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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Oh and WoW classic was known for having a flavor of the month class. But I didn't even consider non PvP games. FOTM was more like flavor of the quarter or season or year, and that's just in PVP. In PvE many major class/role imbalances went on for the lengths of whole expansions. Hell I switched classes after for the first time in FIVE YEARS Warriors stopped being the undisputed best MT class (with situational exceptions). | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:03 Narw wrote: To the cockroach bandwagon that appeared here, If you think some games in Dota 2 arent over in 5 mins, just couse sick and amazing commentators like Tobi or other HYPE guys want you to belive, do so please. TI game, don't remember what team, team fight in forest radiant side before creep spawn. Dire goes 5 man there, Lich skills frost nova first, grants Spectre first blood. Then proceeds to dual off that spectre against Storm + something abyssmal, BM maybe. Storm gets denied farm, 0 rotations nothing happens one team hopes for miracle or something, guess what, there wasnt one Spectre R's other team for rest of the game while commentators try to create illusion that game isnt over since 20 mins. And you think i remember this game couse it was rare to see game that is over so fast even tho score board wasnt even that bad? No, i remember it couse Furion in that game was bringing Spectre salves and clarities so she can keep farming. Now, please, school me some more 3k brigade. So if that thing that almost never happens happens, and you fall behind, and do literally nothing, you lose? Oh. That's very insightful. | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Leavers league can't come soon enuogh: Enter game ---> 3 b AI of people who left(got dissconected) --->the other is a nova who lanes ---> the worst game i've ever played. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:12 Tephus wrote: So if that thing that almost never happens happens, and you fall behind, and do literally nothing, you lose? Oh. That's very insightful. Yeah.... shocker, right? | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
This is actually so fucking backwards in so many ways it is amazing to me, especially the closing statement about how we should tell you about potato bracket. Well when what is being discussed is how the game is to play (not spectate) then bringing up an example from the pro scene is actually totally irrelevant, even if it wasn't a terrible example that not only reflects the meta taken to an extreme at a recent point by world-class players who specialize in that style of play, but is also mitigated by the fact that 6.82 made the "you lost in the first five minutes even if the game isn't over" virtually impossible. Rarely happened before the changes, happens even less now, especially in pubs. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9396 Posts
On November 27 2014 07:54 FeyFey wrote: WoL release was a giant pile of changing and "removing" units, because the community was more busy crying imba, while a-moving into 20 sieged tanks in a choke, then to think of a better idea. And Blizzard reacted so fast to new strategies that the final result was Broodlord Infestor. So I am pretty glad they learned from that and hope they don't move away from it. Oh and WoW classic was known for having a flavor of the month class. But I didn't even consider non PvP games. lol? what exactly was changed fast? | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
beta reapers, khadarin amulet was straight removed pretty quickly after it started showing up, zerg struggles in the first gsl brought immense buffs/nerfs. Early on, WoL had very rapid reaction patches. Some maybe warranted, others maybe not, or perhaps were done in a poor way. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9396 Posts
On November 27 2014 10:14 Tephus wrote: proxy rax and bunkers, beta reapers, khadarin amulet was straight removed pretty quickly after it started showing up, zerg struggles in the first gsl brought immense buffs/nerfs. Early on, WoL had very rapid reaction patches. Some maybe warranted, others maybe not, or perhaps were done in a poor way. Kahdarin amulet was in spring 2011. If anyhting that came way too late (most imbalanced thing to ever exist in Sc2 imo). Blizzard made those changes after months of issues. I don't know how anyone can think that's fast. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On November 27 2014 10:24 Hider wrote: Kahdarin amulet was in spring 2011. If anyhting that came way too late (most imbalanced thing to ever exist in Sc2 imo). Blizzard made those changes after months of issues. I don't know how anyone can think that's fast. Kahdarin was definitely later, but it was pretty quick after showing up at all commonly in pro play. iirc the patch landed well under a month after summon into storm was starting to get used. | ||
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ETisME
12476 Posts
After all even with those so called over patching, the game did move towards a more stable metagame with the help of maps etc | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On November 27 2014 10:24 Hider wrote: Kahdarin amulet was in spring 2011. If anyhting that came way too late (most imbalanced thing to ever exist in Sc2 imo). Blizzard made those changes after months of issues. I don't know how anyone can think that's fast. this, i cant belive people actually try to pin it on overpatching | ||
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Hider
Denmark9396 Posts
Kahdarin was definitely later, but it was pretty quick after showing up at all commonly in pro play. iirc the patch landed well under a month after summon into storm was starting to get used. And what is your point? Sure in WOL they patched faster than what they do now in Sc2, but we are talking about pathing too early. Blizzard doesn't have any track record of doing that. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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rewtamus
United States327 Posts
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On November 27 2014 12:38 Hider wrote: And what is your point? Sure in WOL they patched faster than what they do now in Sc2, but we are talking about pathing too early. Blizzard doesn't have any track record of doing that. Sometimes when you patch fast, you don't know if you are patching too fast, because you aren't giving time for the meta to evolve. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9396 Posts
On November 27 2014 14:34 Tephus wrote: Sometimes when you patch fast, you don't know if you are patching too fast, because you aren't giving time for the meta to evolve. Sure, but the question was when Blizzard patched too fast, and those examples weren't examples of that. @ what Blizzard can learn from other MOBAs I think both LOL and DOTA - through different approaches - makes it possible for players to feel powerful if they play very well. This is a very important characteristica of any succesful esport or normal sport, and I believe HOTS needs more of that feeling. DOTA's charm is that you each ability feel very powerful. LOL's approach is to make counterplay practical and very rewarded against most of the abilities. HOTS kinda tries to replicate the LOL approach, but counterplay is just not anywhere near as practical nor rewarded as in LOL. This is what makes it feel that you just spam abilities every x second, instead of each ability having an interesting dynamic. The way I look at it, HOTS will probably end up doing well regardless of what happens, but it needs to do a better job of making it possible for the indiviudal to shine if it wants to really succesful. | ||
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
And we still almost won with kills being in their favour 41-14. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Right now there are obviously some balance issues but I also feel talents aren't worked out well yet. For most heroes most talents are obvious and something you decide beforehand, they could improve there with more styles and/or actually situational picks. That would make talents far more interesting, you'd care more about what they pick and it would be an interesting thing to really pick depending on how the game goes etc. For example a hero like tassadar is broken and most picks are too obvious. If you nerf those best talents like second storm and overload a bit you nerf the hero but also at the same time make the hero more interesting. Sure you could also just straight up tweak numbers for tassadar but there are good oppurtunities to solve two 'problems' at the same time here. Same thing for heroics, that needs to be a really interesting choice where both are possible. I like those of valla and illidan for example where you see both a fair share. But tassadar again has a really simple decision. Overall there are just too many talents that straight up dominate their tier and are a no-brainer. The small choices between stuff like MULE or some other talent are interesting I think especially as they can depend on the gamestate. Do I have a fort worth repairing right away when hitting level 7? That's the nudge for MULE then. Do I have a kill or 2 already? Great, i'll take gathering power. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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