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On November 23 2014 16:41 ssxsilver wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked (this thread is hard to navigate), but what are the differences between Zagara's hydra and muta talents? I've been mainly double-speccing hydras as hunter killers are ridiculous burst, but someone mentioned mutas put out more damage (ran it through the test mode).
Mutas fly and have bouncing attacks. I like the 2x muta style myself, almost impossible to shake when they are on you and can fly over terrain.
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On November 23 2014 16:49 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2014 16:41 ssxsilver wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked (this thread is hard to navigate), but what are the differences between Zagara's hydra and muta talents? I've been mainly double-speccing hydras as hunter killers are ridiculous burst, but someone mentioned mutas put out more damage (ran it through the test mode). Mutas fly and have bouncing attacks. I like the 2x muta style myself, almost impossible to shake when they are on you and can fly over terrain.
Would you ever rec Spell Shield vs Nova (in ~3500 pubs)? So far I'm liking her, but games vs Novas I probably double my death count (I'm diligent with creep spread but no escape/stun is tough, especially if I'm saving the ulti for a more important counter). Can't decide if that safety net is worth losing out on the damage options.
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So guys, I'm trying to get inot this whole HoTS thing but I can't seem to find a good website / stream / youtube channel with HotS info.
I would love a site with just basic tutorials on most heroes. Do you guys know any?
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On November 23 2014 18:39 Amestir wrote:
So guys, I'm trying to get inot this whole HoTS thing but I can't seem to find a good website / stream / youtube channel with HotS info.
I would love a site with just basic tutorials on most heroes. Do you guys know any?
I just use HeroesFire to check for builds suiting my play style that are flushed out. It's a pretty easy game to pick up so you don't really have to do a ton of prep before jumping in. Of course if you have any specific questions you can always post here. Diamond is really high up there on MMR AFAIK.
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Dont you have to constantly upload your replays to get accurate MMR for that site? im too lazy for all that.
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Just you the hotslogs tool. It does it for you after every game
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On November 23 2014 17:32 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2014 16:49 Diamond wrote:On November 23 2014 16:41 ssxsilver wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked (this thread is hard to navigate), but what are the differences between Zagara's hydra and muta talents? I've been mainly double-speccing hydras as hunter killers are ridiculous burst, but someone mentioned mutas put out more damage (ran it through the test mode). Mutas fly and have bouncing attacks. I like the 2x muta style myself, almost impossible to shake when they are on you and can fly over terrain. Would you ever rec Spell Shield vs Nova (in ~3500 pubs)? So far I'm liking her, but games vs Novas I probably double my death count (I'm diligent with creep spread but no escape/stun is tough, especially if I'm saving the ulti for a more important counter). Can't decide if that safety net is worth losing out on the damage options.
Yea it's probably not a bad move, Zagara is just pretty bad vs Nova being so immobile + squishy. Rapid Incubation too ofc, but Nova is just plain good vs Zag.
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United States42 Posts
On November 23 2014 17:32 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2014 16:49 Diamond wrote:On November 23 2014 16:41 ssxsilver wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked (this thread is hard to navigate), but what are the differences between Zagara's hydra and muta talents? I've been mainly double-speccing hydras as hunter killers are ridiculous burst, but someone mentioned mutas put out more damage (ran it through the test mode). Mutas fly and have bouncing attacks. I like the 2x muta style myself, almost impossible to shake when they are on you and can fly over terrain. Would you ever rec Spell Shield vs Nova (in ~3500 pubs)? So far I'm liking her, but games vs Novas I probably double my death count (I'm diligent with creep spread but no escape/stun is tough, especially if I'm saving the ulti for a more important counter). Can't decide if that safety net is worth losing out on the damage options.
At this current point in time I would recommend taking spell shield on almost any hero when faced against a nova. Since when spell shield triggers, i.e. the first ability used against you, it will reduce that damage. So if you are hit with a snipe first, you still take half damage.
However, in a couple months from now, people will start to play around spell shield a little more, and learn how to pop it before a nova wants to use hero combo. Sort of how banshee's veil is in LoL, where people try to trigger it using a an unimportant skill and then punish you while it's down.
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United States42 Posts
On November 24 2014 11:03 NB wrote:
Dont you have to constantly upload your replays to get accurate MMR for that site? im too lazy for all that.
In order to get an accurate representation of your MMR, then yes you have to upload every replay. That being said, you can still get a decent reading (within a league or two) without doing it yourself. I haven't uploaded a single replay post wipe, and yet 80+% of my games are on there.
As for the lazy part, the owner of the site did release a program that will upload replays automatically for you. However, since I did not write the code, nor have I seen the source code, I can't be 100% of what all the program is doing.
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United States42 Posts
On November 23 2014 08:03 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Any news when Blizz is going to update new maps and heroes?
I don't have any sources on it, but I believe Blizzard said somewhere that jaina is in the next patch, and that thrall will be released before beta (or maybe it was on beta). And that lost vikings is still a ways off. As for the new map, Sky Temple, I would imagine it's more likely to be in the thrall patch rather than the jaina patch.
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United States42 Posts
On November 22 2014 21:16 Alaric wrote:
Can Anub'Arak's first ult keep Zeratul/Nova visible if you can stay close enough that they'll be constantly attacked?
I believe you have to have them visible first, and then you should be able to keep them visible for the duration of the ultimate. I am not 100% sure since damage of time (i.e. envenom) or even stitches trait (vile gas) does not reveal/keep revealed stealthers, nor do those skills dismount iirc.
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On November 24 2014 17:03 iakona13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 21:16 Alaric wrote:
Can Anub'Arak's first ult keep Zeratul/Nova visible if you can stay close enough that they'll be constantly attacked? I believe you have to have them visible first, and then you should be able to keep them visible for the duration of the ultimate. I am not 100% sure since damage of time (i.e. envenom) or even stitches trait (vile gas) does not reveal/keep revealed stealthers, nor do those skills dismount iirc.
They 100% have to visible 1st. Once it's on them however, it keeps them from re-entering.
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Last week I accidentally realised that i have an invite for this… For how long? No Clue, haven’t checked my Bnet acc in years.
Well… On Saturday i felt bored enough so i played it for like 4-5 hours, I played Zagara, Falstad and Illidan, all to like lvl 5-6, here is my short review:
Graphics/Presentation:
Graphics and animations in general are fine. Nothing special but good enough for sure.
I really liked some of the sound effects/voices (Illidan), but other heroes seemed not as ‘developed’ in comparison and some of the map specific announcers got on my nerves immediatly (Garden, Pirate...). Well, its alpha.
F2P System?
Batshit insane Prices… I can’t imagine the amount of grind you have to do later… The first 10-20k Gold are probably ok due to player level increasing steadily and the gold rewards coming with it... But after that? Ridiculous. I don’t remember this being that bad in Lol, buying old/cheap champs was and probably is actually not expensive at all. This would be ok, if heroes would be really cheap with „real money“ i could kinda understand that, but they aren’t.
Having to level up each Char to lvl 5(?) to actually get all his skills is one of the dumbest things imaginable. Imagine playing SC2 and only getting access to half your races units after you played them 4-5 times, maybe more if you lose (now imagine this with 30++++ playable races)…
Gameplay?
The game starts and you run around as 5 and try to get some kill, then split to lanes to soak a bit XP until the objectives activate, then you run as 5 for the Objectives. Thats it.
Creeps only exist so Towers have something to shoot at, they could also just give out XP over time and not bother with having creep XP at all, its not like laning in this game is interesting in any way or form anyway. Imho maps with 2-3 objective that you have to capture at the same time would be more interesting, but the only map (i played) that seemed to enforce this, was the Dragon one, the only one that actually seemed fun.
Everything feels slow. Characters move slow, DMG (with some exceptions for Zeratul and Nova) is generally dealt slow. Teamfights seem to be about chasing… alltogether 90% of the player interaction in this game is chasing each other and you can’t even dive towers (WHY!?)… The more Tanky heroes there are in a game, the worse it gets.
Btw: Having heroes with stealth in a game whiteout stealth detection seems very, very strange to me. These heroes also having the most burst also seems pretty strange… But ok, haven’t played nearly enough to judge this.
I’ll most likely never start this again. After the 5 hours i was allready really, really bored. If i would want to play some „true“ battle arena i’ll go with Bloodlines, all else Dota and Lol are just plain better. Whiteout the Blizzard tag no one would care about this game, at least not more than people did/do care for Bloodline, Smite or whatever other „small“ Mobas there are.
Btw2: Illidan felt sooo bad :p. Falstad felt cool but has bad looks/model. Zangara i am not sure about, the creep mechanic seems to hurt more than help?
But I could be totally wrong here.
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On November 24 2014 18:49 Velr wrote:
Last week I accidentally realised that i have an invite for this… For how long? No Clue, haven’t checked my Bnet acc in years.
Well… On Saturday i felt bored enough so i played it for like 4-5 hours, I played Zagara, Falstad and Illidan, all to like lvl 5-6, here is my short review:
Graphics/Presentation:
Graphics and animations in general are fine. Nothing special but good enough for sure.
I really liked some of the sound effects/voices (Illidan), but other heroes seemed not as ‘developed’ in comparison and some of the map specific announcers got on my nerves immediatly (Garden, Pirate...). Well, its alpha.
F2P System?
Batshit insane Prices… I can’t imagine the amount of grind you have to do later… The first 10-20k Gold are probably ok due to player level increasing steadily and the gold rewards coming with it... But after that? Ridiculous. I don’t remember this being that bad in Lol, buying old/cheap champs was and probably is actually not expensive at all. This would be ok, if heroes would be really cheap with „real money“ i could kinda understand that, but they aren’t.
Having to level up each Char to lvl 5(?) to actually get all his skills is one of the dumbest things imaginable. Imagine playing SC2 and only getting access to half your races units after you played them 4-5 times, maybe more if you lose (now imagine this with 30++++ playable races)…
Gameplay?
The game starts and you run around as 5 and try to get some kill, then split to lanes to soak a bit XP until the objectives activate, then you run as 5 for the Objectives. Thats it.
Creeps only exist so Towers have something to shoot at, they could also just give out XP over time and not bother with having creep XP at all, its not like laning in this game is interesting in any way or form anyway. Imho maps with 2-3 objective that you have to capture at the same time would be more interesting, but the only map (i played) that seemed to enforce this, was the Dragon one, the only one that actually seemed fun.
Everything feels slow. Characters move slow, DMG (with some exceptions for Zeratul and Nova) is generally dealt slow. Teamfights seem to be about chasing… alltogether 90% of the player interaction in this game is chasing each other and you can’t even dive towers (WHY!?)… The more Tanky heroes there are in a game, the worse it gets.
Btw: Having heroes with stealth in a game whiteout stealth detection seems very, very strange to me. These heroes also having the most burst also seems pretty strange… But ok, haven’t played nearly enough to judge this.
I’ll most likely never start this again. After the 5 hours i was allready really, really bored. If i would want to play some „true“ battle arena i’ll go with Bloodlines, all else Dota and Lol are just plain better. Whiteout the Blizzard tag no one would care about this game, at least not more than people did/do care for Bloodline, Smite or whatever other „small“ Mobas there are.
Btw2: Illidan felt sooo bad :p. Falstad felt cool but has bad looks/model. Zangara i am not sure about, the creep mechanic seems to hurt more than help?
But I could be totally wrong here.
Seems to me you didn't give the game a good enough try, or didn't have much of an open mind going into it. You really can't compare it to other MOBAs, there are just too many differences. Now maybe you didn't enjoy it at all and that's fair, but I'm just saying you shouldn't go into a game of HotS expecting some variant of LoL.
About the rest of your post...
I completely agree about the prices. The general consensus is that the heroes are far too expensive, and I do hope they get a bit more realistic about that in the future. Either reduce the prices, or drastically increase gold gain in-game. The best solution would probably be a middle ground between those two options.
Laning does matter. It just doesn't take the same shape as Dota or LoL because lanes are flexible, but it's quite crucial that you keep at least one hero in all lanes at all times before level 10. This differentiates average players from good players, in my opinion. Not having at least one hero per lane results in such a dramatic loss of experience that it often leads to a defeat. Also, yeah, most heroes move slowly without their mounts, but somehow I never felt the combat itself was slow. It's often a lot of back and forth, and it feels fast-paced and just fine to me. It's important to always be mounted whenever you're off combat though, or elsewise you will indeed feel like you're essentially a snail.
You absolutely can tower dive. Just not with every hero. Chen and Illidan are perfectly capable of tower diving due to their Q allowing them to move over buildings like they're not even an obstacle. A different kind of tower diving can also be used with invisible heroes, because the towers don't reveal invisible units. So as Zeratul and Nova, you can just walk in the enemy's base and, for example, kill Abathur and walk out again, should no one catch you.
Speaking of Zeratul and Nova, there is detection in the game. Tassadar's unique skill allows him to reveal a large area around himself, and also reveals cloaked units. Several heroes have access to the talent Clairvoyance, which reveals a large area anywhere on the map and also reveals cloaked/invisible units.
Lastly, it's also important to remember that there is a distinction to be made between cloak and invisibility. There is so far but one pure form of invisibility in the game, and it comes from Tassadar's E (even that can be revealed). Zeratul and Nova are not invisible per se, they are cloaked. Meaning they are "invisible" in the same way that Observers and Dark Templars are invisible in SC2: they have a distortion around themselves which allows them to be seen by a careful watcher. Any damage also breaks invisibility, so all you have to do to counter Nova or Zeratul is pay attention to the map around you, and throw an aoe at any distortion you see. Now, this is easier said than done, but most maps actually permit you to do it quickly once you get used to it and know what to look for. The hardest map to do this on is by far Garden of Terror, and that's because there is a night time there.
All in all, I think you should give the game a more thorough try with a different mindset. Try going into it without your prior MOBA experience in mind. Treat it as a brand new genre, and you might have a different opinion. I personally really like Blizzard's take on said genre, as their design choices lead to action-packed games and a whole lot of fun. Of course HotS is not without its flaws, but I think it's a great game with lots of potential.
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I dunno, during fights I keep seeing a Nova run away, cloak, we see the distortion, then after a second or two there's no distortion anymore and it's impossible to follow her waiting for a cooldown to pop her cloak.
I remember seeing the blur next to me before she pops me in 3 hits though, so maybe it's more of a distance thing and after awhile even if she's still in vision range she's too far for "blur range".
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On November 24 2014 18:49 Velr wrote:
Last week I accidentally realised that i have an invite for this… For how long? No Clue, haven’t checked my Bnet acc in years.
Well… On Saturday i felt bored enough so i played it for like 4-5 hours, I played Zagara, Falstad and Illidan, all to like lvl 5-6, here is my short review:
Graphics/Presentation:
Graphics and animations in general are fine. Nothing special but good enough for sure.
I really liked some of the sound effects/voices (Illidan), but other heroes seemed not as ‘developed’ in comparison and some of the map specific announcers got on my nerves immediatly (Garden, Pirate...). Well, its alpha.
F2P System?
Batshit insane Prices… I can’t imagine the amount of grind you have to do later… The first 10-20k Gold are probably ok due to player level increasing steadily and the gold rewards coming with it... But after that? Ridiculous. I don’t remember this being that bad in Lol, buying old/cheap champs was and probably is actually not expensive at all. This would be ok, if heroes would be really cheap with „real money“ i could kinda understand that, but they aren’t.
Having to level up each Char to lvl 5(?) to actually get all his skills is one of the dumbest things imaginable. Imagine playing SC2 and only getting access to half your races units after you played them 4-5 times, maybe more if you lose (now imagine this with 30++++ playable races)…
Gameplay?
The game starts and you run around as 5 and try to get some kill, then split to lanes to soak a bit XP until the objectives activate, then you run as 5 for the Objectives. Thats it.
Creeps only exist so Towers have something to shoot at, they could also just give out XP over time and not bother with having creep XP at all, its not like laning in this game is interesting in any way or form anyway. Imho maps with 2-3 objective that you have to capture at the same time would be more interesting, but the only map (i played) that seemed to enforce this, was the Dragon one, the only one that actually seemed fun.
Everything feels slow. Characters move slow, DMG (with some exceptions for Zeratul and Nova) is generally dealt slow. Teamfights seem to be about chasing… alltogether 90% of the player interaction in this game is chasing each other and you can’t even dive towers (WHY!?)… The more Tanky heroes there are in a game, the worse it gets.
Btw: Having heroes with stealth in a game whiteout stealth detection seems very, very strange to me. These heroes also having the most burst also seems pretty strange… But ok, haven’t played nearly enough to judge this.
I’ll most likely never start this again. After the 5 hours i was allready really, really bored. If i would want to play some „true“ battle arena i’ll go with Bloodlines, all else Dota and Lol are just plain better. Whiteout the Blizzard tag no one would care about this game, at least not more than people did/do care for Bloodline, Smite or whatever other „small“ Mobas there are.
Btw2: Illidan felt sooo bad :p. Falstad felt cool but has bad looks/model. Zangara i am not sure about, the creep mechanic seems to hurt more than help?
But I could be totally wrong here.
Hello i've about 400 games done, and keep in mind people have different tastes, that said..
actually its level 4 to unlock the talents.. and if you playing with friends it takes you 3 games for it :\ its not really a problem... gold prices ye.. i think they high too.
actually going for the kill at start is useless.. but yes game encourages teamfights.. damage is slow ? i think its fine some chars die really fast. speed seems fine for me. btw: you can actually see the stealthed heroes, i mean if you used to check for observers in sc2 its pretty ez here. just shoot something at them to reveal.
i've played 5 days worth of games and i love it. cause they removed everything i hated in other mobas, and added the battlegrounds that are cool.
I played 1 game of original Dota and also 1 of Dota 2 and never touched it again.. and just about 10 games of LoL just cause all my friend playedd it but i think it sucks.
You are not wrong, you are not right.. it's your opinion and its fine :p
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I actually went in with a bad mindset. Then i had some more fun than expected and it went up, but it went down quickly again. The games just felt very repetitive and realising how much Gold you need to get another Hero and how little you get outside of player level bonusses really put me off.
Judging if you would win a game, was also really easy… „which team has more heroes that are not in the rotation  “. But i guess that wouldn’t be a long lasting issue.
Stealth… Yeah, you see the Cloak effect, but not allways? It seemed strange to me.
My gripe about Teamfights is exactly that they are so „back and forth“:
One team charges in and tries to get a hero using their spells… If they don’t suceed everyone turns tail (or tries to) and its the other teams turn aaaaand repeat. It just felt way more like chasing each other than actual fighting (and that feeling increased extremly when I started using Illidan.. jump in, jump out, jump in, jump out…).
Well… i’ll probably give it another go sooner or later, i think the game would drastically improve if objectives would get weakened a bit (they should still stay very relevant) and somehow „normal“ spells would have more impact/oooompf in general. Many skills just feel very „meh, lets throw it out, who cares“.
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Remember it's alpha, and remember this is not dota/lol. After having like 3k dota games i actually find it refreshing to play 20 mins match where i can pick support and not be useless after half match. Different game, more casual for sure, but that dosn't exactly mean its worse or less fun. Just different.
There are some obvious bullshit heroes in the pool currently (hey Nova, hey Abathur) but hopefully this will be solved in the near future.
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On November 24 2014 21:47 Velr wrote:I actually went in with a bad mindset. Then i had some more fun than expected and it went up, but it went down quickly again. The games just felt very repetitive and realising how much Gold you need to get another Hero and how little you get outside of player level bonusses really put me off. Judging if you would win a game, was also really easy… „which team has more heroes that are not in the rotation “. But i guess that wouldn’t be a long lasting issue. Stealth… Yeah, you see the Cloak effect, but not allways? It seemed strange to me. My gripe about Teamfights is exactly that they are so „back and forth“: One team charges in and tries to get a hero using their spells… If they don’t suceed everyone turns tail (or tries to) and its the other teams turn aaaaand repeat. It just felt way more like chasing each other than actual fighting (and that feeling increased extremly when I started using Illidan.. jump in, jump out, jump in, jump out…). Well… i’ll probably give it another go sooner or later, i think the game would drastically improve if objectives would get weakened a bit (they should still stay very relevant) and somehow „normal“ spells would have more impact/oooompf in general. Many skills just feel very „meh, lets throw it out, who cares“.
About the invisible heroes, yes, you can always see the distortion. It may depend on your graphics though. I remember reading somewhere in the BNet forum that people sometimes struggled to see the distortion on low graphics. I have everything on ultra and I rarely miss them. The real challenge is being able to discern that while a lot of action is going on, as it does require some focus, or as the case may be, during night time on Garden of Terror. Spotting it while Nova/Zeratul is in a bush and you're not shouldn't be possible, but you should be able to see it if you step into the bush yourself and they move.
Anyway. Honestly, the game reaches a whole other level when you play as 5. It really was designed with that in mind, and while it sucks to say such a thing: it is terrible to play alone. Far more so than Dota or LoL, because you can rarely carry by yourself.
It's all about coordination and teamplay. If you have some friends or find people to hit up (try the TL player list above, the reddit channel in the game or the TL channel perhaps), you'll have a blast.
It could not be for you though, who knows. Just sharing my own experience here.
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I really like the game as well but have issues putting in more than maybe 1.5 -2 hours at a time. Though as I get older I find it harder to sit down and just play a game for hours on end. Unless it is like a new single player game and I'm just blazing through it.
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EPT
