as garden terror.


Haunted mines at least ends quickly if you're just outclassed.

Garden can be hard to finish sometimes so being on the losing end is really painful. On the other hand - comeback potential (assuming you aren't all flaming each other by then).

I know that Cursed Hallow is a good map, lots of mercy a non-binary objective, opportunities for come-back and all. But that map just takes so dang long and some of the teams you get just turn every tribute fight into a conga line of lemmings leaping to their death.

I would really like to make a montage at some point of some ridiculous tribute fight where both teams keep feeding members into the meatgrinder one at the time, set to benny hill theme music.


Just played a game where the first tribute wasn't captured until minute 7 or 8 and people were dying the entire time...
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10167 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-02 23:12:01
March 02 2015 23:11 GMT
#7287
I love Cursed hollow. The endless teamfights for third tribute, the merc timings, etc, everything on it makes for the best map for me.

Haunted mines is the oppossite. I actually enjoy the scrappy fighting on it, but not how it quickly and on a binary fashion the game is decided the majority of time. The problem is that the earliest levels. Getting a 2/3 lvl early mid game advantadge is easy when you get the objectives and from there, it is very snowbally, since it's an easy map to finish early.

Take into account that level scaling is lineal so outside talent timings (which can also add up quite easilly the first 13 lvls), the first lvls have the biggest impact on stats for heroes. It's not the same lvl 8 to 9 from % on efficiency than 16-17 for example.

In short, the longer the map is played out, the less snowball potential in the map and bigger comeback chances.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
March 02 2015 23:47 GMT
#7288
On March 03 2015 08:11 Godwrath wrote:
I love Cursed hollow. The endless teamfights for third tribute, the merc timings, etc, everything on it makes for the best map for me.

Haunted mines is the oppossite. I actually enjoy the scrappy fighting on it, but not how it quickly and on a binary fashion the game is decided the majority of time. The problem is that the earliest levels. Getting a 2/3 lvl early mid game advantadge is easy when you get the objectives and from there, it is very snowbally, since it's an easy map to finish early.

Take into account that level scaling is lineal so outside talent timings (which can also add up quite easilly the first 13 lvls), the first lvls have the biggest impact on stats for heroes. It's not the same lvl 8 to 9 from % on efficiency than 16-17 for example.

In short, the longer the map is played out, the less snowball potential in the map and bigger comeback chances.

Yeah, Cursed Hollow probably is the best map out there, at least in my opinion. I had a laugh attack when we were fighting for like 2 minutes for one tribute in one of the games, and it was the first tribute of the game, lol. We didn't come as 5, but neither did they and we just kept killing each other, resurrecting and coming back, until they snowballed too hard and got it, but man it was super funny.

Something unexpected happened to me few days ago, I was playing Haunted Mines with a friend for 40 minutes... I couldn't believe it but the game was super super close. In the end it was 56-57 in kills or something like that and we got 350k exp.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Striker.superfreunde
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany1120 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 00:07:56
March 03 2015 00:05 GMT
#7289
On March 03 2015 08:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:

Yeah, Cursed Hollow probably is the best map out there, at least in my opinion. I had a laugh attack when we were fighting for like 2 minutes for one tribute in one of the games, and it was the first tribute of the game, lol. We didn't come as 5, but neither did they and we just kept killing each other, resurrecting and coming back, until they snowballed too hard and got it, but man it was super funny.


got the same match of couple a of minutes ago? i was a raynor

And i have to add, Raynor plays much more of what you would think of, of a man in a spacemarine suit, with commander rights.*

ofofof...

*since the patch
'Your ak is pretty... uhm... dank!'
Big G
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy835 Posts
March 03 2015 01:08 GMT
#7290
What I like about Cursed Hollow is that you aren't forced to play every objective. Team is out of position, oom, badly injured, 1 level behind, weaker in team fights at that stage? Ok fine, let's ignore the first tribute and do something else to catch up. Also the 2 bosses adds a bit of strategy to the map, there is a choice at any given time.

In Haunted Mines the map objective is just too predominant. I like the first golem because you have a few options, if you can't go for the big golem you may just collect 30ish skulls and then go back to lanes/mercs (enemy easy camp). After that there is no choice and very few chances to comeback. Losing a team fight means 80+ skulls golem and the game is essentially over.
The only thing I really like on this map is that I have the chance to experiment a bit more with team comps (at least at my lowish level), like Tassadar with upgraded shields and mules (OP!), and/or 2+ specialists with Demolitionist that can destroy at least 2 towers before the first mines.

Sky Temple is even worse though. Biggest map, shortest average duration. The problem here is that losing a team fight means that the other team can destroy forts, keeps and even the core with no further effort whatsoever. Like, there is no defender's advantage... it's totally possible to never go past mid map and still win.

GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
March 03 2015 01:19 GMT
#7291
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/games/477394-dingittv-heroes-monthly-championship#6

eg is playing in a little over an hour. Worth watching
Moderator
Eliezar
Profile Joined May 2004
United States481 Posts
March 03 2015 03:00 GMT
#7292
On March 03 2015 03:22 xDaunt wrote:
It is really, really hard to carry teams with catastrophically bad players on them because it is so hard to fight shorthanded. If you aren't able to force the other team to make mistakes and put them in positions where they are often shorthanded, you're probably going to lose. Even then, it only takes one mistake in the end game to cost your team the game -- even if you have a huge lead. In the game that I described above, I was playing as Uther and the other two players were Tychus and Muradin. We were lucky that we had the core functions of the team covered. We won most of the teamfights despite having a dipshit Zeratul and constantly split-pushing Zagara (I think I interrupted the enemy ETC's ult like 3-4 times), and still almost lost at the very end because our two newbs continued to screw up.


Yeah I think at the lower MMR levels it is all about the coin flip on your opponents. We were able to win a game yesterday with a healing spec'd Malfurian that only did 19k healing to the opponent Lili's 68k. He tried to solo push bottom lane twice and just get sniped while we were doing top golem once and going for a tribute once. We pushed in and killed a keep and when we get it 3 people spam retreat...4 of us back out and leave...Malf goes in and tries to snipe a hero 1 v 5 and none of them were hurt (4 just rezzed). I think it was probably fair because we were q'ing as 4 and the other 4 of us had good coordination, but...

Got to be a way to separate people that have a concept with people that don't even know what they are doing. There should be some sort of beginner MMR or level range where you only can face people of that new status or something...
Eliezar
Profile Joined May 2004
United States481 Posts
March 03 2015 03:05 GMT
#7293
On March 03 2015 10:08 Big G wrote:
What I like about Cursed Hollow is that you aren't forced to play every objective. Team is out of position, oom, badly injured, 1 level behind, weaker in team fights at that stage? Ok fine, let's ignore the first tribute and do something else to catch up. Also the 2 bosses adds a bit of strategy to the map, there is a choice at any given time.

In Haunted Mines the map objective is just too predominant. I like the first golem because you have a few options, if you can't go for the big golem you may just collect 30ish skulls and then go back to lanes/mercs (enemy easy camp). After that there is no choice and very few chances to comeback. Losing a team fight means 80+ skulls golem and the game is essentially over.
The only thing I really like on this map is that I have the chance to experiment a bit more with team comps (at least at my lowish level), like Tassadar with upgraded shields and mules (OP!), and/or 2+ specialists with Demolitionist that can destroy at least 2 towers before the first mines.

Sky Temple is even worse though. Biggest map, shortest average duration. The problem here is that losing a team fight means that the other team can destroy forts, keeps and even the core with no further effort whatsoever. Like, there is no defender's advantage... it's totally possible to never go past mid map and still win.



Cursed and Garden just seem to be so much more diverse and interesting in how you play it out than the other maps. I love the little things on Garden and Cursed that make for divergent strats. Like...when do you grab your terror? 2 terrors both growing what next? etc. I think how optional the tribute is on cursed is great and also the way the Golems are...it seems so often that the pattern is if you can get a golem then you either also get their golem, next tribute, or Golem solos a fort for you.

Dragonshire is okay, but not as interesting as either of those. Probably the third best map though?
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
March 03 2015 05:12 GMT
#7294
I would say cursed and garden are the more easy to play maps especially for uncoordinated teams as losing at objectives isn't fatal so its more of a sandbox style map. I find the mines are really complex in that regard. There are so many options you can choose when the mines open first, but all require your team to work together perfectly. And of course depending on what your enemy does only 1 out of 4 decisions doesn't put you in a bad position.
If it would be possible to make mines less hard to get a comeback on the map would be great for spectators. Would still be hard on the players.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
March 03 2015 05:28 GMT
#7295
On March 03 2015 14:12 FeyFey wrote:
I would say cursed and garden are the more easy to play maps especially for uncoordinated teams as losing at objectives isn't fatal so its more of a sandbox style map. I find the mines are really complex in that regard. There are so many options you can choose when the mines open first, but all require your team to work together perfectly. And of course depending on what your enemy does only 1 out of 4 decisions doesn't put you in a bad position.
If it would be possible to make mines less hard to get a comeback on the map would be great for spectators. Would still be hard on the players.


Any strategy in this game requires your team to work together. The good part about mines is that the map is tiny and doesn't have many options so the optimal play is obvious and everyone is on the same page. It is so much easier to herd a team to victory on mines than cursed or garden. Good luck convincing your entire team to take golem instead of going for tribute since your team is out of position.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
March 03 2015 12:58 GMT
#7296
I wouldn't mind more maps with 2 bosses, that's sort of a fun gimmick that adds a weird dynamic.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
March 03 2015 14:44 GMT
#7297
I like Cursed for having two bosses especially defined very much as "this is our boss" because it allows the losing team the ability to cap the boss. On maps like BHB or Sky whoever has map control pretty much is also given the boss as well.
Wat
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10167 Posts
March 03 2015 15:05 GMT
#7298
Actually the 2 bosses is the bad part of Cursed for me. Since if you take one Boss a bit later on the game, the enemy team is either forced to deal with it and give up their own boss, or they lose a keep and try to get their own boss (which you can teamfight for).

Scouting boss possible timings is very important in that map.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17931 Posts
March 03 2015 15:23 GMT
#7299
Blizzard announces the $40 founder's pack to squeeze some cash out of their investment in their "hero brawler"
a few weeks later i've got 3 free beta keys.

i wonder if Heroes of the Storm will be Blizzard's first ever commercial failure?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
March 03 2015 15:43 GMT
#7300
This game is not going to be a failure
Wat
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