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On November 16 2014 11:32 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 11:20 Alaric wrote:
I still find it less frustrating than RNG Ravenlord or the Dragonknight one (pet peeve with how more one-sided it is than other map in a "2 people are coordinated on a team and aren't on the other", and how effective stealth is on it). Dragonshire is the best balanced and IMO most fun map.
Na, still as stomp-oriented as mines, with the difference that pubs understand mines' objective better so you get more "real" games there. Dragon is just waiting to have people with no idea how it works ruin the whole thing. I've been having to lane Muradin vs stuff like ranged assassin+brightwing, double ranged assassin, nova+zeratul, etc. and the team still doesn't either push the other lane super hard or get the sanctuary then rotate to help me. It's miserable and I don't have a choice because if I don't stall the enemy team gets free dragon.
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On November 16 2014 13:54 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 11:32 deth2munkies wrote:On November 16 2014 11:20 Alaric wrote:
I still find it less frustrating than RNG Ravenlord or the Dragonknight one (pet peeve with how more one-sided it is than other map in a "2 people are coordinated on a team and aren't on the other", and how effective stealth is on it). Dragonshire is the best balanced and IMO most fun map. Na, still as stomp-oriented as mines, with the difference that pubs understand mines' objective better so you get more "real" games there. Dragon is just waiting to have people with no idea how it works ruin the whole thing. I've been having to lane Muradin vs stuff like ranged assassin+brightwing, double ranged assassin, nova+zeratul, etc. and the team still doesn't either push the other lane super hard or get the sanctuary then rotate to help me. It's miserable and I don't have a choice because if I don't stall the enemy team gets free dragon.
I've almost never had a stomp on Dragonshire. Normally goes back and forth with shrines exchanging control till one side wins and eventually takes it. It also gives an actual point to people laning so noobs understand it better. People just don't get mines at all because they fight in the wrong places and are never in position to take them when the time is up. Additionally, the golems are a LOT more swingy than Dragon Knight, who can do absolutely nothing sometimes.
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Mines is the biggest stomp map. None of the others are even close. If I had to pick a second, it would probably be Raven map.
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On November 16 2014 14:52 xDaunt wrote:
Mines is the biggest stomp map. None of the others are even close. If I had to pick a second, it would probably be Raven map.
agree about mines being the biggest stomp map, god i hate it
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On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played?
On November 16 2014 12:52 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played? Not much in this cosmos; everything non-cosmetic can be grinded for and jumping in with a hero gives you no disadvantage after the first few games (where a few options are disabled; money does not affect this). But I hear things are different in a parallel universe.
Nope. Virtually everyone has already agreed with me that there is an advantage to buying more heroes with real money. E.g. see all the replies on page 3 and 4 of thread.
They just use the weasel (and incorrect) argument that having more heroes does give you an advantage, but it is so small and outweighed by skill, that it doesn't matter. An argument that I've addressed in Counter to Argument 3.
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On November 16 2014 14:55 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 14:52 xDaunt wrote:
Mines is the biggest stomp map. None of the others are even close. If I had to pick a second, it would probably be Raven map. agree about mines being the biggest stomp map, god i hate it
Mines is in fact the biggest stomp map and it's not unusual for games to end in 10 minutes by the 2nd golem. But so what?
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On November 16 2014 20:28 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played? Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 12:52 Yoav wrote:On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played? Not much in this cosmos; everything non-cosmetic can be grinded for and jumping in with a hero gives you no disadvantage after the first few games (where a few options are disabled; money does not affect this). But I hear things are different in a parallel universe. Nope. Virtually everyone has already agreed with me that there is an advantage to buying more heroes with real money. E.g. see all the replies on page 3 and 4 of thread. They just use the weasel (and incorrect) argument that having more heroes does give you an advantage, but it is so small and outweighed by skill, that it doesn't matter. An argument that I've addressed in Counter to Argument 3.
Jesus, this guys is so resilient ... you will never be able to pay2win your way to the top in this game. You will maybe have an arbitrary advantage if you invested money and/or time.
If HOTS turns out well I will gladly spend a couple of moneys on the game as I did with HoN and Smite.
On November 16 2014 11:05 NB wrote:
the haunted mine is such an one sided map... It reminded me of steppes of war in sc2.
Feelin you bro.
Haunted Mines 26 games played 00:19:43 average length 30.8 % winrate.
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On November 16 2014 20:38 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 20:28 paralleluniverse wrote:On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played? On November 16 2014 12:52 Yoav wrote:On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played? Not much in this cosmos; everything non-cosmetic can be grinded for and jumping in with a hero gives you no disadvantage after the first few games (where a few options are disabled; money does not affect this). But I hear things are different in a parallel universe. Nope. Virtually everyone has already agreed with me that there is an advantage to buying more heroes with real money. E.g. see all the replies on page 3 and 4 of thread. They just use the weasel (and incorrect) argument that having more heroes does give you an advantage, but it is so small and outweighed by skill, that it doesn't matter. An argument that I've addressed in Counter to Argument 3. Jesus, this guys is so resilient ... you will never be able to pay2win your way to the top in this game. You will maybe have an arbitrary advantage if you invested money and/or time. If HOTS turns out well I will gladly spend a couple of moneys on the game as I did with HoN and Smite. Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 11:05 NB wrote:
the haunted mine is such an one sided map... It reminded me of steppes of war in sc2. Feelin you bro. Haunted Mines 26 games played 00:19:43 average length 30.8 % winrate.
ive nothing against it bros...
Haunted Mines 45 games played 00:18:20 average length 68.9 % winrate. :p
anyway all my other map average length is around 20-22 minutes not that much difference. im my winrate on dragon shire is similar so i think those stats dont tell much....
even yesterday one team was owning us on Haunted mines allways getting their Gollem stronger than ours until they tried to finish us but we killed them got in mines got a 75 skull gollem and won the game. So you can still comeback anyway. But if the other team plays better the entire game ye you gonna lose.. thats how games work :p
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On November 16 2014 20:49 GizmoPT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2014 20:38 bluQ wrote:On November 16 2014 20:28 paralleluniverse wrote:On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played? On November 16 2014 12:52 Yoav wrote:On November 16 2014 12:26 CursedRich wrote:
how much pay to win is involved I've never played? Not much in this cosmos; everything non-cosmetic can be grinded for and jumping in with a hero gives you no disadvantage after the first few games (where a few options are disabled; money does not affect this). But I hear things are different in a parallel universe. Nope. Virtually everyone has already agreed with me that there is an advantage to buying more heroes with real money. E.g. see all the replies on page 3 and 4 of thread. They just use the weasel (and incorrect) argument that having more heroes does give you an advantage, but it is so small and outweighed by skill, that it doesn't matter. An argument that I've addressed in Counter to Argument 3. Jesus, this guys is so resilient ... you will never be able to pay2win your way to the top in this game. You will maybe have an arbitrary advantage if you invested money and/or time. If HOTS turns out well I will gladly spend a couple of moneys on the game as I did with HoN and Smite. On November 16 2014 11:05 NB wrote:
the haunted mine is such an one sided map... It reminded me of steppes of war in sc2. Feelin you bro. Haunted Mines 26 games played 00:19:43 average length 30.8 % winrate. ive nothing against it bros... Haunted Mines 45 games played 00:18:20 average length 68.9 % winrate. :p anyway all my other map average length is around 20-22 minutes not that much difference. im my winrate on dragon shire is similar so i think those stats dont tell much.... even yesterday one team was owning us on Haunted mines allways getting their Gollem stronger than ours until they tried to finish us but we killed them got in mines got a 75 skull gollem and won the game. So you can still comeback anyway. But if the other team plays better the entire game ye you gonna lose.. thats how games work :p
At a certain point Haunted just snowballs way too hard, if the team who is allready in lead has their golem at your core it feels pretty unwinable and mapcontrol is freakin hard on that map when you are allready behind.
I personally can imagine it be fun with premades but for publics it is so awful ^^
Enjoying Garden of Terror(46%) and DragonShrine(70%) the most 
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I dont know how you people are able to enjoy dragonshrine with pubs :O. Whenever i play it a teammate of mine takes the Dragon, but plays him so horribly LITTERALY ALWAYS using his W on highly damaged opponents, saving them instead of kicking away those with full life. Very often it is even like: We just got the dragon and are on way to push a lane. Some noob opponent comes in alone and we easily take him down until ~20% of his life when the Dragon Ws him somewhere into the jungle where no one could find him and he can back. This is very often frustrating.
That beeing said this is my first serious HoTS post after finally getting some access and playing the game a lot the past week, so:
I generally really like the game and its tons of fun. While i see where the disscussion about skillshots and being able to make "plays" comes from, i would suggest to just wait and see because the game is still in Alpha and yet i feel there is defenetly enough potential to allow individual skill cap. A lot of things haven't been figured out yet and a freakin tons of heroes is yet to come.
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Mines is my favorite map actually, I like how it has just 2 lanes and how the objective is quite straightforward and important.
I like how the skull phase rewards slightly splitting up and how the games go quite quickly if it's onesided. If you dominate you can win on the first golem. If it's close however golem goes 50-50 very often and skull collecting phase lasts much longer.
Dragon knight is a good map too, again I like if the objective rewards some splitting up. The use of the knight is fun too and while it's often done terrible in pubs makes for good games. Seems to last longest this map but very close as you can lose plenty of knights early which aren't as important yet and can win near instantly with a late teamkill into knight.
Garden of terror is good too, a little too teamfight oriented maybe and i dislike slightly how creeps are disabled so much. Situations with both having a terror are interesting though.
Curse is a bit boring I think, the objective is least important I think as it happens most that getting it, which is hardest of any map basically, does quite little. If you had 4 die and grab the 3rd curse and they revive earlier and just kill your creeps the curse does little. So you kill lane minions and their defenses are down but it happens often enough you can't even push at that time or it does little. The random appearance of the curse can be slightly frustating too, having it appear closer to your team can be huge, especially with heroes like gazlowe and zagara.
Blackheart bay is worst I think, the objective isn't a lot of fun because it let's you win the game from the middle of the map too often. Pushing the frontline forts is ok to save cannonballs for better objectives but for the rest I feel constantly that it's hardly worth pushing but you might as well fall back and take more creeps for next cannoning. With the other objectives you use them to help pushing (golem excepted sometimes) but here it can just feel like first to get objectives 5/6 times wins.
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Does anyone else have same "problem" that some games show up on HOTSlog and even as won and everything but dont give MMR+/- ? ( https://www.hotslogs.com/Player/MatchHistory?PlayerID=485976 )
And those were not AI games
edit: I guess was just some cross-uploading hickup ... or not. Even after update still not showing mmr changes.
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On November 16 2014 20:28 paralleluniverse wrote:An argument that I've addressed in Counter to Argument 3.
Shut the actual hell up with your "I debunked this in counter argument #X". Just because your typed something does not make it right, so plz stop. No one gives a shit about your Pay 2 Win theories. Some MIGHT if you didn't come off so silly and crazy about the whole thing, while using stupid examples like PED's in physical sports (stop this one, it's just embarrassing) and using a stupid amount of hyperbole on everything.
On November 16 2014 21:48 Tigi wrote:
I dont know how you people are able to enjoy dragonshrine with pubs :O. Whenever i play it a teammate of mine takes the Dragon, but plays him so horribly LITTERALY ALWAYS using his W on highly damaged opponents, saving them instead of kicking away those with full life. Very often it is even like: We just got the dragon and are on way to push a lane. Some noob opponent comes in alone and we easily take him down until ~20% of his life when the Dragon Ws him somewhere into the jungle where no one could find him and he can back. This is very often frustrating.
I always try to grab the DK or Plant Terror myself if I can to get the most use out of it. In all fairness over time people will learn how to use them. It's still a pretty new game so there is a lot of people that simply don't know stuff.
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I'm surprised a lot of you guys like Blackheart bay the least.
Nothing against the other 4 maps, but they're a nightmare if you end up with uncooperative teammate. The mines, in particular, are hilarious if you've lucked into a good pub team (6 minute nexus caps!).
Blackheart bay is pretty refreshing in that the objective can technically be completed by one person.
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Usually somebody will show up if you try to give doubloons by yourself, and you have to get them and not die (eg. if you're playing Gazlow good luck giving doubloons and surviving if they show up to take your lunch money). Also, because the map is so big it can be a real clusterfuck depending on what people do. Until pretty late in the game (eg. when you can threaten the golem) it's also not worth it to show up top at all even to soak up some experience because there's so little money and it's so far from both the mercs and Blackheart.
And if you try to get some doubloons but the team isn't coordinated it's easy to lose them (dying is more punishing if you're holding doubloons and the map is huge so stuff like Nova is more potent), or simply to never do them because people want to push and kill, despite paying BlackHeart and hogging the camps being much more efficient in terms of structure damage.
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Funny how Blizzard wants to prevent the whole snowball effect by removing individual experience, gold/items and implement a rubber band group exp effect but the very nature of the maps themselves are snowbally as fuck, not to mention to keep game length short they have to implement their own style of snowball effect via in-game objectives. All in all the game itself is a bunch of conflicting design philosophies and contradictions.
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I think the general idea was to have the snowballing be as a coordinated team over individual snowballing, which I do think they have been successful at.
Mines I agree is WAY to snowbally, it's a really frustrating map to play for me, even when winning. Every game no matter if I am winning or losing I always get the feeling "this map is just silly".
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Removing individual ability, creating homogeneous power curves, and forcing teams to constaly engage in heads up teamfights in which the QWER of a team a level higher will almost always win actually makes the game significantly more snowbally.
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On November 17 2014 03:46 Kupon3ss wrote:
Removing individual ability, creating homogeneous power curves, and forcing teams to constaly engage in heads up teamfights in which the QWER of a team a level higher will almost always win actually makes the game significantly more snowbally.
Generalizations over generalizations...
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On November 17 2014 03:46 Kupon3ss wrote:
Removing individual ability, creating homogeneous power curves, and forcing teams to constaly engage in heads up teamfights in which the QWER of a team a level higher will almost always win actually makes the game significantly more snowbally.
I really don't think thats accurate. Normally the only two times in a game you can't win a fight are:
1: Lvl 10 vs Lvl 9 or below. Ults are good
2: Lvl 20 vs Lvl 19 or below. Never fight this, lvl 20 talents are godly.
To be honest aside for those talent breakpoints almost any fight is winnable in this game. Teamfighting can be amazingly deep too, and there is PLENTY of room for error or good plays.
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EPT
