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On March 04 2015 06:47 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 06:43 xDaunt wrote:
I'm just surprised at how quickly fishing hook/gorge builds have gone out of style -- and for no good reason, too. All these stupid slam/bile builds are no where near as good in pub play. Im also surprised as to how much zeratuls i see pickin the auto atack heroic. I saw an eurpoean team use it this month, but i still think void prission is better, am i out of meta? Or are people being..people?
For the most part, they're probably just being retarded. I have never thought to myself "Gee, I wish I had shadow assault." Even if my team didn't have wombo combo potential, I still would rather have void prison to split the enemy team (isolating Rehgar is particularly useful). Zeratul just doesn't do enough damage with AA builds, and he gets blown up instantly if caught by the enemy team. And his burst is just too damned good -- especially when you pick up rewind.
EDIT: I take it back. There is one situation where I do wish I had shadow assault: whenever I'm responsible for neutralizing an enemy nazeebo. The extra damage and stickiness (to counter sprint) are very useful in that circumstance. You can deal with pretty much everyone else with your basic skills.
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Okay, now I think that illidan should be nerfed simply by having mana
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Illidan is so easy to neutralize with BW. Whenever an Illidan dives into my team, I just poly him, basically suicide. Unless my team can coordinate well, I never choose Illidan in solo games.
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Illidan is very team dependant. Against a bad team (one that doesn't work as a team), he'll easily wreck face with everyone.
Stuns and interrupts murder Illidan but not everyone has them. As Muradin I can deal with him easily, but especially Assassins have to be careful since you can't run away from Illidan. His global map attack is annoying as hell.
I main Zagara and the Hydra/Mutalisk can usually keep him at bay.
Once I get double Muta he'll generally die from the combined DPS before I go down.
Still, I do find it odd that Illidan has no mana as well.
He can just keep going and every attack reduces what little cooldowns he has.
Zeratul is equally as frustrating to deal with if he is played well, so much burst damage out of nowhere. (can't always watch the blurs)
Still, having tons of fun with Zagara, spreading creep and Nydus worms everywhere.
I initially went with the Maw but with Nydus worms you can quickly join any objective/team fight and I can use it to get a free transport between the main base to heal and back again. It also blocks corridors if placed properly (like that narrow path below Blackheart's chest) as well as Nova's Triple Tap so it has some special uses as well.
With Endless Creep I can cover half the map with creep (giving me a lot of health regen and more mobility as well as vision for the whole team) and double Mutalisks deal a lot of damage that is a lot harder to avoid than Hydras because they can fly.
Nydus is also a nice escape if a teamfight goes bad, since damage doesn't interrupt getting in a Nydus.
Zagara also feels like that Hero you shouldn't ignore for too long or she'll push the lane heavily (though not as heavily as Azmodan I guess) and on creep (especially early game) I can outlast heroes easily without needing a fountain (maybe for mana).
As for downsides, with Nydus I don't get an Ultimate that can damage anything (Maw is nice in that regard since it can setup a kill for the other team members) but Nydus is just so darn handy. Zagara is also bit squishy if she can't keep range.
I usually go for Bolt of the Storm to help a little bit with that since the Nydus talent with Broodlings is useless. (each Nydus should periodically spawn them if they want to use Broodlings)
Still, Zagara is just a lot of fun, especially when you kill a Warrior hero with a lot of health and she goes FEEBLE CREATURE!
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On March 04 2015 06:58 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Okay, now I think that illidan should be nerfed simply by having mana
God, no way.
Illidan gets shut down so hard by a competent team. He needs the ability to zip around a battle without being inhibited by mana. He's already one of the most exposed assassins (melee range, no stealth, low hp), nerfing him by making him mana-dependent would be bad in my opinion.
I rarely see an Illidan carry hard. He can be annoying 1v1 but in a team fight where the opposition is ready for him? 
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It is as silly as jumping on a Muradin who has an anti melee skill set. But melee assassins tend to overcommit as they lack the vision when they chase someone.
There are good Illidans though who know when to engage. And those are scary.
Hammer and Gazlow are crazy fun together. Mines and Turrets everywhere. First time I went for full damage on Hammer as we also had 2 tanks. Things exploded. (no side had healers)
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The more experience I get with Kerrigan, the more I feel like the enemy comp doesn't matter to your success as much as your DPS comp does. Kerrigan almost requires another POWERFUL DPS, such as Valla, Tychus, Falstad, or Jaina. If I pick out a target as Kerrigan and one of those guys are with me, the target will die, and I have a strong chance of escaping. But if they aren't there and I'm the main DPS, I feel like Kerrigan's usefulness drops off sharply.
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Barrel boys...so much split objectiving going on. And...Kind of surprised they didn't kill the opposing boss instead of tribute when the other side was only at 1 and they were on the far side of the map already. They sure are good.
And as far as good players avoiding abilities...Diablo stun ultimate got the entire other team twice that I saw. Not really sure how that happens (yeah Nazeebo is channeling another person might be stunned/rooted, but the entire team?)
So fun watching them play. And the patience from both teams not to commit...
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since there was a bit of stitches last page: how bad am i for not trusting my healer in soloQ and taking a full healing specc with chew your food/amplified healing/ Savor the flavor.
especially the latter is nearly never picked in master league, but I'm really digging the regen it gives. i dont miss the tenderizer, but i guess in higher ranks it's better?! (r 21 atm)
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At higher ranks if someone sees you going so defensive build you will/should get ignored. You need to pose enough threat for other team to actually be concerned about you in team fights. Other way you are just big pile of meat with hook. Sometimes its enough, sometimes it isn't. up to you to decide what role you should play in a game.
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healing build on stitches is fine, the decisions on him are pretty close. It depends a bit what you do want later though, usually you want the stun and greater slam area in which case I really like the poison on slam which just really helps clearing waves and keeping them low. For the first talent most pro's seem to prefer more healing now which is reasonable I think, it makes you survive much better and the extra damage on slam becomes a bit insignificant if you already have the DoT effect and extra damage later.
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wouldn't mind a reduction in his evade duration but also decrease cooldown. It makes him harder to use but the gameplay doesn't suffer for the nerf.
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Dunno, Chew Your Food seems almost irrelevant compared to 50% more damage on Slam.
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Chew your food is better for Pick (fishing hook) Stitches. Slam dmg is when you are going slam Stitches. Very few exceptions to that rule. It allows you to spend more time in the battlefield trying to get hooks. If you have slam dmg you will have much less overall healing and will need to back more frequent, which is fine since Slam Build is a teamfight build.
Also chew your food makes Stitches have one of the strongest laning phases in the game. You can just yolo trade and abuse your passive, then hit E and you are basically full healed. It basically becomes a second moonwell.
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On March 04 2015 22:42 Hryul wrote:
since there was a bit of stitches last page: how bad am i for not trusting my healer in soloQ and taking a full healing specc with chew your food/amplified healing/ Savor the flavor.
especially the latter is nearly never picked in master league, but I'm really digging the regen it gives. i dont miss the tenderizer, but i guess in higher ranks it's better?! (r 21 atm)
I'm a lower rank than you, but I personally find Stiches' HP and base regen/healing with Devour good enough even with a bad healer.
As other's say Stiches can do huge damage so you can control a fight pretty well just by being intimidating and hitting things with Slam. Early on, I often see Stiches keeping up with DPS on hero damage so it's a pretty big sacrifice to go full healing build.
Tenderizer is very subtle, but it does make people afraid to get tangled up with you as they'll have a dot and a slow on them and an angry abomination beating on them (assuming you went slam build). It's also nice to jam up their front line from trying to get around you towards your healer / dps. I don't know if the c/d reduction is applicable enough to be worth it (but I haven't tried, maybe Devour killing blows are easier to time than I think) and Savor the Flavor seems like it would take a long time to stack up to something worthwhile, how much bonus HP do you usually end a game with?
I would recommend you try Tenderizer and see how you like it.
Edit: Seeing Diamond's post and your's makes me think I should try a Chew build and see how I like it =p.
On March 05 2015 00:14 Lokian wrote:
wouldn't mind a reduction in his evade duration but also decrease cooldown. It makes him harder to use but the gameplay doesn't suffer for the nerf.
I'm not sure if he was stealth buffed, or if it was a ui change, but he's now unstoppable when he Dives and Sweeping Strikes (Dive for sure, not 100% sure on Sweeping Strike).
I *think* before he took damage immediately, then any status effects once he finished the animation. But now he just ignores status effects due to unstoppable. So I'm pretty sure he was stealth buffed, but I could be wrong.
I haven't tested a whole lot yet, so hopefully I'm not just posting a bunch of garbage on why Illidan's suddenly better (not to mention nerfs to Kerrigan and Thrall lifted him up meta-wise).
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edit, forget other post
I usually end up with a minimum of 10 stacks and i'm quite sure the healing is affected by amplified healing, so it's about 30-50 hp/s.
it's not only that it helps me fighting, it also reliefs the healer and he can keep a look on the squishies.
I just have the feeling that it's often hit/miss if the DDs can agree on one target or not. and if they can't I can soak sooo much dmg.
i tried the slow some time a go and there was way too much escaper for my taste. maybe that has changed now.
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So, are the players becoming more toxic in quick match or am I just on a bad streak? In related issues, the ignore list needs to be something like 100 times bigger.
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On March 05 2015 04:42 h41fgod wrote:
So, are the players becoming more toxic in quick match or am I just on a bad streak? In related issues, the ignore list needs to be something like 100 times bigger.
how big is now?
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i like going slam talents + fishing hook vs double healer comps, especially if we already have 1-2 other interupts on our team (or if they dont have any ults that need interrupting but thats pretty rare).
but yea i usually stick to regen master/amplified/savor the flavor/bile (aggro bile due to high regen, it also has good synergy with hardened shield) on orb heavy maps and slam + bile (defensive bile while kiting back) on maps like haunted mines or if were running duo tank. fishing hook still has its place tho, ive been using it alot more recently, its really strong on maps like cursed hollow.
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On March 05 2015 03:49 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 22:42 Hryul wrote:
since there was a bit of stitches last page: how bad am i for not trusting my healer in soloQ and taking a full healing specc with chew your food/amplified healing/ Savor the flavor.
especially the latter is nearly never picked in master league, but I'm really digging the regen it gives. i dont miss the tenderizer, but i guess in higher ranks it's better?! (r 21 atm) I'm a lower rank than you, but I personally find Stiches' HP and base regen/healing with Devour good enough even with a bad healer. As other's say Stiches can do huge damage so you can control a fight pretty well just by being intimidating and hitting things with Slam. Early on, I often see Stiches keeping up with DPS on hero damage so it's a pretty big sacrifice to go full healing build. Tenderizer is very subtle, but it does make people afraid to get tangled up with you as they'll have a dot and a slow on them and an angry abomination beating on them (assuming you went slam build). It's also nice to jam up their front line from trying to get around you towards your healer / dps. I don't know if the c/d reduction is applicable enough to be worth it (but I haven't tried, maybe Devour killing blows are easier to time than I think) and Savor the Flavor seems like it would take a long time to stack up to something worthwhile, how much bonus HP do you usually end a game with? I would recommend you try Tenderizer and see how you like it. Edit: Seeing Diamond's post and your's makes me think I should try a Chew build and see how I like it =p. Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 00:14 Lokian wrote:
wouldn't mind a reduction in his evade duration but also decrease cooldown. It makes him harder to use but the gameplay doesn't suffer for the nerf. I'm not sure if he was stealth buffed, or if it was a ui change, but he's now unstoppable when he Dives and Sweeping Strikes (Dive for sure, not 100% sure on Sweeping Strike). I *think* before he took damage immediately, then any status effects once he finished the animation. But now he just ignores status effects due to unstoppable. So I'm pretty sure he was stealth buffed, but I could be wrong. I haven't tested a whole lot yet, so hopefully I'm not just posting a bunch of garbage on why Illidan's suddenly better (not to mention nerfs to Kerrigan and Thrall lifted him up meta-wise).
I don't know how it was last patch but illidan is indeed immune to almost everything when he is doing his Q. This makes him painfully hard to stop even with a god of cc like ETC.
Between this immunity and the almost immunity from evasion, the mobility from sweeping strike and dive, the heal, metamorphosis, cd reduction & heal on autos, bfb, he's just wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too tanky for an assassin. He doesn't deal a lot of damage but he will wear you out without a problem and since he's the best chaser ingame you won't escape :-/.
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EPT
