EPTHeroes Large General Thread - Page 369
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
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Garsecg
United States129 Posts
The cons of getting these two talents are you give up a lot of damage (immolation or marked for death) to get fel reach, and for lunge, you give up more damage in the form of giant killer. I won't say you give up survivability on lvl 13 because the extra dive range can be used to help you survive in addition to giving you powerful offensive utility. Given that survivability isn't an issue, I pick up the hunt over metamorphosis when getting the ranged talents. The increased reach on your two main abilities allows you to dash out of a death-ball virtually every time. Fel Reach says it gives 20% more ranged, but it FEELS like a lot more than that. When playing Illidan this way, I always do far less damage... but i die much less, and when pursuing the enemy team, you never lose. Your sweeping strike nearly covers the distance of Valla's vault, and with lunge, you can Dive a vault's distance towards an enemy hero. Further, with fel reach, sweeping strike allows you to go OVER the enemy MUCH more. If you're good at body blocking, this gives you the ability to trap and body block heroes more frequently. Not sure this is the best way to play Illidan, but if you consider your job as Illidan to chase and to be annoying... I definitely think it's a playstyle that you should try a few times in QM to see if it is preferable. I don't enjoy playing the tanky, metamorphosis Illidan. Ignoring how good I am at it, I like trying to fashion Illidan into a surgical knife that can dart in, confuse the enemy, stun/do some damage, and repeat. The problem with this is he becomes much more of an offensive support than an assassin, and without the damage to back him up, this build and the idea behind it falters. | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On March 05 2015 22:44 Big G wrote: Well double support is totally fine, especially if one of them is Tassadar/Tyrande which have a slightly different role. In theory it shouldn't be less viable than the double tank or double assassin comps we saw for months. If the meta shifts consistently towards triple support... that may be a sign of imbalance. I guess that since the vast majority of players dislikes high burst damage (old Nova), and Blizzard has been balancing accordingly, team fights are slower and healing is more relevant (Ancestral Healing being the best example). IMO the ideal meta would be 1tank 1healer 2dps 1flex. Dps can be melee assassin, ranged assassin or specialist. 1 of each type (tank, healer, melee assassin or second tank, ranged assassin and specialist) sounds interesting and supports variety in hero choices. That is why i think 2-3 supports is not ideal meta, there are 7 supports counting tass and tyrande, 5 dedicated healers. The total number of heroes is 34. People complain that we see the same heroes every match, this is not helping. Of course the weak heroes are the main issue, but i think this is another issue that is overlooked, balance between classes and not between heroes in the same class. The overall tank nerf was good, but now i think healers must be tuned down a bit and the weak heroes buffed. And im saying nerf healing and not an specific healer because they are decently balanced between each other, altough it can improve, of course. I think that if all healing effects are reduced by 30% (not that i support such a huge change, this could hurt gameplay) teams would still play with single healer compositions. A good team composition must have a tank, healer and dps (crowd control too, but any class can fill it) on this game. Since there are few healers (i assume for lore reasons) one healer should be enough and even if they are considerably weaker they will still be a necessity. But i do support slower teamfights, everything blowing up in seconds is not interesting or fun (unless its super well executed wombo combo  ) | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
On March 05 2015 07:04 Godwrath wrote: The main problem with Illidan is not evade, dive or Health pool potential, but First aid and Stoneskin talents, both talents make a manageable (even tho good) assassin into something better than many tanks at burst suvirvality since they fully synergize with his ultimate, which already works as a out of jail card many times. I love Illidan, and i wouldn't nerf any of its skills, i would just switch/change/remove those talents from him. Also, no, you are not inmune while diving, you take damage, and you also take CC, it's a powerful tool to avoid CC tho, and there are skills that will have a very hard time targeting him if he uses it proactively (Muradin's stormbolt for example). But i wouldn't nerf his gameplay, he is just too darn fun to play to make him another vanilla hero. The biggest thing that made Illidan playable was tanks nerfs, and removal of rewind from some key heroes that made his life miserable, Brightwind and Kerrigan imo. Try using ETC's stun or knockback on an illidan who is diving -> he will never eat the CC. A simple test you can do : use dive when a boss (golem) is about to stun : you don't take the CC. There are probably cc's that go through it but the ones I named do not work I'm 100% sure. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Just had a game where the first comment was "great we have Vikings and they have two healers ~.~". Then the Viking player split up on all lanes, we had the typicial epic death fight for the first tribute lost it but got 2 levels ahead thanks to Vikings. Enemy couldn't kill anyone and we could just walk in pick out one opponent pull them out of the heal range and kill them. If we had been behind in levels we wouldn't have been able to kill anyone on the other team with our composition. I personally like it that the optimal composition is map depended. And that there is no setup to rule them all, but it does mean that the meta will run in circles. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On March 06 2015 01:38 RouaF wrote: + Show Spoiler + Try using ETC's stun or knockback on an illidan who is diving -> he will never eat the CC. A simple test you can do : use dive when a boss (golem) is about to stun : you don't take the CC. There are probably cc's that go through it but the ones I named do not work I'm 100% sure. Yep, confirm your points about ETC and golem. Illidan is unstopabble while using Dive, i assume that means he is immune to stuns and roots. Not sure if he will be chilled or slowed after the dive if hit by Jaina or a slow effect. Not sure about polymorph too =/ Maybe he dives as a pig -_- | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On March 05 2015 23:59 mordek wrote: Need dat grievous wounds debuff. Might be a talent at some point? Naw, what they really need is a WoW warrior =p. Grom, Suarfang, heck, I'll accept Varian Wynn I guess (stupid alliance). Come to think of it, having healing / sustain is a thing from WoW, and lots of classes there had anti-heal mechanics, DK's had an attack that was a reverse shield (it ate healing, but didn't do much actual damage on the hero), Warriors were famous for their healing reduced debuff (since they had it first and for a while no one else did). I think Rogues, Hunters and maybe another class later got the healing taken debuff too, but I never played those classes. I guess if thematically Sylvannas could be an anti-healer (change Black Arrow to reduce healing by x% on target for y seconds), but I'm hearing that she's going to be a specialist. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On March 06 2015 04:47 Wuster wrote: Wasn't wounding poison such a huge damage lose compared to other poisons that rogues just didn't use it? I didn't play Vanilla and don't recall Rogues normally debuffing healing during TBC. Rogues used wounding poison extensively in TBC for arena. It was never really used in vanilla because PvP was much burstier and PvE didnt ned it. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On March 06 2015 04:55 Ghostcom wrote: Rogues used wounding poison extensively in TBC for arena. It was never really used in vanilla because PvP was much burstier and PvE didnt ned it. Got it, I didn't arena much in TBC, mostly battlegrounds. Arms warriors felt like gods there (other than against mages iirc). I got a huge wake-up call in LK when things got more balanced (other than DK's being OP through most of that x-pac). On March 06 2015 05:23 Tenks wrote: Why not just make a generic talent on warriors available at like 7 which applies a -30% (maybe more?) healing debuff on auto attack. Also leaves room for a warrior with MS to apply a greater healing debuff off skill. My suggestion that they just add a Warrior was more tongue in cheek. I mained a Tauren warrior from TCB to MoP so am very attached to the class =p. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On March 06 2015 05:34 Wuster wrote: My suggestion that they just add a Warrior was more tongue in cheek. I mained a Tauren warrior from TCB to MoP so am very attached to the class =p. I'd be shocked if we don't get a warrior at some point. | ||
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Khaldor
Germany861 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On March 06 2015 05:34 Wuster wrote: Got it, I didn't arena much in TBC, mostly battlegrounds. Arms warriors felt like gods there (other than against mages iirc). I got a huge wake-up call in LK when things got more balanced (other than DK's being OP through most of that x-pac). They were OP in first two seasons(s5 and s6), they were good in s7, and were just tanky control bots in s8 because other classes were doing far more damage with PvE gear from that patch, casters with more than 1k haste and Warriors with Shadowmourne etc. So, not exactly through most of the expansion, but they were ugly in first two seasons, that is for sure. | ||
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