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Even if her healing didn't suck, her E really needs the talent that extends the range and AoE to make an impact (her level 13 talent tier is so stacked though, Rewind is good on most heroes, being able to use her Trait on building would be huge for pushing/backdooring in tandem with someone good at that, and Shrink Ray seems pretty decent), at level 7 Trueshot Aura is pretty strong if you have a ranged assassin who isn't Nova on your team, and at level 4 Healing Ward is stronger healing, Protective Shield looks like it'd be worth more too, and I guess Searing Arrows would be decent if you wanted to go the damage route... ?
Even at level 1 improving the Trait can be good since fights last long and it lets you use it again, Seasoned Marksman for the damage route, and I assume Pierce is decent on big maps (Blackheart's Bay if you want to stop all doubloon delivery at once).
Starfall lacks impact though (maybe a stronger slow?) and Shadowstalk really requires a teamfight map and coordinated people to be useful (set up an ambush during the night on Gardens, or when you know they want to send doubloons (actually do they know when your ult reveals them? They can just wait then).
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On November 26 2014 00:39 laharl23 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2014 17:57 Velr wrote:
Yeah... Now if the abilities actually would be impactfull and somehow limited by your Manapool. But you can just spam them at lvl 1 several times (you can go oom, but it takes way more than one « rotation »)… +Dieing on lvl 1 basically means that you either ran into a ~3+ player train with heroes that can actually stun/slow you somehow or you just overextended like mad.
Chaining 3 low impact abilities, with like no drawback if it doesn’t work, is not more exciting than trying to get that one ability to hit which would assure you an important kill and costs you more than half your mana.
Thats also the reason why i think laning in Dota is much more exciting than in Lol. In Dota allmost every spell counts (for some heroes more, for some less but you basically never want to "just throw" a spell out in the earlygame). sooooo....... go play dota then? I don't go on the dota forums telling everyone why dota is worse than heroes of the storm, I just play the one I enjoy most and move on with my life. Like every other dota 2/league player should be doing in this thread, lol.
The point is not "play Dota because Dota is better than HotS" the point is there are valid arguments why both design approaches offer dynamic gameplay. If you have more spells in HotS but they do less than one spell in Dota and the surrounding circumstances are less complex, it's not clear cut that the one with more buttons offers "more outplay" opportunities than the other.
There is a reason experienced Dota players scoff at simplified suggestions of what Dota early game is like (example "hiding in the trees for three minutes" lol), because we've seen enough to know how dynamic it really is in skilled matches and how big "one spell" can be combined with all the other factors.
This is a thread discussing HotS, not just how to play it but how it is designed in both gameplay and business model. You can't just discuss this in a vacuum, or at least you shouldn't because there are well-established behemoths that HotS is going to come onto the scene competing with. It's long-acknowledged that Blizzard is going for a design philosophy that differs from League and Dota but that doesn't absolve it from comparisons. What started this conversation again was a Dota player trying the game out and expressing why he found it boring and the business model prohibitive to his continuing to play the game. You think that's not relevant?
And as for me, I was responding directly to someone trying to make a counterpoint about how no in fact Dota is boring for [reasons]. And in fact that may be the perception of a new player who tries out Dota coming from LoL or HotS. Games through the bottom tiers typically go with a 2-1-2 lane setup like 95% of the time and no one really knows how to make things happen so folks are either playing passive and scared or stupid and dying.
The laning in Dota is much more important than in HotS and also radically more dynamic. Meanwhile the objectives around the map are much more important in HotS and also more dynamic. If someone says "X is boring therefore game is boring" there's nothing wrong with saying "actually Y is the focus, that's why your experience was boring."
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Yeah, I "main" Tyrande and have to disagree with that (also Hammer seems a lot better than awful, otherwise list basically mirrors mine).
Tyrande's sustain DPS is ridiculous if you talent for it (typically 1-3 on the damage charts if you reach late game). She has an atrocious early game, since she has little lane presence and her spells make soloing merc camps very difficult, but she's a beast come late game.
Most people max on Owls with Shadowstalk to snipe heroes, but I'm having success with double owls into double flare (to quickly clear lanes and camps) with Starfall. It's not a "spammable" ult like Odin, but a well placed Starfall wins the team fight.
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So you talent rewind and the "more owl damage depending on distance" (and pierce has fights in narrow pathways like Haunted Mines and Ravenlord) for ability damage over righ-click damage?
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On November 26 2014 05:18 Alaric wrote:
So you talent rewind and the "more owl damage depending on distance" (and pierce has fights in narrow pathways like Haunted Mines and Ravenlord) for ability damage over righ-click damage?
I don't really like Rewind as it doesn't suit my play style all too much (since I spam Lunar Flare a lot after early game and getting Lunar Blaze/Shooting Star allows for very aggressive plays). Personally, I think it's the 3rd best talent in that tier after Lunar Blaze and Shrink Ray. Bear in mind that if you skip out on the Lunar Flare talents, then the skill is pretty lackluster so coupled with Light of Elune, you're basically using Rewind for the owls. That said, I can definitely see potential with a Rewind+Shadowstalk in conjunction with x3 Owls. I believe 2 owls with Ranger talent can snipe an Abathur, but overall point was that she's not that bad of a hero, just not incredibly flexible in her talent choices (forced into DPS).
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What do you call "double flare" then, using the talent that lets the owl reduce your other abilities' cooldowns to have it up faster?
Actually, does that talent work with the owl itself too?
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i seriously think if they removed top5 current picks the game would be 10x times better, right now u get 3+ of any combination from uther,tychus,tassadar,abathur congrats u have won
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On November 26 2014 06:06 Alaric wrote:
What do you call "double flare" then, using the talent that lets the owl reduce your other abilities' cooldowns to have it up faster?
Actually, does that talent work with the owl itself too?
By double flare I mean (13)Lunar Blaze and (16)Shooting Star. IIRC, Pierce and Empower stack (which is also why Rewind becomes slightly redundant). The basic DPS build is Pierce -> Empower -> Trueshot Aura (this is godly) -> whatever option you want to play. Shadowstalk and Ranger provide the bigger, safe burst while Starfall and Shooting Star sustained dps work better in big team fights around critical structures (i.e. golem, tributes, walls).
On November 26 2014 06:18 kongoline wrote:
i seriously think if they removed top5 current picks the game would be 10x times better, right now u get 3+ of any combination from uther,tychus,tassadar,abathur congrats u have won
Definitely agree but alas it's alpha and major balances usually come in beta. Double Odin is easily the most faceroll of combos though...
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Funny fact about Lili: She has shrink ray, envenom and call down mule (can get all 3) 
Still prolly the worst hero, but i had fun with this build
Just heal, forget you have damage abilities that waste mana and "1" "2" "3" ftw
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On November 26 2014 06:26 ssxsilver wrote:
Definitely agree but alas it's alpha and major balances usually come in beta. Double Odin is easily the most faceroll of combos though...
why the fuck does it take them 6 weeks to do patch ? we have been testing the same shit for so long im tired of seeing same heroes over and over dominating everything, the fact theres so little room for outplay because laning phase doesnt exist makes it even more frustrating, atm team with better heroes almost always wins
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Blizzard has always been very slow with balance patches. Thankfully, in WoW at least, those waits tend to result in somewhat creative solutions rather than just nudging numbers. But yeah six weeks is nothing.
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On November 26 2014 02:44 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 00:39 laharl23 wrote:On November 25 2014 17:57 Velr wrote:
Yeah... Now if the abilities actually would be impactfull and somehow limited by your Manapool. But you can just spam them at lvl 1 several times (you can go oom, but it takes way more than one « rotation »)… +Dieing on lvl 1 basically means that you either ran into a ~3+ player train with heroes that can actually stun/slow you somehow or you just overextended like mad.
Chaining 3 low impact abilities, with like no drawback if it doesn’t work, is not more exciting than trying to get that one ability to hit which would assure you an important kill and costs you more than half your mana.
Thats also the reason why i think laning in Dota is much more exciting than in Lol. In Dota allmost every spell counts (for some heroes more, for some less but you basically never want to "just throw" a spell out in the earlygame). sooooo....... go play dota then? I don't go on the dota forums telling everyone why dota is worse than heroes of the storm, I just play the one I enjoy most and move on with my life. Like every other dota 2/league player should be doing in this thread, lol. The point is not "play Dota because Dota is better than HotS" the point is there are valid arguments why both design approaches offer dynamic gameplay. If you have more spells in HotS but they do less than one spell in Dota and the surrounding circumstances are less complex, it's not clear cut that the one with more buttons offers "more outplay" opportunities than the other. There is a reason experienced Dota players scoff at simplified suggestions of what Dota early game is like (example "hiding in the trees for three minutes" lol), because we've seen enough to know how dynamic it really is in skilled matches and how big "one spell" can be combined with all the other factors. This is a thread discussing HotS, not just how to play it but how it is designed in both gameplay and business model. You can't just discuss this in a vacuum, or at least you shouldn't because there are well-established behemoths that HotS is going to come onto the scene competing with. It's long-acknowledged that Blizzard is going for a design philosophy that differs from League and Dota but that doesn't absolve it from comparisons. What started this conversation again was a Dota player trying the game out and expressing why he found it boring and the business model prohibitive to his continuing to play the game. You think that's not relevant? And as for me, I was responding directly to someone trying to make a counterpoint about how no in fact Dota is boring for [reasons]. And in fact that may be the perception of a new player who tries out Dota coming from LoL or HotS. Games through the bottom tiers typically go with a 2-1-2 lane setup like 95% of the time and no one really knows how to make things happen so folks are either playing passive and scared or stupid and dying. The laning in Dota is much more important than in HotS and also radically more dynamic. Meanwhile the objectives around the map are much more important in HotS and also more dynamic. If someone says "X is boring therefore game is boring" there's nothing wrong with saying "actually Y is the focus, that's why your experience was boring."
I don't think its very important to discuss it. I feel like if somebody has been playing dota 2 for years, they will refuse to try anything new and will think every other moba is a joke (same thing with league). Which is exactly why blizzard has made a moba that is completely different from the two, because they know and I know trying to get dota/league players to mass switch over to their game probably isn't going to happen (and you can see why with all the dota 2 players bitching about it over and over again in this thread). So I honestly think dota players should just stick to their game then if they don't like the way hots is designed, expecting the game to be designed just like dota 2 is a bit idiotic and I have no idea why anybody would want this, might as well just play dota 2 if that's what you want.
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expecting the game to be designed just like dota 2
No one is saying or even implying this. I think I was pretty clear with the words I actually wrote.
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So did Liquid's heroes team disband? Someone just said it did on the Town Hall podcast...
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United States42 Posts
On November 26 2014 11:55 deth2munkies wrote:
So did Liquid's heroes team disband? Someone just said it did on the Town Hall podcast...
So 3 of the members have left.
However, liquid is not done with the game
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On November 26 2014 07:18 laharl23 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 02:44 FHDH wrote:On November 26 2014 00:39 laharl23 wrote:On November 25 2014 17:57 Velr wrote:
Yeah... Now if the abilities actually would be impactfull and somehow limited by your Manapool. But you can just spam them at lvl 1 several times (you can go oom, but it takes way more than one « rotation »)… +Dieing on lvl 1 basically means that you either ran into a ~3+ player train with heroes that can actually stun/slow you somehow or you just overextended like mad.
Chaining 3 low impact abilities, with like no drawback if it doesn’t work, is not more exciting than trying to get that one ability to hit which would assure you an important kill and costs you more than half your mana.
Thats also the reason why i think laning in Dota is much more exciting than in Lol. In Dota allmost every spell counts (for some heroes more, for some less but you basically never want to "just throw" a spell out in the earlygame). sooooo....... go play dota then? I don't go on the dota forums telling everyone why dota is worse than heroes of the storm, I just play the one I enjoy most and move on with my life. Like every other dota 2/league player should be doing in this thread, lol. The point is not "play Dota because Dota is better than HotS" the point is there are valid arguments why both design approaches offer dynamic gameplay. If you have more spells in HotS but they do less than one spell in Dota and the surrounding circumstances are less complex, it's not clear cut that the one with more buttons offers "more outplay" opportunities than the other. There is a reason experienced Dota players scoff at simplified suggestions of what Dota early game is like (example "hiding in the trees for three minutes" lol), because we've seen enough to know how dynamic it really is in skilled matches and how big "one spell" can be combined with all the other factors. This is a thread discussing HotS, not just how to play it but how it is designed in both gameplay and business model. You can't just discuss this in a vacuum, or at least you shouldn't because there are well-established behemoths that HotS is going to come onto the scene competing with. It's long-acknowledged that Blizzard is going for a design philosophy that differs from League and Dota but that doesn't absolve it from comparisons. What started this conversation again was a Dota player trying the game out and expressing why he found it boring and the business model prohibitive to his continuing to play the game. You think that's not relevant? And as for me, I was responding directly to someone trying to make a counterpoint about how no in fact Dota is boring for [reasons]. And in fact that may be the perception of a new player who tries out Dota coming from LoL or HotS. Games through the bottom tiers typically go with a 2-1-2 lane setup like 95% of the time and no one really knows how to make things happen so folks are either playing passive and scared or stupid and dying. The laning in Dota is much more important than in HotS and also radically more dynamic. Meanwhile the objectives around the map are much more important in HotS and also more dynamic. If someone says "X is boring therefore game is boring" there's nothing wrong with saying "actually Y is the focus, that's why your experience was boring." I don't think its very important to discuss it. I feel like if somebody has been playing dota 2 for years, they will refuse to try anything new and will think every other moba is a joke (same thing with league). Which is exactly why blizzard has made a moba that is completely different from the two, because they know and I know trying to get dota/league players to mass switch over to their game probably isn't going to happen (and you can see why with all the dota 2 players bitching about it over and over again in this thread). So I honestly think dota players should just stick to their game then if they don't like the way hots is designed, expecting the game to be designed just like dota 2 is a bit idiotic and I have no idea why anybody would want this, might as well just play dota 2 if that's what you want.
I started this... But you really seem to have a severe deficit when it comes to reading comprehension or some knd of White Knight snydrome when it comes to Hots.
I never said Hots should be like Dota, someone said that Hots allows you to outplay your opponents from level one because you allready have 3 skills, while in Dota you hide passively in trees and just get one shot. This is so wrong on so many Levels, the person that wrote this should feel ashamed. I mean, its even wrong when you just look at Hots because at Level 1 you don't kill any Hero with any Hero 1on1. Its even comically hard to kill someone 3on1at low lvl if the guy is not severly out of Position. I played mainly Zagara, she has no escape, she isn't tanky, from what i can tell, she should be one of the easier heroes to kill, but you generally don't die if you don't overextend like mad on early levels.
I think i found my main gripe with the game. I can enjoy it for 2 maybe 3 games, after that i just feel bored. The heroes just feel pretty bland to me, I don't know, its hard to pinpoint down what exactly but it just doesn't feel right.
I think i generally just miss the "ooompf" on the spells, in other Mobas i can play the same hero over and over again and hitting that Tiny-Combo or a nice Torrent/Boat and miriads of other "1 hero" Combos with very high kill potential still feels awesome. Hots doesn't really give you much of that or you have to coordinate it between several heroes (something that in other Mobas is just as possible and Important).
I guess i'll play it from time to time for 2-3 games and look where it is going, atm i just don't see this as fun over a long time.
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When I finished the honeymoon period of the game, it starts to become boring for me. Blizzard intentionally build the game on longer fights which players throw spells on each other(5v5 scenario) and grab a few kills for extended fights.
I find forcing long fights with less effective spells without too much threat to good positioned players is boring.
Most of the games when I play wise, the xp difference is minimal(1 levels most) which makes both team equal so the only option to win the game is waiting for the objective to appear or run around to grab some mercs.
Not take this as a comparison of games but when I play Dota 2 and when the game drags long, even though there is no constant action, there is the tension in the game pushes you to the edge of the chair. Even a more similar game LOL, has similar effects on putting players on thrill.
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I think the intentional anti-snowbally mechanic is too forced....like a government bailout of some sort.
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That's really quick, I wonder what happened
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On November 26 2014 21:50 ETisME wrote:That's really quick, I wonder what happened
I think they formed a team pretty much solely for Blizzcon.
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EPT
