EPTOn December 24 2008 10:12 mahnini wrote:
shitstorm incoming
shitstorm incoming
Mahnini see the future; people beware.
Beating Kids? - Page 12
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Mahnini see the future; people beware. | ||
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ManBearPig
Belgium207 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:28 Mora wrote: inc has a point. can people start citing some sources as to all these 'studies' going on that 'prove' that spanking (and nothing more severe than that) combined with good parenting (we need to control for other factors), increases the chance that kids will be violent. this is actually pretty interesting stuff to me, particularly because i want to know if i should hit my kids or not. Oh god no what has he done | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:25 ManBearPig wrote: lol So I have to quote his study again, even if it was cited in the SAME THREAD ONLY PAGES AGO? Did you just say there are conflicting studies on spanking without citing any? Because I think you were just attacking EXACTLY THIS? Yeah the authority is irrelevant, but you were saying unqualified people were making claims about 'some studies'. I refuted this. God I hate you I don't need to cite specific counter studies because that isn't the point I am making.. the point I was making is that studies are independent and do not create some kind of truth. Only what they found. You guys can continue to nit pick my bad example of the earth being flat study.. but the point I was making is still there. Studies conflict, studies are done with bias, studies are made in error. Citing "studies have shown" is moronic and terrible. You guys don't seem to want to accept this and defend the incredibly vague notion that it is ok to call upon the universes amazing powers of logic in such a single sweeping statement. Again, you can hate me all you like but in the end it is you who will be banned for being a pretentious uppity faggot. | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
actually my little boy does listen to me.. but the way he shows love to me is by hitting me and he is barely one year old.. and he loves to hit.. so maybe its not a good thing.. I dont even know O_O | ||
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ManBearPig
Belgium207 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:31 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I don't need to cite specific counter studies because that isn't the point I am making.. the point I was making is that studies are independent and do not create some kind of truth. Only what they found. You guys can continue to nit pick my bad example of the earth being flat study.. but the point I was making is still there. Studies conflict, studies are done with bias, studies are made in error. Citing "studies have shown" is moronic and terrible. You guys don't seem to want to accept this and defend the incredibly vague notion that it is ok to call upon the universes amazing powers of logic in such a single sweeping statement. Again, you can hate me all you like but in the end it is you who will be banned for being a pretentious uppity faggot. Lol I actually missed the part where blackstar pointed out you were trolling, but when I read this last post I just laughed at its stupidity I still hate you | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
One can't even propose a theory as to why punishing a child would work in the first place. Let alone with violence. And teaching through reward has been a dead theory for 35 years. I already posted a video of the main guy behind the revolution that followed. You can find his main paper freely on the net. I also linked to 15 videos by several experts on child psychology, education and pedagogy, etc. They probably at least hint at some studies which you can then find. And apparently two links to studies were posted earlier. It's not just some random studies. It's a comprehensive scientific consensus specifiically against corporal punishment. Don't listen to InControl. He's just doing some satire of some rednecks and luring out some anti-americans, stirring up shit. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:31 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Again, you can hate me all you like but in the end it is you who will be banned for being a pretentious uppity faggot. I actually think you're pretty awesome, but I'll take that last point as a GG xD You know more than I do that you can never prove anything 100% but there seems to be enough evidence in this thread to conclude that it's likely spanking is not the best way to raise your child (not the worst either). For those who can't be bothered to look back: | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
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ManBearPig
Belgium207 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:36 Slaughter)BiO wrote: The fact you have ended the last couple of posts with "I hate you" just shows your not even being rational anymore, your just responding with your anger. While Inc is calm and easily drawing you to look more and more foolish. I'm actually having some ice-cream, chilling out, and I'm really bored, so just having a discussion for the sake of discussing seemed appealing to me. Actually I do hate inc, as a poster, and I have hated him for quite some time, it's not due to his trolling here. At any rate, my supposed anger does not make my arguments any less valid. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32027 Posts
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
Spanking children in the US is like creationism. A large part of the general population totally opposes the accepted mainstream scientific consensus. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:43 BlackStar wrote: Yeah but the debate has ended long long ago. At least among educated people. That's something, isn't it? Spanking children in the US is like creationism. A large part of the general population totally opposes the accepted mainstream scientific consensus. DUDE You keep asserting I am some kind of satire or w/e but Hawk/Mora and others are all intelligent enough to get my point while you just kinda truck on through it each time. You (very disrespectfully) assert that all intelligent/educated people know that spanking is bad which makes the assumption that dumb/uneducated people think it is ok? Then you move on to creationism... which is an entirely seperate issue. But while we are on the subject of "studies" Ben Stein did a "study" in a documentary called "Expelled" on creationism in the scientific community. Quite a few very intelligent/educated people don't want to rule out intelligent design/creationism. Are they right? Certainly not (conclusively at least) but the point I have been trying desperately to make is it is OK to have conflicting results in a study. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
The argument he repeated line for line is "Those studies are bullshit. I turned out right." which is clearly fallacious and he knows it. You should too. Those studies don't claim he can't possibly be. So that's a straw man right there. Then, his personal case says nothing about a study. Even if the study says something that's clearly wrong in his individual case, which isn't even true, then still that doesn't mean anything is wrong with that study. Not to mention not all studies are equal. Just because some studies are bad doesn't mean these one are. Just because some studies are misused and seen as the end to all things doesn't mean these are. Just because studies on some subjects are contradictiory doesn't mean these ones are. Not to mention studies have been a very small part of this whole debate. Even the notions behind spanking are grounded in fundamentally flawed beliefs. | ||
micronesia
United States24558 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:50 Eatme wrote: My mom is a teacher and according to her, the kids that get physicaly disciplined (or whatever you want to call it) behave alot wore than kids that dont. I dont really know if this is regional as the stereotype of asians is not of someone misbehaving at school. This is an oversimplification. However, a violent household will definitely yield more violent children, everything else being equal. | ||
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ManBearPig
Belgium207 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:45 Slaughter)BiO wrote: I just find it funny that you seem to be arguing for different things. Inc isnt arguing about what method is best for raising children. He is arguing about the way people are arguing. And he is right when he criticizes those who just use phrases like "studies show" and then don't follow up. People today seem to use scientific studies as some kind of end all to arguments when any real researcher will tell you to watch very carefully what the study exactly was and what the people claimed it said. Its just funny because since he is attacking those statements he is basically indirectly attacking your arguments because the "beating is bad" side is the one who used it so they feel they need to defend their arguments heh. Are you serious? Yeah people who say 'studies have shown..' while this isn't correct are wrong, I don't think you're gonna get any debate here? That being said, studies about the issue of spanking have been cited in this very thread, as well as videos with experts giving an explanation on the subject, on this very page. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 25 2008 06:45 Slaughter)BiO wrote: I just find it funny that you seem to be arguing for different things. Inc isnt arguing about what method is best for raising children. He is arguing about the way people are arguing. And he is right when he criticizes those who just use phrases like "studies show" and then don't follow up. People today seem to use scientific studies as some kind of end all to arguments when any real researcher will tell you to watch very carefully what the study exactly was and what the people claimed it said. Its just funny because since he is attacking those statements he is basically indirectly attacking your arguments because the "beating is bad" side is the one who used it so they feel they need to defend their arguments heh. It is refreshing to see you amongst others get my point 100%. They had me thinking that perhaps I was being confusing or misguided.. but if you got it that means they could/should as well. I am really sensitive to this subject because it was a huge issue in debate. If people were allowed to just cite random surveys, studies or philosophers without actually explaining the tangible connection or allowing for peer access to the literature then you could never argue against them because oh lawd some group of scientists vaguely determined that something is bad for you. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
I thought you were smart. Sorry, my mistake. I stil find it hard to believe. I guess I overestimate the US. | ||
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