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On November 26 2014 06:54 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 06:26 ssxsilver wrote:
Definitely agree but alas it's alpha and major balances usually come in beta. Double Odin is easily the most faceroll of combos though... why the fuck does it take them 6 weeks to do patch ? we have been testing the same shit for so long im tired of seeing same heroes over and over dominating everything, the fact theres so little room for outplay because laning phase doesnt exist makes it even more frustrating, atm team with better heroes almost always wins
because they learned from old games where they overpatched on behalf of the community and still have to work with issues they created back then for them self.
It is more likely they are encountering severe bugs in their current build, they need to take care of first though or are unhappy with how some changes turned out.
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On November 26 2014 22:34 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 06:54 kongoline wrote:On November 26 2014 06:26 ssxsilver wrote:
Definitely agree but alas it's alpha and major balances usually come in beta. Double Odin is easily the most faceroll of combos though... why the fuck does it take them 6 weeks to do patch ? we have been testing the same shit for so long im tired of seeing same heroes over and over dominating everything, the fact theres so little room for outplay because laning phase doesnt exist makes it even more frustrating, atm team with better heroes almost always wins because they learned from old games where they overpatched on behalf of the community and still have to work with issues they created back then for them self. It is more likely they are encountering severe bugs in their current build, they need to take care of first though or are unhappy with how some changes turned out.
nobody asks them to do huge changes every patch but small with more frequent patches, also they dont have to listen to cesspool of subhuman posting on official forums when they have access to data from the games, they also could ask people who play this game on highest level right now and do the changes based on that, but its blizzard they rarely listen to pro players and often do their own backwards changes nobody understands which later backfire
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On November 26 2014 22:34 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 06:54 kongoline wrote:On November 26 2014 06:26 ssxsilver wrote:
Definitely agree but alas it's alpha and major balances usually come in beta. Double Odin is easily the most faceroll of combos though... why the fuck does it take them 6 weeks to do patch ? we have been testing the same shit for so long im tired of seeing same heroes over and over dominating everything, the fact theres so little room for outplay because laning phase doesnt exist makes it even more frustrating, atm team with better heroes almost always wins because they learned from old games where they overpatched on behalf of the community and still have to work with issues they created back then for them self. It is more likely they are encountering severe bugs in their current build, they need to take care of first though or are unhappy with how some changes turned out.
In which old games did Blizzard ever overpatch?
SC/BW? Nah.
WC3? Nah.
WoW? Not really... And the few horrible imbalances (PvE, who cares about PvP), were reverted pretty fast.
Diablo 3? At release this pile of shit was in dire need of all the patches it got. You could argue that the first few took way too long to happen.
SC2? People bitch since Beta about the same stuff and just now they seem to finally deal with the real issues instead of just randomly changing bunkers.
So, in which game did they ever patch too fast?
Are Balance patches needed for Heroes now?
That depends... If you "believe" this is still in Alpha, then not. If you believe its basically released (which you could easily argue for... they take Money and stuff) then yes, if there are actual imbalances, go patch it?.
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On November 26 2014 22:57 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 22:34 FeyFey wrote:On November 26 2014 06:54 kongoline wrote:On November 26 2014 06:26 ssxsilver wrote:
Definitely agree but alas it's alpha and major balances usually come in beta. Double Odin is easily the most faceroll of combos though... why the fuck does it take them 6 weeks to do patch ? we have been testing the same shit for so long im tired of seeing same heroes over and over dominating everything, the fact theres so little room for outplay because laning phase doesnt exist makes it even more frustrating, atm team with better heroes almost always wins because they learned from old games where they overpatched on behalf of the community and still have to work with issues they created back then for them self. It is more likely they are encountering severe bugs in their current build, they need to take care of first though or are unhappy with how some changes turned out. nobody asks them to do huge changes every patch but small with more frequent patches, also they dont have to listen to cesspool of subhuman posting on official forums when they have access to data from the games, they also could ask people who play this game on highest level right now and do the changes based on that, but its blizzard they rarely listen to pro players and often do their own backwards changes nobody understands which later backfire
agreed, I don't have much faith in Blizzard's balance team.
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Mexico2170 Posts
You don't need to kill an opponent to outplay it in the early phase, in fact I would argue that in most situations killing an enemy in the early game is bad for you.
For example, you are on cursed hollow, in a 2v2 on top lane, then the nova from your team comes and you 3 manage to kill an opponent. Now what? You get a little exp but who cares, they are not losing exp from the lane because of the other hero and The tribute is about to spawn and he will just come back with full healt, and you won't have full health. However is you play very well and deal a lot of damage to your opponents, maybe even force them to use their healing fountain and when the tribute spawns you've got almost full health and they got like a little more than half health, that's great. If all your team played well when the team fight comes you will have a big health advantage that can be crucial.
Of course there are a lot of other things to take into consideration but I think it's a good example of even if you don't kill an opponent, you can gain a great advantage on some cases.
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United States42 Posts
On November 26 2014 22:24 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 21:50 ETisME wrote:On November 26 2014 16:02 iakona13 wrote:On November 26 2014 11:55 deth2munkies wrote:
So did Liquid's heroes team disband? Someone just said it did on the Town Hall podcast... So 3 of the members have left. However, liquid is not done with the game That's really quick, I wonder what happened I think they formed a team pretty much solely for Blizzcon.
I don't think they originally intended for the team to be just for Blizzcon, so there's probably some other reason for that. It will just be interesting to see what happens with the remaining two members
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United States42 Posts
On November 27 2014 02:21 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
You don't need to kill an opponent to outplay it in the early phase, in fact I would argue that in most situations killing an enemy in the early game is bad for you.
For example, you are on cursed hollow, in a 2v2 on top lane, then the nova from your team comes and you 3 manage to kill an opponent. Now what? You get a little exp but who cares, they are not losing exp from the lane because of the other hero and The tribute is about to spawn and he will just come back with full healt, and you won't have full health. However is you play very well and deal a lot of damage to your opponents, maybe even force them to use their healing fountain and when the tribute spawns you've got almost full health and they got like a little more than half health, that's great. If all your team played well when the team fight comes you will have a big health advantage that can be crucial.
Of course there are a lot of other things to take into consideration but I think it's a good example of even if you don't kill an opponent, you can gain a great advantage on some cases.
You also forgot the fact that you are probably losing xp for the lane that nova just left from. Early kills don't really mean much unless you take advantage of them. If you killed everyone in lane, then you get xp advantage. You could also cap a shrine, or take a merc camp. Otherwise the xp from the kill alone is not worth the fact that you aren't soaking 3 lanes in the early game.
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It doesn't take much in terms of early kills to get a half level advantage in xp. Given how the objectives are timed, that half level is often decisive.
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On November 27 2014 02:36 xDaunt wrote:
It doesn't take much in terms of early kills to get a half level advantage in xp. Given how the objectives are timed, that half level is often decisive.
Hardly. Every single level reduces a lead that you have built. A half level lead at 1-9 means nothing, only the 10-15 seconds where you're 10 and they're 9.
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And thats imho a problem. If one side gets crushed.. so be it, let the game end in 10mins and don't force 5-10 more minutes of futile gameplay.
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On November 27 2014 03:15 Velr wrote:
And thats imho a problem. If one side gets crushed.. so be it, let the game end in 10mins and don't force 5-10 more minutes of futile gameplay.
As opposed to the 30 min stalls we get with Dota?
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On November 27 2014 03:15 Velr wrote:
And thats imho a problem. If one side gets crushed.. so be it, let the game end in 10mins and don't force 5-10 more minutes of futile gameplay.
I don't know how much you played Hots, and on what level for the matter, but if one side gets crushed game can end in 10 mins, my fastest win was 8 mins or so. In Dota games are often over in 5 mins, then they take 20+ more mins to finish, so i don't even understand what is your general problem here. Games take time to finish.
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A half level early is the equivalent of being up 2 or 3 to 1 and getting first blood in DotA. It's not an advantage that should automatically decide the game.
A 2 level lead early is the kind that lead to 10 minute games, and usually represent a 10-0 or so lead.
The issue with HotS is that the death timers for early objectives are negligible. Look at mines for example: if you kill someone right as the mines open, they will be back at the mines in under 30 seconds, not even enough time to clear more than 2-3 camps. Add to it they're at full hp and mana and you've already spent at least some killing them in the first place. This can lead to mines games where the fight over that first Golem go back and forth forever because people just rally back in.
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On November 27 2014 03:32 Narw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 03:15 Velr wrote:
And thats imho a problem. If one side gets crushed.. so be it, let the game end in 10mins and don't force 5-10 more minutes of futile gameplay. In Dota games are often over in 5 mins, then they take 20+ more mins to finish
that's news to me
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On November 27 2014 04:41 trifecta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 03:32 Narw wrote:On November 27 2014 03:15 Velr wrote:
And thats imho a problem. If one side gets crushed.. so be it, let the game end in 10mins and don't force 5-10 more minutes of futile gameplay. In Dota games are often over in 5 mins, then they take 20+ more mins to finish that's news to me
Unless its an absolute stomp.. its typically difficult to even tell who's actually in the lead these days until 15 minutes or so.
Gold/exp leads mean so little now with heroes like spectre and ember.
Narw has no idea what he's talking about.
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On November 27 2014 02:42 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 02:36 xDaunt wrote:
It doesn't take much in terms of early kills to get a half level advantage in xp. Given how the objectives are timed, that half level is often decisive. Hardly. Every single level reduces a lead that you have built. A half level lead at 1-9 means nothing, only the 10-15 seconds where you're 10 and they're 9.
Yeah, it's that level 10 vs level 9 that really matters. The maps usually force a fight right at that time, which can be very important.
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On November 27 2014 04:41 trifecta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 03:32 Narw wrote:On November 27 2014 03:15 Velr wrote:
And thats imho a problem. If one side gets crushed.. so be it, let the game end in 10mins and don't force 5-10 more minutes of futile gameplay. In Dota games are often over in 5 mins, then they take 20+ more mins to finish that's news to me
Yeah, rarely seen something so stupid.
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On November 27 2014 00:15 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 22:34 FeyFey wrote:On November 26 2014 06:54 kongoline wrote:On November 26 2014 06:26 ssxsilver wrote:
Definitely agree but alas it's alpha and major balances usually come in beta. Double Odin is easily the most faceroll of combos though... why the fuck does it take them 6 weeks to do patch ? we have been testing the same shit for so long im tired of seeing same heroes over and over dominating everything, the fact theres so little room for outplay because laning phase doesnt exist makes it even more frustrating, atm team with better heroes almost always wins because they learned from old games where they overpatched on behalf of the community and still have to work with issues they created back then for them self. It is more likely they are encountering severe bugs in their current build, they need to take care of first though or are unhappy with how some changes turned out. In which old games did Blizzard ever overpatch?
WoL release was a giant pile of changing and "removing" units, because the community was more busy crying imba, while a-moving into 20 sieged tanks in a choke, then to think of a better idea. And Blizzard reacted so fast to new strategies that the final result was Broodlord Infestor. So I am pretty glad they learned from that and hope they don't move away from it.
Oh and WoW classic was known for having a flavor of the month class. But I didn't even consider non PvP games.
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To the cockroach bandwagon that appeared here, If you think some games in Dota 2 arent over in 5 mins, just couse sick and amazing commentators like Tobi or other HYPE guys want you to belive, do so please.
TI game, don't remember what teams, team fight in forest radiant side before creep spawn. Dire goes 5 man there, Lich skills frost nova first, grants Spectre first blood. Then proceeds to dual off that spectre against Storm + something abyssmal, BM maybe. Storm gets denied farm, 0 rotations nothing happens one team hopes for miracle or something, guess what, there wasnt one Spectre R's other team for rest of the game while commentators try to create illusion that game isnt over since 20 mins. And you think i remember this game couse it was rare to see game that is over so fast even tho score board wasnt even that bad? No, i remember it couse Furion in that game was bringing Spectre salves and clarities so she can keep farming.
Now, please, teach me some more about dota 3k brigade.
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EPT
