Just for example. The thing is, in LoL, a late game teamfight is "whose ADC gets zoned/dead" because ADCs can 2 shot people late in the game. Early game is dominated by mages and CC. In HotS, CC is lighter, damage is lower, and health pools are higher. That means more protracted battles and more chances to catch the other team out.
Yeh, but why can't you combine longer teambattles with more ability to counterplay? I don't think it's important for spectators whether an engagement lasts 10-15 seconds or 25-35 seconds. As long as it's easy to identify skill and it's difficult to predict the winner (anything can happen), viewers will find enjoyment in watching the game.
HotS teamfights are a clusterfuck of particles with not nearly enough death proportional to particles. I do not think this is good for players or spectators.
Just for example. The thing is, in LoL, a late game teamfight is "whose ADC gets zoned/dead" because ADCs can 2 shot people late in the game. Early game is dominated by mages and CC. In HotS, CC is lighter, damage is lower, and health pools are higher. That means more protracted battles and more chances to catch the other team out.
Yeh, but why can't you combine longer teambattles with more ability to counterplay? I don't think it's important for spectators whether an engagement lasts 10-15 seconds or 25-35 seconds. As long as it's easy to identify skill and it's difficult to predict the winner (anything can happen), viewers will find enjoyment in watching the game.
well if you can't kill your target in 10-15 seconds you are not going to spend another 20 seconds chasing them all the way back to their towers and risk getting yourself killed right?
plus there seems to be very little snaring/immobilizing/disabling abilities in HOTS so you can literally burst a target down to 1% HP but once he leaps away you have no way of finishing him unless your teammates flank him.
well if you can't kill your target in 10-15 seconds you are not going to spend another 20 seconds chasing them all the way back to their towers and risk getting yourself killed right?
plus there seems to be very little snaring/immobilizing/disabling abilities in HOTS so you can literally burst a target down to 1% HP but once he leaps away you have no way of finishing him unless your teammates flank him.
So when I talk about counter-play, it's not strongly related to the easiness of escaping after an engagement. But rather, that getting away should be related to how well you control your champion. In my opinion there is too much of this type of this dynamic in HOTS: "I need to get away, so I press one button".
What I would like to see more of is this dynamic: "I need to get away and I predict that my enemy will cast his ability in direction X, and therefore I will use my "escape-ability" in direction Y, so I avoid getting hit by him. That's more of what you see in league of Legends where the cast-range of skillshots/abilities are longer than auto-attacks, but movement speed instead is faster so it's still very possible to dodge them with skill. You also see this with Zeratul where you can blink back within 3 seconds, which allows for a very different escape-route. Cloak also has escape-potential, and the ability where you teleport to the enemy you last attacked can in situations be used to escape as well.
Now obviously all heroes shouldn't be like that, as I believe it is important to have some noob-friendly heroes. But the game is just way too much, a-move forward + spam abilities and right click back + spam escape ability. It lacks nuances.
^ thats the same problem i have with this game and i dont think its easily fixed, its the problem with zoom/pov in this game and hero move speed in proportion to skillshot speed/ width, it just doesnt allow for much outplay which is even more escalated by lack of laning phase which limits flashy plays even more
well if you can't kill your target in 10-15 seconds you are not going to spend another 20 seconds chasing them all the way back to their towers and risk getting yourself killed right?
plus there seems to be very little snaring/immobilizing/disabling abilities in HOTS so you can literally burst a target down to 1% HP but once he leaps away you have no way of finishing him unless your teammates flank him.
So when I talk about counter-play, it's not strongly related to the easiness of escaping after an engagement. But rather, that getting away should be related to how well you control your champion. In my opinion there is too much of this type of this dynamic in HOTS: "I need to get away, so I press one button".
What I would like to see more of is this dynamic: "I need to get away and I predict that my enemy will cast his ability in direction X, and therefore I will use my "escape-ability" in direction Y, so I avoid getting hit by him. That's more of what you see in league of Legends where the cast-range of skillshots/abilities are longer than auto-attacks, but movement speed instead is faster so it's still very possible to dodge them with skill. You also see this with Zeratul where you can blink back within 3 seconds, which allows for a very different escape-route. Cloak also has escape-potential, and the ability where you teleport to the enemy you last attacked can in situations be used to escape as well.
Now obviously all heroes shouldn't be like that, as I believe it is important to have some noob-friendly heroes. But the game is just way too much, a-move forward + spam abilities and right click back + spam escape ability. It lacks nuances.
Well predicting skillshots and then turning to other direction in general is just a coinflip. It creates the mindgames to mindgame ur opponent. So I wouldn't consider this as the best way to produce "skillful" encounters. And I gues the emphazize on flashly plays lies more within flashy teamplays. HOTS seems not to be meant to be a one-man show but rather a teameffort. Therefor a flashyplay would be a teammate rotating at the right moment to cut off escape routes, or help escape or use a global/longrange ability to scure the kill or help escape.
Playin a lot of Smite i really appreciate that you dont have those crazy escape mechanisms and long-term disables.
And when i hit a perfect double stun on two enemies while following up with a thunderclap and mini-stun dwarf toss it just feels great in this game.
Well predicting skillshots and then turning to other direction in general is just a coinflip. It creates the mindgames to mindgame ur opponent. So I wouldn't consider this as the best way to produce "skillful" encounters.
Coinflip is a very wrong term here. Coinflip is something that is completley random, but this is something that good players are much better at than bad players. But if every skillshot could be dodged 100% reactively, 50% of the playerbase would dodge skillshots 100% of the time. Zagara's banelings is a great example of a boring skillshot, because you should never get hit by it as you have time to react to it 100% reactively.
But in League of Legends, great players are simply much better at dodging skillshots than bad players. Rather than first moving after the enemy has casted the ability, they rely on the opponents behaviour and their own behaviour in order to estimate where the skillshot most likely will be casted, and based on that information, they make the best move in order to improve their probability of surviving. Below is another clip for reference, and I am pretty sure most guys can't do this.
And these types of plays get highly voted on Reddit all the time. It's simply super exciting to watch as a viewer (and play as well - LOL is extremely popular, no reason not to learn from what they do right), so it's a great way of increasing the skill cap.
And remember that the alternative here isn't another interesting form of control. The only alternative is that you press a button and win/escape safely or that the enemy is stronger than you and therefore wins/you die. So if we look at the Bjergsen-clip, he would die 100% of the time when the enemy hero attacks him as he has less HP. Or if he had a stronger escape-abiity, he would press that button and escape 100% of the time. There would never be any room for uncertainty and for everyone above the intermediate level, skill would be a complete non-factor.
The end-result with adding this mechanic is that you give great players the ability to outperform worse players which is the exact opposite of the luck-element. Moreover, this type of mechanic doesn't have any super high learning barrier. It's not something that only experienced players can take advantage of as the skill required to cast skillshots well and dodge skillshots well go hand in hand. Therefore low level players also have the opportunity to avoid getting hit as their (low-level) opponents are worse at casting the skillshot in the correct place.
To sum up this mechanic is. (a) Fun for casuals/or at least doesn't make the playing experience worse for them, (b) exciting for viewers, and (c) Increases the skill-cap.
Well predicting skillshots and then turning to other direction in general is just a coinflip. It creates the mindgames to mindgame ur opponent. So I wouldn't consider this as the best way to produce "skillful" encounters.
Coinflip is a very wrong term here. Coinflip is something that is completley random, but this is something that good players are much better at than bad players. But if every skillshot could be dodged 100% reactively, 50% of the playerbase would dodge skillshots 100% of the time. Zagara's banelings is a great example of a boring skillshot, because you should never get hit by it as you have time to react to it 100% reactively. But in League of Legends, great players are simply much better at dodging skillshots than bad players. Rather than first moving after the enemy has casted the ability, they rely on the opponents behaviour and their own behaviour in order to estimate where the skillshot most likely will be casted, and based on that information, they make the best move in order to improve their probability of surviving. Below is another clip for reference, and I am pretty sure most guys can't do this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB4KzKBwe8I
And these types of plays get highly voted on Reddit all the time. It's simply super exciting to watch as a viewer (and play as well - LOL is extremely popular, no reason not to learn from what they do right), so it's a great way of increasing the skill cap.
And remember that the alternative here isn't another interesting form of control. The only alternative is that you press a button and win/escape safely or that the enemy is stronger than you and therefore wins/you die. So if we look at the Bjergsen-clip, he would die 100% of the time when the enemy hero attacks him as he has low HP or he would escape if he a stronger escape-mechanic 100% of the time. There would never be any room for uncertainty and skill would be a complete non-factor. Therefore, the prediction-element is actually alot more likely to give great players the ability to outperform worse players which is the exact opposite of the luck-element.
Since I never played LoL, I can't even say if that was something outragoues skillful what he did, for me it looked like normal juking. He got hit several times and evaded some - from what I can see - ground-targeted attacks? Such plays are totally do able in HOTS, don't see your point. You can juke from so many attacks in HOTS aswell. Sure Banelings are easy to dodge, but they are not meant as a skillshot to just catch enemies. It is meant as 100% positiong skillshot, same for galz's AoE stun. In contrast to that you have far harder to dodge skills such as mura's hammer or tyranade's stun. Your point was that you
would like to see more of is this dynamic: "I need to get away and I predict that my enemy will cast his ability in direction X, and therefore I will use my "escape-ability" in direction Y, so I avoid getting hit by him.
Ín response I gave the example of smite where 80-90% of the hereos have escape/chase mechanics because of the nature of the game (not able to attack/see behind you etc.). In HOTS the emphasis on great "dodge"-plays is more team-related. I dunno how often my ass got saved by a tassader doin a last second shield, brightwing portin in at the right moment etcetc. HOTS offers alot more "global"play in terms of rotating faster of having abilities that give you the ability to take a bigger impact on keeping your buddies alive etc.
Prediction dodges are nothin more than what a penaltiy kick for a keeper in soccer is. You can predict based of expirience and enemy-knowledge where you SHOULD escape too. Maybe a coinflip is goin too far but it is still not a 100% predictable outcome ...
edit: and from my HoN and Dota expirience there weren't that many heroes with straight escape abilites, times may have changed by those games never had a big emphasis on escape abilities (sure u have items like blink dagger ...)
Such plays are totally do able in HOTS, don't see your point. You can juke from so many attacks in HOTS aswell.
This is the 5th time I've seen someone say that there are these types of counterplay options HOTS. Every single time I have asked the person to show me a link to a game where this has happened. So far, I haven't got any response yet.
The reason is obviously that for the majority of abilities you cannot juke these abilities by doing anything else than moving back as the movement speed of your hero is too slow relative to the projectile speed of the skillshot and model size of the champion.
League of Legends skillshotting is obviously not 100% predictively, but part of it is, as you need to set your champion up in a good position before you see the skillshot, and then the reaction-capability comes into play.
Prediction dodges are nothin more than what a penaltiy kick for a keeper in soccer is. You can predict based of expirience and enemy-knowledge where you SHOULD escape too. Maybe a coinflip is goin too far but it is still not a 100% predictable outcome ...
But my point was that it is irrelevant to whether this mechanic should exist in the game or not. If we follow on yor analogy, the only alternative is that whenever a defender tacklets an attacker within x meters of the goal, then the attacker gets a guaranteed goal. But if we add in the penalty-element, we give a skilled finisher and a skilled goalkeeper the opportunity to improve their probability of winning if they are skilled. The analogy can also be extended further beyond penalty kick. I believe a big part of dribling in soccer comes down to making certain moves intended to make your opponent make the wrong prediction in terms of what you will do with the football. As the dribling player, you will then predict that the defender will make the misestimation, and then you will apply proper technique to get past the defender.
Whether this mechanic should be implemented or not, comes down to whether casuals find it funny, competitive players enjoy it and whether its exciting to watch. In my opinion, it's especially true for latter, and I think it's true for the majority of competitive and casuals as well.
Such plays are totally do able in HOTS, don't see your point. You can juke from so many attacks in HOTS aswell.
This is the 5th time I've seen someone say that there are these types of counterplay options HOTS. Every single time I have asked the person to show me a link to a game where this has happened? I haven't got any response so far.
The reason is obviously that for the majority of abilities you cannot juke these abilities by doing anything else than moving back as the movement speed of your hero is too slow relative to the projectile speed of the skillshot.
League of Legends skillshotting is obviously not 100% predictively, but part of it is, as you need to set your champion up in a good position before you see the skillshot, and then the reaction-capability comes into play.
Prediction dodges are nothin more than what a penaltiy kick for a keeper in soccer is. You can predict based of expirience and enemy-knowledge where you SHOULD escape too. Maybe a coinflip is goin too far but it is still not a 100% predictable outcome ...
But my point was that it is irrelevant to whether this mechanic should exist in the game or not. If we follow on yor analogy, the only alternative is that we always give the 1 team in socccer the goal. But if we add in penalty, we give a skilled finisher and a skilled goalkeeper the opportunity to improve their probaiblity of winning if they are skilled. Moreover, penalty kicks are pretty exciting to watch.
You do realize that skillshots in HOTS have VERY different speed? I had big troubles to aclimate to the skillshot of muradin after playing a ton stiches, playin zeratul afterwards i missed 50% of his skillshots because it was too fast and I aimed way too predictive. As i wrote in my edit, I don't see a big difference from HOTS to dota/hon in terms of skillshot dodging as many heroes don't have an escape. Your argument seems to be; HOTS needs more escape abilties. Where as I say, the concept from Dota/Hon is fine enough for skillshot dodging. An even more interesting mechanic in HOTS is the mount. Do you mount to chase? Do you mount when you get chased? Can you juke to some place to mount?
For the request of VoDs showcasing skillshot dodges .... maybe it is because there isn't much resource? I played 100+ games HOTS so far and dodged and got dodged a lot. If you can't take that as a valid experience then you need to wait for more HOTS VoD and Highlight showcases will be made.
edit: Your argument for more escape-mechanics seems to be solely based off of LoL as it seems ... you still neglect all my examples of other MOBA games and the fact that even in HOTS several heroes have said escapes.
You do realize that skillshots in HOTS have VERY different speed? I had big troubles to aclimate to the skillshot of muradin after playing a ton stiches, playin zeratul afterwards i missed 50% of his skillshots because it was too fast and I aimed way too predictive.
There can indeed be situations where you miss skillshots in Heroes of the Storm. But if we look at the options from the enemy, there is very little advantage to making any moves intended to make the enemy miss his skillshot. So each time a skillshot has been missed, it's not really due to so some impressive counterplay from the enemy.
The reason is that juking the majority of the time doesn't (noticeably) increase the probability of the enemy missing his skillshot as you can never go very far to the right of left due to the slow movement speed of heroes. In order to actively be able to dodge skillshots or you would need to be a critical range away, but as most skillshots have very low range in Heroes of the Storm, it's almost always preferable to just right click back and not try to make any jukes simultaenously.
Your argument seems to be; HOTS needs more escape abilties. Where as I say, the concept from Dota/Hon is fine enough for skillshot dodging. A even more interesting mechanic in HOTS is the mount. Do you mount to chase? Do you mount when you get chased? Can you juke to some place to mount?
I don't know why you think so. If you back to the top of page 207, you find the following quote from me.
So when I talk about counter-play, it's not strongly related to the easiness of escaping after an engagement.
What I want is to make skill have a big impact during the engagement (not just spamming of abilities) and make skill have a bigger impact in terms of the probability of escaping (not just spamming the escape-ability and rightclicking back).
If your interested in this area, I would actually suggest you try out League of Legends a bit. You may find the overall "model" with last-hitting and slower-pace less exciting, but in terms of champion design and how the abilities interact with other champions, Riot is really really good.
Specifically, in terms of what changes I would like to see from Blizzard to reward more of this counterplay/skill-set are the following: (1) 20% increase in movement speed of all heroes (2) 20% larger map size (so travel distance is unchanged) (3) An increase in the casting range of skillshots/AOE-abilities (this must be made on a case-by-case basis though)
It can absolutely be felt. C9 attributed their 3-0 win in Blizzcon finals to outpicking their opponents. If all heroes were not unlocked, this may not have been possible.
My belief is that it's only a very small factor at anything below the highest levels. At the highest levels, the majority of the players should have played so much anyway that they have managed to unlock most heroes. Thus, the big pay-to-win factor is more of a theoretical issue, but not one that is practically relevant (as long as prices are "fair"). That's at least how I see League of Legends working right now.
Regardless, whether this model works or not doesn't come down to whether you like it or not, but comes down to how other people perceive it. Most people seem to be find with Blizzard going for "paying to unlock heroes", but think the prices may be somewhat too high. Why would they change their model becasue a very very small target group doesn't like it, but they know that they can generate much higher earnings from the remaining 99%?
You do realize that skillshots in HOTS have VERY different speed? I had big troubles to aclimate to the skillshot of muradin after playing a ton stiches, playin zeratul afterwards i missed 50% of his skillshots because it was too fast and I aimed way too predictive.
There can indeed be situations where you miss skillshots in Heroes of the Storm. But if we look at the options from the enemy, there is very little advantage to making any moves intended to make the enemy miss his skillshot. The reason for that is that it (the majority) of the time doens't increase the probability of the enemey missing his skillshot as you can never go very far to the right of left due to the slow movement speed of heroes. In order to actively be able to dodge skillshots or you would need to be a critical range away, but as much skillshots have very low range in Heroes of the Storm, it's almost always preferable to just right click back and not try to make any jukes simultaenously.
Your argument seems to be; HOTS needs more escape abilties. Where as I say, the concept from Dota/Hon is fine enough for skillshot dodging. A even more interesting mechanic in HOTS is the mount. Do you mount to chase? Do you mount when you get chased? Can you juke to some place to mount?
I don't know why you think so. If you back to the top of page 207, you find the following quote from me.
So when I talk about counter-play, it's not strongly related to the easiness of escaping after an engagement.
What I want is to make skill have a big impact during the engagement (not just spamming of abilities) and have skill have a bigger impact in terms of the probability of escaping (not just spamming the escape-ability and rightclicking back).
If your interested in this area, I would actually suggest you try out League of Legends a bit. You may find the overall "model" with last-hitting and slower-pace less exciting, but in terms of champion design and champion vs interaction, Riot is really really good.
So ... you don't think faster hero movement is the key, nor do you think more escapes is the key. What is actually your idea of fixing the problem you have with HOTS? (edit: posted before edit of quoted post )
And again, you are only comparing HOTS skilldodge to LoL skilldodge, why not Dota? Dota is compared to LoL slow-paced in terms of hero movement. Tho Skillshots are pretty quick and CCs can be devastating.
The teameffort is again totally out of scope of your arguments. I feel that positioning before, during and after teamfights is way more rewarded in HOTS than in any other moba I played. Maybe Smite has a comparable positioning-impact. The bigger models for example allow you to make ridicouls bodyblock-plays. That for sure is not achieved by a single individual having incredible movementskills, it is achieved by having a pretty badass coordination during teamfights.
I played 1,5 years HoN, some Dota, some Dota2 and 500+ Smite games. I think I can relate to skilldodge enough to talk about this. I just don't like LoL compared to Dota2 or HoN in about all aspects of the game (opinion, not to be discussed please!) And playing Smite is probably the best game to relate to skillshot dodges.
And again, you are only comparing HOTS skilldodge to LoL skilldodge, why not Dota? Dota is compared to LoL slow-paced in terms of hero movement. Tho Skillshots are pretty quick and CCs can be devastating.
I think it's pretty obvious that the Dota 2-skillset is not where Blizzard wanna go. Most of the complexities that adds depth to Dota increases the learning barrier simulatanously. The League of Legend skillshot interaction is much more of a an easy to learn + difficult to master-concept. Giving that HOTS heroes have highest level of responsiveness + we have short CD abilities + there are actually lots of skillshots in this game --> I believe that Blizzard originally intended to have a similar hero vs hero interaction as we see in League of Legends.
It makes sense for me that Blizzard looked at the moba-industry and thought, what can we do better, where can we innovate? They likely figured that the answer was to get rid of some of the complexities that items add and instead replace it with a simpler talent-system that adds even more customazation. Or let's make "jungling" visually more interesting (mercenaries). Or let's have more objectives to reward teambattles/more action/less farming. And let's have shared XP so noone is useless.
But I don't think there has been any meeting at the development team of Blizzard where they came to the conclusion that the champion vs champion interaction in League of Legends wouldn't be enjoyable for the target group, and that they instead wanted to make the "mechanical skillcap" only related to spamming abilities/right-clicking. But if we compare this to Dota, I think it's actually likely that they intentionally didn't replicate the Dota-interaction as it is more punishing, and thus also more frustrating/less fun for a big part of the target group of Heroes of the Storm.
So ... you don't think faster hero movement is the key, nor do you think more escapes is the key. What is actually your idea of fixing the problem you have with HOTS?
I wanna increase the probability of the enemy hitting with his skillshots when you just right-click back (longer cast-range), but reduce the probability of enemy hitting you if you control your hero well (faster movement speed).
The combination of these changes are not inteded to have a net effect of making escaping easier/more likely, but only to make skill have a larger effect on the probability of succes.
And again, you are only comparing HOTS skilldodge to LoL skilldodge, why not Dota? Dota is compared to LoL slow-paced in terms of hero movement. Tho Skillshots are pretty quick and CCs can be devastating.
I think it's pretty obvious that the Dota 2-skillset is not where Blizzard wanna go. Most of the complexities that adds depth to Dota increases the learning barrier simulatanously. The League of Legend skillshot interaction is much more of a an easy to learn + difficult to master-concept. Giving that HOTS heroes have highest level of responsiveness + we have short CD abilities + there are actually lots of skillshots in this game --> It makes sense that Blizzard originally intended to have a similar hero vs hero interaction as we see in League of Legends.
And i would strongly disagree with that. I don't think Blizzard is looking at any particular scheme of MOBA. Imo you can't even compare the game-concept to the classic MOBAs because of how teamplay/-coordination influences the game at all times in a major way. And yea I know it is a big part in every other teamgame, as it is as teamgame, but the whole concept of HOTS is based on the team as one uninion. People always "complain" that you can't really carry a pubgame, this should show how much big of a different model HOTS is to LoL/dota.
When you talk about skill-differentialpotential in HOTS you only look at single hero actions and seem to forget that HOTS is way more teamoriented. I gave some examples of how big of an impact your teammates can have on your escapes.
For single-chases it seems fine to me that you maybe don't have as much complexity as in LoL for the fact that such situation shouldn't matter as much and can be reduced to "wrong positioning/mapcontrol/outplayed before/lost teamfight" and you still have the chance to dodge if you either have an escape or can sidestep/juke/mount at the right moments. The smaller Mapsize also makes for more "teamskill" since it is easier to react to a chase.
Tho I would agree in "buffing" the movementspeed of hero's slightly, 20% may be too much tho
People always "complain" that you can't really carry a pubgame, this should show how much big of a different model HOTS is to LoL/dota.
That's basically what I have been saying all the time. Add a higher mechanical skillcap to the game, so good players can outplay bad players. But there is a big difference in how you approach the individual skill cap:
Dota = Difficult to learn, difficult to master. LOL = Easy to learn, difficult to master. Heroes = Easy to learn, relatively easy to master (most heroes at least)
And yea I know it is a big part in every other teamgame, as it is as teamgame, but the whole concept of HOTS is based on the team as one uninion.
This is what people say, but I don't believe this approach is supposed to be related to the mechanical skillcap, but only to the fact that we should see more teambattles (less individual laning) + shared XP. Not having room for indiviudal mechanical skill is 100% inconsistent with the reasoning Dustin Browder gave for adding in Lost Vikings. He directly stated that they wanted to have a hero where good players can differentiate their skill.
In all fairness, you likely won't see a video of a great "outplay" from HotS simply because the game is still in alpha, and too young for such things to be widespread.
I generally agree though, HotS doesn't have the potential of Dota or LoL in terms of "big outplays". It's just not how the game is designed. If you want to look for impressive things, focus on displays of teamplay and so forth. It's a different and somewhat less flashy type of display, but watching a team coordinate to a really high degree and execute a fight almost flawlessly is just as satisfying, in my opinion.
I think we're better off just not comparing HotS to Dota or LoL at all. They hardly follow the same mechanics and put very different concepts into focus.
i will echo most of my friends who play this game who also came from other mobas, right now its very little u can do in this game to outplay somebody, a lot of it is just a-move duels which are decided mostly by hero strength with very little room to outplay to change the outcome, yes the team play aspect is important but flashy plays is where its the most fun and adds depth to the game (theres a reason in hots i get bored of every hero 10x times fast than in lol), grouping perfect time at objectives and team play is fun but no near as exciting
In all fairness, you likely won't see a video of a great "outplay" from HotS simply because the game is still in alpha, and too young for such things to be widespread.
Too an extent, it's true, but as someone that isn't good at LOL, I can still make - what I would call - "plays" in LOL. I don't do it consistently well, but it's easy to identify that it is there. In Heroes, I have only got the same feeling with Zeratul.
So I don't expect that we will see much more of this as time goes on and players get better, unless new heroes are added to the game.
People always "complain" that you can't really carry a pubgame, this should show how much big of a different model HOTS is to LoL/dota.
That's basically what I have been saying all the time. Add more mechanical skill to the game, so good players can outplay bad players. But there is a big difference in how you approach the individual skill cap:
Dota = Difficult to learn, difficult to master. LOL = Easy to learn, difficult to master. Heroes = Easy to learn, relatively easy to master (most heroes at least)
And again, it is not a single-hero game. The teamskill-cap seems to be much higher than in other MOBAs you need way mroe coordination and rotation due to the fact that you don't have a real laning phase/building up phase. You don't have the ability to pick up 2 items and then go out and kill heroes of the enemy team with 100% certainty they will die if you catch them.
The only thing which is kinda equal to this is getting a "core"-talent on some heroes and of course level 10 which than is comparable to crucial ult-levels in every other Moba.
So your list may be right for single hero control but in general you simplify a lot of mechanics in HOTS by leaving out the whole teamconcept of the game.
In all fairness, you likely won't see a video of a great "outplay" from HotS simply because the game is still in alpha, and too young for such things to be widespread.
Too an extent, it's true, but as someone that isn't good at LOL, I can still make - what I would call - "plays" in LOL. I don't do it consistently well, but it's easy to identify that it is there. In Heroes, I have only got the same feeling with Zeratul.
So I don't expect that we will see much more of this as time goes on and players get better, unless new heroes are added to the game.
From yesterday out of my head; playing Diablo, Dragon Shrine, fighting over bot shrine. Overpower on enemy locking him in between me and ETC while his teammate can just watch and DPS us. Went on to take shrine and get dragon.
Muradin, made couple of good engagements (and had an awesome team who followed up!) dwarfing tossing in with mini stun, stunning out the squishys, ulting into ministuns while my team just rolls their faces.
There are so many plays to be made... ...with Diablo, Mura and Stiches I also had pretty awesome moments baiting enemies being on low hp, hiding in bushes regging while my team engages to get into fight again and secure some kills.
You just won't see an Antimage blinking in and tearing apart the whole team with rightclicks. You will rather see a perfect Blackhole followed by an Echo Slam into Ravage.
EPT
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