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Velr
Switzerland10794 Posts
Kinda hilarious, Hots is even less forgiving when it comes to this. Most problems with the ‘game’ imho come from the mapdesign… All the other stuff you can like or not (how teamfights play out and all this, which i have issues with anyway), but imho the Maps are a real problem because the objectives seem too dominating when compared to „standard“ pushes and stuff like this, there could be sooo much more dept in this by tweaking this stuff just a bit. | ||
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Arolis
United States496 Posts
It works exactly the same as cloaked units in SC2. It trips me out whenever people are wierded out by this since it was also how it worked in SC1. It's a mechanic more than 15 years old. How is this a thing that people are confused about on, of all places, Team Liquid? I'm more surprised that it wasn't a thing in other mobas or moba-likes before this. With the number of characters in a game like LoL, how has this semi-invisibility never been a thing? The mechanic is so old that it's new again. The complaint that spells are more spammable in this game and feel more low impact has been echoed by others. It means that coordination of abilities with your teammates always matters when you want to secure kills, but tends to make you feel less impactful on your own. Personally, the fights feel more like WoW Arena PvP with the current level of impact and spamminess. So even though I haven't played an Arena game in 7 years, it still feels familiar. Is this a good thing? That's up to your tastes. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On November 25 2014 00:45 Velr wrote: Most problems with the ‘game’ imho come from the mapdesign… All the other stuff you can like or not (how teamfights play out and all this, which i have issues with anyway), but imho the Maps are a real problem because the objectives seem too dominating when compared to „standard“ pushes and stuff like this, there could be sooo much more dept in this by tweaking this stuff just a bit. I think that you're going to find that there's a little more nuance here than you give HotS credit for. Pushing lanes and destroying keeps is what ultimately leads to victories. There are a lot of ways to do it, whether it be seizing objectives or playing heroes that specialize in pushing. A lot of this can be map dependent, but you absolutely can win by playing asymmetrically with an emphasis on lane pushing as opposed to always rolling as 5 to seize objectives. You'll notice this more when you play games with really good Azmodans and Abathurs (at least Abathurs that know how to push keeps). | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
I agree playing HOTS after playing DOTA2 or LoL it feels kind of underwhelming. But it's a refreshing and more relaxing game than DOTA2 or LoL (for the first 1 - 2 hours anyway, then it got pretty boring afterwards). The gameplay is fine if you are playing, but spectating is a total borefest. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On November 25 2014 01:01 ref4 wrote: I agree playing HOTS after playing DOTA2 or LoL it feels kind of underwhelming. But it's a refreshing and more relaxing game than DOTA2 or LoL (for the first 1 - 2 hours anyway, then it got pretty boring afterwards). The gameplay is fine if you are playing, but spectating is a total borefest. Honestly, I find it a lot more interesting. In large part because you start with all 3 of your basic abilities, meaning the whole level 1-5 first 10-12 minutes of the game being comparatively boring are gone. | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On November 25 2014 01:01 ref4 wrote: I agree playing HOTS after playing DOTA2 or LoL it feels kind of underwhelming. But it's a refreshing and more relaxing game than DOTA2 or LoL (for the first 1 - 2 hours anyway, then it got pretty boring afterwards). The gameplay is fine if you are playing, but spectating is a total borefest. Just from watching, I find it a lot more interesting than other mobas. Of course, I don't like nor do I know much about other mobas, so maybe it's just that its more accessible. Anyways, that's the first time I actually want to play and try out a moba, for what it's worth. If only I had a key... | ||
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rewtamus
United States327 Posts
I also picked up the new Pokemon game this week, its my 4th day with it and I havent beaten the elite4... so that's saying a lot about how much im into HotS at the moment. | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
So, Jaina (and a balance patch hopefully) before Christmas? | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://cs540103.vk.me/c625420/v625420412/9609/iAJXjRMLgUs.jpg) | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
 Edit: hero rotation (from reddit): E.T.C Li Li Nova Sonya Uther Level 12: Illidan Level 15: Azmodan | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
On November 25 2014 06:37 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Oh God...Nova, even now we got she almost like in every game... :D nothing will change then :p it will be better cause it will be noob novas :p | ||
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Hider
Denmark9405 Posts
extremly when I started using Illidan.. jump in, jump out, jump in, jump out…). I also don't understand why everyone considers Illidant to be perhaps the hardest hero in the game. Sure he is squishy, but his spells are so simple. Jump in/jump-out or continue chasing. Dragon one, the only one that actually seemed fun. I think it's interesting for two reasons: (1) It actually has a laning phase that is focussed on hero vs hero interaction (not farming). (2) The objective rewards a teambattle dynamic instead of a "force the enemy to deal with this annoying AI controlled monster so we can spend time killing some other monsters". Definitely need a lot more of maps with those characteristica in my opinion. Characters move slow The decision to make characters so slow just baffles me. I also don't understand why they chose to make the game so zoomed in while hit-boxes aren't easier to click on. Going back and fourth between watching Heroes and LOL, the latter just feels so much better to look at. But the biggest thing the game lacks is real playmaker-heroes. Heroes that - with great control - can turn the tide of the battle. It's both exciting from a player- and a viewerperspective if it's possible to outplay the opponent during an engagement and turn an unfavorable situation into a favorable situation (and yes, you can still have a very teamfocussed game where indiviudal skill matters - throughout history this has been the key to every succesful sport/esport). Zeratul is awesone in my opinion, because - mechanically speaking - there is a big difference in efficiency during an engagement between a decent Zerataul and a great Zeratul. However, as is the case with most assasins - he is still very dependant on the team being good so it can snipe off weaker opponents. I would love to see an actual mage like Syndra in LOL that has 3 skillbased abilities, and can do very well in situations where it is outnumbered + can move while casting abilities (I think that creates an interesting dynamic while it is being chased). | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 25 2014 06:40 GizmoPT wrote: nothing will change then :p it will be better cause it will be noob novas :p But who in the pool is actually good at dealing with Nova? | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 25 2014 09:24 Hider wrote: I also don't understand why everyone considers Illidant to be perhaps the hardest hero in the game. Sure he is squishy, but his spells are so simple. Jump in/jump-out or continue chasing. Illidan is REALLY hard. The reason is not his moves but when/how/why to use them. The answer to almost every mistake you can make as Illidan is "you die". Flip too early and get Maw'd? Dead. Flip too late and get hit by Divine Storm? Dead. Use your W .3 seconds too early? Dead. Basically at all times as Illidan you have to have a running tally of what each opponent can do to you and when to use your moves to avoid the most possible things. You have to non-stop be predicting things before they come, and a lot of them don't have wind-ups, you have to just KNOW that it's about to happen. With other Heroes you should and need to do it, but with Illidan it's almost absolutely everything. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9405 Posts
Illidan is REALLY hard. The reason is not his moves but when/how/why to use them. The answer to almost every mistake you can make as Illidan is "you die". Flip too early and get Maw'd? Dead. Flip too late and get hit by Divine Storm? Dead. Use your W .3 seconds too early? Dead. Yeh it all comes down to decisionmaking, but how is that different from every other hero in the game? When I lose as any type of hero, my typical response is: "That was a bad decision by me, I should not have done that", but I don't see how this is more promoted in Illidan. Is it the fact that his abilities has a low cooldown which means that you need to make decisions more freqently? And as a better comparison, what part of Illidan makes him harder to use than Zerataul? Zeratul has the same concept where you need to dive in and dive out so the timing element also exist. But unlike Illidan, there are multiple different ways to engage and he has two abilities which can be somewhat difficult to land optimally as well (his W and VP). Dodging skillshots is also a lot more practical due to blink, so as long as you can succesfully predict when the enemy will cast his ability, you should almost never get hit by an ability, which raises the skillcap by quite a lot. Perhaps, my issue with Illidan as "very hard" is that I don't consider the entrance barrier to playing the hero as something that makes it hard (only in extreme cases such as Meepo in DOTA). I rather look at the skillcap, and I when it all comes down to decisionmaking, and there are only 2-3 realistic types of decision you can make, then he will be "figured out" faster compared to heroes that have a higher mechanically skillcap/more nuances in terms of the decisions you can make. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You're also confusing skillcap and skillfloor. Lower skillfloor for Zeratul because blink is instant (and if you screw up you're not ouf of the fight because wormhole). Zeratul also bursts faster (basically walk in avoiding to eat incidental AoE, WWQ weaving 1-2 autos in, blink out) and is cloaked so he's much "safer" in a sense (although apparently Illidan takes a bunch of tanky talents?). | ||
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
On November 25 2014 02:05 deth2munkies wrote: Honestly, I find it a lot more interesting. In large part because you start with all 3 of your basic abilities, meaning the whole level 1-5 first 10-12 minutes of the game being comparatively boring are gone. Maybe if you play a heavy farming core. If you play a nice support like Wraith King, the early minutes are pretty much "who am i gonna kill next" | ||
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Hider
Denmark9405 Posts
On November 25 2014 09:51 Alaric wrote: Illidan is a squishy melee hero. That's about it, imagine playing Nova with melee range and a low cooldown (but targeted) dash. So you're good 1v1 but in a teamfight you want to engage someone on the rim or go in after they've all burnt their big cc (or while ETC is keeping them all pinned). Well I played Illidan for like 40 games - initially I enjoyed his mobility, but slowly I got tired of how simplistic he was. Now I have played roughly 80 games with Zerataul, and I am still addicted to him, as I feel that there are so many aspects of him where I can improve my skill. The only issue I have with Zeratul is that it's very difficult to do something when your team is heavily inferior to the enemy, but okay - no hero in HOTS can really do a difference here anyway. That's why I hope for a new mage with lots of skillbased abilities. | ||
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Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
hes pretty much worse than every other assassin you could play all he does well is stick to ppl for days and chase down dudes ur team basically already killed aka would have been dead if another real hero was on the team | ||
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