Heroes Large General Thread - Page 329

On February 12 2015 13:24 TT1 wrote:
pressure point should still be available @ lvl 7 on chen, having both pressure point and combination attack at 16 makes no fucking sense.. you already nerfed both talents hard, wasnt that enough?

On February 12 2015 19:53 Swisslink wrote:



I kinda feel like Chen is the tankiest champ in the game now. At least if the opponents haven't got a lot of stun, it seems to be impossible to die. xD
On the other side... Chen doesn't do shit beside drinking and tanking the dmg. Which is really weird compared to the pre-patch Chen... :-/
I'd agree that pressure Point should go back to Level 7, on level 16 there are simply too many good talents right now. And before that Chen's just drinking and... well... Waiting...

Bought the Lost Vikings yesterday and... I like them. If multiple fights go on at the same time and I try to participate in both... That's really weird to play. xD
So far I used the long range dude alone, while using the others together. Simply because the long range guy is way too fast to stick to the fat guy. :-P
Think it'll take some time until I figured out how to play them, but there is potential, imo.

On February 12 2015 21:01 Markwerf wrote:
For arthas I like this build now:
http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/arthas#h9qx
His aura stayed about the same I think.
Without talents you gain 15% radius and about 30% damage for 20% increased manacost. With talents you lose ~10% radius (125% before, now 115% of the old vanilla radius) and the manacost stays the same (assuming you take the reduced manacost at lvl 4 now). So net you are exchanging a bit of radius for a good deal of damage.
The real loss of course here is envenom, you can't take it anymore but in return you get a lvl 1 talent now. Block or regeneration master are both fine, depending on the map and their composition a bit.
Rune tap also loses a bit, but it isn't all too bad, still take it because the rest quite stinks there.
Sendrigosa instead of legion is a given now I think, legion just lost too much by basically having 20% less healing and ghouls so weak some AoE's can actually clear them. Sendrigosa with the small buff it got is fine though, but makes arthas just less good at diving but a better pusher. I quite like sendrigosa now actually.
At level 13 biting cold is fantastic now, it used to be mediocre with the increased manacost but now that's gone and his aura has been changed to be more of a damage spell so boosting that damage even more is fantastic. It's about 65% of the dps of psionic storm now with biting cold but permanently if you want including a slow effect, quite good. With stuff like rewind storm bolt or rewind polymorph gone (at least till lvl 20) not taking relentless isn't as bad i think.
Finally level 20 hardened shield is great, it doesn't make him as surviveable as the old arthas but it helps quite a bit.

Alternative build is the frostmoure hungers build which blizzard triest to force as an option but I don't like it as much:
http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/arthas#kd_D
The frostmourne talents are simply quite lackluster before lvl 16 I think. For example eternal hunger at best gives 30 mana per 12 seconds (which you'll never reach), which is a bit lackluster compared to something like conjurer's pursuit which gives 6 mana per 12 seconds right of the bat but grows much bigger quickly. Destruction similarly is 50% extra damage every 12 seconds at best, while something like focussed attack does more straight of the bat and on heroes with actually decent attackdamage to start off with. Finally obliterate is also lackluster to other cleaving effects. The only saving grace for these talents maybe is the double frostmourne hunger on 16, but before that you have some awful talents. And at level 16 you kinda want stoneskin especially since legion is lackluster now and probably inferior to sendrigosa.

So overall I'd take the upper build. Compared to arthas previous patch you have lost envenom but gain block/regen master and your frost aura has lost of a bit of radius for a good amount of damage. Rune tap heals slightly less and you probably switch out legion for sendrigosa. Overall arthas is definately weaker but not all that much I think, he mostly shifts role a bit of dealing more sustained damage and better at pushing but not being as tanky. Not sure yet if that's something you want now, for a hero with no escape being extremely tanking is usually the only way to survive which you'll only make up as arthas now when you get hardened shield. Before that you actually nee a bit more careful play now and focussing arthas can pay off now.
Stitches, muradin and tyrael seemed to have lost about as much though so I still think their relative ordering will stay about the same. The other warriors just got a lot closer, for example ETC who was already on the uprise might be one of the better warriors now by simply not being nerfed. Chen seems to have been nerfed more so won't come back and sonya and diablo were too bad to be decent now by their tiny buffs I think but we'll see. I guess the top warrior will still be stitches and the other warrior you want if you can't get stitches is probably ETC, arthas or muradin depending on what fits better for you and what you want to counter.

As a whole the class seems lackluster now and I wouldn't want more than 1 warrior on the team and don't want be wasting early picks on them.

First picks this patch imo are Valla, Zeratul, Uther and Tassadar.
Valla because she is the only god tier hero left untouched and actually got a nice lvl 20 talent for her that is situationally great (if you don't need bolt). Zeratul lost a little before lvl 20 but becomes a beast with rewind, quad bomb can kill even slightly tankier heroes. Uther is insane now because he is the only great support left, before brightwing and uther were relatively close not making them early picks because the other team would just get the other (and the combination wasn't good enough to grab both). However now getting Uther while the other team gets Rehgar or Malf is quite an advantage. Finally tassadar is still a great hybrid dps support which is even more useful because zeratul is so good now.

On February 13 2015 02:36 Tenks wrote:
I'll be interested to see if Zeratul is really as good as everyone is suspecting. If you go 4 bombs build you have lost out on a certain amount of mobility with the removal of Bolt from the build and you've lost out on 50% of Cleave's old damage or ~200 damage at 20. 4 bombs does a good amount of damage no question. Each does 300 per hit or 1200 damage to a single target if all four land. If you have full GP that is now 1380. A good amount of damage but not enough to one-shot anyone. I know we can't 1:1 compare DOTA to Heroes but it isn't unheard of for certain heroes (Lion, Lina) to have an ult that does outstanding single target damage but the hero itself is still balanced. Of course this isn't also factoring in you'll hit them with a Void Slash Cleave (540) and then a non-Void cleave as well (415.) So if you can blink in, cleave, bomb, bomb, rw, cleave, bomb, bomb you'll do a grand total of 2335 damage. This still isn't enough to one-shot a Valla who will have 2900 HP at 20. -edit- Whoops forgot GP on the cleaves as well. 600 + 475 + 1380 = 2455. -edit-

So basically the new Zeratul gains the following the ability to do 4x bombs for 1380 damage at 20 but loses Bolt, 50% cleave damage and 5% ability damage w/ new GP. Still probably a top-tier pick because VP still brings so much utility to team fights as well. But it isn't like he's Nova where she could one shot a Valla once Rewind came online.

On February 13 2015 03:52 Big G wrote:

W does 500 damage each @20, I have a feeling that Valla dies in a couple seconds even with spell shield on.

Also if you're in trouble you can rewind to get another blink, so losing Bolt isn't that bad.