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On November 14 2013 00:02 phyvo wrote:
How much am I "losing out" on if I buy packs with gold rather than continuing my arena runs? Between being steady with arena and quest rewards in my limited playtime my gold just keeps on going up and up (915 now with 3 quests to do and an arena already bought) but it just feels like arena takes forever and IDK if I want to rely on it to get all my cards.
No one talks about opportunity costs when playing Arena. They just see 150g = pack + often more than 50g worth of rewards. But you spend a looong time to draft and play 3-12 arena games, time that gets you exactly 0g compared to the 3.3g/win in constructed.
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i think most people play Arena because they like it more. If i had enough gold, I'd play only Arena, and I guess so would many others
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On November 13 2013 06:22 Sandster wrote:
Selective memory?
In all honesty, Mind Vision is a bad constructed card. Your constructed deck should be finely tuned, and focused on a strategy. Grabbing a random card from a random deck that probably has nothing to do with your deck, with a small chance of getting a real winner, is a poor card slot. Even worse is that it's a HORRIBLE top deck when both players are playing all their cards.
Yes, there are times where you get something really cool out of a Mind Vision. But there will be lots of times where you mind vision a Coin or a random 3/2 he held in hand, and then you ask yourself "Was I not better off just putting a strong, consistent card here in the first place??" For example, if you copy a strong 4-6 mana card, then in a properly built deck you should be getting your own 4-6 mana cards when you can cast them anyway.
Mind Vision and Thoughtsteal are way better in arena because 1) your deck is a hodgepodge of cards anyway, so grabbing strong cards from your opponent improves your hand, 2) the two cards you passed for Mind Vision / Thoughtsteal were probably bad, or you wouldn't have picked these cards, 3) you get valuable information on which cards your opponent has, while he has no idea what new options you just picked up for yourself.
I half agree to the fact that mind vision is a bad draw when top decking.
Half agree because your opponent has to be top decking too to make it bad.
However the fact that you FIND OUT one of your opponent cards is invaluable.
Playing it on turn 1 is awesome. 1 mana for knowing one of your opponent starting hand is priceless.
In case you drawing dry its a high possibility that your opponent is providing you with the means of a decent start.
1 mana means you can play that 1 odd mana remaining when you have a decently full hand.
when played beyond turn 7-9 and both players are kinda top-decking with 2-3 cards in hand is a HIGH chance you get a top card like mind control, pyro blast, or a legendary he's been holding back.
When your opponent has zero cards in hand and no creature on deck and he does not play the card that he just drew,
Thats the moment you have been waiting for. That card is either a good removal tool, or a high mana cost card.
If you are ever in the position of in desperate need of top-decking than your deck is the problem not the card.
This card has it's place in a drawn out control deck where you draw more cards than your opponent.
The situations where Mind vision is not that great, only half good is when you play it against murloc and hunter UTH decks.
And it's only half good because you have half the chance of getting a creature without synergies.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Does Mind Vision still copy coin?
its pretty bad when that happens.
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On November 14 2013 00:09 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 00:02 phyvo wrote:
How much am I "losing out" on if I buy packs with gold rather than continuing my arena runs? Between being steady with arena and quest rewards in my limited playtime my gold just keeps on going up and up (915 now with 3 quests to do and an arena already bought) but it just feels like arena takes forever and IDK if I want to rely on it to get all my cards. No one talks about opportunity costs when playing Arena. They just see 150g = pack + often more than 50g worth of rewards. But you spend a looong time to draft and play 3-12 arena games, time that gets you exactly 0g compared to the 3.3g/win in constructed.
You aren't "losing out" at all. I have been buying packs here and there lately. I only have time for an arena every 2 or 3 days so I always have plenty of gold. Was up to around 1.2k earlier so I bought a few packs.
I guess if you go 3-3 or worse every arena you might run out of money. But even an occasional decent placing combined with quests seems like enough to me.
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On November 14 2013 00:53 Kipsate wrote:
Does Mind Vision still copy coin?
its pretty bad when that happens.
it does still copy coin, yes. i saw that happening on ek0p's stream twice in a row yesterday and he was sooooo mad 
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The coin won me a game one, MC on turn7 was the key :D
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On November 14 2013 00:53 Kipsate wrote:
Does Mind Vision still copy coin?
its pretty bad when that happens.
Yes.
Like I said, Mind Vision is great in Arena because you find out what they hold, and your deck isn't tightly tuned.
But in constructed, you shouldn't fill 2 card slots for a chance at getting a good card, when you could have just put 2 good cards in that slot to begin with. Need low mana minions? Mid-high range minions? Removal? Card draw? Put those in your deck, instead of wasting the slot on a VERY situational card.
If you're waiting until turn 5-7 to cast Mind Vision and hope for a good card, then shouldn't be including a 5-7drop that can impact the game the way you want?
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On November 14 2013 01:08 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 00:09 Sandster wrote:On November 14 2013 00:02 phyvo wrote:
How much am I "losing out" on if I buy packs with gold rather than continuing my arena runs? Between being steady with arena and quest rewards in my limited playtime my gold just keeps on going up and up (915 now with 3 quests to do and an arena already bought) but it just feels like arena takes forever and IDK if I want to rely on it to get all my cards. No one talks about opportunity costs when playing Arena. They just see 150g = pack + often more than 50g worth of rewards. But you spend a looong time to draft and play 3-12 arena games, time that gets you exactly 0g compared to the 3.3g/win in constructed. You aren't "losing out" at all. I have been buying packs here and there lately. I only have time for an arena every 2 or 3 days so I always have plenty of gold. Was up to around 1.2k earlier so I bought a few packs. I guess if you go 3-3 or worse every arena you might run out of money. But even an occasional decent placing combined with quests seems like enough to me.
I'm just saying that everyone says arena is a strictly better use of gold (assuming you are indifferent between constructed and arena), when it's not true.
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Caldeum1976 Posts
I used a mind vision last night and it gave me a spellbreaker, so not only did that tell me that he had a silence available, which is very important to my next play, but it also gave me a silence. Not always reliable but sometimes that card helps so much.
I definitely agree with what was said earlier about late game use though: stealing that card that your opponent is saving as a counter or finisher can turn the tides fast.
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On November 14 2013 01:26 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 01:08 Jonoman92 wrote:On November 14 2013 00:09 Sandster wrote:On November 14 2013 00:02 phyvo wrote:
How much am I "losing out" on if I buy packs with gold rather than continuing my arena runs? Between being steady with arena and quest rewards in my limited playtime my gold just keeps on going up and up (915 now with 3 quests to do and an arena already bought) but it just feels like arena takes forever and IDK if I want to rely on it to get all my cards. No one talks about opportunity costs when playing Arena. They just see 150g = pack + often more than 50g worth of rewards. But you spend a looong time to draft and play 3-12 arena games, time that gets you exactly 0g compared to the 3.3g/win in constructed. You aren't "losing out" at all. I have been buying packs here and there lately. I only have time for an arena every 2 or 3 days so I always have plenty of gold. Was up to around 1.2k earlier so I bought a few packs. I guess if you go 3-3 or worse every arena you might run out of money. But even an occasional decent placing combined with quests seems like enough to me. I'm just saying that everyone says arena is a strictly better use of gold (assuming you are indifferent between constructed and arena), when it's not true.
Oh yeah, I actually didn't mean to quote your post, just the one inside it. I agree with you.
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On November 14 2013 01:42 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 01:26 Sandster wrote:On November 14 2013 01:08 Jonoman92 wrote:On November 14 2013 00:09 Sandster wrote:On November 14 2013 00:02 phyvo wrote:
How much am I "losing out" on if I buy packs with gold rather than continuing my arena runs? Between being steady with arena and quest rewards in my limited playtime my gold just keeps on going up and up (915 now with 3 quests to do and an arena already bought) but it just feels like arena takes forever and IDK if I want to rely on it to get all my cards. No one talks about opportunity costs when playing Arena. They just see 150g = pack + often more than 50g worth of rewards. But you spend a looong time to draft and play 3-12 arena games, time that gets you exactly 0g compared to the 3.3g/win in constructed. You aren't "losing out" at all. I have been buying packs here and there lately. I only have time for an arena every 2 or 3 days so I always have plenty of gold. Was up to around 1.2k earlier so I bought a few packs. I guess if you go 3-3 or worse every arena you might run out of money. But even an occasional decent placing combined with quests seems like enough to me. I'm just saying that everyone says arena is a strictly better use of gold (assuming you are indifferent between constructed and arena), when it's not true. Oh yeah, I actually didn't mean to quote your post, just the one inside it. I agree with you.
If you do well enough then actually arena is definitely strictly better. Averaging 7 wins means that your arena run nets you at LEAST 100g of value (you lose 0 gold and get 1 pack, valued at 100g). Getting 100g of value in constructed requires 30 wins, so at the absolute best case scenario for constructed, it requires 3 times as many games played. Hows that for opportunity cost?
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Well, the point that phyvo and myself were making is that if you are an amazing individual (such as myself) who always have extra gold lying around may as well buy some packs if you can always afford an arena entry when you feel like it because the limiting factor is time to play arena, not gold to enter it. Of course, perhaps gold will have an alternative use in the future, but currently it's only for packs or arena entry.
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Anyone having a suggestion on what I should do with my silenced totems? Enemies often save their silences just for my Manatide or Flametongue and then they simply stand there being useless for the rest of the game. I also can't sacrifice them for anything, since they have 0 attack. Would be nice to hear some suggestions.
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Panda them back to your hand or find a way to get them buffed so they have an attack.
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On November 14 2013 02:23 Jonoman92 wrote:
Well, the point that phyvo and myself were making is that if you are an amazing individual (such as myself) who always have extra gold lying around may as well buy some packs if you can always afford an arena entry when you feel like it because the limiting factor is time to play arena, not gold to enter it. Of course, perhaps gold will have an alternative use in the future, but currently it's only for packs or arena entry.
Oh well of course if your gold gain is positive no matter how much you play then you should spend it on packs. Sorry I guess I misinterpretted the context here.
You know what they really should do though, is higher stakes arena games. Like 300-500 gold a run with better rewards.
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Caldeum1976 Posts
On November 14 2013 02:29 Talron wrote:
Anyone having a suggestion on what I should do with my silenced totems? Enemies often save their silences just for my Manatide or Flametongue and then they simply stand there being useless for the rest of the game. I also can't sacrifice them for anything, since they have 0 attack. Would be nice to hear some suggestions.
If they are silenced with 0 attack there is nothing you can do with them unless you give them some attack boost. Bloodlust, rockbiter, another flametongue, defender of argus, dark iron dwarf, shattered sun cleric, or anything to buff their attack will make them useful. Or do as someone else said above and brewmaster if that is an option. Otherwise they just sit there and look pretty.
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On November 14 2013 00:09 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 00:02 phyvo wrote:
How much am I "losing out" on if I buy packs with gold rather than continuing my arena runs? Between being steady with arena and quest rewards in my limited playtime my gold just keeps on going up and up (915 now with 3 quests to do and an arena already bought) but it just feels like arena takes forever and IDK if I want to rely on it to get all my cards. No one talks about opportunity costs when playing Arena. They just see 150g = pack + often more than 50g worth of rewards. But you spend a looong time to draft and play 3-12 arena games, time that gets you exactly 0g compared to the 3.3g/win in constructed.
You still get 10 gold for every 3 wins in arena just like you do in constructed. Arena games also count toward your daily quests.
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Thanks for the advices randombum and Valiver. I am running a control Shaman deck, without any legendaries tho. I just don't know what I should switch for some of the Pandas, but I'll figure it out somehow.
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Is Arena ranked in any way? Or can a bronze guy get matched up with masters + ?
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EPT
